I don't get the kind of Apple fans who want them to make profits over market share, and eulogise the iPhones margin's and Apple's profits. Apple should continue with high end ( even higher end) devices, and also go for the low medium end devices. It needs to increase market share, which is what Tim Cook himself points out.
I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.
All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.
All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.
All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
This is an investors forum, in part. In terms of the kind of software available to you, the market share of the platform matters. So the % matters, as it does to Apple.
As for this kind of rhethoric "it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff." - thats generally made by people on forums like this regarding arguments they don't like made on forums like this.
Thats what we are here to discuss. Its also an excuse: When Apple dominates a market there is much crowing, when they start to recede there is much excuse making.
Personally I think they will come back strong this Q. And we will discuss that here. Which is what this forum is for.
I wouldn't put apple at #2 for smartphones just yet. The whole shipped vs sold issue really gives us a vague image of what's really out there. They should just look at profits instead.
Profits and market share are only tangentially related.
This isn't a story directed at stock investors. It is directed at consumers of smartphones, and not towards the owners of these companies.
ISTM that by bringing up the shipped vs sold FUD, you question the veracity of the information presented. Did you look into their methodology?
Profits and market share are only tangentially related.
This isn't a story directed at stock investors. It is directed at consumers of smartphones, and not towards the owners of these companies.
ISTM that by bringing up the shipped vs sold FUD, you question the veracity of the information presented. Did you look into their methodology?
The report does say shipments, however, not sales. That said these are excuses. Apple will probably do 30M this Q and so market share will be a good metric once again, here on AI.
They achieve this because the difference between their cost to manufacture and the price they sell them for is greater than for other manufacturers.
Quote:
I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.
I am confused here. In my view of product development - if you build a superior product / support a superior experience, you get to charge a superior price. If you make superior profits, good for you.
If, on the other hand, your product is virtually indistinguishable from 10 others on the market, well then, your per product margins are likely to be lower.
If you can't turn a nice profit, I don't care how many of them you sell. If you can turn a nice profit and you can maximize your sales point on that curve - then you've done well. Very well. (There is also the effect of not cheapening your brand by dropping your prices to get exceptional volumes - works well once but tends to have a negative impact long term)
The problem with our economy is this quarterly horse race. Are these companies / investors only into the battle, or do they want to win the war? Or is this obsession with quarterly figures the only way these analysts eat?
What would you prefer? Annual financial disclosure to the owners of the companies? No disclosure? Weekly?
I am confused here. In my view of product development - if you build a superior product / support a superior experience, you get to charge a superior price. If you make superior profits, good for you.
If, on the other hand, your product is virtually indistinguishable from 10 others on the market, well then, your per product margins are likely to be lower.
If you can't turn a nice profit, I don't care how many of them you sell. If you can turn a nice profit and you can maximize your sales point on that curve - then you've done well. Very well. (There is also the effect of not cheapening your brand by dropping your prices to get exceptional volumes - works well once but tends to have a negative impact long term)
The thing is - that argument is made by Apple fans ( but only when market share is in decline) but not by Apple, who never mention gross margin outside of financial conference calls where they have to. When Tim Cook gets up on stage he shows graphs of Apple's market share, he doesn't sugar the pill. He shows Apple at a mere 5% of all mobile shipments, and says he wants to go higher as all phones will be smart some day. That means going cheaper.
This doesn't sully Apple's brand because they still have the high end stuff ( similar to iPods).
I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.
The Steve-isms are likely to persist for a few more years. I see ham-handed attempts to distract and confuse here all the time, and I never really knew the origin until I read the new Bio of Steve.
He was masterful at confusing the issue by using words in a bizarre, but not-easily-detected as incorrect manner. People here do the same wordplay, but not very skillfully. Their specious arguments are clearly that. Steve, OTOH, bing a very smart (and very powerful) man, was able to pull it off.
All that can be done is to point out the mistaken use of language - the bullshit use of language will stop eventually, but not very soon.
The Steve-isms are likely to persist for a few more years. I see ham-handed attempts to distract and confuse here all the time, and I never really knew the origin until I read the new Bio of Steve.
He was masterful at confusing the issue by using words in a bizarre, but not-easily-detected as incorrect manner. People here do the same wordplay, but not very skillfully. Their specious arguments are clearly that. Steve, OTOH, bing a very smart (and very powerful) man, was able to pull it off.
All that can be done is to point out the mistaken use of language - the bullshit use of language will stop eventually, but not very soon.
We'll all be plain speakers like Tim Cook some day.
On a contract they all start at £30 and go as high as £70 a month.
Please go away and check your numbers again
P.S.
These are all the latest phones. if you are going to shove an old HTC Desire HD in my face, be sure to get the original selling price, not the reduced price from Amazon nearly a year later
On a contract they all start at £30 and go as high as £70 a month.
Please go away and check your numbers again
P.S.
These are all the latest phones. if you are going to shove an old HTC Desire HD in my face, be sure to get the original selling price, not the reduced price from Amazon nearly a year later
So some android phones are more expensive. The real question is the middle to lower end. Whats the cheapest off contract iPhone ( the 3GS) and whats the cheapest off contract Android device?
So some android phones are more expensive. The real question is the middle to lower end. Whats the cheapest off contract iPhone ( the 3GS) and whats the cheapest off contract Android device?
£319 for a 3GS 8GB sim free.
The android phones vary wildly, but the lowest I've found is £200 (Samsung Galaxy Ace). HTCs start at £300 and go up from there.
Comments
I don't get the kind of Apple fans who want them to make profits over market share, and eulogise the iPhones margin's and Apple's profits. Apple should continue with high end ( even higher end) devices, and also go for the low medium end devices. It needs to increase market share, which is what Tim Cook himself points out.
I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.
All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.
All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
might be as high as 99.9%
I don't understand why people care about bragging rights in marketshare or profits in the first place.
All I care about is the fact that I have an excellent phone that serves its purpose (iPhone 4). The other stuff is of little concern really to the average consumer. In fact, it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff. 95% of iPhone/Android users don't give a ****.
This is an investors forum, in part. In terms of the kind of software available to you, the market share of the platform matters. So the % matters, as it does to Apple.
As for this kind of rhethoric "it's only people on forums like these and investors that care about this kind of stuff." - thats generally made by people on forums like this regarding arguments they don't like made on forums like this.
Thats what we are here to discuss. Its also an excuse: When Apple dominates a market there is much crowing, when they start to recede there is much excuse making.
Personally I think they will come back strong this Q. And we will discuss that here. Which is what this forum is for.
might be as high as 99.9%
if people didn't give a shit there would be much more movement between devices, but Apple users are sticky. So they care about the brand.
That is just pathetic.
Samsung seems to be doing very will with its new Superphones, however.
Apple is behind ZTE? Who the hell is ZTE?
That is just pathetic.
Samsung seems to be doing very will with its new Superphones, however.
ZTE are Chinese. Eventually everything will be Chinese.
I wouldn't put apple at #2 for smartphones just yet. The whole shipped vs sold issue really gives us a vague image of what's really out there. They should just look at profits instead.
Profits and market share are only tangentially related.
This isn't a story directed at stock investors. It is directed at consumers of smartphones, and not towards the owners of these companies.
ISTM that by bringing up the shipped vs sold FUD, you question the veracity of the information presented. Did you look into their methodology?
The whole "apple products cost more" myth is just that, a myth.
Is it also a myth that Android phones cost less?
Profits and market share are only tangentially related.
This isn't a story directed at stock investors. It is directed at consumers of smartphones, and not towards the owners of these companies.
ISTM that by bringing up the shipped vs sold FUD, you question the veracity of the information presented. Did you look into their methodology?
The report does say shipments, however, not sales. That said these are excuses. Apple will probably do 30M this Q and so market share will be a good metric once again, here on AI.
They achieve this because the difference between their cost to manufacture and the price they sell them for is greater than for other manufacturers.
I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.
I am confused here. In my view of product development - if you build a superior product / support a superior experience, you get to charge a superior price. If you make superior profits, good for you.
If, on the other hand, your product is virtually indistinguishable from 10 others on the market, well then, your per product margins are likely to be lower.
If you can't turn a nice profit, I don't care how many of them you sell. If you can turn a nice profit and you can maximize your sales point on that curve - then you've done well. Very well. (There is also the effect of not cheapening your brand by dropping your prices to get exceptional volumes - works well once but tends to have a negative impact long term)
The problem with our economy is this quarterly horse race. Are these companies / investors only into the battle, or do they want to win the war? Or is this obsession with quarterly figures the only way these analysts eat?
What would you prefer? Annual financial disclosure to the owners of the companies? No disclosure? Weekly?
I am confused here. In my view of product development - if you build a superior product / support a superior experience, you get to charge a superior price. If you make superior profits, good for you.
If, on the other hand, your product is virtually indistinguishable from 10 others on the market, well then, your per product margins are likely to be lower.
If you can't turn a nice profit, I don't care how many of them you sell. If you can turn a nice profit and you can maximize your sales point on that curve - then you've done well. Very well. (There is also the effect of not cheapening your brand by dropping your prices to get exceptional volumes - works well once but tends to have a negative impact long term)
The thing is - that argument is made by Apple fans ( but only when market share is in decline) but not by Apple, who never mention gross margin outside of financial conference calls where they have to. When Tim Cook gets up on stage he shows graphs of Apple's market share, he doesn't sugar the pill. He shows Apple at a mere 5% of all mobile shipments, and says he wants to go higher as all phones will be smart some day. That means going cheaper.
This doesn't sully Apple's brand because they still have the high end stuff ( similar to iPods).
I had hoped Steve's reality distortion field would depart with him, but obviously it didn't.
The Steve-isms are likely to persist for a few more years. I see ham-handed attempts to distract and confuse here all the time, and I never really knew the origin until I read the new Bio of Steve.
He was masterful at confusing the issue by using words in a bizarre, but not-easily-detected as incorrect manner. People here do the same wordplay, but not very skillfully. Their specious arguments are clearly that. Steve, OTOH, bing a very smart (and very powerful) man, was able to pull it off.
All that can be done is to point out the mistaken use of language - the bullshit use of language will stop eventually, but not very soon.
The Steve-isms are likely to persist for a few more years. I see ham-handed attempts to distract and confuse here all the time, and I never really knew the origin until I read the new Bio of Steve.
He was masterful at confusing the issue by using words in a bizarre, but not-easily-detected as incorrect manner. People here do the same wordplay, but not very skillfully. Their specious arguments are clearly that. Steve, OTOH, bing a very smart (and very powerful) man, was able to pull it off.
All that can be done is to point out the mistaken use of language - the bullshit use of language will stop eventually, but not very soon.
We'll all be plain speakers like Tim Cook some day.
Check the profit! That is what counts!!
If you were deciding among an XBox, A Wii or a Playstation, would you check the profit? How does that count?
We'll all be plain speakers like Tim Cook some day.
I know very little about Tim Cook. I assume that your comment was sarcastic.
Does Tim Torture the language like Steve used to ? Is he too full of ...? Does he say things he doesn't mean in public forums?
I know very little about Tim Cook. I assume that your comment was sarcastic.
Does Tim Torture the language like Steve used to ? Is he too full of ...? Does he say things he doesn't mean in public forums?
He is a plain speaker, genuinely. I doubt if he is on public forums though.
( I am merely following your logic on what we do - follow the lead of the Apple CEO).
Is it also a myth that Android phones cost less?
Nexus S is £514 on pay as you go.
iPhone 4S is £499 on pay as you go.
Galaxy S II is £549 on pay as you go.
Motorola Razr is £454 on pay as you go.
All RRP, VAT included.
On a contract they all start at £30 and go as high as £70 a month.
Please go away and check your numbers again
P.S.
These are all the latest phones. if you are going to shove an old HTC Desire HD in my face, be sure to get the original selling price, not the reduced price from Amazon nearly a year later
Nexus S is £514 on pay as you go.
iPhone 4S is £499 on pay as you go.
Galaxy S II is £549 on pay as you go.
Motorola Razr is £454 on pay as you go.
All RRP, VAT included.
On a contract they all start at £30 and go as high as £70 a month.
Please go away and check your numbers again
P.S.
These are all the latest phones. if you are going to shove an old HTC Desire HD in my face, be sure to get the original selling price, not the reduced price from Amazon nearly a year later
So some android phones are more expensive. The real question is the middle to lower end. Whats the cheapest off contract iPhone ( the 3GS) and whats the cheapest off contract Android device?
So some android phones are more expensive. The real question is the middle to lower end. Whats the cheapest off contract iPhone ( the 3GS) and whats the cheapest off contract Android device?
£319 for a 3GS 8GB sim free.
The android phones vary wildly, but the lowest I've found is £200 (Samsung Galaxy Ace). HTCs start at £300 and go up from there.