Nest Learning Thermostat reportedly taken off Apple Store shelves

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 231
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mstone wrote: »
    No, I understood your point precisely. I just don't agree with you. I'm suggesting there is a point where technology is getting in the way rather than assisting. I remember back in the late 80s when GM came out with all these digital control systems in their autos. The speedometer was digital numerical display, the temperature was click and hold to adjust a numerical reading as was the radio. All of it was much more difficult and distracting to use than the analog twist the knob type controls that proceeded it. They quickly changed back to the old style of controls the following year, and although they were digital behind the scenes they presented themselves as analog. I am not a digital interface and I don't live by numbers. Judging by the way most people drive, and spend money, they do seem to be a bit numerically challenged or else they just don't care about the posted speed limit or their current bank balance. You know what they say: There are three type of people in this world. Those who are good with math and those who are not.

    You're arguing with me despite my third comment about "reduce some of the complexity for the user." If you bring up an example or scenario where it adds, overall, more complexity to the user's life then it's clearly not a user focused technology and certainly not one that I have in mind. Nest is a learning thermostat which means the user will need adjust it less often which therefore reduces the complexity for the user.


    PS: I still love the "There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't. ????
  • Reply 142 of 231
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Once again, even if you are correct (and you're undoubtedly exaggerating quite a bit), why do you insist on interpreting "it's not right for everyone" as "it's no good and no one needs it"?


    I did not say is was 'no good', I'm saying I don't think many people want to spend the effort to make it work as intended even if it could actually work as I wanted it to like reading my mind. I was under the impression the Nest was all about saving money. I think if I use the A/C or heat only when I actually needed it I would save even more. If I walk into a house that is comfortable I could not tell you with any precision what the actual temperature was and it really doesn't matter to me either. In many offices the thermostat is set at 72 and no one is allowed to touch it. If they feel a little cold they just ignore it or wear a sweater because the the readout says it is 72. It might be raining outside which has no impact on the temperature inside but psychologically one may feel colder. I'm the type of person who likes the flexibility to make adjustments on a case by case basis and not being a slave to technology.

  • Reply 143 of 231
    slang4artslang4art Posts: 376member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wozwoz View Post


     


    Alas, you are rather confused. No-one has an FM radio transmission mast in their house ... they just receive radio. And it is well-known that living next to a radio tower is bad news, and highly correlated with cancer clusters. If you live just a km away from a mast, you are usually fine ... by the inverse square power law. Same for a mobile phone ... keep it a metre or 2 away from your head, and you will be fine ... even though it has to transmit the signal all the way back to the base station which might be a few km away.


     


    And no ... I don't use wireless at home  (I get headaches from them) ... I've got Cat 6 ethernet wired throughout  ... and I do try to avoid mobile phones if possible (they also give me headaches ... or suggest use a Moshi to keep the phone away from your body, or use an external antennae in the car).


     


    You are, of course, free to nuke your testes or your brain, as you please. Life is full of choices.



    http://i.imgur.com/61lDc.gif

  • Reply 144 of 231
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    maccherry wrote: »
    It's a money grubbing tech gimmick and when Nest goes bankrupt in a few years who the hell is going to support that thing? The same folks supporting the old Newton tablets? 

    Is Nest bleeding chips? How do you know they'll go bankrupt? Why would it need support?

    And yes, that's a likely source, should that happen. Why would that be a surprise?
  • Reply 145 of 231
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mstone wrote: »
    I'm the type of person who likes the flexibility to make adjustments on a case by case basis and not being a slave to technology.

    There is nothing about Nest that prevents that. The entire premise is it's a programmable thermostat that learns. As they sate most programmable thermostats aren't programmed or programmed correctly. If you choose to have a programmable thermostat that is fine. Or if you choose not have no central HVAC that is fine, too. The point is it's an option for those that want it to save money and reduce their effort in controlling their HVAC.
  • Reply 146 of 231
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    There is nothing about Nest that prevents that. The entire premise is it's a programmable thermostat that learns. As they sate most programmable thermostats aren't programmed or programmed correctly. If you choose to have a programmable thermostat that is fine. Or if you choose not have no central HVAC that is fine, too. The point is it's an option for those that want it to save money and reduce their effort in controlling their HVAC.


    Perhaps the reason that Apple removed it from the store shelves is that ti doesn't sell very well as most people are content to control the temperature in their home the way they have been doing for years and are not inclined to run out and buy a fancy new thermostat when they haven't even made an attempt to program the one they already own. It probably appeals to younger people because of the novelty however many younger people live in apartments where they cannot change the thermostat anyway.

  • Reply 147 of 231
    sandor wrote: »
    what features? 

    there is honestly nothing that Nest provides that is actually useful or more efficient than a properly programmed thermostat with a web interface. they just throw it in a fancy package, create too-complicated electronics for it, and sell it to people too stupid to look for other options. I don't need a green leaf to tell me that i am saving energy when my HVAC system is off.
    1). It learns
    2). It adjusts according to the weather
    3). It adjusts according to past performance
    4). It senses when I'm home
    5). I don't have to worry about programming it
  • Reply 148 of 231
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    focher wrote: »
    Wrong. Just out of the box, Nest will use your Internet connection to monitor your local weather and adjust its behavior accordingly. In addition, it is Zigbee enabled and can be used in home automation configurations where it does things like lower/raise window shades.
    Get over it.
    Everyone else is.
  • Reply 149 of 231
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post





    4). It senses when I'm home

     


     


     


    Here is an example: Let's say it is a hot day and the clever thermostat turns on the A/C. You decide to go outside and mow the yard for 30 minutes. Nest detects that you are gone so it shuts off the A/C. When you come back inside hot and sweaty, there is no A/C or does it somehow automatically know you will be back inside in 30 minutes and lets the A/C stay on?

  • Reply 150 of 231
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    If your house does not stay (somewhat) cool for 30 minutes, you have other issues.
  • Reply 151 of 231
    dcgoodcgoo Posts: 262member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


     


     


    Here is an example: Let's say it is a hot day and the clever thermostat turns on the A/C. You decide to go outside and mow the yard for 30 minutes. Nest detects that you are gone so it shuts off the A/C. When you come back inside hot and sweaty, there is no A/C or does it somehow automatically know you will be back inside in 30 minutes and lets the A/C stay on?



     


    It adapts to your normal comings and goings. In my case, it has settled in on between two and three hours of no people, to determine auto-away.  I suspect its awareness of outside temp/humidity may alter the timing.   In the worst case, you *can* disable just the auto-away function. But in my case, that is one of the most valuable features.   With each software rev, the logging and reporting has improved significantly

  • Reply 152 of 231

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    Purchased a Nest thermostat but had to return it because I couldn't get it to work properly with my building's HVAC system. It would either blow hot air or lukewarm air but never cold, even after changing the wiring five times per the advice of their phone support team. The product is slick and comes with clear instructions and great phone support, but it just didn't work for me, and I live in a 3 year old building so it's not a matter of dealing with outdated technology.


     


    Perhaps the Nest isn't as widely compatible as originally thought and Apple had to take it off the shelves after receiving complaints? I always wondered if the limited availability of the Nest enabled the company to keep complaints out of the public eye...



     


    I just had mine fail.  The nest failed in such a way that my AUX heat was running all the time.  So, the system was cooling down the air then heating it back up.  Not so good for 95 degree weather.  The A/C system had been running for an average of 20 hrs each day for the last couple days.  I've only had it for 3 weeks...  After talking with the tech support, I could pickup that I wasn't the only one having similar issues. A new one has been overnighted, but it's the same revision.  So, when will it fail?

  • Reply 153 of 231
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,826member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sandor View Post


    what features? 


     


    there is honestly nothing that Nest provides that is actually useful or more efficient than a properly programmed thermostat with a web interface. they just throw it in a fancy package, create too-complicated electronics for it, and sell it to people too stupid to look for other options. I don't need a green leaf to tell me that i am saving energy when my HVAC system is off.



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post





    1). It learns

    2). It adjusts according to the weather

    3). It adjusts according to past performance

    4). It senses when I'm home

    5). I don't have to worry about programming it


     


    6) It is aware of humidity and makes adjustments accordingly


    7) It has a feature (unique as far as I know) where it extracts latent cool energy from the indoor coils by tuning off the compressor and running the fan for a few minutes.


     


    I know I posted 7) earlier, but I don't think everyone saw it since people keep saying it doesn't have much to offer.  That one feature could make a significant difference in energy use.  Nest will keep adding such features as development continues.

  • Reply 154 of 231
    sevenfeetsevenfeet Posts: 446member
    mstone wrote: »

    Here is an example: Let's say it is a hot day and the clever thermostat turns on the A/C. You decide to go outside and mow the yard for 30 minutes. Nest detects that you are gone so it shuts off the A/C. When you come back inside hot and sweaty, there is no A/C or does it somehow automatically know you will be back inside in 30 minutes and lets the A/C stay on?

    The Nest isn't that aggressive in terms of the auto-away feature. Usually it's an average of two hours before it turns the house off. But it really depends on your observed habits. Nest published a white paper last year when the came to market based on their research of potential customer habits. They summized that there were two basic kinds of users...the ones who went to work and left the house for long periods of times, and the ones who work from home. One of the reasons Nest has motion sensors is to figure out what kind of user you are. If I left the house for work every morning, the Nest would realize this after a while and more aggressively terminate HVAC function earlier. In my case since I work from home, it's much less agressive.

    For example, I travel on business from time to time. During those days, I notice that it usually takes my Nests about 3 1/2 hours to kick into auto-away once my wife and kids have left in the morning. But if I took a new job where I worked away from home all the time, it would notice this after a while and adjust accordingly. And of course, it pays attention to your habits evenings and weekends.

    Finally, it's smart enough to understand that it's not supposed to shut off HVAC function during the middle of the night when you are sleeping, except if you've set it up for that. All of the bedrooms in my house (save the guest bedroom) are on the second floor handled by a specific HVAC/Nest combo. So during the summer there isn't a need to keep the ground floor as cool as the upstairs. I set the temperature for 80 degrees after 10 PM. The Nest understands that this is a temperature designed to save energy during the summer months and even acknowledges it on the display (reading "80 degrees for the night"). If the temperature were to rise above 80 degrees, the AC would activate even though no one has walked in front of the motion sensor in the middle of the night.
  • Reply 155 of 231
    I just had mine fail.  The nest failed in such a way that my AUX heat was running all the time.  So, the system was cooling down the air then heating it back up.  Not so good for 95 degree weather.  The A/C system had been running for an average of 20 hrs each day for the last couple days.  I've only had it for 3 weeks...  After talking with the tech support, I could pickup that I wasn't the only one having similar issues. A new one has been overnighted, but it's the same revision.  So, when will it fail?
    Try disconnecting the heating and fan wires - leaving the common, and cooling wires. If the a/c stops functioning, it was wired wrong. If the aux heat still runs and the a/c still functions, it might be a problem with your system. If the aux heat stops but a/c still functions, then definitely the thermostat is faulty.
  • Reply 156 of 231
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post



    If your house does not stay (somewhat) cool for 30 minutes, you have other issues.


    Well it was just an example. I have no experience with the device so I simply asked a question. I my case, as stated earlier, my house is so well insulated and airtight I really don't need heat or A/C except on rare occasion, maybe a couple times a year for each at most and even then the temperature spread is so minimal I would consider my heating and cooling needs whim based as I really don't ever 'need' to used them. Just put on a sweat shirt or shorts as needed.

  • Reply 157 of 231
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mstone wrote: »
    Well it was just an example. I have no experience with the device so I simply asked a question. I my case, as stated earlier, my house is so well insulated and airtight I really don't need heat or A/C except on rare occasion, maybe a couple times a year for each at most and even then the temperature spread is so minimal I would consider my heating and cooling needs whim based as I really don't ever 'need' to used them.

    And in your case I would assume any knowledge person would discourage you from investing in a new thermostat, a Nest or any other brand.
  • Reply 158 of 231
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post





    The Nest isn't that aggressive in terms of the auto-away feature. Usually it's an average of two hours before it turns the house off. But it really depends on your observed habits. Nest published a white paper last year when the came to market based on their research of potential customer habits. They summized that there were two basic kinds of users...the ones who went to work and left the house for long periods of times, and the ones who work from home. One of the reasons Nest has motion sensors is to figure out what kind of user you are. If I left the house for work every morning, the Nest would realize this after a while and more aggressively terminate HVAC function earlier. In my case since I work from home, it's much less agressive.

    For example, I travel on business from time to time. During those days, I notice that it usually takes my Nests about 3 1/2 hours to kick into auto-away once my wife and kids have left in the morning. But if I took a new job where I worked away from home all the time, it would notice this after a while and adjust accordingly. And of course, it pays attention to your habits evenings and weekends.

    Finally, it's smart enough to understand that it's not supposed to shut off HVAC function during the middle of the night when you are sleeping, except if you've set it up for that. All of the bedrooms in my house (save the guest bedroom) are on the second floor handled by a specific HVAC/Nest combo. So during the summer there isn't a need to keep the ground floor as cool as the upstairs. I set the temperature for 80 degrees after 10 PM. The Nest understands that this is a temperature designed to save energy during the summer months and even acknowledges it on the display (reading "80 degrees for the night"). If the temperature were to rise above 80 degrees, the AC would activate even though no one has walked in front of the motion sensor in the middle of the night.


    Thanks for the details. Still seems rather complicated, but for someone who wears flip flops a their primary footwear at home I really don't think I need one. I pity the fool who lives in ... [fill in your location]

  • Reply 159 of 231
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Swamp cooler? You mean you have an airboat fan in your living room?

     



    Actually the Colorado swamp cooler is the exact same technology used by many data centers including Apple's were by water is passed over coils as air is used to cause evaporative cooling.

  • Reply 160 of 231
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Large commercial coolers will use evaporative cooling to assist cooling the A/C coils but most smaller unit for houses don't use coils.
    Water is dripped through a filter and air is pulled in through the filter thus moist air is pushed into the house.
    Need to have air flow though the house so closing up everything tightly alá A/C will do no good.
    Can't use them (non-coil coolers) in humid climates since it adds humidity and it would simply get more muggy inside.

    I can drop the temp down to 60º with it (depending on temp/humidity outside).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

    I read somewhere that Saudi was looking at hosting the Olympics and it was figured out they could lower the temp of the city by 25º by putting fountains all over the place (think the sprayers in lines at Disneyland).
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