Anyone here posting that they want to see the end of Nokia have no idea of their history of innovation, or are too blinkered to see it. I'm not a huge fan of WP7, or any mobile OS in particular, I use Macs at home and work bit I'm pretty mobile platform agnostic, and to dismiss Nokia in that manner is like saying you were glad the Beatles broke up, as they had nothing more to offer.
Nokia used to make phones that they KNEW would bomb, simply because they could and should be made, to test boundaries, to promote innovation. Their R&D accounts for the majority of the technology we currently use in our phones and tablets. They promoted and funded open source in Symbian, Maemo, Meego. They have advanced mobile phone camera technology further than any other company by a country mile, and continue to do so with Pureview. That in my book should be applauded. The N900 is still the best phone/tablet I have ever used, or will I believe. (relative to its power and size).
I like the iPhone, and have owned all models but the 4s, I use a new iPad at home, but I could never imagine Apple or MS now releasing a product that was built simply because they knew they could, certain in the knowledge it wouldn't be enormously successful. They are too much about the bottom line. It's incremental updates, tie people in to your platform, milk milk milk. I know it's good business practice, and it's made them both a mint, but to dismiss Nokia's history of innovation and support for (genuine) open source software shows a total lack of historical knowledge. I would love to see Nokia survive and thrive, but I fear even if they do, the Nokia I grew up with and admired is gone. They could do what they did due in part to their position as the No.1 phone manufacturer by a huge margin - I acknowledge that, but there are others in the space now who fall short, there was also a culture of risk taking and openness within the company that I fear has been excised with these cuts and restructuring.
A sad end, even if they do survive. I genuinely hope I am wrong.
Anyone here posting that they want to see the end of Nokia have no idea of their history of innovation, or are too blinkered to see it. [...] to dismiss Nokia in that manner is like saying you were glad the Beatles broke up, as they had nothing more to offer.
I have no idea who you are responding to but there are a couple perspectives one can reasonably take.
I personally want Nokia (and RiM) to come back because those stories are exciting. However, I don't want them to come back just for the sake of coming back. They have to bring something to the table that attracts buyers. You can't survive on pity purchases.
Imagine if I showed you two futures. The one we're in where The Beatles while they were in their prime, and another where they stayed together but ended up adding nothing to music and hurt their band's legacy by continuing to put out poor music (consider McCrtney's solo portfolio).
Going out when you're on top can solidify interest and appeal. We have this with relationships before they get soured over time. I certainly would have preferred if there were no Matrix sequels or Star Wars special editions or prequels. I wanted these, but in retrospect it didn't help their legacy.
Of course, in business this isn't a possibility so back to the original point: Do you want them to continue on if they can't compete in the modern smartphone age?
I have no idea who you are responding to but there are a couple perspectives one can reasonably take.
I personally want Nokia (and RiM) to come back because those stories are exciting. However, I don't want them to come back just for the sake of coming back. They have to bring something to the table that attracts buyers. You can't survive on pity purchases.
Imagine if I showed you two futures. The one we're in where The Beatles while they were in their prime, and another where they stayed together but ended up adding nothing to music and hurt their band's legacy by continuing to put out poor music (consider McCrtney's solo portfolio).
Going out when you're on top can solidify interest and appeal. We have this with relationships before they get soured over time. I certainly would have preferred if there were no Matrix sequels or Star Wars special editions or prequels. I wanted these, but in retrospect it didn't help their legacy.
Of course, in business this isn't a possibility so back to the original point: Do you want them to continue on if they can't compete in the modern smartphone age?
I'm not sure why every time I post you feel the need to enquire as to whom I am responding - that's two in a row - surely a post in a discussion can exist on its own merit?
I see your point however, mine was more of a lament than a wish for Nokia to return to form - I don't think they can exist in their old state, no company could to be fair. Is it worthwhile for them to exist as a pale imitation of their former selves? Did you still not want to see whether Zion would fall or not? Neo's (and the others') final fate? Yes there was Jar Jar, but there was Maul.
If they have to survive using WP7 (which I don't mind, I just think it's more of the same), in order to produce an occasional gem then yes, I would prefer they continued, if only as an echo of past glories, or a salutary lesson for others.
p.s. Good point about McCartney - but he did produce both The Frog Chorus and Live and Let Die - another example.
blah blah... company that deserves more then what has been served lately. ....especially when their not very good...... blah blah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
blah blah ........Their nice..... Their riding a wave now..... now that Mr. Jobs is gone, it's just a wave their riding, nothing more. blah blah
I realize that English may not be your first language, but please learn the difference between "they're" and "their." Also, if you please, "than" and then," while you're at it.
I realize that English may not be your first language, but please learn the difference between "they're" and "their." Also, if you please, "than" and then," while you're at it.
You're barking up the wrong deaf ears.
Anyway, back to the talk about prime numbers. At least they have a future!
p.s. Good point about McCartney - but he did produce both The Frog Chorus and Live and Let Die - another example.
Venus and Mars was great. The original solo McCartney album was followed by Ram, and both are very good and both were very popular. Band on the Run is another classic.
His guitar player in Wings, Denny Laine, was both innovative and precise. He got a great tone.
I'm not sure why every time I post you feel the need to enquire as to whom I am responding - that's two in a row - surely a post in a discussion can exist on its own merit?
It seemed like you had specific posts in mind but I don't recall any such posts suggesting Nokia should die simply because they are Nokia. Therefore, I qualified my post to show that I'm not protecting any such nonsense that I may have overlooked or have forgotten.
This new forum design has made it easier for posters to think they are posting to a specific person when in fact they are not. That Reply button in every...single...post has to go as it does cause a lot of threads to become confusing and disjointed.
I'm just trying to make sure I understand the flow as much as possible so I can comprehend what I'm reading as much as possible. I have few goals on this thread but one is to comprehend the posts I respond to and another is to write in a way that is comprehendible.
Did you still not want to see whether Zion would fall or not? Neo's (and the others') final fate?
There is word of two more films. I'm hopeful they will restore the interest of the first movie.
If they have to survive using WP7 (which I don't mind, I just think it's more of the same), in order to produce an occasional gem then yes, I would prefer they continued, if only as an echo of past glories, or a salutary lesson for others.
People are blaming MS for the downfall of Nokia but that first domino publicly fell the day Apple introduced the iPhone. WP7 was Hail Mary to regain some relevancy. I commend them for swallowing their pride and taking the only reasonable course of action that made sense at the time. I hope they have building out their own mobile OS — much in the same way Samsung is banking off Android right now while developing Bada/Tizen — but it's not looking good.
Even if they and it's a great OS it won't be enough. There has to be a strong development community because you need a strong app store. I'm a huge fan of WinPh7 from a technical and usability standpoint but it's simply not good enough. MS is (again) shooting themselves in the foot with making WP7 incompatible with WP8 as it moves to the NT kernel. I can see the long term benefit of that but they are giving a big FU to all the developers who have supported WP7. That doesn't bode well for its future success.
Venus and Mars was great. The original solo McCartney album was followed by Ram, and both are very good and both were very popular. Band on the Run is another classic.
His guitar player in Wings, Denny Laine, was both innovative and precise. He got a great tone.
Maybe the OP just didn't like the genre?
What about his last six albums? I think the point is that for every gem, there were ten loads of balls.
Not overwhelmingly, but I do like the mentions you and Scaramanga89 made. But would those tracks have been great Beatles tracks had they been written by McCartney for the The Beatles or are they only great McCartney tracks? One might ask "Does it make a difference?" to which I would respond "Yes!"
People are blaming MS for the downfall of Nokia but that first domino publicly fell the day Apple introduced the iPhone. WP7 was Hail Mary to regain some relevancy. I commend them for swallowing their pride and taking the only reasonable course of action that made sense at the time. I hope they have building out their own mobile OS — much in the same way Samsung is banking off Android right now while developing Bada/Tizen — but it's not looking good.
Even if they and it's a great OS it won't be enough. There has to be a strong development community because you need a strong app store. I'm a huge fan of WinPh7 from a technical and usability standpoint but it's simply not good enough. MS is (again) shooting themselves in the foot with making WP7 incompatible with WP8 as it moves to the NT kernel. I can see the long term benefit of that but they are giving a big FU to all the developers who have supported WP7. That doesn't bode well for its future success.
I agree about the reply button, needs work. I was just posting on the subject itself, and the general vibe from some posters.
If they make another two movies I hope they do a Batman and just ignore the second two. Hard to see how it can all tie in though.
I don't blame MS at all, I think its the only shot Nokia had. I think Elop's burning platform memo was a disaster, Symbian would have kept them afloat for a lot longer if that had never seen the light of day, but he's not the trojan horse some claim. All the people clamouring for Nokia to adopt Android must have no idea how small the margins on an Android phone must be.
I like WP7 too, best mail client going, I have gone back and forth to it from webOS/iOS/Android and currently am back using an E7 running Belle - which is revelation compared to what it shipped with. If Nokia could have released Belle with the N8 then perhaps they would have bought more time, but they always needed a new OS.
I've owned an N9 (Meego) since sale, and will keep it because it's just so unique, but it's miles away from prime time as well. Maemo 5 on the N900 wasn't far off, but they got sidetracked by infighting and the Intel deal, so I hope something good can be made of it through Tizen with Samsung.
On a tangent, this reminds me of how Bill Gates wrote that being able to factor large prime numbers would be a huge advance in mathematics in his book "The Road Ahead". Think about that statement for a minute. I'm fairly sure he was serious. Hopefully someone fixed it in subsequent printings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Jaw drop!!! What is wrong with Bill Gates' comments on factoring large prime numbers?
Factoring a prime number is a trivial operation. Despite what Bill Gates thinks, I don't think factoring large prime numbers would be a big advance in mathematics.
OTOH, computing a prime number is harder. An efficient way to do that would be a big advance.
On a tangent, this reminds me of how Bill Gates wrote that being able to factor large prime numbers would be a huge advance in mathematics in his book "The Road Ahead".
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
LOL. Your own post proves your point.
Explain what a 'tangency' has to do with the point you're making?
Add: /s
tangent |?tanj?nt|
noun
2 a completely different line of thought or action: he quickly went off on a tangent about wrestling.
"Despite being a major player in Microsoft's new Windows Phone platform initiative, which some analysts believe will hold more market share than Apple's iPhone by 2016,"........
So who are these analysts and what makes them believe this is going to happen?
Oh wait I know,,,,,
The fact that MShit does have a real phone available in the middle of 2012 is a big clue that they are going to beat Apple by 2016.
Wow - who but a bunch of Wall Street Morons could have come up with that one.
I love analysts - the word starts with "anal" - need I say more?
It is both a blessing and a curse for Apple. It depends on the customer.
Apple seems (to me) to be going after the customers who prefer one simple way to do relatively simple things, like acquire new apps and locate them on the device. Apple seems to figure that there is a huge market for this sort of style of device. So far, they seem to be correct. And so far, there is still a HUGE untapped market consisting of this type of customer.
That being said, for a variety of reasons, many more people buy an Android phone than buy an iPhone. With tablets, for some reason, the proportions are reversed. Some feel that is due to pricing considerations, but I'm not convinced that anybody really understands all of the reasons for the phenomenon.
I think that if Apple continues to offer devices which are easy to use, they will attract and retain many, many customers in the medium run. I have no idea what will happen in the long run,. I don't think that anybody can predict the long run, given the increasing pace of technological innovation.
And that's perfectly fine! Apple is currently losing in the "who sells the most phones" race.... but they're picking up steam in the "maximizing profit and sustainability" race. One of those might actually be more important than the other :-)
If we're talking about unit sales... Apple has certainly dominated in MP3 players and tablets. The same can't be said for their efforts in the phone and computer markets.... but I don't think they're in any kind of danger. Samsung sold more phones than Apple last quarter... but I don't think Apple will be waving a white flag anytime soon.
Apple has really only had one philosophy for what a phone should be... it must be easy to use. And they only make computers in the $1000+ category... another daring choice.
But you're right... there is a market for that kind of stuff. Apple will have an audience for quite some time.
2 a completely different line of thought or action: he quickly went off on a tangent about wrestling.
Uh uh. It would appear you missed the point of my post. If you really wanted to be math-y about "a completely different line of thought or action" the word you would be searching for is "orthogonal" to, not "tangent" to.
Be that as it may, I was simply suggesting that the original poster who said "doing a 360" was using a colloquial reference that just about anyone -- except, apparently, the snarky guy who took off on him about his and America's math knowledge, and to whom I was responding -- reading his post understood.
Many such colloquial references use lousy math concepts (including the one you cite, which you obviously did not realize).
I still have and old Nokia 6010 from T Mobile. Got it in 2005 just after Katrina hit here in New Orleans. They gave them away...prepaid time, free cards too.
Still works, still has time on it. Bottom of the draw, took it out charged it up cool. Just basic phone but save my butt. Course not the same as the iPhone.
Comments
Anyone here posting that they want to see the end of Nokia have no idea of their history of innovation, or are too blinkered to see it. I'm not a huge fan of WP7, or any mobile OS in particular, I use Macs at home and work bit I'm pretty mobile platform agnostic, and to dismiss Nokia in that manner is like saying you were glad the Beatles broke up, as they had nothing more to offer.
Nokia used to make phones that they KNEW would bomb, simply because they could and should be made, to test boundaries, to promote innovation. Their R&D accounts for the majority of the technology we currently use in our phones and tablets. They promoted and funded open source in Symbian, Maemo, Meego. They have advanced mobile phone camera technology further than any other company by a country mile, and continue to do so with Pureview. That in my book should be applauded. The N900 is still the best phone/tablet I have ever used, or will I believe. (relative to its power and size).
I like the iPhone, and have owned all models but the 4s, I use a new iPad at home, but I could never imagine Apple or MS now releasing a product that was built simply because they knew they could, certain in the knowledge it wouldn't be enormously successful. They are too much about the bottom line. It's incremental updates, tie people in to your platform, milk milk milk. I know it's good business practice, and it's made them both a mint, but to dismiss Nokia's history of innovation and support for (genuine) open source software shows a total lack of historical knowledge. I would love to see Nokia survive and thrive, but I fear even if they do, the Nokia I grew up with and admired is gone. They could do what they did due in part to their position as the No.1 phone manufacturer by a huge margin - I acknowledge that, but there are others in the space now who fall short, there was also a culture of risk taking and openness within the company that I fear has been excised with these cuts and restructuring.
A sad end, even if they do survive. I genuinely hope I am wrong.
I personally want Nokia (and RiM) to come back because those stories are exciting. However, I don't want them to come back just for the sake of coming back. They have to bring something to the table that attracts buyers. You can't survive on pity purchases.
Imagine if I showed you two futures. The one we're in where The Beatles while they were in their prime, and another where they stayed together but ended up adding nothing to music and hurt their band's legacy by continuing to put out poor music (consider McCrtney's solo portfolio).
Going out when you're on top can solidify interest and appeal. We have this with relationships before they get soured over time. I certainly would have preferred if there were no Matrix sequels or Star Wars special editions or prequels. I wanted these, but in retrospect it didn't help their legacy.
Of course, in business this isn't a possibility so back to the original point: Do you want them to continue on if they can't compete in the modern smartphone age?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I have no idea who you are responding to but there are a couple perspectives one can reasonably take.
I personally want Nokia (and RiM) to come back because those stories are exciting. However, I don't want them to come back just for the sake of coming back. They have to bring something to the table that attracts buyers. You can't survive on pity purchases.
Imagine if I showed you two futures. The one we're in where The Beatles while they were in their prime, and another where they stayed together but ended up adding nothing to music and hurt their band's legacy by continuing to put out poor music (consider McCrtney's solo portfolio).
Going out when you're on top can solidify interest and appeal. We have this with relationships before they get soured over time. I certainly would have preferred if there were no Matrix sequels or Star Wars special editions or prequels. I wanted these, but in retrospect it didn't help their legacy.
Of course, in business this isn't a possibility so back to the original point: Do you want them to continue on if they can't compete in the modern smartphone age?
I'm not sure why every time I post you feel the need to enquire as to whom I am responding - that's two in a row - surely a post in a discussion can exist on its own merit?
I see your point however, mine was more of a lament than a wish for Nokia to return to form - I don't think they can exist in their old state, no company could to be fair. Is it worthwhile for them to exist as a pale imitation of their former selves? Did you still not want to see whether Zion would fall or not? Neo's (and the others') final fate? Yes there was Jar Jar, but there was Maul.
If they have to survive using WP7 (which I don't mind, I just think it's more of the same), in order to produce an occasional gem then yes, I would prefer they continued, if only as an echo of past glories, or a salutary lesson for others.
p.s. Good point about McCartney - but he did produce both The Frog Chorus and Live and Let Die - another example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
blah blah... company that deserves more then what has been served lately. ....especially when their not very good...... blah blah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
blah blah ........Their nice..... Their riding a wave now..... now that Mr. Jobs is gone, it's just a wave their riding, nothing more. blah blah
I realize that English may not be your first language, but please learn the difference between "they're" and "their." Also, if you please, "than" and then," while you're at it.
You're welcome.
You're barking up the wrong deaf ears.
Anyway, back to the talk about prime numbers. At least they have a future!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89
p.s. Good point about McCartney - but he did produce both The Frog Chorus and Live and Let Die - another example.
Venus and Mars was great. The original solo McCartney album was followed by Ram, and both are very good and both were very popular. Band on the Run is another classic.
His guitar player in Wings, Denny Laine, was both innovative and precise. He got a great tone.
Maybe the OP just didn't like the genre?
This new forum design has made it easier for posters to think they are posting to a specific person when in fact they are not. That Reply button in every...single...post has to go as it does cause a lot of threads to become confusing and disjointed.
I'm just trying to make sure I understand the flow as much as possible so I can comprehend what I'm reading as much as possible. I have few goals on this thread but one is to comprehend the posts I respond to and another is to write in a way that is comprehendible.
There is word of two more films. I'm hopeful they will restore the interest of the first movie.
People are blaming MS for the downfall of Nokia but that first domino publicly fell the day Apple introduced the iPhone. WP7 was Hail Mary to regain some relevancy. I commend them for swallowing their pride and taking the only reasonable course of action that made sense at the time. I hope they have building out their own mobile OS — much in the same way Samsung is banking off Android right now while developing Bada/Tizen — but it's not looking good.
Even if they and it's a great OS it won't be enough. There has to be a strong development community because you need a strong app store. I'm a huge fan of WinPh7 from a technical and usability standpoint but it's simply not good enough. MS is (again) shooting themselves in the foot with making WP7 incompatible with WP8 as it moves to the NT kernel. I can see the long term benefit of that but they are giving a big FU to all the developers who have supported WP7. That doesn't bode well for its future success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
Venus and Mars was great. The original solo McCartney album was followed by Ram, and both are very good and both were very popular. Band on the Run is another classic.
His guitar player in Wings, Denny Laine, was both innovative and precise. He got a great tone.
Maybe the OP just didn't like the genre?
What about his last six albums? I think the point is that for every gem, there were ten loads of balls.
Not overwhelmingly, but I do like the mentions you and Scaramanga89 made. But would those tracks have been great Beatles tracks had they been written by McCartney for the The Beatles or are they only great McCartney tracks? One might ask "Does it make a difference?" to which I would respond "Yes!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
People are blaming MS for the downfall of Nokia but that first domino publicly fell the day Apple introduced the iPhone. WP7 was Hail Mary to regain some relevancy. I commend them for swallowing their pride and taking the only reasonable course of action that made sense at the time. I hope they have building out their own mobile OS — much in the same way Samsung is banking off Android right now while developing Bada/Tizen — but it's not looking good.
Even if they and it's a great OS it won't be enough. There has to be a strong development community because you need a strong app store. I'm a huge fan of WinPh7 from a technical and usability standpoint but it's simply not good enough. MS is (again) shooting themselves in the foot with making WP7 incompatible with WP8 as it moves to the NT kernel. I can see the long term benefit of that but they are giving a big FU to all the developers who have supported WP7. That doesn't bode well for its future success.
I agree about the reply button, needs work. I was just posting on the subject itself, and the general vibe from some posters.
If they make another two movies I hope they do a Batman and just ignore the second two. Hard to see how it can all tie in though.
I don't blame MS at all, I think its the only shot Nokia had. I think Elop's burning platform memo was a disaster, Symbian would have kept them afloat for a lot longer if that had never seen the light of day, but he's not the trojan horse some claim. All the people clamouring for Nokia to adopt Android must have no idea how small the margins on an Android phone must be.
I like WP7 too, best mail client going, I have gone back and forth to it from webOS/iOS/Android and currently am back using an E7 running Belle - which is revelation compared to what it shipped with. If Nokia could have released Belle with the N8 then perhaps they would have bought more time, but they always needed a new OS.
I've owned an N9 (Meego) since sale, and will keep it because it's just so unique, but it's miles away from prime time as well. Maemo 5 on the N900 wasn't far off, but they got sidetracked by infighting and the Intel deal, so I hope something good can be made of it through Tizen with Samsung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad
Hmmm, RIM, NOKIA, Microsoft all laughed at Apple back in 2007. Wow, tables have turned. 360!...
Shouldn't that be 180 degrees?
Turning the tables over 360 degrees isn't really a big change
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot
On a tangent, this reminds me of how Bill Gates wrote that being able to factor large prime numbers would be a huge advance in mathematics in his book "The Road Ahead". Think about that statement for a minute. I'm fairly sure he was serious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Jaw drop!!! What is wrong with Bill Gates' comments on factoring large prime numbers?
Factoring a prime number is a trivial operation. Despite what Bill Gates thinks, I don't think factoring large prime numbers would be a big advance in mathematics.
OTOH, computing a prime number is harder. An efficient way to do that would be a big advance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot
On a tangent, this reminds me of how Bill Gates wrote that being able to factor large prime numbers would be a huge advance in mathematics in his book "The Road Ahead".
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
LOL. Your own post proves your point.
Explain what a 'tangency' has to do with the point you're making?
Add: /s
tangent |?tanj?nt|
noun
2 a completely different line of thought or action: he quickly went off on a tangent about wrestling.
"Despite being a major player in Microsoft's new Windows Phone platform initiative, which some analysts believe will hold more market share than Apple's iPhone by 2016,"........
So who are these analysts and what makes them believe this is going to happen?
Oh wait I know,,,,,
The fact that MShit does have a real phone available in the middle of 2012 is a big clue that they are going to beat Apple by 2016.
Wow - who but a bunch of Wall Street Morons could have come up with that one.
I love analysts - the word starts with "anal" - need I say more?
Ass....es
And that's perfectly fine! Apple is currently losing in the "who sells the most phones" race.... but they're picking up steam in the "maximizing profit and sustainability" race. One of those might actually be more important than the other :-)
If we're talking about unit sales... Apple has certainly dominated in MP3 players and tablets. The same can't be said for their efforts in the phone and computer markets.... but I don't think they're in any kind of danger. Samsung sold more phones than Apple last quarter... but I don't think Apple will be waving a white flag anytime soon.
Apple has really only had one philosophy for what a phone should be... it must be easy to use. And they only make computers in the $1000+ category... another daring choice.
But you're right... there is a market for that kind of stuff. Apple will have an audience for quite some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
Samsung sold more phones than Apple last quarter...
...and all the quarters that Apple has been selling iPhones.
So what?
Apple still make more cold, hard cash out of phones than Samsung does,
Ummmm... I know.
Read the rest of my comments...
I'm the first person to trumpet profit over unit sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot
tangent |?tanj?nt|
noun
2 a completely different line of thought or action: he quickly went off on a tangent about wrestling.
Uh uh. It would appear you missed the point of my post. If you really wanted to be math-y about "a completely different line of thought or action" the word you would be searching for is "orthogonal" to, not "tangent" to.
Be that as it may, I was simply suggesting that the original poster who said "doing a 360" was using a colloquial reference that just about anyone -- except, apparently, the snarky guy who took off on him about his and America's math knowledge, and to whom I was responding -- reading his post understood.
Many such colloquial references use lousy math concepts (including the one you cite, which you obviously did not realize).
I still have and old Nokia 6010 from T Mobile. Got it in 2005 just after Katrina hit here in New Orleans. They gave them away...prepaid time, free cards too.
Still works, still has time on it. Bottom of the draw, took it out charged it up cool. Just basic phone but save my butt. Course not the same as the iPhone.
But good to know it still works.