God. Some people just can't get past their inner fanboy.
Jobs was providing advice to Larry Page when he became CEO this year despite Android competing with iOS. Both Page and Brin have said that they originally wanted Jobs as their CEO at Google. Larry Page also lives one street over from Steve Jobs in Palo Alto. Eric Schmidt has spoken, repeatedly, about the brilliance of Jobs despite the hatred that Apple fans have for the man. In one interview Schmidt compared the rise of Jobs to the rise of Obama. Apple fans may think that Googlers have some hate on for Apple. Nothing could be further from the truth. They probably have a strong admiration for Apple as the company to beat. And the probably had nothing but profound admiration for a man who probably mentored the whole Google C-suite just as much as he competed with them.
They've put the link to Apple's website on their homepage. When have they ever honoured somebody who passed away like that? And for all you cynics, please tell me what would they have to gain by linking to a competitor's website?
But if business must be discussed, what would they gain by launching next week? When they announced the cancellation, the funeral date was not known. There was a risk the funeral could be on the same day. Their major launch would get drowned out by all the coverage of Jobs funeral and then right after with the iPhone 4S launch. Aside from that, if they planned to have any jabs at Apple in that keynote, that could be construed as poor taste in light of Jobs' death, that would be a PR disaster. Far better to take a week or two and go over that presentation to make sure nothing backfires from a PR perspective as a minimum.
It's moronic to suggest that they've got problems with the software or hardware. If that was their plan, and Jobs hadn't passed away, how would they have postponed the event? Someone seriously need to some sun in under those tinfoil hats.
You're selectively picking pieces of factoids to justify your premise. Gundotra also wrote a very touching tribute to Steve Jobs before he died. Brin, Page and Schmidt all have repeatedly expressed their idolatry of Jobs well before his death.
It would not surprise me if you already know about this but choose only to highlight the negative because it justifies your passion to see only the worst in people/organizations you do not like.
That's too bad. You can never ever prove your point (because true motive cannot be proven). But why not learn to be happy and try to see the best in people when the possibility very much exists. Open your eyes and heart.
I linked to Gundotra's piece in my original post. I am not being selective about what I choose to highlight. If anyone is doing that here, it is you. All I am doing is pointing out that these guys had very different things to say about Steve before he died.
As for their motives, it is pretty clearly self-interest. You don't have to be a mind reader or time traveler to infer motives, whether the actors are still living or died long ago. What purpose is there in reading or writing history, politics, or current events without learning about (and from) the motivations that drive people?
I am sure Page, Brin, and Gundotra admired Jobs. But that doesn't mean they didn't say and do some pretty crappy things in the last few years. For example, as has been widely reported, Steve made it pretty clear that he thought Android infringed on a lot of the work Apple had done with iOS directly to Google. That didn't stop Google from infringing.
Gundotra's "one man" line I quoted above wasn't true, as if Android is "open" in any true sense of the word - especially now with Ice Cream Sandwich. That didn't stop Google from beating Apple with the false "open" meme. Steve himself properly labeled this claim "bullshit."
This has nothing to do with happiness, cynicism, or whether I "like" Google or not. This is just objective reality.
It's moronic to suggest that they've got problems with the software or hardware. If that was their plan, and Jobs hadn't passed away, how would they have postponed the event? Someone seriously need to some sun in under those tinfoil hats.
Moronic? Postpone?
Of course they wouldn't have postponed if they didn't have a good excuse (... and this is not to say that this is the reason why they are postponing now). One only has to look at the introduction of the Xoom. They didn't postpone that introduction, but rushing both hardware and software to market to compete with the iPad 2 turned out to be a disaster for both. So saying that there might be a problem with ICS when mixed with the Prime is not really that far fetched considering that it looks like they are now rushing that combination to market to compete with the 4S.
Even longer than that. This feature was in Gingerbread since last year.
Though, I have a GS2 on Sprint, and the voice control is much better than stock gingerbread.
Siri isn't the same as voice talk/control or any predefined vocal command system.
Siri is artificial intelligence that can maintain a running context-sensitive dialog with the user -- then anticipate and perform actions on his behalf.
For an example of what I mean see about 1:11:41 in at:
1) The voice to text translation is provided by another product -- on the iPhone.
2) Siri analyzes the text in the context of what your are doing, and have been doing -- on the iPhone.
3) Based on the Siri Analysis, Siri performs an action either:
-- on the iPhone itself
-- by requesting outside help via Apple's servers
I believe that Google's voice solution requires a limited, predefined syntax -- and most, if not all of any analysis is done on Google's servers.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
Even if Google are able to approximate Siri within the Android OS and Google apps -- I doubt that they will have sufficient control over the hardware to match the iPhone/Siri implementation.
The quote by Alan Kay comes to mind:
“People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.”
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
What hardware?
Besides the already included micrphone and speakerphone, there is nothing related to Siri that isnt on the iPhone 4 (regular).
Apple makes the Siri available only on the 4s to spur sales of it.
It essentially locks out the feature set of Siri used on other phones.
It's all software.
There is not a special switch to activate it (besides holding down the home button for 2 seconds, of which Apple already had the feature in iOS 4)
Dont get ahead of yourself here bud.
Siri (and its kind of software) showcases the power of cloud computing.
The actually software inside the iPhone 4s is nothing more than a recording device + transmitter that sends the voice data over to Apple's datacenter (where most of the heavy lifting and voice analysis is done).
We all know that Google's strength is quite heavy in this area.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
Even if Google are able to approximate Siri within the Android OS and Google apps -- I doubt that they will have sufficient control over the hardware to match the iPhone/Siri implementation.
The quote by Alan Kay comes to mind:
?People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.?
This is what I'm most curious about. If there is special HW for the local processing of Siri I hope it's an obvious chip and not a new integrated part of the A5 PoP just to know that it exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
What hardware?
Besides the already included micrphone and speakerphone, there is nothing related to Siri that isnt on the iPhone 4 (regular).
Apple makes the Siri available only on the 4s to spur sales of it.
It essentially locks out the feature set of Siri used on other phones.
It's all software.
1) See the Alan Kay quote.
2) You don't seem to have an understanding of how SW and HW work in tandem so here's an example that I hope you can wrap your head around: H.264.
This is what I'm most curious about. If there is special HW for the local processing of Siri I hope it's an obvious chip and not a new integrated part of the A5 PoP just to know that it exists.
1) See the Alan Kay quote.
2) You don't seem to have an understanding of how SW and HW work in tandem so here's an example that I hope you can wrap your head around: H.264.
Show me the evidence that the Siri has a special hardware feature INSIDE the iPhone 4s that actually does the heavy lifting.
I'm willing to bet that most of the processing work and "AI" is done at the backend at Apple's computer farm.
Like I've mentioned already, the iPhone 4s's Siri feature on the phone is nothing more than a voice recorder + transmitter that send all of its information over to Apple's datacenter to do the voice analysis. Even the demonstrator mentioned it during his demo.
Sorry to rain on your parade but there isnt anything special INSIDE the iPhone 4s's Siri that sets its apart from the iPhone 4's hardware.
It's all software.
I would've given credit had Apple included additional microphones on the 4s to recognize voice more clearly. Now THAT would set the 4s apart from the 4. But so far, as to my knowledge, that isnt the case here.
Google uses the same type of technology to interpret voice and do the data processing on its computer farms. Google Maps for getting directions. On Android, the software you download isnt anything special. It's just a voice recorder with a transmitter that sends the voice data over to Google's computer farms where it does all the heavy lifting and spits out the appropriate directions.
Show me the evidence that the Siri has a special hardware feature INSIDE the iPhone 4s that actually does the heavy lifting.
Do you even read posts before you respond? What part about being curious about the potential for dedicated HW did you not understand?
Quote:
Like I've mentioned already, the iPhone 4s's Siri feature on the phone is nothing more than a voice recorder + transmitter that send all of its information over to Apple's datacenter to do the voice analysis. Even the demonstrator mentioned it during his demo.
So you want to go on record here every bit of audio is being sent to an Apple server to be processed and there is not a single bit of local processing involved in any of the Siri ads.
Since we've determined you have trouble with comprehension I'll break this down again for you. You're claiming that when you say "Tell my wife I'm running late." That the audio is sent to a server, then processed into text, then it figures out what kind of data this is, what kind os message to compile, who your wife is among your contacts, what you want to say, and then — and only then — sends it back to the phone as a a packet all ready to send?
I'll give you another hint. Find an iPhone user, ask to use their iPhone, enable Airport. Now hold down the Home Button and say "Play songs by %name_of_artist_in_iPod_app%." Guess what will happen?
Do you even read posts before you respond? What part about being curious about the potential for dedicated HW did you not understand?
So what your saying is, just like the improvement in performance transitioning from software driven H.264 encoding/decoding to hardware driven H.264 decoding/encoding you would want a world where Siri is based strictly on hardware?
Too costly and slow to deploy upgrades.
Why? Software is easier to upgrade and deploy where as hardware (though faster) requires too much retooling.
I'll give you another hint. Find an iPhone user, ask to use their iPhone, enable Airport so you have no internet connection whatsoever. Now hold down the Home Button and say play songs by %name_of_artist_in_iPod_app%." Guess what will happen?
Is that how Siri works? From what I've understood, that feature is already available on the iOS 4.
I'm talking about Siri, not the voice controls already in the iPhone.
Besides the already included micrphone and speakerphone, there is nothing related to Siri that isnt on the iPhone 4 (regular).
Apple makes the Siri available only on the 4s to spur sales of it.
It essentially locks out the feature set of Siri used on other phones.
It's all software.
There is not a special switch to activate it (besides holding down the home button for 2 seconds, of which Apple already had the feature in iOS 4)
Dont get ahead of yourself here bud.
Siri (and its kind of software) showcases the power of cloud computing.
The actually software inside the iPhone 4s is nothing more than a recording device + transmitter that sends the voice data over to Apple's datacenter (where most of the heavy lifting and voice analysis is done).
We all know that Google's strength is quite heavy in this area.
Err...
The A5 chip in the iPhone 4S has dual-core CPU and Dual-core GPU -- to my mind it is overkill for today's smart phones... unless the phone, itself, is doing VR or AI
My name is Dick Applebaum, not bud... I am not afraid to use my real name and stand behind the statements I post to the Internet.
What's your name?
iOS is fully aware of the hardware running it -- it does not need a "special switch".
Siri is beta software available, for now, on the iPhone 4S only.
Just like this thread, neither you nor I, know the motivations of Apple (or Google and Sammy).
I suspect, that Apple wants to control the beta -- and is very concerned about the initial user experience.
I used the non-integrated Siri app on the iP4 -- it was meh... nothing like what Apple demoed.
I suspect that, after a successful beta, Apple will release Siri for the iPad 2 (same A5 chip) * and the iP4 if the hardware can support it.
* somewhere in the keynote Phil Shiller mentioned that the 4S had a DSP. This would be quite useful/efficient for AI voice interaction. I don't know if the circuit card in the iP4 or iPad 2 has this DSP.
Finally, if you spend a few moments carefully watching the link I posted, you will discover that Siri does the analysis on the iPhone, and sometimes performs the action on the iPhone -- without involving the servers.
You may not know it, but Google does -- this is quite different than Googles implementation of vocal commands.
Edit: As a comparison (and for comic relief) I posted this link to another thread:
Comments
I cannot imagine SJ ever postponing an Apple event/announcement due to the death of a competitor's founder/chairman/CEO.
No, he wouldn't. But none of them have his stature. So that argument, with all due respect, simply has no standing.
or as many have said. Something went wrong and this is a convenient excuse.
My guess is that the presentation was so 'anti-Apple' or targeted at Apple that the backlash would have been bad PR for both brands.
or as many have said. Something went wrong and this is a convenient excuse.
That would be my guess.
After all:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...pples_ios.html
So much for Google acting out of respect for Apple and Jobs.
BULL shit.
Time to copy Siri
Samsung already had Voice talk, 5 months ago.
Jobs was providing advice to Larry Page when he became CEO this year despite Android competing with iOS. Both Page and Brin have said that they originally wanted Jobs as their CEO at Google. Larry Page also lives one street over from Steve Jobs in Palo Alto. Eric Schmidt has spoken, repeatedly, about the brilliance of Jobs despite the hatred that Apple fans have for the man. In one interview Schmidt compared the rise of Jobs to the rise of Obama. Apple fans may think that Googlers have some hate on for Apple. Nothing could be further from the truth. They probably have a strong admiration for Apple as the company to beat. And the probably had nothing but profound admiration for a man who probably mentored the whole Google C-suite just as much as he competed with them.
They've put the link to Apple's website on their homepage. When have they ever honoured somebody who passed away like that? And for all you cynics, please tell me what would they have to gain by linking to a competitor's website?
But if business must be discussed, what would they gain by launching next week? When they announced the cancellation, the funeral date was not known. There was a risk the funeral could be on the same day. Their major launch would get drowned out by all the coverage of Jobs funeral and then right after with the iPhone 4S launch. Aside from that, if they planned to have any jabs at Apple in that keynote, that could be construed as poor taste in light of Jobs' death, that would be a PR disaster. Far better to take a week or two and go over that presentation to make sure nothing backfires from a PR perspective as a minimum.
It's moronic to suggest that they've got problems with the software or hardware. If that was their plan, and Jobs hadn't passed away, how would they have postponed the event? Someone seriously need to some sun in under those tinfoil hats.
That would be my guess.
After all:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...pples_ios.html
So much for Google acting out of respect for Apple and Jobs.
The courts and tribunals don't extend their deadlines just because somebody passes away.
Though, I have a GS2 on Sprint, and the voice control is much better than stock gingerbread.
You're selectively picking pieces of factoids to justify your premise. Gundotra also wrote a very touching tribute to Steve Jobs before he died. Brin, Page and Schmidt all have repeatedly expressed their idolatry of Jobs well before his death.
It would not surprise me if you already know about this but choose only to highlight the negative because it justifies your passion to see only the worst in people/organizations you do not like.
That's too bad. You can never ever prove your point (because true motive cannot be proven). But why not learn to be happy and try to see the best in people when the possibility very much exists. Open your eyes and heart.
I linked to Gundotra's piece in my original post. I am not being selective about what I choose to highlight. If anyone is doing that here, it is you. All I am doing is pointing out that these guys had very different things to say about Steve before he died.
As for their motives, it is pretty clearly self-interest. You don't have to be a mind reader or time traveler to infer motives, whether the actors are still living or died long ago. What purpose is there in reading or writing history, politics, or current events without learning about (and from) the motivations that drive people?
I am sure Page, Brin, and Gundotra admired Jobs. But that doesn't mean they didn't say and do some pretty crappy things in the last few years. For example, as has been widely reported, Steve made it pretty clear that he thought Android infringed on a lot of the work Apple had done with iOS directly to Google. That didn't stop Google from infringing.
Gundotra's "one man" line I quoted above wasn't true, as if Android is "open" in any true sense of the word - especially now with Ice Cream Sandwich. That didn't stop Google from beating Apple with the false "open" meme. Steve himself properly labeled this claim "bullshit."
This has nothing to do with happiness, cynicism, or whether I "like" Google or not. This is just objective reality.
It's moronic to suggest that they've got problems with the software or hardware. If that was their plan, and Jobs hadn't passed away, how would they have postponed the event? Someone seriously need to some sun in under those tinfoil hats.
Moronic? Postpone?
Of course they wouldn't have postponed if they didn't have a good excuse (... and this is not to say that this is the reason why they are postponing now). One only has to look at the introduction of the Xoom. They didn't postpone that introduction, but rushing both hardware and software to market to compete with the iPad 2 turned out to be a disaster for both. So saying that there might be a problem with ICS when mixed with the Prime is not really that far fetched considering that it looks like they are now rushing that combination to market to compete with the 4S.
Samsung already had Voice talk, 5 months ago.
Even longer than that. This feature was in Gingerbread since last year.
Though, I have a GS2 on Sprint, and the voice control is much better than stock gingerbread.
Siri isn't the same as voice talk/control or any predefined vocal command system.
Siri is artificial intelligence that can maintain a running context-sensitive dialog with the user -- then anticipate and perform actions on his behalf.
For an example of what I mean see about 1:11:41 in at:
Apple Sepcial Event - October 4, 2011
1) The voice to text translation is provided by another product -- on the iPhone.
2) Siri analyzes the text in the context of what your are doing, and have been doing -- on the iPhone.
3) Based on the Siri Analysis, Siri performs an action either:
-- on the iPhone itself
-- by requesting outside help via Apple's servers
I believe that Google's voice solution requires a limited, predefined syntax -- and most, if not all of any analysis is done on Google's servers.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
Even if Google are able to approximate Siri within the Android OS and Google apps -- I doubt that they will have sufficient control over the hardware to match the iPhone/Siri implementation.
The quote by Alan Kay comes to mind:
“People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.”
You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
What hardware?
Besides the already included micrphone and speakerphone, there is nothing related to Siri that isnt on the iPhone 4 (regular).
Apple makes the Siri available only on the 4s to spur sales of it.
It essentially locks out the feature set of Siri used on other phones.
It's all software.
There is not a special switch to activate it (besides holding down the home button for 2 seconds, of which Apple already had the feature in iOS 4)
Dont get ahead of yourself here bud.
Siri (and its kind of software) showcases the power of cloud computing.
The actually software inside the iPhone 4s is nothing more than a recording device + transmitter that sends the voice data over to Apple's datacenter (where most of the heavy lifting and voice analysis is done).
We all know that Google's strength is quite heavy in this area.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
Even if Google are able to approximate Siri within the Android OS and Google apps -- I doubt that they will have sufficient control over the hardware to match the iPhone/Siri implementation.
The quote by Alan Kay comes to mind:
?People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.?
This is what I'm most curious about. If there is special HW for the local processing of Siri I hope it's an obvious chip and not a new integrated part of the A5 PoP just to know that it exists.
What hardware?
Besides the already included micrphone and speakerphone, there is nothing related to Siri that isnt on the iPhone 4 (regular).
Apple makes the Siri available only on the 4s to spur sales of it.
It essentially locks out the feature set of Siri used on other phones.
It's all software.
1) See the Alan Kay quote.
2) You don't seem to have an understanding of how SW and HW work in tandem so here's an example that I hope you can wrap your head around: H.264.
Classy Move Google. Anything else would be in poor taste and exploitive.
huh?? So any business in the mobile market shouldn't launch any new products in the next couple weeks because of Jobs?
This is what I'm most curious about. If there is special HW for the local processing of Siri I hope it's an obvious chip and not a new integrated part of the A5 PoP just to know that it exists.
1) See the Alan Kay quote.
2) You don't seem to have an understanding of how SW and HW work in tandem so here's an example that I hope you can wrap your head around: H.264.
Show me the evidence that the Siri has a special hardware feature INSIDE the iPhone 4s that actually does the heavy lifting.
I'm willing to bet that most of the processing work and "AI" is done at the backend at Apple's computer farm.
Like I've mentioned already, the iPhone 4s's Siri feature on the phone is nothing more than a voice recorder + transmitter that send all of its information over to Apple's datacenter to do the voice analysis. Even the demonstrator mentioned it during his demo.
Sorry to rain on your parade but there isnt anything special INSIDE the iPhone 4s's Siri that sets its apart from the iPhone 4's hardware.
It's all software.
I would've given credit had Apple included additional microphones on the 4s to recognize voice more clearly. Now THAT would set the 4s apart from the 4. But so far, as to my knowledge, that isnt the case here.
Google uses the same type of technology to interpret voice and do the data processing on its computer farms. Google Maps for getting directions. On Android, the software you download isnt anything special. It's just a voice recorder with a transmitter that sends the voice data over to Google's computer farms where it does all the heavy lifting and spits out the appropriate directions.
Show me the evidence that the Siri has a special hardware feature INSIDE the iPhone 4s that actually does the heavy lifting.
Do you even read posts before you respond? What part about being curious about the potential for dedicated HW did you not understand?
Like I've mentioned already, the iPhone 4s's Siri feature on the phone is nothing more than a voice recorder + transmitter that send all of its information over to Apple's datacenter to do the voice analysis. Even the demonstrator mentioned it during his demo.
So you want to go on record here every bit of audio is being sent to an Apple server to be processed and there is not a single bit of local processing involved in any of the Siri ads.
Since we've determined you have trouble with comprehension I'll break this down again for you. You're claiming that when you say "Tell my wife I'm running late." That the audio is sent to a server, then processed into text, then it figures out what kind of data this is, what kind os message to compile, who your wife is among your contacts, what you want to say, and then — and only then — sends it back to the phone as a a packet all ready to send?
I'll give you another hint. Find an iPhone user, ask to use their iPhone, enable Airport. Now hold down the Home Button and say "Play songs by %name_of_artist_in_iPod_app%." Guess what will happen?
Do you even read posts before you respond? What part about being curious about the potential for dedicated HW did you not understand?
So what your saying is, just like the improvement in performance transitioning from software driven H.264 encoding/decoding to hardware driven H.264 decoding/encoding you would want a world where Siri is based strictly on hardware?
Too costly and slow to deploy upgrades.
Why? Software is easier to upgrade and deploy where as hardware (though faster) requires too much retooling.
I'll give you another hint. Find an iPhone user, ask to use their iPhone, enable Airport so you have no internet connection whatsoever. Now hold down the Home Button and say play songs by %name_of_artist_in_iPod_app%." Guess what will happen?
Is that how Siri works? From what I've understood, that feature is already available on the iOS 4.
I'm talking about Siri, not the voice controls already in the iPhone.
Are we even on the same page here?
What hardware?
Besides the already included micrphone and speakerphone, there is nothing related to Siri that isnt on the iPhone 4 (regular).
Apple makes the Siri available only on the 4s to spur sales of it.
It essentially locks out the feature set of Siri used on other phones.
It's all software.
There is not a special switch to activate it (besides holding down the home button for 2 seconds, of which Apple already had the feature in iOS 4)
Dont get ahead of yourself here bud.
Siri (and its kind of software) showcases the power of cloud computing.
The actually software inside the iPhone 4s is nothing more than a recording device + transmitter that sends the voice data over to Apple's datacenter (where most of the heavy lifting and voice analysis is done).
We all know that Google's strength is quite heavy in this area.
Err...
The A5 chip in the iPhone 4S has dual-core CPU and Dual-core GPU -- to my mind it is overkill for today's smart phones... unless the phone, itself, is doing VR or AI
My name is Dick Applebaum, not bud... I am not afraid to use my real name and stand behind the statements I post to the Internet.
What's your name?
iOS is fully aware of the hardware running it -- it does not need a "special switch".
Siri is beta software available, for now, on the iPhone 4S only.
Just like this thread, neither you nor I, know the motivations of Apple (or Google and Sammy).
I suspect, that Apple wants to control the beta -- and is very concerned about the initial user experience.
I used the non-integrated Siri app on the iP4 -- it was meh... nothing like what Apple demoed.
I suspect that, after a successful beta, Apple will release Siri for the iPad 2 (same A5 chip) * and the iP4 if the hardware can support it.
* somewhere in the keynote Phil Shiller mentioned that the 4S had a DSP. This would be quite useful/efficient for AI voice interaction. I don't know if the circuit card in the iP4 or iPad 2 has this DSP.
Finally, if you spend a few moments carefully watching the link I posted, you will discover that Siri does the analysis on the iPhone, and sometimes performs the action on the iPhone -- without involving the servers.
You may not know it, but Google does -- this is quite different than Googles implementation of vocal commands.
Edit: As a comparison (and for comic relief) I posted this link to another thread:
Who can forget this lovely demo:
Microsoft Vista Speech Recognition Tested - Perl Scripting