Microsoft again clarifies that Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps

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  • Reply 81 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    1) I guess that's why Microsoft fans are on AI explaining why a news headline on an Apple site is really wrong.



    Sorry to mess with your reality, but I'm an Apple fan, lurking AI since 2005. And it's not just the headline, the whole crux of the story is based on misrepresenting someone's words and a bad assumption.



    All the Apple rumour sites report the same stories, and none of the others have written about this. That's because if you stick to what was said, there's no story.
  • Reply 82 of 135
    Then what would be the point of Windows8 then? I mean really...
  • Reply 83 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post


    MS has already demoed Office 2010 on Windows 8 SoC ARM during CES 2011 in June 2011. By the time Windows 8 is released in 2012, they'll have a fully functional Office suite for ARM. The big question is whether it'll be a desktop app or Metro app. I think it's the former.



    Got a link?



    The only "demo" of MS Office running on ARM -- that I could find is:



    Windows 8: Watch Microsoft?s full ARM tablet demo [video]



    At 22:45-23:45 in, it showed:



    -- A Quad Core ARM Chip

    -- A laptop with a full physical keyboard and touch pad

    -- A document already open on the display with what appeared to be standard Word

    -- The content was already entered



    The "demo" consisted of hitting a key on the physical keyboard and printing the document on a printer -- and saying: this is running full word. Then he exited to the Metro shell.



    That was not really much of a demo.



    Also, I suspect that to most people "Running Office on ARM" means running Office on a touch tablet without a physical kb or stylus. *



    This is important! The UI/UX of Office depends on very precise, granular positioning of a cursor, along with mouseover hints, kb shortcuts, etc. Because of the 16x9 form factor a usable popup keyboard will obliterate most of the document on a useable-size tablet. This will just not work well on a touch screen tablet -- even with a stylus.



    In order provide an acceptable UX on a touch tablet (without a physical kb), MS will have to rework Office apps especially for a touch UI, If they are successful doing this, it will be a different "Office" than the "Real Office" that runs on a non-touch system -- be it ARM or x86.



    * for the last decade, or so, there have been MS tablets running Office using a stylus. These have had minimal acceptance.
  • Reply 84 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    Was that serious or were you joking?



    If you're serious I'm happy to have a 12 month signature bet with you!



    If we don't see an x86 based tablet running Windows 8 within 12 months of the release of Windows 8 you get to set a line in my signature for 12 months.



    If we do see an x86 based tablet running Windows 8 within 12 months of the release of Windows 8 I get to set a line in your signature for 12 months.



    Does it matter?



    How is an x86 based tablet running Windows 8 any different * than the windows tablets of the last decade -- the x86 apps are unusable without a physical kb and mouse/touchpad?



    If you need a physical kb -- why not just buy a laptop?



    * other than the Metro UI and Widget apps
  • Reply 85 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Got a link?



    The only "demo" of MS Office running on ARM -- that I could find is:



    Windows 8: Watch Microsoft?s full ARM tablet demo [video]



    At 22:45-23:45 in, it showed:



    -- A Quad Core ARM Chip

    -- A laptop with a full physical keyboard and touch pad

    -- A document already open on the display with what appeared to be standard Word

    -- The content was already entered



    The "demo" consisted of hitting a key on the physical keyboard and printing the document on a printer -- and saying: this is running full word. Then he exited to the Metro shell.



    That was not really much of a demo.



    Also, I suspect that to most people "Running Office on ARM" means running Office on a touch tablet without a physical kb or stylus. *



    This is important! The UI/UX of Office depends on very precise, granular positioning of a cursor, along with mouseover hints, kb shortcuts, etc. Because of the 16x9 form factor a usable popup keyboard will obliterate most of the document on a useable-size tablet. This will just not work well on a touch screen tablet -- even with a stylus.



    In order provide an acceptable UX on a touch tablet (without a physical kb), MS will have to rework Office apps especially for a touch UI, If they are successful doing this, it will be a different "Office" than the "Real Office" that runs on a non-touch system -- be it ARM or x86.



    * for the last decade, or so, there have been MS tablets running Office using a stylus. These have had minimal acceptance.



    http://allthingsd.com/20110105/live-...ks-arm-at-ces/



    "Next up is Office running on an ARM chip. This demo is on Microsoft Word and has it printing to an Epson printer. Microsoft shows demos of chips from Qualcomm, Nvidia and Texas Instruments."



    That was back in Jan of 2011 so I am sure it is working even better now.
  • Reply 86 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post


    I totally agree. When I saw the demo I thought that the ability to run native Windows applications was the one thing that would differentiate Windows 8 from all the other tablets ("A tablet and full Windows desktop - all in one!"). Without that ability it will be DOA - unless it costs $99.



    Now I understand why the demo tablet had a fan. They crammed desktop hardware in there.



    Their slogan has been "Windows 8 Everywhere Without Compromise." That's totally false. They need to name the tablet "Metro" and ditch the Windows name if it won't run Windows desktop applications. Maybe they should use Intel Atom and ditch ARM so they can run x86 apps.



    why would anyone wish to run Windows in any form after all the years of misery/stealing/bullying/ and everything else that is MS Modus Operandi

    ?
  • Reply 87 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    With Windows XP, the company added support for both Intel's Itanium IA64 and the AMD-originated x64, a 64-bit extension of x86. However, both products require separate apps and separate versions of the operating system.



    False.



    The Itanium version of Windows XP included an emulation layer (similar to Rosetta) that allowed all existing 32-bit x86 Windows applications to run. It dropped support for 16-bit Windows and DOS applications. Only the OS and the device drivers needed special versions.



    The x64 version of Windows XP, like the 64-bit versions of Vista and Windows 7, have full support to run 32-bit Windows applications without emulation, very similar to the way in which 32-bit OS X applications run in Lion's 64-bit kernel. Similarly, 16-bit Windows and 16-bit DOS application support is dropped. Only the OS and the device drivers need special versions.
  • Reply 88 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    http://allthingsd.com/20110105/live-...ks-arm-at-ces/



    "Next up is Office running on an ARM chip. This demo is on Microsoft Word and has it printing to an Epson printer. Microsoft shows demos of chips from Qualcomm, Nvidia and Texas Instruments."



    That was back in Jan of 2011 so I am sure it is working even better now.



    I didn't see a demo video -- just an explanation of what was presented! It sounds like the "Word demo" was the same non-demo shown in the video I linked to -- in June 2011, 6 months after your CES Link.
  • Reply 89 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Does it matter?



    Not really, it would be nice to win the bet though!





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    How is an x86 based tablet running Windows 8 any different * than the windows tablets of the last decade -- the x86 apps are unusable without a physical kb and mouse/touchpad?



    If you need a physical kb -- why not just buy a laptop?



    The use case for "legacy" Windows on a tablet is "dockable" devices. Examples are the ASUS Transformer and the Motorola Atrix).



    I don't expect a user being required to enter the "legacy" Windows desktop whilst using a device in "touch mode".
  • Reply 90 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    ...maybe Losedows



    How about ButtDows



    Or PoopyHeadDoze
  • Reply 91 of 135
    Don't understand how this is news. Why would you want a tablet to run desktop apps?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    "Architecture? You mean like a bridge?"



    People with little computer knowledge don't give a flying frick about any of that. They don't have A SINGLE CLUE. People think iOS applications work on Android machines, for heaven's sake. They'll see the word "Windows" on their Windows 8 tablet and complain, "Why can't I put my games on this? It says 'Requires Windows 7 or later'. This is later!"



    I've yet to hear of anyone trying to install PC games on their Windows phone. Don't see why it would be any different for a tablet.
  • Reply 92 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dirty Smuggler View Post


    You just beat me to it. Over 50 posts and no one mentions that the headline is false. Microsoft did not say "Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps". They said "ARM-based Windows 8 tablets won't run Windows apps". x86-based Windows8 Tablets will support them, as was demoed. What is DED's source that there won't be x86 tablets next year?



    FUD is the intent of the headline. Neither clarification nor explication.



    DED is little interested in stating the whole truth. He dissembles bits and pieces to bolster his opinions.
  • Reply 93 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    That's strange, because an application is a type of software. And software is run on your smartphone, tablet, and other mobile devices.



    Software runs on my TV set too. And my car's computer which controls the engine, etc.





    App, OTOH, is shorthand for "Apple". That is why it is called the AppStore - Short for "Apple Store".



    Programs run only on Windows desktops and notebooks. Applications run only on OSX.



    And "PC" does not include Macs. Otherwise, Jon Hodgman makes no sense when reading Apple's advertising scripts.
  • Reply 94 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Minimal traction on the cloud? Hotmail/Live/Skydrive 500 million users. Office 365 etc. Compared to what mobile me?



    Well, compared to Gmail, Dropbox, and so on. Maybe I shouldn't have said minimal traction, I should have said minimal profits from the cloud.
  • Reply 95 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Granmastak View Post


    What that tells me is that Ballmer sees it I the same way Jobs does, that the tablet is mostly for consuming content, not creating it and good battery life is paramount.



    It also tells me that M$ is probably scared that they may cannibalize their core market which is desktops if they were to make them fully compatible.. They can't possibly make as much on the tablet by selling the whole office suite for $30, like apple's similar offering...



    To which may I quote another poster:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89


    Then what would be the point of Windows8 then? I mean really...



  • Reply 96 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    why would anyone wish to run Windows in any form after all the years of misery/stealing/bullying/ and everything else that is MS Modus Operandi

    ?



    Because all the cool new software is always built for Windows first and best. Within any category there are almost always many fewer choices of software for Macs.
  • Reply 97 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Well, compared to Gmail, Dropbox, and so on. Maybe I shouldn't have said minimal traction, I should have said minimal profits from the cloud.



    How much is Apple paying Microsoft to run iCloud?



    Surely with their paid BPOS/Office 365 users and Apple's money Microsoft's cloud-based profit would be in front of what Dropbox or Gmail are pulling in?
  • Reply 98 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willb2064 View Post


    I've yet to hear of anyone trying to install PC games on their Windows phone. Don't see why it would be any different for a tablet.



    Because you have the full Windows UI on Windows 8 tablets. You don't on Windows 7 phones.



    Please tell me I didn't just have to post that. You're smart; you couldn't possibly have not known that.
  • Reply 99 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    I don't actually get if there is any new news here or if its another misunderstanding of what Microsoft is saying. The only crucial question is "Does ARM have the desktop mode?". We've known from the start apps will need recompiling and for the vast majority of apps that just means changing your compile settings.



    Are we forgetting about the .net apps? They are not compiled to any specific cpu and will work on any platform as long as Microsoft ports the .net runtime - which of course they are doing.
  • Reply 100 of 135
    I really don't like the type of people that need to use phrases like "value proposition" over and over, even if they don't really know how and/or when to use it.

    Reeks of corporate BS.
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