Microsoft again clarifies that Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps

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  • Reply 61 of 135
    Just to throw in my two cents, I never did expect for windows 8 tablets to run native windows apps. And I gotta say is Microsoft made a good move by not doing so. It's a modern tablet, not a PC. Tablets are better off running on ARM processors since they are more power efficient, allowing longer battery life. Hell if it was running on x86, you'll need to be near a wall outlet all day. I am sure Microsoft will still write apps such as office for the metro tablets just like how Apple wrote iWork for iOS. As far as market share, I think it will pick up some traction but don't see it outpacing iOS and Android. I know I will be sticking to the iPad. I'm just glad to see more competition.
  • Reply 62 of 135
    And the same hardware has a battery life of up to 7 hrs (in legacy x86 mode - Windows 7) - (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._tablet_h.html). Not too bad compared to 10 hours of battery life of iPad 2. And with Atom processors/Ultrabook based design, Intel may be able to increase the battery life to match or exceed iPad 2. It is not only Samsung but all current PC manufacturers will offer x86 based Windows 8 tablet (MSI/ASUS are already bringing x86 Windows 7 Tablets like Samsung). So there will be widespread support for legacy x86 apps in Windows 8 tablets.
  • Reply 63 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhillyMJS View Post


    Plus their insistence on hanging the "Windows" name on EVERYTHING will only serve to confuse people further about this.



    They'll have to spend millions in marketing just to tell people they'll have to buy tablet versions of all their software.







    Hahaha. Marketing isn't going to help there - there ARE no tablet versions for all their software and they're more likely to find what they're looking for on an iPad.



    "Everything you hate about Windows without all the apps!" Uh, is that supposed to be Ballmer's line?
  • Reply 64 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post


    And the same hardware has a battery life of up to 7 hrs (in legacy x86 mode - Windows 7) - (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._tablet_h.html). Not too bad compared to 10 hours of battery life of iPad 2. And with Atom processors/Ultrabook based design, Intel may be able to increase the battery life to match or exceed iPad 2. It is not only Samsung but all current PC manufacturers will offer x86 based Windows 8 tablet (MSI/ASUS are already bringing x86 Windows 7 Tablets like Samsung). So there will be widespread support for legacy x86 apps in Windows 8 tablets.



    That's 7 hours on a tablet that's crazy-thick and heavy and has a fan. Not that Intel isn't going to aim to improve things, but it's Apples to oranges right now. (And look, the i5 is a faster chip than the 1GHz ARM, as far as I know, so don't get me wrong, it's just that even in Ultrabook form, it's going to be a quite hefty 'tablet'.



    WinPad vs iPad:

    12.9mm vs. 8.8 (50% thicker)

    900 g vs. 601 g (50% heavier)

    7 hours vs. 10 hours (70% of the battery life, and that's probably very optimistic)



    That of course ignores the other problem - those legacy apps are going to suck for a touch-input scenario, so now you're stylus-ing and/or connecting a keyboard/mouse. Toss in the keyboard... geez, just get a damned laptop already. That's not what makes the iPad so nice to use, though it is the sort of confused response we've all come to expect from Microsoft.
  • Reply 65 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dirty Smuggler View Post


    You just beat me to it. Over 50 posts and no one mentions that the headline is false. Microsoft did not say "Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps". They said "ARM-based Windows 8 tablets won't run Windows apps". x86-based Windows8 Tablets will support them, as was demoed. What is DED's source that there won't be x86 tablets next year?



    This is Appleinsider. We can't let facts get in the way of MS bashing. That would be just wrong.
  • Reply 66 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dirty Smuggler View Post


    You just beat me to it. Over 50 posts and no one mentions that the headline is false. Microsoft did not say "Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps". They said "ARM-based Windows 8 tablets won't run Windows apps". x86-based Windows8 Tablets will support them, as was demoed. What is DED's source that there won't be x86 tablets next year?



    No, Windows 8 'ThickPads' will run legacy apps just beautifully on your shiny new touch-screen. Hey, not sure if you noticed this, but big, heavy tablets where you need a stylus (or keyboard & mouse) haven't exactly set the tablet market on fire in the past either. I'm sure Ballmer has a great sound bite explaining why users now will be eager to shoehorn desktop apps into a form factor that's totally ill-suited for them when Microsoft hasn't been able to convince users they want to suffer like that for the past decade.



    (If you want to start counting from the TabletPC running XP, though there were earlier attempts, so maybe we can argue that nobody has wanted to run Windows that way for over a decade already.)



    The real tablets (lighter, thinner, better battery life, and not dependent on other input devices) won't run legacy Windows apps and won't have as broad a set of apps as hmmm, say, the iPad?



    "dows8 - We took the Win out of Windows!"
  • Reply 67 of 135
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,603member
    I don't understand the confusion here. When Microsoft first showed off windows 8 and also showed it running on ARM it was clearly stated that on the ARM platform it would not run x86 applications. They said that companies would have to port their programs to ARM, they then showed Microsoft office running on ARM in a sort of "look, we got office ported".



    I think it is a case that the windows fans just failed to accept that Microsoft have built 2 different builds of windows 8 and somehow in their tiny minds they thought that the ARM version would run x86 stuff.
  • Reply 68 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    This is Appleinsider. We can't let facts get in the way of MS bashing. That would be just wrong.



    While DED certainly likes to make the headlines a bit slanted, that doesn't mean that questioning Microsofts reasoning is out of order. The tablets that will run Windows will be TabletPCs just like in the past - more cumbersome form factor, not quite a great tablet, not quite a great laptop, and now with a schizophrenic split touch/non-touch interface. "Jack of all trades...", and you can fill in the rest for yourself.



    The one cool tablet concept they had was Courier which Ballmer killed. Strangely nobody thought that was cool because they had a rendered demo running Windows Explorer or promised that you could hook up a keyboard and mouse - more like because that was exactly what they weren't promising, though that point seems to have eluded the powers that be at Microsoft.
  • Reply 69 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emacs72 View Post


    having a story, here, that disparages a potential competitor to Apple products and/or services has two purposes 1) offer people the most ineffective means to bash a corporate entity and 2) give people an outlet to justify their reason(s) for siding with Apple in the tablet market. if those people are truly comfortable in their Apple purchases of choice, it shouldn't matter what Microsoft is doing. alas, there's that lingering fear that a non-Apple company will do good for the consumer.



    1) The only means to bash a corporate entity is to either buy their product or not. (Or have the government hit them with anti-trust violations, but we're on an Apple site, not a Microsoft site, so that bit really isn't relevant here...)



    2) The people here don't need to justify their reason(s) for 'siding' with Apple in the tablet market. Consumers in general have sided pretty heavily with Apple. I guess that's why Microsoft fans are on AI explaining why a news headline on an Apple site is really wrong. Ignore the naysayers who have seen the same products fail before*.



    My lingering fear is that nobody else will come up with anything better than Apple has anytime soon, and that companies will keep releasing half-assed wannabe products instead. Only a true visionary like Ballmer could look at the success of the iPad and conclude that what consumers really want is a tablet running legacy Windows on it. Seriously? WTF?



    If you're not touting TabletPC, then presumably you're more stoked for the big Windows Phone 7 devices, though unlike the iPod touch : iPad analogy, nobody actually wants Windows Phone 7 to begin with, so even a scaled up one isn't likely to be very exciting.



    But hey, these are just the musings of someone who is afraid that if Microsoft releases something fantastic his own electronics will all stop working, so the fear is understandable. And palpable!



    *(TabletPC + Windows Phone 7 = FTWIN8!)
  • Reply 70 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post


    Can these idiots please get this right....



    Apps (short for applications) are the name used to describe the programs run on smartphones, tablets, and other mobile devices.



    SOFTWARE is what is run on a laptop or desktop computer.



    That's strange, because an application is a type of software. And software is run on your smartphone, tablet, and other mobile devices.
  • Reply 71 of 135
    I don't actually get if there is any new news here or if its another misunderstanding of what Microsoft is saying. The only crucial question is "Does ARM have the desktop mode?". We've known from the start apps will need recompiling and for the vast majority of apps that just means changing your compile settings.
  • Reply 72 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    That's strange, because an application is a type of software. And software is run on your smartphone, tablet, and other mobile devices.



    Even stanger in visual studio I've been creating projects with application in the name of the project type even befoe smartphones and tablets existed.
  • Reply 73 of 135
    I've always considered Daniel Dilger to be something of a professional troll, intentionally provocative and willing to stretch the truth to make a good story. Fun to read sometimes but not really informative. However not I'm starting to think he might just be plain old dumb!



    He made an absolute laughing stock of himself here a couple of weeks back when he claimed that Microsoft copied the metro UI from Apple.



    Now he is saying "Microsoft again clarifies that Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps". You would think that the 5000 people at BUILD running Visual Studio 11 on their Windows 8 tablets might have tipped him off that something wasn't quite right with that assertion!
  • Reply 74 of 135
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I've always considered Daniel Dilger to be something of a professional troll, intentionally provocative and willing to stretch the truth to make a good story. Fun to read sometimes but not really informative. However not I'm starting to think he might just be plain old dumb!



    He made an absolute laughing stock of himself here a couple of weeks back when he claimed that Microsoft copied the metro UI from Apple.



    Now he is saying "Microsoft again clarifies that Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps". You would think that the 5000 people at BUILD running Visual Studio 11 on their Windows 8 tablets might have tipped him off that something wasn't quite right with that assertion!



    dummy, that was a FAKE! MS demo'ed an intel Samsung Windows "slate" running a "simulation" of what Windows 8 will look like on ARM tablets - when Windows finally actually can do that someday. which right now, it simply can't. what those 5000 have in their hands now is the Intel version of the Windows 8 alpha. so sure, it can run standard Windows applications, but of course their UI is not updated for the Windows 8 UI changes.



    sure, MS could try to sell Win 8 versions of these Intel slates. but even they have finally realized such heavy, hot, 4 hour battery life hardware is never going to sell (did any of the 5000 pay for it, huh?). you probably will never see one for sale. that's why they are porting Windows to ARM for tablets.



    get a clue.
  • Reply 75 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    It's the web based app thing that has me puzzled. Are they saying this is no apps at all and it's all in the browser or are they saying they are all HTML5/Javascript based.



    There is no "web based app" thing, how about that for puzzling!



    Windows 8 Metro sits in a new Windows environment (WinRT). This environment can be targeted with a few different languages, and one of those languages is HTML/Javascript.



    In a sense this ability to run applications coded in HTML/Javascript isn't really all that different to the "legacy" Windows desktop.



    Thinking of Windows 8 as "web based" is going to lead you down the wrong thought path (so to speak ).
  • Reply 76 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    dummy, that was a FAKE!

    .

    .

    .

    You probably will never see one for sale.



    Was that serious or were you joking?



    If you're serious I'm happy to have a 12 month signature bet with you!



    If we don't see an x86 based tablet running Windows 8 within 12 months of the release of Windows 8 you get to set a line in my signature for 12 months.



    If we do see an x86 based tablet running Windows 8 within 12 months of the release of Windows 8 I get to set a line in your signature for 12 months.
  • Reply 77 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    "A variety of enterprise users are already using legacy Windows apps on the iPad, using Citrix, along with other native iOS apps. Whether Microsoft can convince them to switch to Windows 8 remains to be seen."



    That right there is a just mountain of horse shiii!te. iPad's are not running "legacy windows apps" they are running a citrix client which is nothing more than a RDP or VNC client.



    I have no doubt that Citrix will provide a client for Windows 8 ARM. I have not doubt that any Windows 8 x86 tablet will NOT need a citrix client and will run any app Windows 7 can today. How well it works with touch is a nother matter.



    DED you are the KING of FOAMING at the mouth anti-ms spin. You shame this site with your 5th grader bs.



    It certainly does "remain to be seen" how proposed MS products will or will not turn out in a year. In every case that MS opens its mouth, one thing you can say with confidence: "it remains to be seen".



    The point is, iPads and iPhones are usefully interacting with legacy Windows software TODAY. Millions of users are using their iPads in a Windows or business environment, TODAY.



    It is true that Apple provides better, easier, more efficient, more user-friendly, more elegant connection to Windows services like XChange Server, than MS does itself!



    Why do you think we keep hearing of hundreds of businesses and organizations and institutions buying iPads by the truckload? Is it so they can entertain their employees or students during breaks? They are buying them because they efficiently and usefully tie into their existing systems.



    MS are announcing this "strategy" like it is some inspired revelation they have had to differentiate themselves. They laughed at Apple's considered decision to not put desktop software on the iPad. And now MS find, again, that putting out a decent product takes some effort and design decisions, and yes, "compromise". But they bluster and brush it under the carpet. Oh, and they also drop Flash. Oh, and they don't have copy and paste in first version of Windows Phone 7.



    What else are they going to drop? This is just par for the course with MS. It remains to be seen. A lot of hubris, a lot of hype, a lot of ho-hum when the final product actually ships, if it ships. They do it to themselves. But once in awhile somebody like DED is helpful to cut through all this crap implying that MS saved the world with Windows and they will do it again. Selling snake oil or throwing money at competing projects isn't going to cut it this time.
  • Reply 78 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    dummy, that was a FAKE! MS demo'ed an intel Samsung Windows "slate" running a "simulation" of what Windows 8 will look like on ARM tablets - when Windows finally actually can do that someday. which right now, it simply can't. what those 5000 have in their hands now is the Intel version of the Windows 8 alpha. so sure, it can run standard Windows applications, but of course their UI is not updated for the Windows 8 UI changes.



    sure, MS could try to sell Win 8 versions of these Intel slates. but even they have finally realized such heavy, hot, 4 hour battery life hardware is never going to sell (did any of the 5000 pay for it, huh?). you probably will never see one for sale. that's why they are porting Windows to ARM for tablets.



    get a clue.



    With readers like this, no wonder DED can pass his opinions and assumptions off as fact.



    Running Windows applications on a tablet will be their only point of difference, so don't be surprised to see some hot and heavy hardware on sale, it hasn't stopped them before.

    And that's how they'll clear up the confusion over what can run real Windows. The ads will say "Just look for the fat ones".
  • Reply 79 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post


    ... But once in awhile somebody like DED is helpful to cut through all this crap implying that MS saved the world with Windows and they will do it again.



    The other somebodies don't need to twist the truth to cut through the crap. Doing that kills his arguments. He's just not objective enough.

    But anyway Microsoft is a sideshow now, no need to get worked up over what they say, just laugh and shake your head.
  • Reply 80 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    The first thing people will want to run is some version of Office and Flash. Without these, I don't see how it is a real alternative to iPad or Android tablets.



    If Microsoft wanted to kick ass they could have engaged, I dunno, some of the top engineers in the world working for them to enable some sort of x86 compatibility or some sort of better plan on transitioning x86 apps to ARM. They would have marched into Adobe's offices and said, let's get Flash on Windows8 tablets 100% sorted.



    At the very least they should have come up with a bold plan to make Office for tablets. Why they are not doing this is a mystery. A massive percentage of people buying iPads have "Can I do Office on this?" as one of their first questions. Yes there are apps that do that for iOS and Android but surely it would pale in comparison to Microsoft Office for Windows 8 tablets... right? *Sigh*



    What that tells me is that Ballmer sees it I the same way Jobs does, that the tablet is mostly for consuming content, not creating it and good battery life is paramount.



    It also tells me that M$ is probably scared that they may cannibalize their core market which is desktops if they were to make them fully compatible.. They can't possibly make as much on the tablet by selling the whole office suite for $30, like apple's similar offering.



    Unlike other wannabes they are showing restraint, waiting for others to fall flat and they learn from it.
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