Screw the little guy. I do not believe in standing up for the little guy. I believe in standing up for the guy who happens to be right. And very often, the little guy is not right.
I didn't like the previous poster editing my post because I thought it misrepresented what I wrote. So you immediatly do the same thing. Cute. It's a d!ck move, but I guess that doesn't surprise me coming from you.
Screw the little guy. I do not believe in standing up for the little guy. I believe in standing up for the guy who happens to be right. And very often, the little guy is not right.
That's right.
Stand up for the little guy when he's a little right. But if the little guy is a little wrong, then it's right not to stand up for him but to stand ON him.
Changing the wording of a petition after signatures have been added is as unethical as anything they're petitioning against. What if they changed the wording to 'all those signed below give us full access to their bank account information'?
Using 'Isopropanol' instead of 'rubbing alcohol' reminds me of an old 'The Man Show' bit where Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel asked for signatures on a petition to end women's suffrage. It was amazing how many people signed.
Using 'Isopropanol' instead of 'rubbing alcohol' reminds me of an old 'The Man Show' bit where Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel asked for signatures on a petition to end women's suffrage. It was amazing how many people signed.
Penn & Teller once went around to a bunch of hippies, green activists and other ignorant people and they got a bunch of them to sign a petition banning H2O.
Some of these people behind these movements, clearly need something responsible and constructive in their life. My standard suggestion is.....get a job, make sure your parents are reimbursed for the years of sacrifice they went through to send you to school. Next, start concentrating locally, on things you CAN make a difference in. Volunteer at community centers, Tutor, deliver meals on wheels, etc etc.
Can you tell I have a short fuse with these folks? IF you don't like Apple's products (or the many other companies who have their products produced by the same companies), don't buy them!
Apple could really wow the world, turning this publicity stunt to their favor: just promise to go BACK IN TIME to make the changes demanded by the petition. And then show that the evidence exists that they have actually done so! Very impressive.
I hope these protesters are heavily promoting a list of all the companies worse than Apple... you know, the ones benefitting when someone boycotts Apple products.
(And that really is happening: I’ve met people who wanted an iPhone but are choosing OTHER Chinese-made electronics instead, because Apple is supposedly the one not fixing the problems. Is there some planned stock manipulation here or what? Astroturfing by competitors?)
The problems are real—which is why you don’t attack those solving them, while giving a free pass to the worst offenders! (Including whole other industries, clothing etc.)
As for claiming people signed something when they actually signed something else... well, who cares about truth anyway... surely not “journalists” who fan the flames to sell our aggregated personal info to advertisers...
If Apple decides to make a case out of this, this might cost SomeOfF&&kngThem.org some billion $!
their websites states they base their petitions on 'news reports'. News reports!
Like their first anti apple petition was based on the notorious NYT anti apple hit piece, the article which 'sources' immediately wrote open letters to the paper to refute statements attributed to them.
They made all kinds of statements like child slaves in Foxconn etc and then when the FLA stated that the factory is better than the norm and ABC finds no children working there they start an anti FLA anti ABC smear campaign.
Their 'poison killing workes' now found to be rubbing alcohol is another indication of their crap.
They are hit whores who highlight apple as hiting Apple gets them publicity and it's good for their business and it is a 'business'-- 'Donate' on the website is as prominent as 'Petition'. PCs had 90% market share for years in the same or (according to the Chinese themselves) worse factories than Apple's. Go try to find Lenovo's audit disclosures. Where's sumofus dozens of petitons against Acer, Asus , Dell etc. ?
somebody should start an organization to petition against people like SumofUs.
This whole thing suddenly reminded me of those email chain letters people insist on forwarding to all their friends. Usually some tear jerker story about a poor soul who .....xyz.
Do we need a Snopes.com for TV and real life now ? \
These are the NGOs. People are working for ngos as a career. They prey on many idiots and uninformed people among us. They will attack any government, company, or nation. Egypt has noticed this and taking action toward the ngos. But any weaker government, company, or nation many crumple because of them. The stronger will survive like US. This is why US welcomes ngos. Unfortunately this time they choose to attack Apple. They do not know Apple is different than any other government, company, or nation. And this is why Apple has become the most valuable company. Many people are scratching their head and could not understand. I think Apple will make the ngos suffers their biggest setback this time.
Great post. Very very interesting food for thought, people.
This is what happens as a result of society allowing negative campaigning in election campaigns - the people employed during the election cycle to sensationalise and spread mistruths and half truths then look for ways to apply their dishonest methods to other sectors. In the UK they earned a lot of money during the recent AV referendum campaign. Before that in the Conservatives election campaign. In the US though, this reaches a new low of lies and slander that someone should sue them for. TBH there should be a prison sentence for publishing lies.
Another great post. That makes at least three people who have a grasp of this.
These petitions are not about any concrete attempts to change anything at all. They are just about making North Americans feel less guilty about their lifestyle, or superior to their neighbours who perhaps haven't signed them. They are absolutely idiotic on many levels.
My take is that these activists aren't the Chinese making demands; they are American activists who want to...what? Solve China's socio-economic problems? I don't think so. These activists find it easier to pressure Apple, by proxy, than to actually deal with the labor issues in other countries. For things to really change, the Chinese will have to drive it, and that will require their activists to introduce new ideas into their culture, such as labor unions, workplace safety regulations, and worker rights. Petition drives will not fix the real problem. Neither will Apple from afar.
I hope these protesters are heavily promoting a list of all the companies worse than Apple... you know, the ones benefitting when someone boycotts Apple products.
(And that really is happening: I?ve met people who wanted an iPhone but are choosing OTHER Chinese-made electronics instead, because Apple is supposedly the one not fixing the problems. Is there some planned stock manipulation here or what? Astroturfing by competitors?)
The problems are real?which is why you don?t attack those solving them, while giving a free pass to the worst offenders! (Including whole other industries, clothing etc.)
As for claiming people signed something when they actually signed something else... well, who cares about truth anyway... surely not ?journalists? who fan the flames to sell our aggregated personal info to advertisers...
Very well said, nagromme. I am what people may call a "lefty", and I find SumOfUs etc's actions/campaign to be disingenuous and deplorable. Along with ESPN's 'feature' from a week or two back, I might add. I am all for worker's rights and improving lives and working conditions for people in third world countries, but the way that these organisations have gone about this witch hunt is duplicitous, selective and shows an absolute ignorance of the cultural/political/economic/social situation in China. I can't but help but question their true intent.
What we are seeing is the fruit of combining slacktivism with politics. Technology has made it easier to *support* or *sign* up for a cause. Simply click Like on a Facebook page and suddenly you feel good about yourself. But most people such as this SumOfUs group are not doing their homework to learn the real facts from fiction.
There may be real issues here that need addressing. Apple may well be culpable or complicit. But we will never know for sure, given how the situation is devolving and becoming contaminated by politics and slacktivism.
Agree. And maybe there's more than just a little whiff of cultural imperialism as well.
As in "We're Westerners. We want Chinese to be more like us."
Indeed. As an American living and teaching in China, I am embarrassed, as well as outraged at the sheer ignorance and arrogance of many of my fellow Americans. Clueless twits!
I'm all for speaking up for people with no voice, and factory workers in China definitely fit the bill there. But having a petition with its facts so wrong, and then changing the wording after they signed it is scummy as hell. Stupid SumofBitches.
Wrong! Chinese workers do in fact have a voice and have used it repeatedly. Contrary to popular belief, there are 10's of thousands of mass protests every year in China, including factory workers complaining about work conditions. Ultimately, these workers have the largest voice of all as they can simply quit their job, walk down the street, and be hired immediately at another company as there is a growing labor shortage in the coastal cities, and employers are having a hard time finding good workers. One of the biggest economic concerns in China right now is the fact that wages are rising so rapidly. It is American ignorance and arrogance that the real issues are not understood when it comes to China. It is dishonest, ignorant sensationalism that is driving this story as it relates to Apple.
These people lie whenever they speak, changing there petition lol doesnt supprise me they got caught lying and now back peddling, they could not tell the truth because it does not fit with the monster they built in the press.
Comments
1500 people in the U.S. alone drowned last year in that shit!
What other nefarious substances are they hiding from us?
Okay, but don't anybody be wearing anything made with cheap foreign labor!
It's sometimes difficult to tell what was made where these days.
You better go naked - just to cover your asses.
Wait a minute.
That's not going to work.
Screw the little guy. I do not believe in standing up for the little guy. I believe in standing up for the guy who happens to be right. And very often, the little guy is not right.
I didn't like the previous poster editing my post because I thought it misrepresented what I wrote. So you immediatly do the same thing. Cute. It's a d!ck move, but I guess that doesn't surprise me coming from you.
Screw the little guy. I do not believe in standing up for the little guy. I believe in standing up for the guy who happens to be right. And very often, the little guy is not right.
That's right.
Stand up for the little guy when he's a little right. But if the little guy is a little wrong, then it's right not to stand up for him but to stand ON him.
I [...] like the [...] d!ck [...] coming from you.
Like this?
Like this?
Something like that, yes.
Although I should also mention that I usually use flowers and maybe a scented candle in addition to my smooth talking.
Using 'Isopropanol' instead of 'rubbing alcohol' reminds me of an old 'The Man Show' bit where Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel asked for signatures on a petition to end women's suffrage. It was amazing how many people signed.
Using 'Isopropanol' instead of 'rubbing alcohol' reminds me of an old 'The Man Show' bit where Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel asked for signatures on a petition to end women's suffrage. It was amazing how many people signed.
Penn & Teller once went around to a bunch of hippies, green activists and other ignorant people and they got a bunch of them to sign a petition banning H2O.
Can you tell I have a short fuse with these folks? IF you don't like Apple's products (or the many other companies who have their products produced by the same companies), don't buy them!
Apple could really wow the world, turning this publicity stunt to their favor: just promise to go BACK IN TIME to make the changes demanded by the petition. And then show that the evidence exists that they have actually done so! Very impressive.
I hope these protesters are heavily promoting a list of all the companies worse than Apple... you know, the ones benefitting when someone boycotts Apple products.
(And that really is happening: I’ve met people who wanted an iPhone but are choosing OTHER Chinese-made electronics instead, because Apple is supposedly the one not fixing the problems. Is there some planned stock manipulation here or what? Astroturfing by competitors?)
The problems are real—which is why you don’t attack those solving them, while giving a free pass to the worst offenders! (Including whole other industries, clothing etc.)
As for claiming people signed something when they actually signed something else... well, who cares about truth anyway... surely not “journalists” who fan the flames to sell our aggregated personal info to advertisers...
If Apple decides to make a case out of this, this might cost SomeOfF&&kngThem.org some billion $!
the ptptpfaep? I'm in!
lets start a petition to petition the petitioners for an ethical petition.
+1.
sumofus is just crap.
their websites states they base their petitions on 'news reports'. News reports!
Like their first anti apple petition was based on the notorious NYT anti apple hit piece, the article which 'sources' immediately wrote open letters to the paper to refute statements attributed to them.
They made all kinds of statements like child slaves in Foxconn etc and then when the FLA stated that the factory is better than the norm and ABC finds no children working there they start an anti FLA anti ABC smear campaign.
Their 'poison killing workes' now found to be rubbing alcohol is another indication of their crap.
They are hit whores who highlight apple as hiting Apple gets them publicity and it's good for their business and it is a 'business'-- 'Donate' on the website is as prominent as 'Petition'. PCs had 90% market share for years in the same or (according to the Chinese themselves) worse factories than Apple's. Go try to find Lenovo's audit disclosures. Where's sumofus dozens of petitons against Acer, Asus , Dell etc. ?
somebody should start an organization to petition against people like SumofUs.
This whole thing suddenly reminded me of those email chain letters people insist on forwarding to all their friends. Usually some tear jerker story about a poor soul who .....xyz.
Do we need a Snopes.com for TV and real life now ?
These are the NGOs. People are working for ngos as a career. They prey on many idiots and uninformed people among us. They will attack any government, company, or nation. Egypt has noticed this and taking action toward the ngos. But any weaker government, company, or nation many crumple because of them. The stronger will survive like US. This is why US welcomes ngos. Unfortunately this time they choose to attack Apple. They do not know Apple is different than any other government, company, or nation. And this is why Apple has become the most valuable company. Many people are scratching their head and could not understand. I think Apple will make the ngos suffers their biggest setback this time.
Great post. Very very interesting food for thought, people.
This is what happens as a result of society allowing negative campaigning in election campaigns - the people employed during the election cycle to sensationalise and spread mistruths and half truths then look for ways to apply their dishonest methods to other sectors. In the UK they earned a lot of money during the recent AV referendum campaign. Before that in the Conservatives election campaign. In the US though, this reaches a new low of lies and slander that someone should sue them for. TBH there should be a prison sentence for publishing lies.
Another great post. That makes at least three people who have a grasp of this.
These petitions are not about any concrete attempts to change anything at all. They are just about making North Americans feel less guilty about their lifestyle, or superior to their neighbours who perhaps haven't signed them. They are absolutely idiotic on many levels.
My take is that these activists aren't the Chinese making demands; they are American activists who want to...what? Solve China's socio-economic problems? I don't think so. These activists find it easier to pressure Apple, by proxy, than to actually deal with the labor issues in other countries. For things to really change, the Chinese will have to drive it, and that will require their activists to introduce new ideas into their culture, such as labor unions, workplace safety regulations, and worker rights. Petition drives will not fix the real problem. Neither will Apple from afar.
I hope these protesters are heavily promoting a list of all the companies worse than Apple... you know, the ones benefitting when someone boycotts Apple products.
(And that really is happening: I?ve met people who wanted an iPhone but are choosing OTHER Chinese-made electronics instead, because Apple is supposedly the one not fixing the problems. Is there some planned stock manipulation here or what? Astroturfing by competitors?)
The problems are real?which is why you don?t attack those solving them, while giving a free pass to the worst offenders! (Including whole other industries, clothing etc.)
As for claiming people signed something when they actually signed something else... well, who cares about truth anyway... surely not ?journalists? who fan the flames to sell our aggregated personal info to advertisers...
Very well said, nagromme. I am what people may call a "lefty", and I find SumOfUs etc's actions/campaign to be disingenuous and deplorable. Along with ESPN's 'feature' from a week or two back, I might add. I am all for worker's rights and improving lives and working conditions for people in third world countries, but the way that these organisations have gone about this witch hunt is duplicitous, selective and shows an absolute ignorance of the cultural/political/economic/social situation in China. I can't but help but question their true intent.
What we are seeing is the fruit of combining slacktivism with politics. Technology has made it easier to *support* or *sign* up for a cause. Simply click Like on a Facebook page and suddenly you feel good about yourself. But most people such as this SumOfUs group are not doing their homework to learn the real facts from fiction.
There may be real issues here that need addressing. Apple may well be culpable or complicit. But we will never know for sure, given how the situation is devolving and becoming contaminated by politics and slacktivism.
It worries me when I agree with stelligent...
Agree. And maybe there's more than just a little whiff of cultural imperialism as well.
As in "We're Westerners. We want Chinese to be more like us."
Indeed. As an American living and teaching in China, I am embarrassed, as well as outraged at the sheer ignorance and arrogance of many of my fellow Americans. Clueless twits!
I'm all for speaking up for people with no voice, and factory workers in China definitely fit the bill there. But having a petition with its facts so wrong, and then changing the wording after they signed it is scummy as hell. Stupid SumofBitches.
Wrong! Chinese workers do in fact have a voice and have used it repeatedly. Contrary to popular belief, there are 10's of thousands of mass protests every year in China, including factory workers complaining about work conditions. Ultimately, these workers have the largest voice of all as they can simply quit their job, walk down the street, and be hired immediately at another company as there is a growing labor shortage in the coastal cities, and employers are having a hard time finding good workers. One of the biggest economic concerns in China right now is the fact that wages are rising so rapidly. It is American ignorance and arrogance that the real issues are not understood when it comes to China. It is dishonest, ignorant sensationalism that is driving this story as it relates to Apple.
Thousands of people die of overexposure to dihydrous monoxide every year. Thousands more die of underexposure to dihydrous monoxide every year.
Holy Sh*t Batman!!! I use dihydrous monoxide (DHMO a.k.a. water) everyday to shallow my ProZac meds.