Microsoft faces 'major dilemma' pricing Surface tablets against iPad



  • Reply 161 of 209
    theothergeofftheothergeoff Posts: 2,081member


    Originally Posted by BanExtremists View Post

    Four pages of comments and not much intelligent discourse.  I expect too much from this board.


    Some things not mentioned:


    Win Phone 8, Windows RT and Windows 8 will share a core kernel.  This will make it much easier for developers to write for all three platforms.


    Surface Pro will have up to 128 GB of storage.   That wipes the floor with any iPad.


    Both Surface's will be expandable with flash memory cards.  Unlike having to pay $100 to Apple for more memory at severely inflated memory prices.


    Plug in an external portable hard drive into the USB and get unlimited file storage. Oh, that Apple thingy has no file system. Harder to manipulate files.


    People seem obsessed with the fact that a keyboard is available for Surface models.  somehow the Surface fails because of this.  Yet, there are at least a dozen good keyboards available for the iPad.  Did these people think before posting? 


    Surface Pro offers instant compatibility with existing Enterprise software, including proprietary.  Can't really say the same thing about the iPad with little to no Enterprise support.

    Developers will write 3 apps for 3 platforms...  some of that code will be sharable... but it will be 3 apps.   No different than the iPhone,iPad,OSX.  - Draw


    Storage: Have you heard the Gretzkyism.  "Skate to where the puck will be..."  You don't equate a laptop to a tablet.   Local Storage in a Cloud computing model can be minimized and some extents more is bad (backups).   You need to have an adequate local working set... the rest is in the cloud.   


    Keyboards  pretty much wasted argument.  The key thing is intuitive UI.   If microsoft can do that with either 'just a keyboard' or 'just a stylus' mode... great.  Until I actually see someone typing on a surface keyboard (I remember LongHorn;-), I won't hold my breath.


    You switched arguments in mid stream in enterprise support.  most FXXX enterprises support iOS in one way or another (mine supports them on MS Exchange and Sharepoint and web apps all are mobile enhanced? what else do we need... oh that desktop that still runs that proprietary app... let's just leave it, don't upgrade it to Win8 (from XP).  Oh... and snap... people buy laptops and tablets too...   lots of people  people who run businesses, and want to take their work home with them.  "Oh... there's an app for that?  Cloud backended?  Great. "


    Surface is purely a tactical protection of the Windows revenue stream... All the arguments made about Windows Enterprise Strengths can be made, but the 17year old running off to college is not buying a laptop for it's "enterprise support"  And in today's market, that's the growth market for MacBooks and iPads... individuals under 30 and over 50... people not tied to 'enterprise.'   


    As stated previously... you shouldn't make this into a MS vs Apple battle.  This is a MS vs shareholder battle.  MS needs to be relevant in the market, and the market has moved from the desktop to the briefcase/backpack.   OEM's can't compete with the iPad or iPhone because the margins squeeze under the Microsoft Win+Office Tax... therefore Microsoft pretty much has to make the device, in order to ensure Microsoft profits.
  • Reply 162 of 209
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member

    Apple should do the right thing and hold a funeral for this tablet with a kickstand. It would be the polite and proper thing to do. I don't even think that it deserves to be buried, just cremate it and get it done with.

  • Reply 163 of 209

    Are you nuts, Apple is focused. Ms was the last of the competition to enter the battle.Now that all the competition are out of hiding its gonna be full force with the hammer from  Mr.Tim Cook.


    and besides that's the same people who make the iPod killer. "the dead Zune" so no stepping up game for Apple, we the consumers would speak.

  • Reply 164 of 209
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member

    And regarding these currently non-available MS demo tablets, the iPad 4 is going to be out not long afterwards. By Q4, the iPad 4 will be right around the corner. :)

  • Reply 165 of 209
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,275member


    Originally Posted by SaltWater View Post

    Microsoft is creating a very nice eco system, if they get a long term vision and not starting to make the windows 8 app signature bullshit and so on, maybe they have a chance, right now Android is the King, Apple is slowly loosing to Google, and the new OS Mountain Lion don't give much to already called Mac OS X Vista - Lion.


    About the prices Microsoft has an advantage here, since Apple only knows expensive word, and Microsoft is know to Make 10 versions of the "same" operating system, so that will be the same with tablets, since Nokia will sell Windows 8 Tablets!! 


    I do think we are always thinking Apple is the best and greatest, but if we see the last numbers, stock markets and iPhones/Macs sell, things are not looking so good as once did.


    If I read between the lines, you seem to be basing Apple's *success* on market share by unit. That's not how they succeed. They succeed by delivering the best product they can with healthy margins. Tell me again how they are doing? ;)

  • Reply 166 of 209
    allblueallblue Posts: 393member


    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

    By the way, I want a Surface Pro so that I can use only one device instead of having to own a computer AND a tablet.


    What? Based on that presentation alone? That's one hell of an act of faith.

  • Reply 167 of 209
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member


    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

    So unless we fawn over Apple's products, we shouldn't expect a reasonable discussion. Never mind, your comment provides me with that answer....Unicorns.../sheesh


    Microsoft will drag us kicking and screaming into the past...



  • Reply 168 of 209


    Originally Posted by hexor View Post

    I think the Pro would be more appropriately compared to the Macbook Air at $999.  But who know if MS will be able to even match that price.

    You are correct... to an extent. The Surface Pro, like the MBA is not going to be a graphics whiz. It will likely even be slower then the MBA regarding graphics and CPU clock speed due to the heat handling capacity of each device. However, since the Intel-based Windows applications are still not designed for touch and gesture input, The MS Surface Pro will need the keyboard for mouse/trackpad for best content creation. The MBA has a great built-in back-lit keyboard and gesture-aware trackpad. The MS Surface Pro (like the RT version) is hard to use anywhere other then on a table. The kickstand makes it necessary to have more depth of space to set up than a MBA. Imagine trying to type on your lap with the pro... the kickstand makes you sit the screen back behind your knees and then the rubber keypad is drooping off the sides of your legs while the touchpad is somewhere up past your belt buckle. 


    Anything ported over to the RT and not optimized for a touch/multi-touch input is just a slower gutless Surface Pro. So, Microsoft will debut with the RT, which will underwhelm everyone, so when the Pro versions arrives in 2013 (or if ever) the interest may be completely gone. Besides, by then, the hype will all be about the new Apple iPad and it will be, "MS who?"

  • Reply 169 of 209
    likkielikkie Posts: 43member


    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     ...they are... behind in a market that they cannot define anymore, only react to.



    Absolutely right!


    It's gonna be interesting to watch how this pans out.  It's been a long time since Microsoft actually had to complete.  I wonder if they can do it?

  • Reply 170 of 209


    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Do they serve cake in your dimension?


    I could really go for some alternate reality cheesecake. Before I wake up.

    Exactly! Bravo....Having an eco-system (Apple) and saying you have an eco-system (MS, Google) are two entirely different things! :)


    And then add the qualifier "elegant" to describe said eco-system (again, Apple) differentiates eco-systems even more. I have never heard anything from either MS or Google described as "elegant!" :)

  • Reply 171 of 209
    lamewinglamewing Posts: 742member


    Originally Posted by allblue View Post


    What? Based on that presentation alone? That's one hell of an act of faith.

    At least MS is presenting such an idea. 


    Does Apple have one OS that can work as a computer and tablet depending on the situation? Nope. Got to have 2 devices and 2 OSes.

    Does Apple have true handwriting recognition software? No. Got to buy a Windows machine.


    And it isn't an act of faith. Currently, the Surface is the only device that will provide those capabilities. I am not tied to MS or Apple. IF Apple created such a device I would buy theirs. Same with any other manufacturer that created such a device. As it stands either MS or Apple are really the only two who can do this. BUT...MS has to deal with building hardware a massive scale...which is not something they are particularly skilled at doing. Apple doesn't have a handwriting recognition option on any of their devices. So....I might as well hope for MS to make the Surface. If it doesn't work world won't fall apart.


    It is interesting that so many Apple folks nay say the Surface, but if Apple were to make such a device that could act as a desktop/laptop/tablet all-in-one the Apple supporters would have a global orgasm. The only REAL problem with the Surface is that MS came up with it...not Apple.

  • Reply 172 of 209
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member


    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

     The only REAL problem with the Surface is that MS came up with it...not Apple.




    The only real problem we have with it is that it doesn't exist.



  • Reply 173 of 209
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    lamewing wrote: »
    Does Apple have true handwriting recognition software? No.

    Your bad experiences with software do not "doesn't have that software" make.
  • Reply 174 of 209
    zbarskyzbarsky Posts: 19member

    It must be a great feeling for competing OEM's to be subsidizing Microsoft's tablet line.

  • Reply 175 of 209
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    So torn here. There are lots of things I love about the Surface, Metro, Win8, and WinNT kernel across ARM/Intel and smartphone/tablet/PC, but there is so much lack of understanding about consumers that I think it's all going to fail miserably.
  • Reply 176 of 209
    kimghkimgh Posts: 13member


    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

    That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.


    Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.

    Yes, but Microsoft's OEM's do NOT have that advantage, which I think is the real point here.

  • Reply 177 of 209
    Apple will need to step up its game if it wants to compete with the Surface Pro. It should consider attaching a keyboard to the iPad, allow it to run a full desktop OS (OS X maybe?), provide USB and miniDisplay ports, a trackpad, and a swivel-like display. They should give it a name that connotes light weight, such as Oxygen or Feather, maybe even Air. 

    That would be a mistake. Once you a attach a keyboard, trackpad, USB and run a full desktop OS, you have a laptop, not a tablet. And there's nothing wrong with a laptop. I like laptops. And if you really think a touchscreen makes a laptop better, then why don't you buy something like a touchscreen Lenovo ThinkPad X230 with Windows 7 today? Or for that matter, one of the Acer or Samsung x86 Windows 7 tablets? The fact that these things aren't a huge success (just ask HP and DELL) is an indicator that Microsoft isn't going to reverse its fortunes by slapping Metro and the number 8 on it.
  • Reply 178 of 209
    Your bad experiences with software do not "doesn't have that software" make.

    As a former Newton user, I can say that Apple not only had true handwriting recognition, they had it before Windows CE got it. I know. I was there.
  • Reply 179 of 209
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member


    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

    As a former Newton user, I can say that Apple not only had true handwriting recognition, they had it before Windows CE got it. I know. I was there.


    Ha! When I saw the Surface I didn't think of the Zune, I thought of the Newton. Great idea... bad implementation. The Newton never overcame its shortcomings. I see the same thing happening with the Surface. The Zune... bad idea... bad implementation.... imho.


    I was there for the Newton as well... and the handwriting facet was between okay and great.

  • Reply 180 of 209
    4phun4phun Posts: 51member
    hellacool wrote: »

    Microsoft does have a very nice eco system in place for their OS, it is called the internet.  There is nothing I can not find on the internet I need for my PC.  One of the biggest complaints I have with my wife's iMac is that I pretty much have to pay for everything, freeware is pretty much non-existent in the MAC world.

    From my iPad

    I run windows via parallel s 7 on the Mac
    I wisely bought some Mac software to complement what Apple provides.

    I still get the daily email from GAOTD with the free commercial software.

    The reality is I have no need for all that ' free windows software' which often is a glorified KLUDGE. Mac software is so integrated it just turns out to be better in daily use.

    This isn't fanboy ism but over 60 years of experience talking!

    I have spent thousands and thousands over the years on Windows hardware and software only to begin looking at Apple integration after the first iPhone. I truly regret not making the switch much sooner.
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