423 comments? You AAPL people must be pretty upset right about now.
I'm going to be the voice of reason here and say from what I've seen, this blows away the iPad from every software and hardware point I can think of. The only advantage Apple holds is number of apps. Microsoft did some serious innovation here. I think this will be my first tablet.
Declaring yourself the voice of reason doesn't make your personal, subjective opinions somehow more objective. You are the voice of your own biases, just like everyone else's here in the forums. And if you can't think of anything that the iPad excels at beyond the sheer number of apps, then you're overlooking the retina display, long battery life, available 4G LTE, HDR and FaceTime cameras, multitouch with 10-finger tracking, user experience that's just as natural for frequent use of portrait mode (can your Windows tablet truly do everything in portrait?), AirPlay, built-in dictation, and let's not forget an enviable ecosystem of third party peripherals and accessories.
What "serious innovation" are you crediting Microsoft with, besides a keyboard cover? It's Windows Tablet PC, version 5.0, right? The "we finally believe Steve Jobs when he said the problem with tablets was the pen input and he proved it beyond all doubt in 2010" version of Windows Tablet PC?
Yeah, that's innovation. Two years ago. When Apple did it.
Just tell that to the millions that only own an iPad. The PC for many of those customers, was not even on the radar when considering a "computing device", because it was too difficult to learn new... and too much computer for what they wanted to do, like email, internet, and maybe Facebook.
Now go tell them their idiots, and see how far that gets you. I bet they have more fun in life than you do as well.
These folks are an excellent target market for this device. They now have a choice of a cheaper gear. More compatibility (use Office docs, plug in USB sticks, etc.). And they get a decent keyboard that doesn't take up half the screen. Have you ever tried teaching an old person to use an onscreen keyboard? Painful.
I'd still stick with the iPad. But then I don't want my iPad to be a laptop replacement. This, on the other hand, is a pretty much perfect laptop replacement for the Facebook-Email crowd.
Steve and Jony show the iPad to Apple's engineers.
One of the engineers: "We should add a kickstand so that the iPad sits at the correct angle to the viewer."
Steve glances at Jony.
Steve to engineer: "Take a ride with me in the elevator"
Lol, Steve would have kicked and he d try to stand...
Seriously though since someone talked about new underpants, a few people at apple might need some new ones if ms ship this in 3 months tops.
Let's face it iOS 6 is matching lion in development, or lack thereof. Wait, I take it back, iOS 6 shouldn't be buggy as hell and with 90% of "new features" piss poorly implemented and/or superfluous.
IOS 6 still uses the lock screen as a glorified watch, has no live updating od the app icons for apps that's not absolutely rudimentary, no widgets, no way to gather info up from apps on a screen...yeah it's got maps, Facebook (cause who wouldn't want to give that moron zuckerburg his private life's data so he can get rich) and the whore of babylon Siri...oh and a fucking clock....wow the technical innovation of that. Hopefully 10.9 will have a clock app though too, it's the cross polination thing...how very exciting.
apple has opened up the doors wide open...to be fair if there's anyone capable of missing this opportunity it's Balmer...
Actually this product has a good chance of hurting the iPad and Apple. Apple has done next to nothing to make the iPad a productivity tool for businesses. The iPad is not a replacement for someone who wants to get serious work done, but take it on the road. You still need a laptop for that. The Windows 8 version of Surface, that will run all Windows applications, is definitely an iPad-killer for those who want the form factor of a tablet with all of the software and hardware flexibility to create killer content, do business on the road, have all the familiar PC amenities, etc.
It's time for an iPad "Pro" that will run a full version of OS X.
I don't fully agree with your view (mostly, these days I don't believe an OS X iPad is needed). But I do agree that Apple isn't working hard enough to make the iPad business friendly. That may well be in part because they don't want to cannibalize their laptop market. Things like USB ports are a reality in a regular office. And unlike consumers, businesses don't impulse buy. They cost out the price of dongles, software, and even the extra Windows laptops they might need to handle file conversions with third parties.
I see the Surface Pro as a device that sits quite well between an iPad and a MacBook Pro. Is there a market for it? Hard to say. But from what I saw in the Keynote, MS seems determined to make money in this space.
Even on the low side, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Surface. Office pre-loaded? Big draw for regular folks.
A lot of people on AI are die-hard Apple fans who can't imagine buying anything else. And that's exactly why they can't fathom the choices a regular consumer faces and makes. To a regular consumer there hasn't been a decent iPad competitor....until now. And this thing has the ability to replace the cheap laptop they have or need too.
The low-end model doesn't even work with any existing software!
Two models that can't even use the same software.
Of course they can use the same apps.
Windows 8 intel and ARM tablets can use the SAME metro apps from the Windows Store.
It's the ARM tablet that won't be able to run x86 programs. There's not wrong with the "low-end" model because it's intended for those who wants an iPad alternative. The Pro version is for those who want maximum compatibility. They two models are clearly targeting two different markets, but the share the SAME metro apps Windows Store.
In fact, you can run all metro apps from all platforms of Windows 8.
What hasn't been done before is making two tablets of the same name that are completely incompatible with one another, I'll give you that. I guess that's innovating.
To be fair. How much of that has been done in a single tablet?
That said, the hardware is decent. But I think the big draw is going to be Office pre-loaded. Too bad they aren't launching till October. Come time for school, I can see many a parent going to a store, hearing that the only accessory they need is the keyboard case and picking this up over the iPad (where they have to pay for USB dongles, software, smart cover, keyboard case, and buy one model up to get 32 GB). Done right, this thing could become quite popular among high school and university students.
Windows 8 intel and ARM tablets can use the SAME metro apps from the Windows Store.
It's the ARM tablet that won't be able to run x86 programs. There's not wrong with the "low-end" model because it's intended for those who wants an iPad alternative. The Pro version is for those who want maximum compatibility. They two models are clearly targeting two different markets, but the share the SAME metro apps Windows Store.
In fact, you can run all metro apps from all platforms of Windows 8.
And if Microsoft is smart, they'll simply enable you to download apps on any device you are logged into as long as you bought apps from Windows Marketplace. So if you buy MS Powerpoint on your ARM tablet, you can use it on your Win 8 laptop. If they're smart...
I'm surprised though that they held off on pre-installing MS Office (Home and Student) on the Surface Pro. Bad move in my opinion.
I doubt that, but then again, the iPhone does have several thousands of apps that are also on the phone so maybe that's slowing it down a bit haha.
So it's the Windows XP of Apple then? It gets slower as you install more apps? I thought that isn't supposed to happen with Apple? If you don't think so, google Lumia 800 vs iPhone 4S boot-up time. The Lumia 800 and 710 have the same 1.4GHz single-core.
What hardware? We know that it's either ARM or x86. We know there won't be GPS or 3G/4G. We know capacities. We don't know anything else. We don't have a clue what these things will be actually able to do.
And if Microsoft is smart, they'll simply enable you to download apps on any device you are logged into as long as you bought apps from Windows Marketplace. So if you buy MS Powerpoint on your ARM tablet, you can use it on your Win 8 laptop. If they're smart...
I'm surprised though that they held off on pre-installing MS Office (Home and Student) on the Surface Pro. Bad move in my opinion.
You keep talking about the surface as if it is an actual product! Why wasn't the surface's display mirrored to the projection screen during Sinofsky's demonstration? Has anyone commenting here actually used one (outside of Redmond's campus from where many of those posting probably originate)?
So it's the Windows XP of Apple then? It gets slower as you install more apps? I thought that isn't supposed to happen with Apple? If you don't think so, google Lumia 800 vs iPhone 4S boot-up time. The Lumia 800 and 710 have the same 1.4GHz single-core.
Exactly. I work for A Big Tech Company (coff IBM coff) and you would not believe the push towards Apple internally. Huge base of fans among employees. BYOD is the new game in town. Windows laptops are still the base offering internally, but the IT resources are flowing towards mobile first (both iOS and Android are first class citizens), and increasingly Mac. Not to mention Cloud.
The old Enterprises are wedded to Microsoft shibboleth is rapidly changing.
Not to mention that most big companies haven't even upgraded to Windows 7 yet. On Dell's recent earnings call Michael Dell admitted as much. So these same companies are gong to be rushing to purchase a $1000+ table hybrid when they probably can get an HP/Dell/Lenovo laptop for cheaper? Sure. At my company they're looking at outfitting all telecommuters with desktops because they're cheaper than laptops.
If this was a fully functional tablet M$ would have demoed the device being used with their productivity apps and would have provided specs, pricing and availability. All they did was spend 45 minutes talking about the industrial design of the hardware,
Actually this product has a good chance of hurting the iPad and Apple. Apple has done next to nothing to make the iPad a productivity tool for businesses. The iPad is not a replacement for someone who wants to get serious work done, but take it on the road. You still need a laptop for that. The Windows 8 version of Surface, that will run all Windows applications, is definitely an iPad-killer for those who want the form factor of a tablet with all of the software and hardware flexibility to create killer content, do business on the road, have all the familiar PC amenities, etc.
It's time for an iPad "Pro" that will run a full version of OS X.
Why are you concerned about boot time? Surely you do not 'boot' your phone each time you use it?
Are you f'n kidding me? I had the first Windows Mobile phone (made by HTC) and that P.O.S. damn near required a reboot EVERY TIME IT RECEIVED AN INCOMING CALL, because goddamned Windows would lock up and not respond to any input. I have a friend who had the same problem with his Windows Mobile 6.5 phone. Different make, different version of Windows, BUT THE SAME PROBLEM. Seriously.
Having previously owned Windows Mobile phones, I can tell you that reboot time matters, because the person who tried to call you is waiting for you to call them back.
Are you f'n kidding me? I had the first Windows Mobile phone (made by HTC) and that P.O.S. damn near required a reboot EVERY TIME IT RECEIVED AN INCOMING CALL, because goddamned Windows would lock up and not respond to any input. I have a friend who had the same problem with his Windows Mobile 6.5 phone. Different make, different version of Windows, BUT THE SAME PROBLEM. Seriously.
Having previously owned Windows Mobile phones, I can tell you that reboot time matters, because the person who tried to call you is waiting for you to call them back.
This is Windows Phone that was rewritten from scratch. Windows Mobile 6.5 and earlier were in fact POS. I haven't restarted my WP7 Lumia 710 for 25 days. It's still going and going.
This is Windows Phone that was rewritten from scratch. Windows Mobile 6.5 and earlier were in fact POS. I haven't restarted my WP7 Lumia 710 for 25 days. It's still going and going.
I hope so. Because I swore off the brand (Windows Mobile, CE, whatever) after hearing that I wasn't the only one having these problems,
Comments
Declaring yourself the voice of reason doesn't make your personal, subjective opinions somehow more objective. You are the voice of your own biases, just like everyone else's here in the forums. And if you can't think of anything that the iPad excels at beyond the sheer number of apps, then you're overlooking the retina display, long battery life, available 4G LTE, HDR and FaceTime cameras, multitouch with 10-finger tracking, user experience that's just as natural for frequent use of portrait mode (can your Windows tablet truly do everything in portrait?), AirPlay, built-in dictation, and let's not forget an enviable ecosystem of third party peripherals and accessories.
What "serious innovation" are you crediting Microsoft with, besides a keyboard cover? It's Windows Tablet PC, version 5.0, right? The "we finally believe Steve Jobs when he said the problem with tablets was the pen input and he proved it beyond all doubt in 2010" version of Windows Tablet PC?
Yeah, that's innovation. Two years ago. When Apple did it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark64
That stance - he needs a better tailor...
...for his underwear.
Steve and Jony show the iPad to Apple's engineers.
One of the engineers: "We should add a kickstand so that the iPad sits at the correct angle to the viewer."
Steve glances at Jony.
Steve to engineer: "Take a ride with me in the elevator"
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
Just tell that to the millions that only own an iPad. The PC for many of those customers, was not even on the radar when considering a "computing device", because it was too difficult to learn new... and too much computer for what they wanted to do, like email, internet, and maybe Facebook.
Now go tell them their idiots, and see how far that gets you. I bet they have more fun in life than you do as well.
These folks are an excellent target market for this device. They now have a choice of a cheaper gear. More compatibility (use Office docs, plug in USB sticks, etc.). And they get a decent keyboard that doesn't take up half the screen. Have you ever tried teaching an old person to use an onscreen keyboard? Painful.
I'd still stick with the iPad. But then I don't want my iPad to be a laptop replacement. This, on the other hand, is a pretty much perfect laptop replacement for the Facebook-Email crowd.
Lol, Steve would have kicked and he d try to stand...
Seriously though since someone talked about new underpants, a few people at apple might need some new ones if ms ship this in 3 months tops.
Let's face it iOS 6 is matching lion in development, or lack thereof. Wait, I take it back, iOS 6 shouldn't be buggy as hell and with 90% of "new features" piss poorly implemented and/or superfluous.
IOS 6 still uses the lock screen as a glorified watch, has no live updating od the app icons for apps that's not absolutely rudimentary, no widgets, no way to gather info up from apps on a screen...yeah it's got maps, Facebook (cause who wouldn't want to give that moron zuckerburg his private life's data so he can get rich) and the whore of babylon Siri...oh and a fucking clock....wow the technical innovation of that. Hopefully 10.9 will have a clock app though too, it's the cross polination thing...how very exciting.
apple has opened up the doors wide open...to be fair if there's anyone capable of missing this opportunity it's Balmer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist
Actually this product has a good chance of hurting the iPad and Apple. Apple has done next to nothing to make the iPad a productivity tool for businesses. The iPad is not a replacement for someone who wants to get serious work done, but take it on the road. You still need a laptop for that. The Windows 8 version of Surface, that will run all Windows applications, is definitely an iPad-killer for those who want the form factor of a tablet with all of the software and hardware flexibility to create killer content, do business on the road, have all the familiar PC amenities, etc.
It's time for an iPad "Pro" that will run a full version of OS X.
I don't fully agree with your view (mostly, these days I don't believe an OS X iPad is needed). But I do agree that Apple isn't working hard enough to make the iPad business friendly. That may well be in part because they don't want to cannibalize their laptop market. Things like USB ports are a reality in a regular office. And unlike consumers, businesses don't impulse buy. They cost out the price of dongles, software, and even the extra Windows laptops they might need to handle file conversions with third parties.
I see the Surface Pro as a device that sits quite well between an iPad and a MacBook Pro. Is there a market for it? Hard to say. But from what I saw in the Keynote, MS seems determined to make money in this space.
Even on the low side, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Surface. Office pre-loaded? Big draw for regular folks.
A lot of people on AI are die-hard Apple fans who can't imagine buying anything else. And that's exactly why they can't fathom the choices a regular consumer faces and makes. To a regular consumer there hasn't been a decent iPad competitor....until now. And this thing has the ability to replace the cheap laptop they have or need too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The low-end model doesn't even work with any existing software!
Two models that can't even use the same software.
Of course they can use the same apps.
Windows 8 intel and ARM tablets can use the SAME metro apps from the Windows Store.
It's the ARM tablet that won't be able to run x86 programs. There's not wrong with the "low-end" model because it's intended for those who wants an iPad alternative. The Pro version is for those who want maximum compatibility. They two models are clearly targeting two different markets, but the share the SAME metro apps Windows Store.
In fact, you can run all metro apps from all platforms of Windows 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Touchscreen: done before.
Bicycle kickstand: done before.
Thin-build cover: done before.
Thin, attachable keyboard: done before.
What hasn't been done before is making two tablets of the same name that are completely incompatible with one another, I'll give you that. I guess that's innovating.
To be fair. How much of that has been done in a single tablet?
That said, the hardware is decent. But I think the big draw is going to be Office pre-loaded. Too bad they aren't launching till October. Come time for school, I can see many a parent going to a store, hearing that the only accessory they need is the keyboard case and picking this up over the iPad (where they have to pay for USB dongles, software, smart cover, keyboard case, and buy one model up to get 32 GB). Done right, this thing could become quite popular among high school and university students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206
Of course they can use the same apps.
Windows 8 intel and ARM tablets can use the SAME metro apps from the Windows Store.
It's the ARM tablet that won't be able to run x86 programs. There's not wrong with the "low-end" model because it's intended for those who wants an iPad alternative. The Pro version is for those who want maximum compatibility. They two models are clearly targeting two different markets, but the share the SAME metro apps Windows Store.
In fact, you can run all metro apps from all platforms of Windows 8.
And if Microsoft is smart, they'll simply enable you to download apps on any device you are logged into as long as you bought apps from Windows Marketplace. So if you buy MS Powerpoint on your ARM tablet, you can use it on your Win 8 laptop. If they're smart...
I'm surprised though that they held off on pre-installing MS Office (Home and Student) on the Surface Pro. Bad move in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233
I doubt that, but then again, the iPhone does have several thousands of apps that are also on the phone so maybe that's slowing it down a bit haha.
So it's the Windows XP of Apple then? It gets slower as you install more apps? I thought that isn't supposed to happen with Apple? If you don't think so, google Lumia 800 vs iPhone 4S boot-up time. The Lumia 800 and 710 have the same 1.4GHz single-core.
Lumia 800 about 16 sec
iPhone 4S about 21 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GPoRjJNcpI
We'll have to see about that, I guess. "Compatibility" isn't something that Windows 8 RP has in its vocabulary.
What hardware? We know that it's either ARM or x86. We know there won't be GPS or 3G/4G. We know capacities. We don't know anything else. We don't have a clue what these things will be actually able to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz
And if Microsoft is smart, they'll simply enable you to download apps on any device you are logged into as long as you bought apps from Windows Marketplace. So if you buy MS Powerpoint on your ARM tablet, you can use it on your Win 8 laptop. If they're smart...
I'm surprised though that they held off on pre-installing MS Office (Home and Student) on the Surface Pro. Bad move in my opinion.
You keep talking about the surface as if it is an actual product! Why wasn't the surface's display mirrored to the projection screen during Sinofsky's demonstration? Has anyone commenting here actually used one (outside of Redmond's campus from where many of those posting probably originate)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206
So it's the Windows XP of Apple then? It gets slower as you install more apps? I thought that isn't supposed to happen with Apple? If you don't think so, google Lumia 800 vs iPhone 4S boot-up time. The Lumia 800 and 710 have the same 1.4GHz single-core.
Lumia 800 about 16 sec
iPhone 4S about 21 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GPoRjJNcpI
Why are you concerned about boot time? Surely you do not 'boot' your phone each time you use it?
If this was a fully functional tablet M$ would have demoed the device being used with their productivity apps and would have provided specs, pricing and availability. All they did was spend 45 minutes talking about the industrial design of the hardware,
We've passed 450. Anyone want to shoot for 500?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo
Why are you concerned about boot time? Surely you do not 'boot' your phone each time you use it?
Are you f'n kidding me? I had the first Windows Mobile phone (made by HTC) and that P.O.S. damn near required a reboot EVERY TIME IT RECEIVED AN INCOMING CALL, because goddamned Windows would lock up and not respond to any input. I have a friend who had the same problem with his Windows Mobile 6.5 phone. Different make, different version of Windows, BUT THE SAME PROBLEM. Seriously.
Having previously owned Windows Mobile phones, I can tell you that reboot time matters, because the person who tried to call you is waiting for you to call them back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Are you f'n kidding me? I had the first Windows Mobile phone (made by HTC) and that P.O.S. damn near required a reboot EVERY TIME IT RECEIVED AN INCOMING CALL, because goddamned Windows would lock up and not respond to any input. I have a friend who had the same problem with his Windows Mobile 6.5 phone. Different make, different version of Windows, BUT THE SAME PROBLEM. Seriously.
Having previously owned Windows Mobile phones, I can tell you that reboot time matters, because the person who tried to call you is waiting for you to call them back.
This is Windows Phone that was rewritten from scratch. Windows Mobile 6.5 and earlier were in fact POS. I haven't restarted my WP7 Lumia 710 for 25 days. It's still going and going.
I hope so. Because I swore off the brand (Windows Mobile, CE, whatever) after hearing that I wasn't the only one having these problems,