If they had respected Steve, they would have acted differently while he was alive.
Remember Google I/O with Vic Gundotra in 2010? "If Google did not act, our future would belong to one man, one company, one vision," with a 1984 scene on the slideshow behind him. And we're supposed to take this guy's little "Steve story" seriously, as if he and Steve were best buds? Give me a break.
It is absolutely NOT "hatred of anything not Apple." It is contempt for people like Gundotra who scorned Steve while he was alive, and now are jumping on the "We love Steve" bandwagon after he is gone.
Gundotra openly and often admired Steve Jobs. I know this is hard to understand but Apple =\\= Steve Jobs.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
Even if Google are able to approximate Siri within the Android OS and Google apps -- I doubt that they will have sufficient control over the hardware to match the iPhone/Siri implementation.
The quote by Alan Kay comes to mind:
?People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.?
While Apple records its revenue from hardware sales, it has been posited that Apple is a software-driven company. They write software and create services that are optimized to run best on their proprietary hardware.
I'm inclined to think that this cancellation is more about Steve's death overshadowing this event, than it being out of respect. They want to grab all the headlines, rather than be largely ignored by the media at this time.
Agreed. If Google and Samdung wanted to show true respect for SJ's genius and innovative talent, they'd stop their hardware/software copying and pull their products from the market. Schmidt et. al. are nothing short of disingenuous with their feigned respect. IMO, they have solidified their position as fraud artists. Shameful...absolutely shameful.
i myself am an apple use, but seriously people like you are the worst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2stepbay
Agreed. If Google and Samdung wanted to show true respect for SJ's genius and innovative talent, they'd stop their hardware/software copying and pull their products from the market. Schmidt et. al. are nothing short of disingenuous with their feigned respect. IMO, they have solidified their position as fraud artists. Shameful...absolutely shameful.
refer to the above link. you people make it very hard to be an apple fan.
Lack of sportsmanship in the Apple fanboy camp is utterly preposterous.
You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
And you wonder why most of them got kicked out from MacRumour?
I can't believe that MacRumour is now where grownups go to, ever since Daniel Eran Dilger becomes a staf writer of AI, and all articles coming afterward are for clickbaits and page drives.
Show me the evidence that the Siri has a special hardware feature INSIDE the iPhone 4s that actually does the heavy lifting.
I'm willing to bet that most of the processing work and "AI" is done at the backend at Apple's computer farm.
Like I've mentioned already, the iPhone 4s's Siri feature on the phone is nothing more than a voice recorder + transmitter that send all of its information over to Apple's datacenter to do the voice analysis. Even the demonstrator mentioned it during his demo.
Sorry to rain on your parade but there isnt anything special INSIDE the iPhone 4s's Siri that sets its apart from the iPhone 4's hardware.
Other than, of course, twice the processor cores, 7 times the GPU performance (which with Apple software can be used for general purpose computing tasks) and probably more RAM.
Clearly, the 4S is far more powerful than the 4.
And your argument that it is being done at Apple's computer farm is absurd. It apparently works even when there's no internet connection.
Other than, of course, twice the processor cores, 7 times the GPU performance (which with Apple software can be used for general purpose computing tasks) and probably more RAM.
Clearly, the 4S is far more powerful than the 4.
And your argument that it is being done at Apple's computer farm is absurd. It apparently works even when there's no internet connection.
on the demo it took 2 seconds to answer Scott Forstall most times. That indicates a round trip to the servers. We know it does for wiki, and wolfram.
Does anybody think that Apple would ever cancel an event if the head of Google or Samsung happened to die?
I'm sure that Apple would release some polite sounding statement and offer condolences, but they wouldn't cancel any event, nor should they.
Not for garden vareity CEOs but they might for founders. Someone the size of Brin, Gates, Ellison, Zuckerberg or even Disney. They are in the same league with Jobs in social heirachy. You might even see a wreath and an open letter by Jobs at the funeral.
For Samsung, Lee Kun Hee was their counterpart for being a Samsung man climbing up the ranks and rescued it during 1998 Financial Crisis. Hope to hear something from him or the chief of mobile division, Choi Gee Sung.
And you wonder why most of them got kicked out from MacRumour?
I can't believe that MacRumour is now where grownups go to, ever since Daniel Eran Dilger becomes a staf writer of AI, and all articles coming afterward are for clickbaits and page drives.
You'll want to have an actual point before you start randomly insulting and accusing everyone here, thanks.
on the demo it took 2 seconds to answer Scott Forstall most times. That indicates a round trip to the servers. We know it does for wiki, and wolfram.
Yes, obviously, it has to go to the Internet to get anything that is not stored on the device!
It appears to work like this:
1) Siri, delegates speech-to-text translation to Nuance, on the iPhone 4S.
2) Then, Siri analyzes what needs to be done, on the iPhone 4S.
3) If the request can be resolved on the device, it is delegated to an app on the iPhone 4S.
-- make a note
-- set a timer, alarm
-- read a message, etc.
4) If the request requires web interaction, Siri delegates round-tripping to the web by making efficient, streamlined requests* of apps like Maps, Safari, etc. The request is assembled, and the results decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
5) For some requests, Siri passes the request to Wolfram, Yelp, etc.
At this point we don't know whether Siri passes the translated speech-to-text directly to the 3rd party service. However, I suspect that Siri passes the results of its analysis: "what is mitosis", "Find me a good Greek restaurant in Palo Alto", etc. in an efficient, streamlined request* to Apple's servers. Then, Apple's servers make a high-speed backend request to the desired 3rd-party service. Finally, Apple's servers assemble and encode* the information and returns it to Siri on the device. The request results are decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
6) On the iPhone 4S, Siri delegates text-to-speech translation to built-in iOS routines. Siri, does analysis, delegation and presentation.
* There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through HTML, XML and Web Services.
That analysis is probably correct ( except you would send ""what is mitosis"), however it does show that some of the processing is done online. I dont get that "There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through ... Web Services". XML, yes, - slow as molasses= but any communication with a web is tautologically a web service.
Yes, obviously, it has to go to the Internet to get anything that is not stored on the device!
It appears to work like this:
1) Siri, delegates speech-to-text translation to Nuance, on the iPhone 4S.
2) Then, Siri analyzes what needs to be done, on the iPhone 4S.
3) If the request can be resolved on the device, it is delegated to an app on the iPhone 4S.
-- make a note
-- set a timer, alarm
-- read a message, etc.
4) If the request requires web interaction, Siri delegates round-tripping to the web by making efficient, streamlined requests* of apps like Maps, Safari, etc. The request is assembled, and the results decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
5) For some requests, Siri passes the request to Wolfram, Yelp, etc.
At this point we don't know whether Siri passes the translated speech-to-text directly to the 3rd party service. However, I suspect that Siri passes the results of its analysis: "what is mitosis", "Find me a good Greek restaurant in Palo Alto", etc. in an efficient, streamlined request* to Apple's servers. Then, Apple's servers make a high-speed backend request to the desired 3rd-party service. Finally, Apple's servers assemble and encode* the information and returns it to Siri on the device. The request results are decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
6) On the iPhone 4S, Siri delegates text-to-speech translation to built-in iOS routines. Siri, does analysis, delegation and presentation.
* There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through HTML, XML and Web Services.
And we have a pretty good idea which requests are being sent to a remote server when Siri says "Let me think?"
That analysis is probably correct ( except you would send ""what is mitosis"), however it does show that some of the processing is done online. I dont get that "There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through ... Web Services". XML, yes, - slow as molasses= but any communication with a web is tautologically a web service.
But I think the point is that the speech recognition and intent interpretation is local, and the online transactions are just the same ones that you might execute if you were doing it yourself (information lookup, email, text etc.), only maybe done more effectively (in terms of query construction etc.).
I am curious about those claimed efficiency gains though. If they are proprietary transactions with Apple servers, then you could imagine more efficient protocols than http, but if they are dealing with 3rd party web servers then they have no other choices.
That analysis is probably correct ( except you would send ""what is mitosis"), however it does show that some of the processing is done online. I dont get that "There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through ... Web Services". XML, yes, - slow as molasses= but any communication with a web is tautologically a web service.
True!
But web services, as implemented, use the notoriously verbose XML -- so they can be human-readable... even though they are not read by humans in XML form.
Why is the name of the article postpone and the name of the article in the forum cancel? I presume it's being postponed, and apparently only the keynote, not the launch as already stated.
BusinessInsider says it's postponed, but the html page name uses 'cancelled'.
they are just waiting so that steve's passing doesn't overshadow the release of ICS and the nexus/prime/whateveritscalled.
Are you suggesting the people in charge at Google and Samsung (who have worked closely with Mr. Jobs for years and have in some cases been mentored by him) weren't affected by his passing?
But I think the point is that the speech recognition and intent interpretation is local, and the online transactions are just the same ones that you might execute if you were doing it yourself (information lookup, email, text etc.), only maybe done more effectively (in terms of query construction etc.).
I am curious about those claimed efficiency gains though. If they are proprietary transactions with Apple servers, then you could imagine more efficient protocols than http, but if they are dealing with 3rd party web servers then they have no other choices.
I suspect it is similar to the Amazon Fire's Silk browser implementation:
1) A single, efficient, relatively low-speed connection from the device to the company's proprietary servers -- as opposed to multiple, inefficient low-speed connections to target servers.
2) The single request can minimize HTTP and XML overhead in the transmitted packet -- it does not need to be human-readable or conform to any, but the most basic TCP/IP protocols.
A single request to a target server usually involves multiple connections -- to download JavaScript scripts, CSS definitions, images, ad banners, animations, Flash, Flash Content, etc. Say, each image results in a single request-response connection that takes 1/2 second or more to turn around -- over and above the time to download the requested image. A web page with 10 images can easily waste several seconds in turning around request/response connections.
3) The company's servers communicate with the target servers via high-speed/bandwidth backbones.
4) The company's servers can cache frequently-requested data and avoid many requests of target servers.
5) The company's servers can aggregate the information from its caches and from requests to the target servers, then create and send an efficient data packet to the device. Again, there is no need for XML or HTML overhead.
So the device and the company's servers have a single, very efficient request/response connection.
The company's servers do all the heavy lifting (as efficiently as possible) gathering, caching and aggregating data from multiple target servers.
The net result to the user is that sometimes Siri takes a moment, or so, longer to do what you ask. But it is not significant enough to degrade the UX.
In fact, Siri usually warns/notifies you of the extra effort: "Let me think about that", "I think I have an answer for you", etc.
You could say that Siri, Silk and the like give the user the "Best of the web" (speed and content) and eliminates the "Worst of the Web" (slowness, ads, distractions, click-bait, etc.).
It will be interesting to see how monitization of the web changes as a result of this change.
And, I suspect that people, who wanted to, could ask Siri: "Show me the New York Times web page" (in all its current glory).
Comments
If they had respected Steve, they would have acted differently while he was alive.
Remember Google I/O with Vic Gundotra in 2010? "If Google did not act, our future would belong to one man, one company, one vision," with a 1984 scene on the slideshow behind him. And we're supposed to take this guy's little "Steve story" seriously, as if he and Steve were best buds? Give me a break.
https://plus.google.com/107117483540...ts/gcSStkKxXTw
It is absolutely NOT "hatred of anything not Apple." It is contempt for people like Gundotra who scorned Steve while he was alive, and now are jumping on the "We love Steve" bandwagon after he is gone.
Gundotra openly and often admired Steve Jobs. I know this is hard to understand but Apple =\\= Steve Jobs.
I suspect what sets iPhone/Siri apart is the deep integration of the Siri analysis software and the iPhone 4S hardware.
Even if Google are able to approximate Siri within the Android OS and Google apps -- I doubt that they will have sufficient control over the hardware to match the iPhone/Siri implementation.
The quote by Alan Kay comes to mind:
?People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.?
While Apple records its revenue from hardware sales, it has been posited that Apple is a software-driven company. They write software and create services that are optimized to run best on their proprietary hardware.
I'm inclined to think that this cancellation is more about Steve's death overshadowing this event, than it being out of respect. They want to grab all the headlines, rather than be largely ignored by the media at this time.
Agreed. If Google and Samdung wanted to show true respect for SJ's genius and innovative talent, they'd stop their hardware/software copying and pull their products from the market. Schmidt et. al. are nothing short of disingenuous with their feigned respect. IMO, they have solidified their position as fraud artists. Shameful...absolutely shameful.
BULL shit.
Time to copy Siri
i don't want to say you're an idiot, but sadly you are.
it is so likely that google is going build from ground up, with their thousands of developers to make a siri ripoff in two weeks /sarcasm
but hey while we're on who's copying who take a look at this..http://androidandme.com/2011/06/news...d-lock-screen/
i myself am an apple use, but seriously people like you are the worst.
Agreed. If Google and Samdung wanted to show true respect for SJ's genius and innovative talent, they'd stop their hardware/software copying and pull their products from the market. Schmidt et. al. are nothing short of disingenuous with their feigned respect. IMO, they have solidified their position as fraud artists. Shameful...absolutely shameful.
refer to the above link. you people make it very hard to be an apple fan.
i don't want to say you're an idiot, but sadly you are.
it is so likely that google is going build from ground up, with their thousands of developers to make a siri ripoff in two weeks /sarcasm
but hey while we're on who's copying who take a look at this..http://androidandme.com/2011/06/news...d-lock-screen/
i myself am an apple use, but seriously people like you are the worst.
refer to the above link. you people make it very hard to be an apple fan.
Steve mentored Page and Brin...Google execs openly admired the man through and through.
Yet now, somehow...they are being disingenuous...because...ummm...well...uhhh...no logical reason.
Lack of sportsmanship in the Apple fanboy camp is utterly preposterous.
You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
And you wonder why most of them got kicked out from MacRumour?
I can't believe that MacRumour is now where grownups go to, ever since Daniel Eran Dilger becomes a staf writer of AI, and all articles coming afterward are for clickbaits and page drives.
Show me the evidence that the Siri has a special hardware feature INSIDE the iPhone 4s that actually does the heavy lifting.
I'm willing to bet that most of the processing work and "AI" is done at the backend at Apple's computer farm.
Like I've mentioned already, the iPhone 4s's Siri feature on the phone is nothing more than a voice recorder + transmitter that send all of its information over to Apple's datacenter to do the voice analysis. Even the demonstrator mentioned it during his demo.
Sorry to rain on your parade but there isnt anything special INSIDE the iPhone 4s's Siri that sets its apart from the iPhone 4's hardware.
Other than, of course, twice the processor cores, 7 times the GPU performance (which with Apple software can be used for general purpose computing tasks) and probably more RAM.
Clearly, the 4S is far more powerful than the 4.
And your argument that it is being done at Apple's computer farm is absurd. It apparently works even when there's no internet connection.
Other than, of course, twice the processor cores, 7 times the GPU performance (which with Apple software can be used for general purpose computing tasks) and probably more RAM.
Clearly, the 4S is far more powerful than the 4.
And your argument that it is being done at Apple's computer farm is absurd. It apparently works even when there's no internet connection.
on the demo it took 2 seconds to answer Scott Forstall most times. That indicates a round trip to the servers. We know it does for wiki, and wolfram.
Does anybody think that Apple would ever cancel an event if the head of Google or Samsung happened to die?
I'm sure that Apple would release some polite sounding statement and offer condolences, but they wouldn't cancel any event, nor should they.
Not for garden vareity CEOs but they might for founders. Someone the size of Brin, Gates, Ellison, Zuckerberg or even Disney. They are in the same league with Jobs in social heirachy. You might even see a wreath and an open letter by Jobs at the funeral.
For Samsung, Lee Kun Hee was their counterpart for being a Samsung man climbing up the ranks and rescued it during 1998 Financial Crisis. Hope to hear something from him or the chief of mobile division, Choi Gee Sung.
And you wonder why most of them got kicked out from MacRumour?
I can't believe that MacRumour is now where grownups go to, ever since Daniel Eran Dilger becomes a staf writer of AI, and all articles coming afterward are for clickbaits and page drives.
You'll want to have an actual point before you start randomly insulting and accusing everyone here, thanks.
on the demo it took 2 seconds to answer Scott Forstall most times. That indicates a round trip to the servers. We know it does for wiki, and wolfram.
Yes, obviously, it has to go to the Internet to get anything that is not stored on the device!
It appears to work like this:
1) Siri, delegates speech-to-text translation to Nuance, on the iPhone 4S.
2) Then, Siri analyzes what needs to be done, on the iPhone 4S.
3) If the request can be resolved on the device, it is delegated to an app on the iPhone 4S.
-- make a note
-- set a timer, alarm
-- read a message, etc.
4) If the request requires web interaction, Siri delegates round-tripping to the web by making efficient, streamlined requests* of apps like Maps, Safari, etc. The request is assembled, and the results decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
5) For some requests, Siri passes the request to Wolfram, Yelp, etc.
At this point we don't know whether Siri passes the translated speech-to-text directly to the 3rd party service. However, I suspect that Siri passes the results of its analysis: "what is mitosis", "Find me a good Greek restaurant in Palo Alto", etc. in an efficient, streamlined request* to Apple's servers. Then, Apple's servers make a high-speed backend request to the desired 3rd-party service. Finally, Apple's servers assemble and encode* the information and returns it to Siri on the device. The request results are decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
6) On the iPhone 4S, Siri delegates text-to-speech translation to built-in iOS routines. Siri, does analysis, delegation and presentation.
* There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through HTML, XML and Web Services.
Yes, obviously, it has to go to the Internet to get anything that is not stored on the device!
It appears to work like this:
1) Siri, delegates speech-to-text translation to Nuance, on the iPhone 4S.
2) Then, Siri analyzes what needs to be done, on the iPhone 4S.
3) If the request can be resolved on the device, it is delegated to an app on the iPhone 4S.
-- make a note
-- set a timer, alarm
-- read a message, etc.
4) If the request requires web interaction, Siri delegates round-tripping to the web by making efficient, streamlined requests* of apps like Maps, Safari, etc. The request is assembled, and the results decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
5) For some requests, Siri passes the request to Wolfram, Yelp, etc.
At this point we don't know whether Siri passes the translated speech-to-text directly to the 3rd party service. However, I suspect that Siri passes the results of its analysis: "what is mitosis", "Find me a good Greek restaurant in Palo Alto", etc. in an efficient, streamlined request* to Apple's servers. Then, Apple's servers make a high-speed backend request to the desired 3rd-party service. Finally, Apple's servers assemble and encode* the information and returns it to Siri on the device. The request results are decoded/formatted* (if necessary) and displayed by Siri on the iPhone 4S.
6) On the iPhone 4S, Siri delegates text-to-speech translation to built-in iOS routines. Siri, does analysis, delegation and presentation.
* There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through HTML, XML and Web Services.
And we have a pretty good idea which requests are being sent to a remote server when Siri says "Let me think?"
That analysis is probably correct ( except you would send ""what is mitosis"), however it does show that some of the processing is done online. I dont get that "There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through ... Web Services". XML, yes, - slow as molasses= but any communication with a web is tautologically a web service.
But I think the point is that the speech recognition and intent interpretation is local, and the online transactions are just the same ones that you might execute if you were doing it yourself (information lookup, email, text etc.), only maybe done more effectively (in terms of query construction etc.).
I am curious about those claimed efficiency gains though. If they are proprietary transactions with Apple servers, then you could imagine more efficient protocols than http, but if they are dealing with 3rd party web servers then they have no other choices.
That analysis is probably correct ( except you would send ""what is mitosis"), however it does show that some of the processing is done online. I dont get that "There are much more (10-100 x or more) efficient ways of communicating with the web than through ... Web Services". XML, yes, - slow as molasses= but any communication with a web is tautologically a web service.
True!
But web services, as implemented, use the notoriously verbose XML -- so they can be human-readable... even though they are not read by humans in XML form.
Google and Samsung have canceled an event...
[ google_samsung_postpone_phone_launch_event_out_of_respect_for_steve_jobs ][/c]
Why is the name of the article postpone and the name of the article in the forum cancel? I presume it's being postponed, and apparently only the keynote, not the launch as already stated.
BusinessInsider says it's postponed, but the html page name uses 'cancelled'.
they are just waiting so that steve's passing doesn't overshadow the release of ICS and the nexus/prime/whateveritscalled.
'out of respect' my a$$.
they are just waiting so that steve's passing doesn't overshadow the release of ICS and the nexus/prime/whateveritscalled.
Are you suggesting the people in charge at Google and Samsung (who have worked closely with Mr. Jobs for years and have in some cases been mentored by him) weren't affected by his passing?
But I think the point is that the speech recognition and intent interpretation is local, and the online transactions are just the same ones that you might execute if you were doing it yourself (information lookup, email, text etc.), only maybe done more effectively (in terms of query construction etc.).
I am curious about those claimed efficiency gains though. If they are proprietary transactions with Apple servers, then you could imagine more efficient protocols than http, but if they are dealing with 3rd party web servers then they have no other choices.
I suspect it is similar to the Amazon Fire's Silk browser implementation:
1) A single, efficient, relatively low-speed connection from the device to the company's proprietary servers -- as opposed to multiple, inefficient low-speed connections to target servers.
2) The single request can minimize HTTP and XML overhead in the transmitted packet -- it does not need to be human-readable or conform to any, but the most basic TCP/IP protocols.
A single request to a target server usually involves multiple connections -- to download JavaScript scripts, CSS definitions, images, ad banners, animations, Flash, Flash Content, etc. Say, each image results in a single request-response connection that takes 1/2 second or more to turn around -- over and above the time to download the requested image. A web page with 10 images can easily waste several seconds in turning around request/response connections.
3) The company's servers communicate with the target servers via high-speed/bandwidth backbones.
4) The company's servers can cache frequently-requested data and avoid many requests of target servers.
5) The company's servers can aggregate the information from its caches and from requests to the target servers, then create and send an efficient data packet to the device. Again, there is no need for XML or HTML overhead.
So the device and the company's servers have a single, very efficient request/response connection.
The company's servers do all the heavy lifting (as efficiently as possible) gathering, caching and aggregating data from multiple target servers.
The net result to the user is that sometimes Siri takes a moment, or so, longer to do what you ask. But it is not significant enough to degrade the UX.
In fact, Siri usually warns/notifies you of the extra effort: "Let me think about that", "I think I have an answer for you", etc.
You could say that Siri, Silk and the like give the user the "Best of the web" (speed and content) and eliminates the "Worst of the Web" (slowness, ads, distractions, click-bait, etc.).
It will be interesting to see how monitization of the web changes as a result of this change.
And, I suspect that people, who wanted to, could ask Siri: "Show me the New York Times web page" (in all its current glory).