Nest Learning Thermostat reportedly taken off Apple Store shelves

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  • Reply 181 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    sandor wrote: »
    Nest is fancy, but far too expensive for what it does. 

    Says the person who has never owned or used one for an extended period of time. Right!
  • Reply 182 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    mstone wrote: »
    It seems like the complexity of the system is more than most people want to study and program. With multiple family members, unpredictable schedules and lack of accurate initial programming, the Nest could actually cost more than not using a thermostat at all.

    Huh? I would think with each additional person screwing with the thermostat in a home, the likelihood of it having your system operational when you are not home would proportionally increase. At least with the occupancy sensor, Nest will correct for that and turn off automatically. That alone could generate enough savings to easily have it pay for itself within a couple of years easily. The self-correcting nature of it is what has saved the most energy for me!
    I wonder what percentage of people just turn the heat or A/C on/off manually. I know I do, but I so rarely need any temperature control I have not bothered to program my thermostat. My house in Central America doesn't even have heat or A/C because it is such an ideal temperature naturally. If you get cold or hot you just put on or take of clothing as necessary.

    Well interestingly enough you can also turn the Nest off. But if you use your system that little then the payback probably doesn't make sense. But most of the US is not that temperate so the savings are much more significant.
  • Reply 183 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    mstone wrote: »
    Again with the complexity. Sorry the A/C won't work because someone cracked the bathroom window upstairs.

    So you would rather air condition the outdoors than know there is an issue?
    You would need to have your smartphone app to find out which door or window was opened before the A/C would work. You would need to set thresholds for all kinds of stuff. How long has the door been open before shutting down the system. How much air leakage is occurring and under what circumstances, etc.

    Which is probably why they didn't launch with support for that. But caveats aside, I'd still like it since such details matter to me and it's not that much of a burden to ensure I'm being efficient, especially when the more extreme the weather the greater the savings. I have an alarm system that's on my home network so integration with Nest would be possible if they ever decided to support it.
    Sometimes we would leave the kitchen window slightly open to hear the kids playing outside. Too many variables.

    That's one way to look at it. I would think it would be pretty easy to hit a temporary override (in case you forget to close the window) but hey - were rich Americans - what's the big deal trading some convenience for efficiency?
    No thanks. I'll spend my life living rather than wasting time configuring settings.

    Hmm - must be nice to have unlimited funds. For me, much of my "living" requires money - which Nest is very, very good at saving with minimal effort on my part.

    All these comments implying that Nest introduces complexity are hilarious - because if you actually owned and used one you would find it's just the opposite. If anything I think less about my thermostat than I did before, and I'm easily using 40% less energy so far. When I am thinking about my thermostat it's far more effective - like when I head for home. In literally 20 seconds I can launch the app and adjust it so that my house will be perfect when I get home. When I do look at thermostat the little leaf icon serves to remind me to be conscious in how I set it. I figured it would mainly be a gimmick - but it's amazing at how effective it is in getting me to be positive in how I use my HVAC system.

    Which is by far and away the biggest consumer of energy in my home. Over 60% of power in the typical home goes for HVAC - really, it's a no brainer if you can get yourself to look beyond the trivial....
  • Reply 184 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Swamp cooler? You mean you have an airboat fan in your living room?

    LOL - no, a big box with pad drenched in water and a big blower that draws air across them and pushes the cooled air into your house. Evaporation causes cooling. When I was growing up in Southern Nevada, the arid climate made them VERY effective. Could freeze you out, actually. Sadly as more people moved into the area and then with the proliferations of lawns and golf courses the local humidity rose to the level where they weren't very effective any longer. Still better than nothing in a hot garage in 100+ degree heat though.

    I wish they would work in Virginia but with the humidity here I think all they would do is grow mold and push even more water-saturated air around :P
  • Reply 185 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    focher wrote: »
    In addition, it is Zigbee enabled and can be used in home automation configurations where it does things like lower/raise window shades.

    Really? Did I miss an update where they turned that on? I have a Zwave (zigbee/schlage link/etc.) enabled home automation system and would love to integrate the Nest into it. I know it has the zwave radio in it, but I hadn't seen any use of it yet. Shoot, will have to go cruise their web site....
  • Reply 186 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    mstone wrote: »
    I did not say is was 'no good', I'm saying I don't think many people want to spend the effort to make it work as intended

    Sigh. if you do nothing other than install it, it *will* be more efficient than the best programmed thermostat - because it will know, unlike a "properly programmed" thermostat when you have deviated from the schedule.

    Unless you have a perfectly rigid and utterly predictable life. Then I bid you good day. But I would also point out you would be in a minority of a minority.... most people have far more dynamic lives. For some reason you seem to think the more chaotic, the less useful the Nest is when it's exactly the opposite!
  • Reply 187 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    mstone wrote: »
    not inclined to run out and buy a fancy new thermostat when they haven't even made an attempt to program the one they already own.

    Sigh... again, people who are less likely to attempt to program the one they already own ARE EXACTLY WHO NEST IS TARGETING with the thermostat that DOESN'T REQUIRE YOU TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN INSTALL IT.

    Go watch the cnet video that was linked on, I believe page two. That schedule she showed HAPPENED AUTOMATICALLY. Listen to her carefully. She actually complained it hadn't learned her families morning habits yet. So at that point you can tap on that very screen she showed to update the programming to be more accurate for your family. Which is touch simple to do, unlike the vast majority of thermostats that have user interfaces that are absolutely horrid.

    That's the other hard to quantify benefit - the ability to set, change and update the schedule is so much more easy that even if you do decide to manually do it (like I did initially to get it jump started) people are going to be far more likely to not only attempt it but to succeed at it.

    Improving success, making me more comfortable overall and saving me seriously money are hardly "adding complexity" :rolleyes:
  • Reply 188 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    I just had mine fail.  The nest failed in such a way that my AUX heat was running all the time. 

    Is your common wire hot? Is it supplying power? Or is your Nest relying on it's battery and charging when your system is running?

    I ask because I came home earlier this season and compressor for my upstairs unit was on and completely frozen solid (the inside and outside coils, as well as the lines) when the rest of the system and thermostat indicated it should be off. I started all kinds of testing, troubleshooting and couldn't find an issue - called up a friend who's an HVAC tech and before I finished explaining the problem he asked if I changed the batteries in my thermostat. I was a little taken aback, he insisted, I changed the batteries and the system started working perfectly (once I left it off for several hours to let the inside coils thaw out).

    And this wasn't a Nest - just to clarify.
    So, when will it fail?

    Any product can fail. What's more interesting to me is - what kind of support will I get if the inevitable happens?

    If you don't know for sure if your system is supplying power (typically over the C wire) that's where I would start. I if you do have a C wire, get a test and make sure the 12/24 V is there. If so, then you probably got a bum unit or it's programmed wrong. I have no doubt Nest will swap it out or refund if you desire. Or if troubleshooting is over your head, take advantage of their concierge installation service.

    Unfortunately many systems are simply installed wrong, or the wiring was done wrong. Once straightened out, none of my friends with Nest's have had issues. But getting them installed and debugged with the often half-assed way systems are installed and wired is the real challenge... Unfortunately there are lots of hamburger installers out there who are either lazy, ignorant or worse.
  • Reply 189 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    jragosta wrote: »
    No, it's not. Not even close.
    Swamp cooler technology doesn't use coils at all - and it would certainly not be used in a data center since it adds too much moisture to the air. Data centers have traditional air conditioning systems, but sometimes cool the coils with water rather than air because of the greater heat transfer efficiency.

    Actually, there are hybrid systems that use a desiccant to remove the humidity from the cooled air. The desiccant is boiled to "dry" it so it can be re-used to pull more moisture out of the cooled air. It's not as efficient as pure evaporative cooling, but it's still far more efficient than traditional air conditioning.

    Here's a link for you :)

    http://www.earthtechling.com/2010/06/government-lab-creates-super-efficient-ac-for-all-climates/

    Personally I want a natural gas HVAC/Heat pump (especially after the electric bills I am sure to get this summer!): http://www.lvrj.com/special_sections/greenliving/43561872.html The biggest problem is finding a qualified installer - or even one willing to touch one of these since they are so rare in the US.

    Similar to how in Europe and Asia mini-split systems were common and are just now starting to be popular in the US.
  • Reply 190 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    jeffdm wrote: »
    But I don't think it matters for health concerns. I don't think the fears are well-grounded in reality.

    Nope - if he even remotely understood scientific principles such as the inverse square law, he'd be far less bombastic in his claims...
  • Reply 191 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    jeffdm wrote: »
    You'd be surprised how much of a difference proper insulation and sealing can do.

    Yes - it can make a huge difference. I'm in a new and well sealed house. But it's still large, and even though I live in a fairly moderate climate I still have a $150 or so a month power bill. A 20% swing for a year is more than enough to get a fairly quick payback. If that's not an issue for you and that your in the minority then why are you even stirring the pot?
  • Reply 192 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    welshdog wrote: »
    Interestingly power companies these days want people to use less power

    Because most american power infrastructure is undersized, over capacity and at a point where it's far more cost effective to conserve rather than upgrade.
    and are looking for simple cost effective ways to to that.  Apparently even at $250 (or what ever the wholesale price is) Reliant feels it will help customers conserve.  if that works for Reliant then it probably works for those of us who buy it on our own.  

    Hey! Once again, it's no fair using logic in a forum thread :)
  • Reply 193 of 231
    sevenfeetsevenfeet Posts: 446member


    One of the other things likely attractive to Reliant is the Nest's ability to interface with the Zigbee standard for smart energy monitoring.  That means smart thermostats and smart meters measuring energy usage at homes and businesses.  This will allow Reliant to better model energy consumption trends and better anticipate problems going forward.  And better technology will help all of us use less of that energy overall.  Nest is certainly not the only Zigbee capable thermostat but with more units of its kind out there in the field, power companies have more incentive to replace old power meters with new ones that tell them far more information than they get now.

  • Reply 194 of 231


    I have been using this thermostat from http://stylishfirst.com and I am very pleased with it.

     

  • Reply 195 of 231
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post





    You do realize it's targeted at home users, not people living in commercial buildings with commercial HVAC systems? How many thermostats at Lowes or Home Depot can you use?


     


    Commercial buildings and commercial HVAC systems? What the hell are you harping about? I live in a condo. That's residential. Every unit has an off the shelf Trane thermostat installed. Nest's documentation is crystal clear about the types of systems they do not officially support and nothing in that documentation suggests that I should have an issue. Nest's support reps also had ample opportunity to mention any compatibility issues during the couple hours we were on the phone troubleshooting.


     


    Not knocking the Nest folks. They have a great product and great service - just isn't as broadly compatible as they think or claim it is.

  • Reply 196 of 231
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    19 posts in a row? That has to be a worldwide record.
  • Reply 197 of 231
    mysticmystic Posts: 514member


    You talked me into it. I bought one yesterday. It was easy to install and it works great and looks good.

  • Reply 198 of 231
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mystic wrote: »
    You talked me into it. I bought one yesterday. It was easy to install and it works great and looks good.

    Love to read your thoughts, and month-to-month and year-over-year monthly results as it learns your home and habits.
  • Reply 199 of 231
    alex_kacalex_kac Posts: 58member


    Planning on buying two Nests - up and down. But my family and I are home 90% of the time except when we are not. Usually an impromptu dinner or outing gets us all out. Or we travel for a couple weeks.


     


    How well does Nest handle a schedule when we are home 90% and not leaving? We are in Texas now - moving to Colorado soon.

  • Reply 200 of 231
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,709member
    alex_kac wrote: »
    How well does Nest handle a schedule when we are home 90% and not leaving? We are in Texas now - moving to Colorado soon.

    That's probably Nest's greatest feature. With the motion/occupancy sensor, Nest adjusts to your life. The only catch might be if your thermostat is in an awkward place. My downstairs thermostat was in a narrow hallway pointing at my basement door. Not a big deal for a traditional thermostat, but less than ideal for the Nest. Since it was pretty easy for me to move it, I did just that. It's now more prominently mounted in my living room - and due to it's great looks, I didn't mind moving it at all. Chances are it will work just fine wherever your existing thermostat is.
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