That's exactly the issue. If they are selling genuine Apple products, can that reseller make their store look like an Apple store?
It all depends on what's allowed by Chinese law. In the U.S., a store couldn't use Apple's logo and other images like this without Apple's consent.
You have to understand that China is the pirating capital of the world. They just don't have a moral/ethical problem with copying. It's not as high in their list of 'values' is it is in Western Civilization. A friend of mine went to Beijing on business and bought 'North Face' gear from pushcarts on the street. Wanna make any guess on whether the stuff was genuine or not?
Thoughts to ponder:
Why are the ethics and morals in China different than here?
Does the West have a right to impose its values on other cultures?
Where did our (Western) sense of morality come from?
You say: It all depends on what's allowed by Chinese law
Are you are a member of the Chinese communist part? They are the only people who know China has a law: the law of the Party. China also have written official laws, but these laws are only a showcase, the only valid law in China is the law of the Party. We are talking about the most corrupt counter in the world.
Even if they were selling real Apple products, they definitely aren't authorized to do so. So either way, they're in the wrong.
They are in the wrong in North/South America Europe and Africa, but the only thing that matters is whether it is against the law in China. It would come down to whether China supports the same trademark laws as the rest of us and more importantly, whether they are willing to act to support them.
Sorry about the spell in, but an idiot like this realy provokes me!
Hmmm.
Western morality and ethics are fads, they come and go as they please over time or with money. In the most they are held on fear of reprisal. A lot of corporate type morals are based on a lack of being personally responsible or were created through long bouts of bribery and planted officials.
I always find comic the calls of corrupt government being placed on china or Indonesia or pakistan (as examples) because they have a strong culture of bribery and "old boy" networks.
Just because our western governments have codified protection rackets, bribery and made "old boy" networks (lobbying and lunch) into recognised jobs doesn't make them upstanding and right. Of course even though all the corruption and stand over tactics have been made legal our governments still aren't satisfied and individuals seek further bribes, hand shakes and winks regardless.
China has had a much longer time as a constant culture than anything "west", further they have centuries or maybe millennia more experience in governing masive amounts of people.
What makes any westerner so arrogant is a mystery probably mirrored in the upstart teenager with no respect for their elders
Western morality and ethics are fads, they come and go as they please over time or with money. In the most they are held on fear of reprisal. A lot of corporate type morals are based on a lack of being personally responsible or were created through long bouts of bribery and planted officials.
I always find comic the calls of corrupt government being placed on china or Indonesia or pakistan (as examples) because they have a strong culture of bribery and "old boy" networks.
Just because our western governments have codified protection rackets, bribery and made "old boy" networks (lobbying and lunch) into recognised jobs doesn't make them upstanding and right. Of course even though all the corruption and stand over tactics have been made legal our governments still aren't satisfied and individuals seek further bribes, hand shakes and winks regardless.
China has had a much longer time as a constant culture than anything "west", further they have centuries or maybe millennia more experience in governing masive amounts of people.
What makes any westerner so arrogant is a mystery probably mirrored in the upstart teenager with no respect for their elders
You are quite right, we should not in any way insist that the western humanistic tradition has any value! That is stupid! Laws!!? Stupid western talk! Let us rather believe in the strong man!! I am not saying that he may not exist in our culture, but at least we should try to work a better way!
Apple should have an affilate programs with these fake stores. Obviously whoever opens them up care about recreating the look and feel of apple stores. It would be silly to just close them down (especially in china where it may take quite some time for apple to cover the country in stores). Maybe make an agreement where they can display apple logo, but must also clearly state affiliate or something like that to let people know its not 100% apple experience.
I think we have those in US too (affiliates I mean).
Affiliate program? Why? That's absurd. China is one of the leading copyright and trademark abusers in the world, and quite frankly they should vigrously enforce internationally recognized protections or be kicked out of the WTO.
Frankly, their monetary policy (pegging the yuan to roughly 1/7th the value of the dollar) has enabled them to become a well regarded superpower at the expense of other nations.
Affiliate program? Why? That's absurd. China is one of the leading copyright and trademark abusers in the world, and quite frankly they should vigrously enforce internationally recognized protections or be kicked out of the WTO.
Frankly, their monetary policy (pegging the yuan to roughly 1/7th the value of the dollar) has enabled them to become a well regarded superpower at the expense of other nations.
Appreciate to see someone here who see what China is, and they now exactly what they are doing! The crap about relative values is just a smokecreen. Corruption is one of the biggest problems in the world, and China is the most corrupt county around. Written laws in China has no meaning, because the only thing that matters is the current meaning of the Party.
Appreciate to see someone here who see what China is, and they now exactly what they are doing! The crap about relative values is just a smokecreen. Corruption is one of the biggest problems in the world, and China is the most corrupt county around. Written laws in China has no meaning, because the only thing that matters is the current meaning of the Party.
It is written law that the USA has a debt ceiling but that has no meaning, the only thing that matters is the current meaning of the party. Which is to get reelected, as opposed to governing.
Affiliate program? Why? That's absurd. China is one of the leading copyright and trademark abusers in the world, and quite frankly they should vigrously enforce internationally recognized protections or be kicked out of the WTO.
Frankly, their monetary policy (pegging the yuan to roughly 1/7th the value of the dollar) has enabled them to become a well regarded superpower at the expense of other nations.
Their yuan is not pegged to any currency. The yuan has appreciated 25% in the past few years. If the yuan goes up more, that will only mean they can buy more oil and natural resources more cheaply, thereby increasing their competitiveness.
What do you mean by their yuan is 1/7 of the value of the dollar? The Japanese yen is 1/80 the value of the dollar, and so what?
The US is manipulating its currency by printing lots of money, should the US be kicked out of the WTO?
Apple will be OK as long as they have leverage, ie lots of jobs for Chinese workers which they could certainly move to another emerging market country. The Chinese (the country, not the race) seem to be willing to steal whatever intellectual property they are allowed to. In this regard and in corruption, it is a larger offender than most but certainly not unique. I am appalled at the corruption in and disregard for honesty and integrity in my own country (US).
Those of you chastising others for projecting their morality on others, you might want to take that sentiment full circle and apply it to yourself. That argument isn't internally consistent. Also those tying this issue to Mao, maybe should avoid throwing stones with the indians, mexicans, slaves, etc standing behind you. Just leave the issue exactly what it is, and that is using someone else's design work without compensation, and trying to pass yourself off as that entity.
By copying the store design and trying to pass themselves off as Apple, they have acknowledged that both the design and the brand have value. If not, they would design their own store and not identify themselves as Apple. If you believe value should be exchanged for value, then this is wrong. If you believe that the Chinese people are living in poverty and cannot be blamed for such tactics, then maybe you should talk to their goverment about maybe using some of their sweet sweet sovereign reserve money to help their people out instead of stealing from other countries. If China actually compensated the US for all of the intellectual property it has stolen, I have a feeling they would not be left holding any US debt.
I take this to be inspirational that one small blog post -- or news tip -- can create a global media firestorm. Sometimes this is good. I think of many contemporary issues in this light. Getting an "angle" on an issue can create a sound byte that changes the world. Gen Electric paying no taxes ?! Pure gold. Fake Apple store by Chinese fakers? More pure gold. This isn't news; China has been violating every copyright for 15+ years. But it's the presentation that was brilliant. That type of cleverness could have torn the balls off GW Bush's administration in 2003 during the Iraq invasion over nothing. Just mentioning a point of view.
What is the issue then if not decoration, naming, employee clothing?
(I know, in Western legal systems the easiest thing to get them on a hook is the use of the word Apple. And somewhere along the line a reseller broke some agreements with Apple by selling to this 'Apple Stoer'.)
Quote:
How do you NOT get the receipt the instant you purchase your item? Even our Amish grocer gives receipts. They're printed from a cash register hooked to a car battery, for heaven's sake.
That is not exactly like this everywhere in the world. A few years back in Greece I wanted to have a receipt in a restaurant, I was presented with a box of receipts to choose one I liked.
Comments
That's exactly the issue. If they are selling genuine Apple products, can that reseller make their store look like an Apple store?
It all depends on what's allowed by Chinese law. In the U.S., a store couldn't use Apple's logo and other images like this without Apple's consent.
You have to understand that China is the pirating capital of the world. They just don't have a moral/ethical problem with copying. It's not as high in their list of 'values' is it is in Western Civilization. A friend of mine went to Beijing on business and bought 'North Face' gear from pushcarts on the street. Wanna make any guess on whether the stuff was genuine or not?
Thoughts to ponder:
Why are the ethics and morals in China different than here?
Does the West have a right to impose its values on other cultures?
Where did our (Western) sense of morality come from?
You say: It all depends on what's allowed by Chinese law
Are you are a member of the Chinese communist part? They are the only people who know China has a law: the law of the Party. China also have written official laws, but these laws are only a showcase, the only valid law in China is the law of the Party. We are talking about the most corrupt counter in the world.
Even if they were selling real Apple products, they definitely aren't authorized to do so. So either way, they're in the wrong.
They are in the wrong in North/South America Europe and Africa, but the only thing that matters is whether it is against the law in China. It would come down to whether China supports the same trademark laws as the rest of us and more importantly, whether they are willing to act to support them.
Sorry about the spell in, but an idiot like this realy provokes me!
Hmmm.
Western morality and ethics are fads, they come and go as they please over time or with money. In the most they are held on fear of reprisal. A lot of corporate type morals are based on a lack of being personally responsible or were created through long bouts of bribery and planted officials.
I always find comic the calls of corrupt government being placed on china or Indonesia or pakistan (as examples) because they have a strong culture of bribery and "old boy" networks.
Just because our western governments have codified protection rackets, bribery and made "old boy" networks (lobbying and lunch) into recognised jobs doesn't make them upstanding and right. Of course even though all the corruption and stand over tactics have been made legal our governments still aren't satisfied and individuals seek further bribes, hand shakes and winks regardless.
China has had a much longer time as a constant culture than anything "west", further they have centuries or maybe millennia more experience in governing masive amounts of people.
What makes any westerner so arrogant is a mystery probably mirrored in the upstart teenager with no respect for their elders
Hmmm.
Western morality and ethics are fads, they come and go as they please over time or with money. In the most they are held on fear of reprisal. A lot of corporate type morals are based on a lack of being personally responsible or were created through long bouts of bribery and planted officials.
I always find comic the calls of corrupt government being placed on china or Indonesia or pakistan (as examples) because they have a strong culture of bribery and "old boy" networks.
Just because our western governments have codified protection rackets, bribery and made "old boy" networks (lobbying and lunch) into recognised jobs doesn't make them upstanding and right. Of course even though all the corruption and stand over tactics have been made legal our governments still aren't satisfied and individuals seek further bribes, hand shakes and winks regardless.
China has had a much longer time as a constant culture than anything "west", further they have centuries or maybe millennia more experience in governing masive amounts of people.
What makes any westerner so arrogant is a mystery probably mirrored in the upstart teenager with no respect for their elders
You are quite right, we should not in any way insist that the western humanistic tradition has any value! That is stupid! Laws!!? Stupid western talk! Let us rather believe in the strong man!! I am not saying that he may not exist in our culture, but at least we should try to work a better way!
Apple should have an affilate programs with these fake stores. Obviously whoever opens them up care about recreating the look and feel of apple stores. It would be silly to just close them down (especially in china where it may take quite some time for apple to cover the country in stores). Maybe make an agreement where they can display apple logo, but must also clearly state affiliate or something like that to let people know its not 100% apple experience.
I think we have those in US too (affiliates I mean).
Affiliate program? Why? That's absurd. China is one of the leading copyright and trademark abusers in the world, and quite frankly they should vigrously enforce internationally recognized protections or be kicked out of the WTO.
Frankly, their monetary policy (pegging the yuan to roughly 1/7th the value of the dollar) has enabled them to become a well regarded superpower at the expense of other nations.
Affiliate program? Why? That's absurd. China is one of the leading copyright and trademark abusers in the world, and quite frankly they should vigrously enforce internationally recognized protections or be kicked out of the WTO.
Frankly, their monetary policy (pegging the yuan to roughly 1/7th the value of the dollar) has enabled them to become a well regarded superpower at the expense of other nations.
Appreciate to see someone here who see what China is, and they now exactly what they are doing! The crap about relative values is just a smokecreen. Corruption is one of the biggest problems in the world, and China is the most corrupt county around. Written laws in China has no meaning, because the only thing that matters is the current meaning of the Party.
Chinese clients know apple products as well as we do ,
some bot frIends may have bought anyway to fool there girl friends
but i truly believe the ones who did buy were fooled badly
i feel very bad for them
and these knock off artists should go down to google and work there or face real jail time .
DON'T GET m e STARTED ./.
9
racists come out of the of every f,,ig corner tonight ,.
Chinese clients know apple products as well as we do ,
some bot frIends may have bought anyway to fool there girl friends
but i truly believe the ones who did buy were fooled badly
i feel very bad for them
and these knock off artists should go down to google and work there or face real jail time .
DON'T GET m e STARTED ./.
9
Wont start you, but I believe the problem is somewhat more structural than that!
Wont start you, but I believe the problem is somewhat more structural than that!
sorry for rant
they made 30 fully stocked JVC stores a few years ago with all real JVC stuff ,
Oddly JVC does not have any stores .
some one needs jail time
9
Appreciate to see someone here who see what China is, and they now exactly what they are doing! The crap about relative values is just a smokecreen. Corruption is one of the biggest problems in the world, and China is the most corrupt county around. Written laws in China has no meaning, because the only thing that matters is the current meaning of the Party.
It is written law that the USA has a debt ceiling but that has no meaning, the only thing that matters is the current meaning of the party. Which is to get reelected, as opposed to governing.
LOL
Even if they were selling real Apple products, they definitely aren't authorized to do so. So either way, they're in the wrong.
There is nothing that prevents you from reselling Apple products on eBay. Lots of Apple stuff for sale on eBay right now.
This store is on a larger scale, but the same concept.
Where did our (Western) sense of morality come from?
The US itself was formed on faked morals.
Affiliate program? Why? That's absurd. China is one of the leading copyright and trademark abusers in the world, and quite frankly they should vigrously enforce internationally recognized protections or be kicked out of the WTO.
Frankly, their monetary policy (pegging the yuan to roughly 1/7th the value of the dollar) has enabled them to become a well regarded superpower at the expense of other nations.
Their yuan is not pegged to any currency. The yuan has appreciated 25% in the past few years. If the yuan goes up more, that will only mean they can buy more oil and natural resources more cheaply, thereby increasing their competitiveness.
What do you mean by their yuan is 1/7 of the value of the dollar? The Japanese yen is 1/80 the value of the dollar, and so what?
The US is manipulating its currency by printing lots of money, should the US be kicked out of the WTO?
IP law has been around in some form or the other in the West at least since the 13th century.
Has it occurred to anyone here to pay the Chinese royalties for gunpowder, paper, and ceramics?
They still haven't gotten over that, huh?
Those of you chastising others for projecting their morality on others, you might want to take that sentiment full circle and apply it to yourself. That argument isn't internally consistent. Also those tying this issue to Mao, maybe should avoid throwing stones with the indians, mexicans, slaves, etc standing behind you. Just leave the issue exactly what it is, and that is using someone else's design work without compensation, and trying to pass yourself off as that entity.
By copying the store design and trying to pass themselves off as Apple, they have acknowledged that both the design and the brand have value. If not, they would design their own store and not identify themselves as Apple. If you believe value should be exchanged for value, then this is wrong. If you believe that the Chinese people are living in poverty and cannot be blamed for such tactics, then maybe you should talk to their goverment about maybe using some of their sweet sweet sovereign reserve money to help their people out instead of stealing from other countries. If China actually compensated the US for all of the intellectual property it has stolen, I have a feeling they would not be left holding any US debt.
Implying that's the issue here.
What is the issue then if not decoration, naming, employee clothing?
(I know, in Western legal systems the easiest thing to get them on a hook is the use of the word Apple. And somewhere along the line a reseller broke some agreements with Apple by selling to this 'Apple Stoer'.)
How do you NOT get the receipt the instant you purchase your item? Even our Amish grocer gives receipts. They're printed from a cash register hooked to a car battery, for heaven's sake.
That is not exactly like this everywhere in the world. A few years back in Greece I wanted to have a receipt in a restaurant, I was presented with a box of receipts to choose one I liked.