"DVR functionality", for all intents and purposes, means "ability to record" to consumers. So you'll need a place to store that stuff, which isn't available on the Apple TV. Forcing people to use their computers as a DVR box isn't a valid solution.
Quote:
Maybe instead of arguing sometimes, you can simply say- "you're right".
Perhaps be right first.
I believe the thousands of EyeTV purchasers (who paid $180+ apiece might I add) "force people to use their computers as a dvr box". That isn't the only hardware device made for that specific purpose. But several companies that create products, employ staff, develop, research, market, and consumers who purchase must not understand the brilliance that you seem to possess. Congrats.
[quote name="Andysol" url="/t/150838/foxconn-rumored-to-begin-receiving-apple-television-lcds-in-q3-2012/80#post_2132623"]I believe the thousands of EyeTV purchasers (who paid $180+ apiece might I add) "force people to use their computers as a dvd box".[/QUOTE]
I was simply stating that technically it can be done, that there is enough storage space, and giving examples of numbers of people who already use that feature through other means. You, on the other hand, said it couldn't happen due to the Apple TV only having 8GB and then followed that up by stating no one would do it.
Both points, I believe, were completely refuted. If you can't agree with that, then I concede- you win. You hit your goal for that day I guess....
They have 8GB chips in them. You're not getting DVR functionality out of the current models.
I'm talking about them functioning as an extender...they wouldn't keep the content on them, they simply allow you to access content on (or record new content to) the main unit in the family room....the new Apple TV TV. They wouldn't need any additional memory for that. For example, on my Dish set up I don't have any head unit in the bedroom but I can watch everything on my DVR that resides in the family room. I can record to it too.
You, on the other hand, said it couldn't happen due to the Apple TV only having 8GB and then followed that up by stating no one would do it.
You can't tell me that people would accept the Apple TV as a "DVR" if it required a Mac for storage! That's laughable on the face of it. The eyeTV is a BOX, like every other DVR. The one that ISN'T a box is a direct connection from coax to the Mac, meaning the Mac is the DVR.
You can't tell me that people would accept the Apple TV as a "DVR" if it required a Mac for storage! That's laughable on the face of it. The eyeTV is a BOX, like every other DVR. The one that ISN'T a box is a direct connection from coax to the Mac, meaning the Mac is the DVR.
I know you're arguing with someone else but let me reiterate, the current ATV would function as an extender and would not use it's own storage or a computer's. It would use the new Apple TV's.
I know you're arguing with someone else but let me reiterate, the current ATV would function as an extender and would not use it's own storage or a computer's. It would use the new Apple TV's.
So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…
So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…
I'm sorry, but these 'solutions' aren't.
You have the ATV box already- all this does is add a feature. Don't like it? Don't use it. Just like MLB.tv, NHL, or iTunes store. Don't like photo stream screensaver? Don't have one. How is this any different?
So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…
I'm sorry, but these 'solutions' aren't.
No, you don't have to have a box unless you want to utilize multi room capabilities. Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners. This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface. The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.) That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.) So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.
No, you don't have to have a box unless you want to utilize multi room capabilities. Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners. This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface. The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.) That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.) So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.
Exactly- and you said it so it makes perfect sense. Which is, of course, why he will dismiss it.
I love it. Keep the posts where I'm told what I'm able to see coming…
So you had a chance to take a look at a display with angular resolution of 300+ or 400+ pixels per degree at normal viewing distance(s) [display occupying 25+ degrees horizontally]? Maybe you participated in these studies?
Wow, that must have been an experience. Why don't you share your experiences with us?
I hope that Apple DO NOT USE LCD. They have been demonstrating a certain level of environmental care by using LED and a lot of new TV's use LED, so why would they go back to the bad old days?
Sooo...now we know the next dumbshit Greenpeace campaign...
Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners. This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface. The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.) That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.) So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.
I'd be pretty pissed to have a Gen 1 AppleTV built into my early 2010 TV and missing out on all the gen 2 and 3 AppleTV features.
Large hard drive? Which decade are you from? Screw DVRs...I want live streaming for Sports and on demand for everything else...including sports I missed live. Why on earth do I want to mess around with any sort of DVR scheduling?
Multiple tuners? WTF for? Everything is IP under the covers except OTA and Sat (which is getting more and more screwed). How many freaking coax cables do you want running into your TV?
You seriously want to build the equivalent of a home server into every Apple Television to save 2 cables from the current aTV (1 power + 1 HDMI) that probably sits on top of your AV receiver (with it's own morass of wires)?
TVs and desktops... just doesn't make much sense for "Retina" as you're not usually sitting at a fixed distance from the screen. Could be 18 inches away, could be 3 feet away, could be 15 feet away.
HDTVs are retina by definition. The resolution is based entirely on the inability to resolve pixels (60 PPD) at the minimum 30 degrees horizontal viewing angle required for the induction effect to occur to replicate a theater like experience.
For reference somewhere between 33 degrees and 26 degrees HVA is the back row of many theaters with 36 degrees the maximum recommended (by THX anyway)
HDTVs are retina by definition. The resolution is based entirely on the inability to resolve pixels (60 PPD) at the minimum 30 degrees horizontal viewing angle required for the induction effect to occur to replicate a theater like experience.
For reference somewhere between 33 degrees and 26 degrees HVA is the back row of many theaters with 36 degrees the maximum recommended (by THX anyway)
I'd be pretty pissed to have a Gen 1 AppleTV built into my early 2010 TV and missing out on all the gen 2 and 3 AppleTV features.
Large hard drive? Which decade are you from? Screw DVRs...I want live streaming for Sports and on demand for everything else...including sports I missed live. Why on earth do I want to mess around with any sort of DVR scheduling?
Multiple tuners? WTF for? Everything is IP under the covers except OTA and Sat (which is getting more and more screwed). How many freaking coax cables do you want running into your TV?
You seriously want to build the equivalent of a home server into every Apple Television to save 2 cables from the current aTV (1 power + 1 HDMI) that probably sits on top of your AV receiver (with it's own morass of wires)?
1) Who said anything about a gen 1 ATV? I said the "existing" ATV, i.e., gen 3.
2) Yes, a large hard drive (SSD is too pricey.) You would have to have one if you are going to function as a DVR. You're saying everything should be streamed and that's a whole different argument.
3) You don't understand how multiple tuners work. It does not require multiple coax cables (although it can in some applications.) There would be ONE coax going to the TV, that's it. No set top box. Inside the TV would be multiple tuners so you can record several shows while watching one live.
4) No, it's not a home server. Now you're just talking in circles and you're missing the point. 95% of people are not ready to give up cable/sat in part bc there is no alternative. My idea is...well just go back and read my first post.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
"DVR functionality", for all intents and purposes, means "ability to record" to consumers. So you'll need a place to store that stuff, which isn't available on the Apple TV. Forcing people to use their computers as a DVR box isn't a valid solution.
Quote:
Maybe instead of arguing sometimes, you can simply say- "you're right".
Perhaps be right first.
I believe the thousands of EyeTV purchasers (who paid $180+ apiece might I add) "force people to use their computers as a dvr box". That isn't the only hardware device made for that specific purpose. But several companies that create products, employ staff, develop, research, market, and consumers who purchase must not understand the brilliance that you seem to possess. Congrats.
Ok... I'm right.
It's funny how you think that's analogous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It's funny how you think that's analogous.
It's funnier how you think it's not.
I was simply stating that technically it can be done, that there is enough storage space, and giving examples of numbers of people who already use that feature through other means. You, on the other hand, said it couldn't happen due to the Apple TV only having 8GB and then followed that up by stating no one would do it.
Both points, I believe, were completely refuted. If you can't agree with that, then I concede- you win. You hit your goal for that day I guess....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They have 8GB chips in them. You're not getting DVR functionality out of the current models.
I'm talking about them functioning as an extender...they wouldn't keep the content on them, they simply allow you to access content on (or record new content to) the main unit in the family room....the new Apple TV TV. They wouldn't need any additional memory for that. For example, on my Dish set up I don't have any head unit in the bedroom but I can watch everything on my DVR that resides in the family room. I can record to it too.
You can't tell me that people would accept the Apple TV as a "DVR" if it required a Mac for storage! That's laughable on the face of it. The eyeTV is a BOX, like every other DVR. The one that ISN'T a box is a direct connection from coax to the Mac, meaning the Mac is the DVR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You can't tell me that people would accept the Apple TV as a "DVR" if it required a Mac for storage! That's laughable on the face of it. The eyeTV is a BOX, like every other DVR. The one that ISN'T a box is a direct connection from coax to the Mac, meaning the Mac is the DVR.
I know you're arguing with someone else but let me reiterate, the current ATV would function as an extender and would not use it's own storage or a computer's. It would use the new Apple TV's.
So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…
I'm sorry, but these 'solutions' aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…
I'm sorry, but these 'solutions' aren't.
You have the ATV box already- all this does is add a feature. Don't like it? Don't use it. Just like MLB.tv, NHL, or iTunes store. Don't like photo stream screensaver? Don't have one. How is this any different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…
I'm sorry, but these 'solutions' aren't.
No, you don't have to have a box unless you want to utilize multi room capabilities. Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners. This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface. The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.) That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.) So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns
No, you don't have to have a box unless you want to utilize multi room capabilities. Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners. This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface. The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.) That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.) So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.
Exactly- and you said it so it makes perfect sense. Which is, of course, why he will dismiss it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Exactly- and you said it so it makes perfect sense. Which is, of course, why he will dismiss it.
Haha, most likely
I know it sounds crazy at first glance, but it's based on actual research.
Link to full image here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I love it. Keep the posts where I'm told what I'm able to see coming…
So you had a chance to take a look at a display with angular resolution of 300+ or 400+ pixels per degree at normal viewing distance(s) [display occupying 25+ degrees horizontally]? Maybe you participated in these studies?
Wow, that must have been an experience. Why don't you share your experiences with us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Windle
I hope that Apple DO NOT USE LCD. They have been demonstrating a certain level of environmental care by using LED and a lot of new TV's use LED, so why would they go back to the bad old days?
Sooo...now we know the next dumbshit Greenpeace campaign...
A rolls eyes icon would be really helpful...
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns
Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners. This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface. The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.) That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.) So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.
I'd be pretty pissed to have a Gen 1 AppleTV built into my early 2010 TV and missing out on all the gen 2 and 3 AppleTV features.
Large hard drive? Which decade are you from? Screw DVRs...I want live streaming for Sports and on demand for everything else...including sports I missed live. Why on earth do I want to mess around with any sort of DVR scheduling?
Multiple tuners? WTF for? Everything is IP under the covers except OTA and Sat (which is getting more and more screwed). How many freaking coax cables do you want running into your TV?
You seriously want to build the equivalent of a home server into every Apple Television to save 2 cables from the current aTV (1 power + 1 HDMI) that probably sits on top of your AV receiver (with it's own morass of wires)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin
TVs and desktops... just doesn't make much sense for "Retina" as you're not usually sitting at a fixed distance from the screen. Could be 18 inches away, could be 3 feet away, could be 15 feet away.
HDTVs are retina by definition. The resolution is based entirely on the inability to resolve pixels (60 PPD) at the minimum 30 degrees horizontal viewing angle required for the induction effect to occur to replicate a theater like experience.
For reference somewhere between 33 degrees and 26 degrees HVA is the back row of many theaters with 36 degrees the maximum recommended (by THX anyway)
http://home.roadrunner.com/~res18h39/calculator.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
HDTVs are retina by definition. The resolution is based entirely on the inability to resolve pixels (60 PPD) at the minimum 30 degrees horizontal viewing angle required for the induction effect to occur to replicate a theater like experience.
For reference somewhere between 33 degrees and 26 degrees HVA is the back row of many theaters with 36 degrees the maximum recommended (by THX anyway)
http://home.roadrunner.com/~res18h39/calculator.htm
60 ppd is 20/20 vision.
20/20 is nominal, not average acuity.
In a study by NHK, average acuity of participants was 20/10 or 120 ppd.
Same study shows participants were able to discern images with higher angular resolution that their acuity "score" would suggest.
So, I'd forget about stoneage 60 ppd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomoneh
60 ppd is 20/20 vision.
20/20 is nominal, not average acuity.
In a study by NHK, average acuity of participants was 20/10 or 120 ppd.
Same study shows participants were able to discern images with higher angular resolution that their acuity "score" would suggest.
So, I'd forget about stoneage 60 ppd.
Don't worry, the population is aging...besides I'm for 4K TVs, not against.
1) Who said anything about a gen 1 ATV? I said the "existing" ATV, i.e., gen 3.
2) Yes, a large hard drive (SSD is too pricey.) You would have to have one if you are going to function as a DVR. You're saying everything should be streamed and that's a whole different argument.
3) You don't understand how multiple tuners work. It does not require multiple coax cables (although it can in some applications.) There would be ONE coax going to the TV, that's it. No set top box. Inside the TV would be multiple tuners so you can record several shows while watching one live.
4) No, it's not a home server. Now you're just talking in circles and you're missing the point. 95% of people are not ready to give up cable/sat in part bc there is no alternative. My idea is...well just go back and read my first post.