Here at Apple Insider, appreciation for any product that competes w/ Apples' is best left at the door. 98% of the folks here are unable to think or speak without a massive bias. It is like Apple evangelist training camp.
We also like people to back up their assertions here.
I am not suggesting you are wrong, but would you care to post links for HTC's and Samsung's segment data that speak to their profit from phones? And, while you're at it, hard data (not some consulting firm nonsense) on actual quantities of smartphones sold? Thanks.
We also like people to back up their assertions here.
I am not suggesting you are wrong, but would you care to post links for HTC's and Samsung's segment data that speak to their profit from phones? And, while you're at it, hard data (not some consulting firm nonsense) on actual quantities of smartphones sold? Thanks.
There is no perfectly hard data on the number of Samsung smartphone's sold but Horace Dediu explains his calculations in the comments section of
You can adjust his asumptions as you like to find the possible range, but basically we know the numbers for the previous quarter and we know roughly how the percentages shifted so we have a good estimate.
The segment data on revenues and operating profit is in the samsung presentation - the telecom sector does include some non-handset revenue, but it's pretty constant and too small to account for the doubling in operating profit.
As for HTC, iirc they are essentially a pure smartphone shop. They're not splitting out tablets, but that's because even they admit that they're currently not material.
Here at Apple Insider, appreciation for any product that competes w/ Apples' is best left at the door. 98% of the folks here are unable to think or speak without a massive bias. It is like Apple evangelist training camp.
You must be new to the Internet.
If you go to an Android centric website, the treatment is no different. Go post on XDA about iOS or the iPhone, and you'll inevitably get the same treatment.
This. Ask a Google lover why Android is better and they'll spit out a bunch of things about iPhone (very little about Android itself) that for the vast vast vast majority of users will never be an issue. Ask an iPhone user why they think their platform is better and there will be nothing specific, as it's the entire experience, the OS as a whole. Why a platform is good is almost entirely subjective, though certainly where a platform falters is objective. The cited "faults" with iPhone are always subjective, based on principles, or are specific to a single user's case (in which case it's fine that they don't use it). I find it shines a bright light on the "war", that those that are neutral or on the iOS side tend to be reasonable, while the "Phandroids" can only spew dribble.
I love both Android and iOS. Heck I'm most likely going to buy iP5 come October, but I'm gonna list some advantages that Android has over iOS, and a lot of these issues are from a personal standpoint. Note that most of the issues are software related. Please don't flame me. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. One has to note that iP4 is over a year old, which is old as heck in the fast paced mobile industry.
- Android supports LED notification integration (rumors that iOS5 will support this, with possibly the iP5 to have its own LED light as well? crosses fingers and hopes)
- As of now, Android without a doubt has a superior notification system fully baked into the OS. This is by far Android's greatest strength. Curious as to how iOS5 will be received once the general public gets their hands on iOS5's notification implementation.
- *Some* Android phones support replaceable batteries, as well replacing it with an extended battery. This is a bonus.
- Replaceable SD card (for most Android phones)
- Scrollable widget support (awesome feature. I love the fact that I can see my twitter feeds on my homescreen without having to manually open an application for it)
- Google's native Navigation/Map application (I really hope Apple blows everyone out of the water when they come out with their own native nav application, but in my eyes, those 3rd party navigation apps on iOS are rahter mediocre, although I do want to try out CoPilot, which was just released on the AppStore)
- Ability to undervolt/underclock or overclock on Android phones (for most Android phones. A great feature that can be utilized by power users)
- Fully integrated voice search/actions throughout the OS. This is my favorite feature, and I use it on a daily basis, and its accurate. I always say 'call so and so' or, 'set alarm for 8 am' or 'map of gas stations.' Voice dictation is extremely accurate as well.
- Two app stores coexisting on Android, Android Marketplace and Amazon App Store. I love the fact that Amazon App Store gives out premium apps for free everyday, such as Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, etc.
- Of course, theres tons of issues with Android as well. Face it Android enthusiasts, the iPhone series works a lot better out of the box than an Android phone. If one has to tinker with the phone day in and day out, thats a complete fail.
- Some apps are just much more mature on iOS than Android, without a doubt
- Potential for getting malware on an open source platform like Android is much higher than iOS.
- Fragmentation on Android platform. Its pretty bad. Fortunately Google is working on this issue, with a lot of handset manufacturers and carriers on board.
Theres plenty more pros and cons, but I'll stop here. I'm really looking forward to iPhone 5. The promise of a bigger screen, LED notification light, CMOS sensor from Sony, and notification integration on iOS5 is making the iPhone 5 much more appealing. Add to that the A5 chip sips power, the iPhone5 might be a winner for me. I don't see much coming from Android side, other than the existing SGS II. Maybe the HTC Vigor? But thats replacing the HTC Thunderbolt and HTC is just plain terrible when it comes to battery management on their phones. I dont know if its the SoC, or the radio kernel they're using, but its just terrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
We also like people to back up their assertions here.
I am not suggesting you are wrong, but would you care to post links for HTC's and Samsung's segment data that speak to their profit from phones? And, while you're at it, hard data (not some consulting firm nonsense) on actual quantities of smartphones sold? Thanks.
Based on my earlier post, the Reuters article notes that Samsung's Telecom division revenue was 11.2 billion dollars this Quarter compared to last year's revenue of 9.95 billion dollars. How much exactly the phones implicitly made, I do not know, as I do not have the figures. I do recall that Samsung would not release the number of smartphones sold this quarter due to a) ongoing lawsuit with Apple b) their numbers are lower than what investors expected.
As for HTC, I just did quick google search and found this graphic. Revenue was up Q2 to $4.3 billion. Not bad, HTC.
Without a doubt though, in terms of single products, iPhone is still king of handsets, especially with the large profit margins Apple gets with each phone.
The post you can reach by clicking the link to the left
This. Is. Great.
THIS I have absolutely no problem with. This is a well-thought out, beautifully presented argument with points that make sense that can be agreed with or rebutted.
But that other post... the one I quoted and made fun of earlier?
That was trolling. I referenced the post count there because the rest of his posts were trollish as well, leading me to believe he's just a recently-joined nonsensemonger.
But your post count? Your ratio of posts to coherency just proves that you're going to be a well-received member here.
Here at Apple Insider, appreciation for any product that competes w/ Apples' is best left at the door. 98% of the folks here are unable to think or speak without a massive bias. It is like Apple evangelist training camp.
Your comment reminds me of all the folks that post similar comments on CNNMoney's tech page complaining there is too much about Apple and it's too pro Apple. They never seem to notice they are in a sub section titled 'Apple 2.0'.
HTC is just plain terrible when it comes to battery management on their phones. I dont know if its the SoC, or the radio kernel they're using, but its just terrible.
I think there are battery life issues with Android in general. For starters batteries tend to be smaller, especially when they're replaceable. This is because of space requirements for the compartment. Then you have 4G, which is a total battery hog right now. Even on a 3G device you have things like the HTC Sense interface that is wasting power doing silly animations, and I imagine that those widgets result in a significant CPU draw too, depending on implementation.
I'm pretty much assuming at this point that the reason iPhone doesn't have widgets is because of battery life, after all OS-X has had a widget page for years - it's not like Apple don't know about them. They made a conscious choice not to support them yet.
Quote:
Based on my earlier post, the Reuters article notes that Samsung's Telecom division revenue was 11.2 billion dollars this Quarter compared to last year's revenue of 9.95 billion dollars. How much exactly the phones implicitly made, I do not know, as I do not have the figures.
Erm, well using their KRW figures they went from 8.5 trillion won to 12.2 trillion won in telcom, of which 8 trillion and 11.7 trillion respectively were mobile devices. Page 2 of the presentation I linked earlier.
Based on my earlier post, the Reuters article notes that Samsung's Telecom division revenue was 11.2 billion dollars this Quarter compared to last year's revenue of 9.95 billion dollars. How much exactly the phones implicitly made, I do not know, as I do not have the figures.
Your earlier post (#15) - which a lot of people reacted to - said "Both HTC and Samsung are reporting record profits."
According to the link that you yourself have provided above, in the case of Samsung, their operating profit from the telecom segment is down 25% (and net income down 18%). So it cannot be a record. That was an overstatement on your part. Not a big deal, but just pointing out that the assertion was incorrect.
I have not checked HTC's site to know what they are reporting as profits and whether that is a 'record.' I'd venture a guess that it's not.
Add: I retract what I said - you're right that Samsung (likely) made record profits in its telecom segment. (The decline were in consolidated numbers). I went to Samsung's website and looked up their segment info. It shows a telecom segment operating income of 1.433T won (≈$1.3B) in the most recent quarter, compared to 1.096T (≈$1.0B) won in the same quarter of 2010. Although substantially smaller than Apple's iPhone profit, that's quite possibly a record.
Your earlier post (#15) - which a lot of people reacted to - said "Both HTC and Samsung are reporting record profits."
According to the link that you yourself have provided above, in the case of Samsung, their operating profit from the telecom segment is down 25% (and net income down 18%). So it cannot be a record. That was an overstatement on your part. Not a big deal, but just pointing out that the assertion was incorrect.
I have not checked HTC's site to know what they are reporting as profits and whether that is a 'record.' I'd venture a guess that it's not.
Based on the graph provided, theres no doubt that HTC is having record profits. This isn't something thats debatable lol. Its a fact.
As for Samsung, your statement is just not factual. Their net income, including all their businesses, like display, memory, included, have resulted in a net loss. We agree on this right? However, per verbatim on the Bloomberg report, "Earnings at Samsung’s telecommunication unit more than doubled in the quarter because of demand for Galaxy smartphones, which compete with Apple Inc. (AAPL)’s iPhone.
If one reads carefully, the 25% figure you provided is based off their Display division. That statistics has nothing to do with Samsung's Telecom division. They're almost entirely separate entities.
Samsung as a whole reported a net loss, but if you take into account just their telecom division, it made record profits for the quarter compared to last year, or even last quarter for that matter.
I'm just trying to set the record straight. Thats all.
I am seeing a lot of arguments about profits of the world companies in there is a reason why samsung fails to bring in the profit apple does. The big difference between the two companies is actually cultural. Due to the fact apple is an American company they place stock holders first. While a Korean or japanese company places employees as priority. This is why samsung operates in Korea, employing Koreans rather then going next door to china and doing the labor for a fraction of the price. They don't make as much but their employees are happier.
The other poster was referring to iOS 5 which compared to the state android has been for the last few years added no new innovation intact it seemed it was mainly stuff that should have been in the os from day one.
Recall Google bought Android as an already functioning cell phone platform circa July 2005, no doubt in an effort to get a jump on the new development effort Schmidt was hearing about as a member of Apple's board.
iOS multitasking is more appropriate for current smartphones and certainly more appropriate for a fixed-battery smartphone than Android's method.
iOS copy/paste is more elegant.
Android development seems scatterbrained and smacks of desperation, like a reckless driver running down pedestrians in its haste to get from A to B to C. Meanwhile, Apple is careful to get its ducks in a row, cares about IP rights, and forges methodically ahead.
Hey Google remember me? Droid 1 bought on DAY 1? Still running your P.O.S. android 2 system that you forgot all about. Now that my two year contract has just ended, I am truly excited that the iPhone 5 is coming soon. I can't wait to dump two droid 1 phones for the iPhone 5 on Verizon. I have suffered with your crap operating system long enough. BYE BYE Droid........
Comments
Here at Apple Insider, appreciation for any product that competes w/ Apples' is best left at the door. 98% of the folks here are unable to think or speak without a massive bias. It is like Apple evangelist training camp.
Huh!? Do you have a point?
+1
We also like people to back up their assertions here.
I am not suggesting you are wrong, but would you care to post links for HTC's and Samsung's segment data that speak to their profit from phones? And, while you're at it, hard data (not some consulting firm nonsense) on actual quantities of smartphones sold? Thanks.
Huh!? Do you have a point?
He thinks we're all Apple fanboys who believe that Apple can do no wrong.
We also like people to back up their assertions here.
I am not suggesting you are wrong, but would you care to post links for HTC's and Samsung's segment data that speak to their profit from phones? And, while you're at it, hard data (not some consulting firm nonsense) on actual quantities of smartphones sold? Thanks.
There is no perfectly hard data on the number of Samsung smartphone's sold but Horace Dediu explains his calculations in the comments section of
http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/31/the...n-smartphones/
You can adjust his asumptions as you like to find the possible range, but basically we know the numbers for the previous quarter and we know roughly how the percentages shifted so we have a good estimate.
The segment data on revenues and operating profit is in the samsung presentation - the telecom sector does include some non-handset revenue, but it's pretty constant and too small to account for the doubling in operating profit.
http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsu...erence_eng.pdf
As for HTC, iirc they are essentially a pure smartphone shop. They're not splitting out tablets, but that's because even they admit that they're currently not material.
http://www.mzcan.com/taiwan/2498/eve...s%20Review.pdf
Here at Apple Insider, appreciation for any product that competes w/ Apples' is best left at the door. 98% of the folks here are unable to think or speak without a massive bias. It is like Apple evangelist training camp.
You must be new to the Internet.
If you go to an Android centric website, the treatment is no different. Go post on XDA about iOS or the iPhone, and you'll inevitably get the same treatment.
This. Ask a Google lover why Android is better and they'll spit out a bunch of things about iPhone (very little about Android itself) that for the vast vast vast majority of users will never be an issue. Ask an iPhone user why they think their platform is better and there will be nothing specific, as it's the entire experience, the OS as a whole. Why a platform is good is almost entirely subjective, though certainly where a platform falters is objective. The cited "faults" with iPhone are always subjective, based on principles, or are specific to a single user's case (in which case it's fine that they don't use it). I find it shines a bright light on the "war", that those that are neutral or on the iOS side tend to be reasonable, while the "Phandroids" can only spew dribble.
I love both Android and iOS. Heck I'm most likely going to buy iP5 come October, but I'm gonna list some advantages that Android has over iOS, and a lot of these issues are from a personal standpoint. Note that most of the issues are software related. Please don't flame me. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. One has to note that iP4 is over a year old, which is old as heck in the fast paced mobile industry.
- Android supports LED notification integration (rumors that iOS5 will support this, with possibly the iP5 to have its own LED light as well? crosses fingers and hopes)
- As of now, Android without a doubt has a superior notification system fully baked into the OS. This is by far Android's greatest strength. Curious as to how iOS5 will be received once the general public gets their hands on iOS5's notification implementation.
- *Some* Android phones support replaceable batteries, as well replacing it with an extended battery. This is a bonus.
- Replaceable SD card (for most Android phones)
- Scrollable widget support (awesome feature. I love the fact that I can see my twitter feeds on my homescreen without having to manually open an application for it)
- Google's native Navigation/Map application (I really hope Apple blows everyone out of the water when they come out with their own native nav application, but in my eyes, those 3rd party navigation apps on iOS are rahter mediocre, although I do want to try out CoPilot, which was just released on the AppStore)
- Ability to undervolt/underclock or overclock on Android phones (for most Android phones. A great feature that can be utilized by power users)
- Fully integrated voice search/actions throughout the OS. This is my favorite feature, and I use it on a daily basis, and its accurate. I always say 'call so and so' or, 'set alarm for 8 am' or 'map of gas stations.' Voice dictation is extremely accurate as well.
- Two app stores coexisting on Android, Android Marketplace and Amazon App Store. I love the fact that Amazon App Store gives out premium apps for free everyday, such as Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, etc.
- Of course, theres tons of issues with Android as well. Face it Android enthusiasts, the iPhone series works a lot better out of the box than an Android phone. If one has to tinker with the phone day in and day out, thats a complete fail.
- Some apps are just much more mature on iOS than Android, without a doubt
- Potential for getting malware on an open source platform like Android is much higher than iOS.
- Fragmentation on Android platform. Its pretty bad. Fortunately Google is working on this issue, with a lot of handset manufacturers and carriers on board.
Theres plenty more pros and cons, but I'll stop here. I'm really looking forward to iPhone 5. The promise of a bigger screen, LED notification light, CMOS sensor from Sony, and notification integration on iOS5 is making the iPhone 5 much more appealing. Add to that the A5 chip sips power, the iPhone5 might be a winner for me. I don't see much coming from Android side, other than the existing SGS II. Maybe the HTC Vigor? But thats replacing the HTC Thunderbolt and HTC is just plain terrible when it comes to battery management on their phones. I dont know if its the SoC, or the radio kernel they're using, but its just terrible.
We also like people to back up their assertions here.
I am not suggesting you are wrong, but would you care to post links for HTC's and Samsung's segment data that speak to their profit from phones? And, while you're at it, hard data (not some consulting firm nonsense) on actual quantities of smartphones sold? Thanks.
Based on my earlier post, the Reuters article notes that Samsung's Telecom division revenue was 11.2 billion dollars this Quarter compared to last year's revenue of 9.95 billion dollars. How much exactly the phones implicitly made, I do not know, as I do not have the figures. I do recall that Samsung would not release the number of smartphones sold this quarter due to a) ongoing lawsuit with Apple b) their numbers are lower than what investors expected.
As for HTC, I just did quick google search and found this graphic. Revenue was up Q2 to $4.3 billion. Not bad, HTC.
Without a doubt though, in terms of single products, iPhone is still king of handsets, especially with the large profit margins Apple gets with each phone.
Hey, that's complexionism! We prefer it to be called sebumically gifted,
I think your mixing up androgen and android stimulation!
The post you can reach by clicking the link to the left
This. Is. Great.
THIS I have absolutely no problem with. This is a well-thought out, beautifully presented argument with points that make sense that can be agreed with or rebutted.
But that other post... the one I quoted and made fun of earlier?
That was trolling. I referenced the post count there because the rest of his posts were trollish as well, leading me to believe he's just a recently-joined nonsensemonger.
But your post count? Your ratio of posts to coherency just proves that you're going to be a well-received member here.
Here at Apple Insider, appreciation for any product that competes w/ Apples' is best left at the door. 98% of the folks here are unable to think or speak without a massive bias. It is like Apple evangelist training camp.
Your comment reminds me of all the folks that post similar comments on CNNMoney's tech page complaining there is too much about Apple and it's too pro Apple. They never seem to notice they are in a sub section titled 'Apple 2.0'.
How did i know you were going to say that even before I read it?...
You didn't.
HTC is just plain terrible when it comes to battery management on their phones. I dont know if its the SoC, or the radio kernel they're using, but its just terrible.
I think there are battery life issues with Android in general. For starters batteries tend to be smaller, especially when they're replaceable. This is because of space requirements for the compartment. Then you have 4G, which is a total battery hog right now. Even on a 3G device you have things like the HTC Sense interface that is wasting power doing silly animations, and I imagine that those widgets result in a significant CPU draw too, depending on implementation.
I'm pretty much assuming at this point that the reason iPhone doesn't have widgets is because of battery life, after all OS-X has had a widget page for years - it's not like Apple don't know about them. They made a conscious choice not to support them yet.
Based on my earlier post, the Reuters article notes that Samsung's Telecom division revenue was 11.2 billion dollars this Quarter compared to last year's revenue of 9.95 billion dollars. How much exactly the phones implicitly made, I do not know, as I do not have the figures.
Erm, well using their KRW figures they went from 8.5 trillion won to 12.2 trillion won in telcom, of which 8 trillion and 11.7 trillion respectively were mobile devices. Page 2 of the presentation I linked earlier.
You didn't.
I'm not up to speed with this. Is this stuff about that DED guy again?
Based on my earlier post, the Reuters article notes that Samsung's Telecom division revenue was 11.2 billion dollars this Quarter compared to last year's revenue of 9.95 billion dollars. How much exactly the phones implicitly made, I do not know, as I do not have the figures.
Your earlier post (#15) - which a lot of people reacted to - said "Both HTC and Samsung are reporting record profits."
According to the link that you yourself have provided above, in the case of Samsung, their operating profit from the telecom segment is down 25% (and net income down 18%). So it cannot be a record. That was an overstatement on your part. Not a big deal, but just pointing out that the assertion was incorrect.
I have not checked HTC's site to know what they are reporting as profits and whether that is a 'record.' I'd venture a guess that it's not.
Add: I retract what I said - you're right that Samsung (likely) made record profits in its telecom segment. (The decline were in consolidated numbers). I went to Samsung's website and looked up their segment info. It shows a telecom segment operating income of 1.433T won (≈$1.3B) in the most recent quarter, compared to 1.096T (≈$1.0B) won in the same quarter of 2010. Although substantially smaller than Apple's iPhone profit, that's quite possibly a record.
Your earlier post (#15) - which a lot of people reacted to - said "Both HTC and Samsung are reporting record profits."
According to the link that you yourself have provided above, in the case of Samsung, their operating profit from the telecom segment is down 25% (and net income down 18%). So it cannot be a record. That was an overstatement on your part. Not a big deal, but just pointing out that the assertion was incorrect.
I have not checked HTC's site to know what they are reporting as profits and whether that is a 'record.' I'd venture a guess that it's not.
Based on the graph provided, theres no doubt that HTC is having record profits. This isn't something thats debatable lol. Its a fact.
As for Samsung, your statement is just not factual. Their net income, including all their businesses, like display, memory, included, have resulted in a net loss. We agree on this right? However, per verbatim on the Bloomberg report, "Earnings at Samsung’s telecommunication unit more than doubled in the quarter because of demand for Galaxy smartphones, which compete with Apple Inc. (AAPL)’s iPhone.
If one reads carefully, the 25% figure you provided is based off their Display division. That statistics has nothing to do with Samsung's Telecom division. They're almost entirely separate entities.
Samsung as a whole reported a net loss, but if you take into account just their telecom division, it made record profits for the quarter compared to last year, or even last quarter for that matter.
I'm just trying to set the record straight. Thats all.
edit: ok, we come to agreement. nice.
The other poster was referring to iOS 5 which compared to the state android has been for the last few years added no new innovation intact it seemed it was mainly stuff that should have been in the os from day one.
Recall Google bought Android as an already functioning cell phone platform circa July 2005, no doubt in an effort to get a jump on the new development effort Schmidt was hearing about as a member of Apple's board.
iOS multitasking is more appropriate for current smartphones and certainly more appropriate for a fixed-battery smartphone than Android's method.
iOS copy/paste is more elegant.
Android development seems scatterbrained and smacks of desperation, like a reckless driver running down pedestrians in its haste to get from A to B to C. Meanwhile, Apple is careful to get its ducks in a row, cares about IP rights, and forges methodically ahead.
Google will release that half-baked & buggy crap so that they can counter the iPhone 5.
So no matter if it's Honeycomb or Ice Cream Sandwich - it's always cookie doe!
Oh deer. I guess not everyone has a suite tooth. The Pillsbury Doughboy is rolling over....
Sometimes you frustrate me so much I could tear out my few remaining hairs, but then you go and make it all up with that post