Carrier IQ data logging controversy prompts scrutiny from US Senate

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  • Reply 41 of 98
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post


    It's a carrier issue, not an Android issue.



    As previously stated, just because Google doesn't install it on Android doesn't mean it's not an Android issue. There are very few Nexus phones that make up all Android-based devices so which vendors and carriers have installed the keylogger?



    Also, just because Apple isn't using the keylogger and are very clear in what they monitor and how to opt-out they have an affiliation with Carrier IQ so that makes it an Apple issue as well. They both are victims of association even if they are both on the up and up, but that doesn't mean it's not their issue to deal with. If it wasn't they wouldn't be issuing statements.
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  • Reply 42 of 98
    radjinradjin Posts: 165member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    Is Google the most evil company in the history of the world?











    Probably very close.
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  • Reply 43 of 98
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    It is the majority of Android phones that are diseased and infected.



    according to Eckhart, the spyware is included in most Android phones out there.



    http://gizmodo.com/5863849/your-andr...rything-you-do
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  • Reply 44 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    It is the majority of Android phones that are diseased and infected.



    according to Eckhart, the spyware is included in most Android phones out there.



    http://gizmodo.com/5863849/your-andr...rything-you-do



    With Verizon being the largest Android seller in the US, and stating they do not use Carrier IQ, I find his claim over-reaching at the least. There's no evidence that Carrier IQ is also working with EU or Asian telcos too is there? If not then I don't know how he could claim "most".
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  • Reply 45 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    With Verizon being the largest Android seller in the US, and stating they do not use Carrier IQ, I find his claim over-reaching at the least. There's no evidence that Carrier IQ is also working with EU or Asian telcos too is there? If not then I don't know how he could claim "most".



    It's 140+ million, and that number is from CarrierIQ's website. (Don't know the geographic breakdown of that).



    How many Android phones are out there?
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  • Reply 46 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    As previously stated, just because Google doesn't install it on Android doesn't mean it's not an Android issue. There are very few Nexus phones that make up all Android-based devices so which vendors and carriers have installed the keylogger?



    Also, just because Apple isn't using the keylogger and are very clear in what they monitor and how to opt-out they have an affiliation with Carrier IQ so that makes it an Apple issue as well. They both are victims of association even if they are both on the up and up, but that doesn't mean it's not their issue to deal with. If it wasn't they wouldn't be issuing statements.



    Doesn't the data gathered from the iPhone go to Carrier IQ first, then bundled and compiled for Apple? If I understand how this works, reportedly the software sends logs directly to Carrier IQ, who then gathers and reports the results to the vendor/customer, whether it's HTC, Sprint, Apple or whoever. The data logs don't flow directly to the customer. I think I've got that right, but not certain.



    If so then there would be a question of just what's actually logged, even tho the end-customer, Apple for instance, may claim not to get identifiable info.



    There's lots more to come I'll wager.
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  • Reply 47 of 98
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Doesn't the data gathered from the iPhone go to Carrier IQ first, then bundled and compiled for Apple? If I understand how this works, reportedly the software sends logs directly to Carrier IQ, who then gathers and reports the results to the vendor/customer, whether it's HTC, Sprint, Apple or whoever. The data logs don't flow directly to the customer. I think I've got that right, but not certain.



    If so then there would be a question of just what's actually logged, even tho the end-customer, Apple for instance, may claim not to get identifiable info.



    There's lots more to come I'll wager.



    Of the companies that have used Carrier IQ only Apple has been forthcoming with what is recorded.
    [?] With any diagnostic data sent to Apple, customers must actively opt-in to share this information, and if they do, the data is sent in an anonymous and encrypted form and does not include any personal information. We never recorded keystrokes, messages or any other personal information for diagnostic data and have no plans to ever do so.
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  • Reply 48 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    It's 140+ million, and that number is from CarrierIQ's website. (Don't know the geographic breakdown of that).



    How many Android phones are out there?



    Doesn't that 140 million include iPhones too? If so they would make up a big chunk of that wouldn't they? Apple is one of their customers, perhaps the largest single one. Or rather, was the largest one.
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  • Reply 49 of 98
    lmgslmgs Posts: 63member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 801 View Post


    Well, know you know that Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn. reads this site.

    Welcome Senator, glad to have you.





    I doubt if that moron even knows how to read.... It's obvious this was written by someone on his staff..



    I'm SO glad the government still cares about us little people...



    I guess everything is just running great in DC, and there is nothing more important the senate could be doing..
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  • Reply 50 of 98
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    This is a million times worse than that so-called location-gate that people were making a big deal out of a while ago. That turned out to be not much of an issue, even though certain people tried to slam Apple for it.



    This Carrier IQ stuff records and sends your passwords, your google searches, basically everything!
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  • Reply 51 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Of the companies that have used Carrier IQ only Apple has been forthcoming with what is recorded.
    [?] With any diagnostic data sent to Apple, customers must actively opt-in to share this information, and if they do, the data is sent in an anonymous and encrypted form and does not include any personal information. We never recorded keystrokes, messages or any other personal information for diagnostic data and have no plans to ever do so.



    Is that referring to the data Carrier IQ forwards to Apple, or even the data originally transmitted to Carrier IQ before it's compiled and forwarded to Apple? I don't know that's 100% clear yet.
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  • Reply 52 of 98
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Is that referring to the data Carrier IQ forwards to Apple, or even the data originally transmitted to Carrier IQ before it's compiled and forwarded to Apple? I don't know that's 100% clear yet.



    Maybe, but either way it's not personal data, much less everything you've typed into your device. It's also unclear if the Android-based devices with the keylogger software is sending all the data or if it's anonymous. Do we know the URLs it's sending it to?
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  • Reply 53 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Maybe, but either way it's not personal data, much less everything you've typed into your device. It's also unclear if the Android-based devices with the keylogger software is sending all the data or if it's anonymous. Do we know the URLs it's sending it to?



    I thought I'd seen that mentioned today. IIRC is was to a CarrierIQ addy.
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  • Reply 54 of 98
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,838member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jexus View Post


    The question is if the following above was true, could AT&T customers actually DO anything about it? Doesn't AT&T have that Anti-arbitration clause in the contracts thanks to the supreme court?



    Unknown. But catching the carriers red-handed makes me smile.
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  • Reply 55 of 98
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I thought I'd seen that mentioned today. IIRC is was to a CarrierIQ addy.



    I would think Apple would get its own diagnostic data sent to itself. Clearly anything from Carrier IQ can be altered easily? as we've seen with the level of fluctuation between vendors and carriers.
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  • Reply 56 of 98
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by agramonte View Post


    Verizon already said that they do not use Carrier IQ - that is the largest Android Block in the USA



    So if Verizon is not using CarrierIQ, then are they using something else?



    The wording of their statements does not rule out that possibility, in fact their statement indicates they run similar programs:-



    Quote:

    “Any report that Verizon Wireless uses Carrier IQ is patently false,” Verizon Wireless spokesperson Jeffrey Nelson said in an email. In an email follow-up, spokeswoman Debra Lewis elaborated. “We did recently notify customers about new privacy programs; we were transparent about how customer information will be used and gave clear choices to customers about whether they want to participate in these programs,” she said. “Carrier IQ is not involved in these programs.



    Source



    Microsoft and Nokia have been disingenuous, they have not stated whether the software carriers add to their phones contains software of this type.



    Quote:

    Nokia also categorically denied that the tracking software is used in its devices. Spokesperson Mark Durrant said:



    “CarrierIQ does not ship products for any Nokia devices, so reports that they have been found on Nokia phones are wrong”.



    In a statement sent to ZDNet columnist Mary Jo Foley last night, Microsoft stated that: “The Windows Phone operating system does not include the Carrier IQ software”



    Source



    On a side note here is an example of how to write an unbelievably biased article.
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  • Reply 57 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    By the way, for those of you curious about what Carrier IQ claims to offer, the website link is here:

    http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm



    Worth a read.
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  • Reply 58 of 98
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Doesn't that 140 million include iPhones too? If so they would make up a big chunk of that wouldn't they? Apple is one of their customers, perhaps the largest single one. Or rather, was the largest one.



    How many iPhones would that be? Since it's gone from most devices using iOS 5.0 and that OS is used going back to the 3GS is that really a lot os phones that are using it? Either way, that number does make it seem like Carrier IQ is almost exclusively in the US since we know AT&T, Sprint, HTC, Samsung and Apple are customers in some regard. So which is the carrier(s) and/or vendor(s) that is keylogging? That's what I want to know.
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  • Reply 59 of 98
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    I was watching a video of somebody showing what it tracks and they even know when you turn your volume up and down.



    On Android of course, as this doesn't apply to iOS.
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  • Reply 60 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    How many iPhones would that be? Since it's gone from most devices using iOS 5.0 and that OS is used going back to the 3GS is that really a lot os phones that are using it? Either way, that number does make it seem like Carrier IQ is almost exclusively in the US since we know AT&T, Sprint, HTC, Samsung and Apple are customers in some regard. So which is the carrier(s) and/or vendor(s) that is keylogging? That's what I want to know.







    Actually Apple said "We stopped supporting CarrierIQ with iOS 5 in most of our products", not most of their individual devices. Two different things. I would suspect that Apple is still using it in the 4S for diagnostics, being that it's a new device with a few bugs here and there that still need quashing.



    There's another researcher who claims there's no "keylogging" in the manner we think of it. Dan Rosenberg writes that "CarrierIQ does a lot of bad things. It's a potential risk to user privacy, and users should be given the ability to opt out of it.



    But people need to recognize that there's a big difference between recording events like keystrokes and HTTPS URLs to a debugging buffer (which is pretty bad by itself), and actually collecting, storing, and transmitting this data to carriers (which doesn't happen). After reverse engineering CarrierIQ myself, I have seen no evidence that they are collecting anything more than what they've publicly claimed: anonymized metrics data. There's a big difference between "look, it does something when I press a key" and "it's sending all my keystrokes to the carrier!". Based on what I've seen, there is no code in CarrierIQ that actually records keystrokes for data collection purposes. Of course, the fact that there are hooks in these events suggests that future versions may abuse this type of functionality, and CIQ should be held accountable and be under close scrutiny so that this type of privacy invasion does not occur. But all the recent noise on this is mostly unfounded.



    There are plenty of reasons to be upset about CIQ, but please don't jump to conclusions based on incomplete evidence."




    CBS has an recently updated story too, with responses from TMobile, Sprint, RIM and others.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505124_1...id-smartphone/



    Almost refreshing to have a story other than Samsung or Apple legal news.



    EDIT: IMHO, within three weeks this will be a largely forgotten issue.
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