This is easily the most attractive phone (along with the N9) on the market. Props to Nokia for the polycarbonate build, the amoled display with the high PPI gorilla glass, and the higher clocked CPU.
Absolutely beautiful phone. I'm considering buying one for my girlfriend.
My take on raw power is the following: Let's assume that your OS is very resource-efficient and doesn't need the extra power. Let's also assume that the interface is responsive enough. None of this will matter however, when we consider specific usage scenarios or use of third party applications. Games, as you point out, is one thing that will get affected. Multitasking is another. Heavier applications such as constant-on video messengers as Skype, or personal assistant software like Siri, will also not fly on weaker processors.
True, but apps like Siri and Skype would run fine on this. Basically anything that runs on an iPhone 4 would run on this phone.
I suppose the problem is that since dual-core phones are relatively new we haven't seen many applications for the extra processing power. Once these phones become common place we will probably see more apps that are "dual-core only".
I wonder if that point will be before the end of 2012.
Are you willing to give up battery life today for your dual-core CPU? That's the trade-off. V12's suck gas like crazy.
Every function in a portable computer is a compromise to battery life.
Of course it is true that a variety of compromises are always made.
I would give up battery life if the remaining life was sufficient. I expect that smartphones will last all day and into the night, but will need to be charged overnight. And besides, doesn't the i4S have a dual core processor? Apple seems to think that the technology works well, and the underclocking they do is said to be one factor in making the battery life acceptable.
And I don't think that economy minded drivers choose a v-12 engine. The advantages are of little interest to them.
Because Windows today works terribly on tablet computers. Windows 8 will introduce the new Metro interface which has been designed specifically for tablet computers. It will feature a multi-touch interface - not available in previous pen-based tablets.
Hmm...so what you're saying is that multitouch is more of a deal breaker than the ability to do content creation in a tablet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
Because a billion people will eventually upgrade to Windows 8. Windows is the world wide desktop standard. Users will come face-to-face with the new Metro interface. Eventually, they will become comfortable with it. Seeing that same interface on a phone may appeal to them. They'll realize they already know quite a bit about how to use it and what it's capable of.
Ok, I understand your arguments. But consider that if it takes forcing the Metro UI on desktops to get people to accept it on WP7, then I believe it's a sign that Metro is still unnatural, awkward, or unappealing (or all of the above). Consider that iPhone OS (when it was unveiled in 2007) neither looks nor acts like any desktop OS, and yet it still succeeded. Apple didn't have to put iOS UI on the desktops of "a billion people" in order to convince them to buy an iPhone. If Microsoft has to do that to get WP7 selling, then I argue that Metro is already a failure: it isn't compelling enough to make people switch to WP7. That's not my opinion, but rather my reasoning, which you are welcome to point out the flaws in, if you think I don't get it.
No. They didnt ignore it. They released sub-par products to FOOL apple into thinking they were ignoring the market. Right now they're "sleeping giants" , but just you wait and see. In five years they're going to release a music player that finally *blows away* the 2001 original iPod. This will send Apple into a tailspin; flailing to compete with anything they can get to market ASAP.
I'd love to design an ad for Apple. A three your old is given a Windows phone to play with to keep it quiet and the adult says "Here you go, you will be able to use this with your chubby little fingers." the toddler looks at it then toss it over his shoulder and pulls an iPhone out of his diapers and says "Siri, where is mom?"
Never count out MS...they are known for their third iteration being a hit -- windows 3.1 for example...
Windows CE on checkbook size PCs that connected to external modems in the mid 90s was attempt 1,
Windows Pocket PC/Mobile on palm like devices and phones like the Palm Treo was take 2,
Win Phone is try three. the one where they get it right usually...and they have xbox and Zune, which gives them a leg up in gaming, and subscribtion music on every phone, apple cant do the latter,
Of course it is true that a variety of compromises are always made.
I would give up battery life if the remaining life was sufficient. I expect that smartphones will last all day and into the night, but will need to be charged overnight. And besides, doesn't the i4S have a dual core processor? Apple seems to think that the technology works well, and the underclocking they do is said to be one factor in making the battery life acceptable.
And I don't think that economy minded drivers choose a v-12 engine. The advantages are of little interest to them.
There are also a few other things to consider when talking about CPU power:
-Process shrinks account for a big part of power savings; so while power usage may be unmanageable now, it may be completely viable one node down.
-Newer architectures have individual cores aggressively power gated (ie. completely off when unused)
-"Time to idle" - CPUs generally use a lot of power at load, and very little at idle. So for maximum battery life, you want your CPU at idle as much as possible. A dual core CPU may have higher instantaneous power draw @ load, but if it can finish tasks significantly faster and return to an idle quicker than a single core, then it may actually use less power overall.
Nokia will be a good competitor for Apple. They will come out with different phone forms, such as a slider or flip phone. Some people just want a physical keyboard. And the Europeans buy from the Europeans, so this will help Nokia. Competition is good, and keeps Apple innovating. RIM is the big loser here.
Apple has been innovating since 1976, that's all they know how to do, moron.
It all depends on Nokia brand strength. Maybe in Europe and Asia, Nokia still has a strong brand and they could push out 10m WP7 phones a quarter by the sheer force of their brand and manufacturing power.
No way it's the last bullet. They still have Windows 8/9 which can be put in phones in 2013/2014. Everything about MS boils down to Windows and Office. That's the center of MS' universe. I think they will put Windows 8 or its successor on phones, including a version of Office. Not the crap WM Office. Actual MS Office, only with the UI dumbed down for the smaller screen.
I have not had the chance to play with w WinPhone yet. However I think after looking at the screens besides the clunky start screen it might be kind of neat.
I honestly hope that this does end up being a good phone. If Microsoft creates an excellent mobile to home environment interface like Apple has, we might actually have a real competitor to keep things interesting instead of just Droids empty flash with a few basic good ideas.The only reason droid has made it's mark is the number of phones that have been churned out and rushed, only maybe a hand full of these are worth note the rest are worthy of being the free phones you get when you open up a new account with a service provider.
With the windows phone that certainly looks like it's it's own best and not a clone, and with Nokia who did design some good phones back in the day. We might see real creativity enter back into the market instead of just improving what is already there, or just Apple creating and Droid cloning.
I say I welcome smart competition. lets hope this keeps things interesting.
Ok, I understand your arguments. But consider that if it takes forcing the Metro UI on desktops to get people to accept it on WP7, then I believe it's a sign that Metro is still unnatural, awkward, or unappealing (or all of the above).
Look at the growth rate of OSX from the halo effect of the iDevices. OSX is neither unnatural, awkward, or unappealing. All it needed was for people to give it a chance.
I honestly think if normal users could trial a Windows and Android Phone for a couple of weeks each that most users would stick with the Windows Phone at the end of the trial.
Yet in the real world Android is outselling Windows Phone at a rate of something like 25 to 1.
That's weird because we always think of a Mac as a Fisher Price toy for people who know nothing about computers. If Apple put their logo on a piece of dog do-do and sold it for $300 you'd all buy it. Then take it to the nearest Starbucks to try and show it off.
Comments
Absolutely beautiful phone. I'm considering buying one for my girlfriend.
Maybe I should start a meme that goes something like: "the Lumias are just big iPod nano's".
The no-seams look of these phones reminds me of the aluminum iPod nano.
Maybe I should start a meme that goes something like: "the Lumias are just big iPod nano's".
Yeah, except for the whole click wheel, size, screen size, camera, materials, and USB port thing.
Not even close to similar.
My take on raw power is the following: Let's assume that your OS is very resource-efficient and doesn't need the extra power. Let's also assume that the interface is responsive enough. None of this will matter however, when we consider specific usage scenarios or use of third party applications. Games, as you point out, is one thing that will get affected. Multitasking is another. Heavier applications such as constant-on video messengers as Skype, or personal assistant software like Siri, will also not fly on weaker processors.
True, but apps like Siri and Skype would run fine on this. Basically anything that runs on an iPhone 4 would run on this phone.
I suppose the problem is that since dual-core phones are relatively new we haven't seen many applications for the extra processing power. Once these phones become common place we will probably see more apps that are "dual-core only".
I wonder if that point will be before the end of 2012.
Are you willing to give up battery life today for your dual-core CPU? That's the trade-off. V12's suck gas like crazy.
Every function in a portable computer is a compromise to battery life.
Of course it is true that a variety of compromises are always made.
I would give up battery life if the remaining life was sufficient. I expect that smartphones will last all day and into the night, but will need to be charged overnight. And besides, doesn't the i4S have a dual core processor? Apple seems to think that the technology works well, and the underclocking they do is said to be one factor in making the battery life acceptable.
And I don't think that economy minded drivers choose a v-12 engine. The advantages are of little interest to them.
Because Windows today works terribly on tablet computers. Windows 8 will introduce the new Metro interface which has been designed specifically for tablet computers. It will feature a multi-touch interface - not available in previous pen-based tablets.
Hmm...so what you're saying is that multitouch is more of a deal breaker than the ability to do content creation in a tablet?
Because a billion people will eventually upgrade to Windows 8. Windows is the world wide desktop standard. Users will come face-to-face with the new Metro interface. Eventually, they will become comfortable with it. Seeing that same interface on a phone may appeal to them. They'll realize they already know quite a bit about how to use it and what it's capable of.
Ok, I understand your arguments. But consider that if it takes forcing the Metro UI on desktops to get people to accept it on WP7, then I believe it's a sign that Metro is still unnatural, awkward, or unappealing (or all of the above). Consider that iPhone OS (when it was unveiled in 2007) neither looks nor acts like any desktop OS, and yet it still succeeded. Apple didn't have to put iOS UI on the desktops of "a billion people" in order to convince them to buy an iPhone. If Microsoft has to do that to get WP7 selling, then I argue that Metro is already a failure: it isn't compelling enough to make people switch to WP7. That's not my opinion, but rather my reasoning, which you are welcome to point out the flaws in, if you think I don't get it.
No. They didnt ignore it. They released sub-par products to FOOL apple into thinking they were ignoring the market. Right now they're "sleeping giants" , but just you wait and see. In five years they're going to release a music player that finally *blows away* the 2001 original iPod. This will send Apple into a tailspin; flailing to compete with anything they can get to market ASAP.
Go away will you?
I'd love to design an ad for Apple. A three your old is given a Windows phone to play with to keep it quiet and the adult says "Here you go, you will be able to use this with your chubby little fingers." the toddler looks at it then toss it over his shoulder and pulls an iPhone out of his diapers and says "Siri, where is mom?"
Never count out MS...they are known for their third iteration being a hit -- windows 3.1 for example...
Windows CE on checkbook size PCs that connected to external modems in the mid 90s was attempt 1,
Windows Pocket PC/Mobile on palm like devices and phones like the Palm Treo was take 2,
Win Phone is try three. the one where they get it right usually...and they have xbox and Zune, which gives them a leg up in gaming, and subscribtion music on every phone, apple cant do the latter,
No. you are wrong.
Microsoft don't want to compete with Android, do you realise just how much money Android makes for Microsoft in licensing. Fooking miiiiiiilions.
Pleaseeeeee be civil.
Of course it is true that a variety of compromises are always made.
I would give up battery life if the remaining life was sufficient. I expect that smartphones will last all day and into the night, but will need to be charged overnight. And besides, doesn't the i4S have a dual core processor? Apple seems to think that the technology works well, and the underclocking they do is said to be one factor in making the battery life acceptable.
And I don't think that economy minded drivers choose a v-12 engine. The advantages are of little interest to them.
There are also a few other things to consider when talking about CPU power:
-Process shrinks account for a big part of power savings; so while power usage may be unmanageable now, it may be completely viable one node down.
-Newer architectures have individual cores aggressively power gated (ie. completely off when unused)
-"Time to idle" - CPUs generally use a lot of power at load, and very little at idle. So for maximum battery life, you want your CPU at idle as much as possible. A dual core CPU may have higher instantaneous power draw @ load, but if it can finish tasks significantly faster and return to an idle quicker than a single core, then it may actually use less power overall.
Nokia will be a good competitor for Apple. They will come out with different phone forms, such as a slider or flip phone. Some people just want a physical keyboard. And the Europeans buy from the Europeans, so this will help Nokia. Competition is good, and keeps Apple innovating. RIM is the big loser here.
Apple has been innovating since 1976, that's all they know how to do, moron.
... and we will call it the iPhone Performa line... a phone for every personality.
I'd put a "never" on this... but I can see a 4" iPhone Whatever with the 4 and 4S filling in the rest of the gaps.
Apple makes the ecosystem and OS fresh... confusing the clientele with too many multiple size phones aint in its game.
Apple is selling all the iphones they can make. There will be no more new models anytime soon.
If it's not broke don't fix it.
It all depends on Nokia brand strength. Maybe in Europe and Asia, Nokia still has a strong brand and they could push out 10m WP7 phones a quarter by the sheer force of their brand and manufacturing power.
No way it's the last bullet. They still have Windows 8/9 which can be put in phones in 2013/2014. Everything about MS boils down to Windows and Office. That's the center of MS' universe. I think they will put Windows 8 or its successor on phones, including a version of Office. Not the crap WM Office. Actual MS Office, only with the UI dumbed down for the smaller screen.
Nokia will fail. It's not about hardware.
I have not had the chance to play with w WinPhone yet. However I think after looking at the screens besides the clunky start screen it might be kind of neat.
I honestly hope that this does end up being a good phone. If Microsoft creates an excellent mobile to home environment interface like Apple has, we might actually have a real competitor to keep things interesting instead of just Droids empty flash with a few basic good ideas.The only reason droid has made it's mark is the number of phones that have been churned out and rushed, only maybe a hand full of these are worth note the rest are worthy of being the free phones you get when you open up a new account with a service provider.
With the windows phone that certainly looks like it's it's own best and not a clone, and with Nokia who did design some good phones back in the day. We might see real creativity enter back into the market instead of just improving what is already there, or just Apple creating and Droid cloning.
I say I welcome smart competition. lets hope this keeps things interesting.
Microsoft can't they're not a creative company.
Nokia will fail. It's not about hardware.
I remember hearing the same thing about Android... but basically in reverse.
Six months?? I think it's quite obvious right now that it's a total fackin' failure.
There's a Suprise statement on an Apple forum. So when do you actually get into junior high?
Ok, I understand your arguments. But consider that if it takes forcing the Metro UI on desktops to get people to accept it on WP7, then I believe it's a sign that Metro is still unnatural, awkward, or unappealing (or all of the above).
Look at the growth rate of OSX from the halo effect of the iDevices. OSX is neither unnatural, awkward, or unappealing. All it needed was for people to give it a chance.
I honestly think if normal users could trial a Windows and Android Phone for a couple of weeks each that most users would stick with the Windows Phone at the end of the trial.
Yet in the real world Android is outselling Windows Phone at a rate of something like 25 to 1.
That's weird because we always think of a Mac as a Fisher Price toy for people who know nothing about computers. If Apple put their logo on a piece of dog do-do and sold it for $300 you'd all buy it. Then take it to the nearest Starbucks to try and show it off.
iSheep....