Analyst: Apple can 'relax,' as Google Nexus 7 is 'just another' Android tablet

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 106


    Great, so now Apple can dribble out new features at their own leisurely pace as they release new generations, rather than have to go full in on improvements they have ready to go.  Hopefully Windows will like a fire under this market, but I have some doubts...

     

  • Reply 62 of 106
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    rtm135 wrote: »
    One of the goals of Jelly Bean was to make it more fluid, so they increased the FPS to 120.  I've been watching side-by-side comparisons with Ice Cream Sandwich and the difference is pronounced.

    First, I wouldn't rely too much on public demos. There is a long history of someone demonstrating something that looks great, but that stinks when the final release product is out. Besides, we've been hearing that Android has no lag for years now - why should we believe someone who says that the new version has no lag? Why would it be any more true than the last 4 years that the claim was made?

    Second, no doubt the demo was done on recent hardware. It's not that hard to make a demonstration quad core A15 with 2 GB of RAM look impressive. Let's try that on existing hardware.

    Third, even if JB does look good, if history is any guide, only a few percent of users will be using it even 2 years down the road.
  • Reply 63 of 106
    agramonteagramonte Posts: 345member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


    That's a great business model. No margin?



    why do you care as a consumer what their margin is

  • Reply 64 of 106
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    Agreed.  And would like to add that Jelly Bean (Android 4.1) is more advanced than iOS 5 and possibly even iOS 6 when it comes to features.


     



    Can you elaborate? More advanced how?

  • Reply 65 of 106
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    That's what Google wants you to think. But we saw how well that tactic worked for Amazon with the Kindle Fire. this will likely be a repeat. At best they might take top marks for the Android tablets. 


     


    As for your 'feature list' you aren't totally correct. A feature list can be just the way to buy a tablet, it all depends on what features you put on your list. If you are specs focused you could prove to be wrong about what is best. But 'easy to use UI' and such are features and very good ones to judge something over the specs or even the price. Which is possibly why so many folks are still buying iPads hand over while Samsung etc report 'shipped' but not 'sold' to make their numbers look close to the same while ignoring all the units collecting dust or being returned by unhappy customers. 


     


    Same with cute tricks in an OS. I have a friend that jail broke his iPhone just so he could have icons that spin when he taps to open them. Really? That's the vital feature that made it worth the time to jailbreak your phone. Not doing FaceTime on 3g or something with some utility but spinning icons. 



    Ummm IOS 6 will have face time over Cellular.

  • Reply 66 of 106
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    agramonte wrote: »
    why do you care as a consumer what their margin is

    Take a little while and think about why that's a silly question.
  • Reply 67 of 106

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    No one knows. Apple surely wouldn't officially admit to a single one, and Google doesn't report numbers either. Additionally what qualifies an app as malware-infested? Is it when it does something that's not made transparent to the user such as harvesting contacts, calendars or other personal data without clear permission? 





    An Android App can do unseemly things with your personal information without jumping through any significantly more difficult hoops than an iOS app.


     


    Say you buy a social networking App that includes a feature that allows you to send SMS updates to your buddies.  Of course, that App must report its ability to scan your contact list so that it can identify which buddies you want to receive those notifications.  That is a legitimate use of the information, and it will be reported by the current Android permission notification system at install time.  You know that is a legitimate feature, so you will permit the app to be installed.  Now, the App has free reign to do anything with your contact information, regardless of whether or not it is actually related to the originally desired functionality.


     


    In the background, the App may also include hidden code that clones your whole contact list, and uploads it to the developer, who can then sell it to the highest bidder without your consent.


     


    Both operations would be automatically approved without any distinction under the current Android permission system.  This doesn't really give Android's permission system any tangible benefit over the purely trust-based privacy policy that is currently implemented in iOS 5.x.


     


    At least there is the potential for Apple to discover the hidden functionality through its code review process and deny permission to list the App until the developer agrees to remove the infringing functionality.  Can you count on Apple to actually perform a sufficiently thorough examination to discover such infringements?  Maybe not, based on previous experience.


     


    So at the end of the day, confidentiality of information is just a crapshoot with any smartphone App you may care to evaluate, no matter which OS you're using.

  • Reply 68 of 106
    agramonteagramonte Posts: 345member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stniuk View Post


    The big question is, we see iPads being integrated into schools, airlines, armed forces, hospitals etc.


    The reason for this is the iPad is a secure device, you can't side load a load of crap onto it etc.


    This is a top reason why the iPad is so popular in business, can anyone imagine using one of these in critical situation?


    BTW I think the surface will also suffer from this untrusted status due the dire security history of MS and again the openness of the system.



    guess you did not read about "Invincea" or the 787 Dreamliner?

  • Reply 69 of 106
    agramonteagramonte Posts: 345member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Take a little while and think about why that's a silly question.


    take a little time and focus on the name on the device and realize why it is not.

  • Reply 70 of 106
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    agramonte wrote: »
    take a little time and focus on the name on the device and realize why it is not.

    Took some time. Still don't get it. Enlighten me both on what the name has to do with anything and on why that's not a silly question to ask.
  • Reply 71 of 106
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

     

    That's what Google wants you to think. But we saw how well that tactic worked for Amazon with the Kindle Fire. this will likely be a repeat. At best they might take top marks for the Android tablets. 

     

    As for your 'feature list' you aren't totally correct. A feature list can be just the way to buy a tablet, it all depends on what features you put on your list. If you are specs focused you could prove to be wrong about what is best. But 'easy to use UI' and such are features and very good ones to judge something over the specs or even the price. Which is possibly why so many folks are still buying iPads hand over while Samsung etc report 'shipped' but not 'sold' to make their numbers look close to the same while ignoring all the units collecting dust or being returned by unhappy customers. 

     

    Same with cute tricks in an OS. I have a friend that jail broke his iPhone just so he could have icons that spin when he taps to open them. Really? That's the vital feature that made it worth the time to jailbreak your phone. Not doing FaceTime on 3g or something with some utility but spinning icons. 

    No, $199, speaking strictly in terms of price, is competitive with the iPad. That's a simple fact. It is half the price of the cheapest iPad 2.

     

    You say this will be a repeat but we don't yet know that this is a fact. If reviews come out and it turns out to be as large a piece of trash as the Kindle Fire is I'll wholly agree with you, but at this stage people (and you) are making matter-of-fact conclusions about it before people have actually had a chance to truly test it out. To approach it from another angle, it's slow, clunky, and horrible to work with like the Fire it will just be another joke, but if it runs smoothly (and it probably will at least run a little more smoothly because it will be using the stock Android OS) it will be a new consideration. It also won't share the Fire's OS limitations.

     

    I'm not sure we're disagreeing about a feature list. I was speaking more in terms of the type of 'feature list' shopping people tend to do. Sort of along the lines of, "Voice control? Check." where traditional voice control might be considered equal to Siri, or "Maps? Check." where Google's integrated maps solution would be considered equal to the outdated [but soon to be updated in iOS 6] maps solution in iOS. People frequently dismiss iOS on this count without really realizing that the vast majority of features in iOS have been very carefully realized and are highly polished. In some areas Google, for example, has just jumped in, hacked a feature together, and tossed it out. They cannot be considered equally with a simple checklist mindset. Using the previous maps example, with iOS 5, if someone wanted fantastic map integration with good navigation assistance they'd have that stock with Android but would need to buy an app with iOS.

     

    On an unrelated note, this forum now has me quoting people in HTML. I don't know which usability-inept person though that would be a good idea, but I'd really love to turn that off (what's wrong with good old fashioned BBCode?). Is anyone aware of a setting I need to toggle? I don't even see the options bar for the WYSIWYG view.

  • Reply 72 of 106

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post



    I think Apple would be wise to release an intermediate device between the iPod Touch and the iPad. A 7" device would solve their pricing issues, and complete the range, hitting all essential target markets.


    I agree with this. I would buy an Apple 7" iPad just for the portability.

  • Reply 73 of 106


    Google probably isn't out for profits here, they are attempting to build out the android tablet base and address the Kindle Fire issue (heavily modified, locked out of the play store).  If they can get a decent tablet out there (early benchmarks say that it performs pretty well) at a low price point they build out the base and create incentive for developers to write tablet specific apps.  Remember, Google is late to the party here, Apple has an enormous head start.  Also coming to mind is that Google has been rumored to eventually offer a full stable of Android tablets which will most likely be higher spec'd.  Is this tablet better than the iPad? Hell no.  Is it the best $200 tablet out there? Probably.  Will people think about buying one given the price point and features? I think so.

  • Reply 74 of 106
    agramonteagramonte Posts: 345member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Took some time. Still don't get it. Enlighten me both on what the name has to do with anything and on why that's not a silly question to ask.


    Because the viability of the company is not dependent on the sale of the item or its margin - it is being sold at cost due to that reality, it is a means to an end - That is to your benefit. The Nexus line can not be seen in a vacuum, it is only part of a larger business model... as the consumer, the margin on a Nexus 7 is irrelevant - just as it is irrelevant to Google. 


     


    You can also see reflected on the partner Google picked - ASUS is a top tier PC component maker - they entered the consumer business but their main income is from manufacturing services - everything from MB to GPU cards - They have no margin on the sale of the device but we have no clue if they had a margin on the construction of the device, one that Google is covering. 


     


    Having their Logo associated with Google as a partner will do wonders for their manufacturing business - I'm sure The nexus promo shots will be part of one of the easiest Business to Business marketing campaign ASUS Marketing department will ever have to make. Not to mention Nvidia and ASUS just got a great deal of free press.


     


    As a consumer, your attention has a value to a business - why so much money is spent on marketing... at times you get something because of it - for free or at cost.

  • Reply 75 of 106
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by agramonte View Post


    why do you care as a consumer what their margin is



     


    Companies with lousy margins that struggle to make a profit have a tendency to enter markets (especially news ones) with a lot of me-too promises and high-talk, only to churn out (accordingly) a lot of me-too products that end up turning into abandonware in short order. 


     


    Example: Dell's efforts in the mobile space. 


     


    Apple's profits are a signifier of the the health of the company. It means the money I pump into their ecosystem today won't be wasted because they won't be around tomorrow or because they'll have to do a "reset" of their entire strategy. I feel sorry for folks that got hosed by HP's Touchpad. And RIM's Playbook. The list goes on. 

  • Reply 76 of 106
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member


    I certainly hope Google designed the Nexus 7 to be highly recyclable.


    Looks like it will be yet another failed iPad clone tossed into the giant dumpster fire of failed iPad clones.


     


    But plastic makes toxic smoke when it's burned.  Much better to recycle.

  • Reply 77 of 106
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    Agreed.  And would like to add that Jelly Bean (Android 4.1) is more advanced than iOS 5 and possibly even iOS 6 when it comes to features.


     



     


    This is such a vague assertion, that it's effectively meaningless, which also makes it impossible to argue against... or for, for that matter.


     


    However, even if we assume, for the sake of discussion, that Android 4.1 is "more advanced" (whatever that is supposed to mean) than iOS 5,  iOS 5 is, and has been, for the better part of a year, a shipping product, installed not only all of Apple's current iOS devices, but also a very large percentage of older devices already deployed. Whereas Android 4.1 doesn't actually exist "in the wild" at this point. iOS 6 will definitely be shipping on Apple devices this Fall, and, again, a very large percentage of the installed base will upgrade shortly after its release. At that point, Android 4.1 will, discounting a smattering of geek owned devices, maybe, be on a handful of devices shipping, and almost none of the installed base will upgrade, or even be able to. By the time any significant number of Android devices are running Android 4.1, Apple will have released iOS 7, or maybe even 8, ...


     


    So, even if we grant that Android 4.1 is "more advanced" (whatever that is supposed to mean) than iOS 5, or even iOS 6, that "advantage" is entirely theoretical, and, depending on what is actually meant by "more advanced", may not even be significant or relevant.

  • Reply 78 of 106
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    agramonte wrote: »
    Because the viability of the company is not dependent on the sale of the item or its margin - it is being sold at cost due to that reality, it is a means to an end - That is to your benefit. The Nexus line can not be seen in a vacuum, it is only part of a larger business model... as the consumer, the margin on a Nexus 7 is irrelevant - just as it is irrelevant to Google.

    As a shareholder of Google, I'd want them to be making money on the products they sell, and I'd like to know a ballpark of how much money is made on each. That's only natural, completely reasonable, and common sense.

    As a shareholder of Apple, I'd know that every single unit sold makes money. Why would it be unreasonable to expect the same from someone else, particularly since Apple's model seems to be the only one that actually works?

    You want to talk about consumers, we'll talk about consumers. People with no shares. Why shouldn't they want to know how much they're giving to the company as overhead?

    I love Tesla, so I'll use them as an example. The Tesla Roadster is, what, $100,000? The company has actually come out and said that the price is that high to subsidize the cost of later models. Do you think their consumers wouldn't want to know that? REALLY? That's a great thing to know. It's more information for potential Roadster buyers and it gives a greater incentive to potential buyers of the S and X, knowing their prices are far cheaper than they could/"should" have been.
  • Reply 79 of 106

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geoadm View Post


    Google are quite happy to make no money from Android products. The only reason it exists is so Google has another medium for its advertising and seems a lot of people are quite happy to use badly made and inferior products f they are cheap and not made by Apple.



     


    "Google are"? My OCD is tingling. Google is grouped into a single entity of various business units. We're not talking about the collection of units, but of Google as a whole. You know this because in the next sentence you didn't say, "…so Google have another medium…"


     


    Logical extreme: America are a great country, where one of their largest companies, Apple, make magical products. Doesn't that sound insane? I'm not trying to obnoxiousI–just don't get it.

  • Reply 80 of 106
    agramonteagramonte Posts: 345member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


     


    Companies with lousy margins that struggle to make a profit have a tendency to enter markets (especially news ones) with a lot of me-too promises and high-talk, only to churn out (accordingly) a lot of me-too products that end up turning into abandonware in short order. 


     


    Example: Dell's efforts in the mobile space. 


     


    Apple's profits are a signifier of the the health of the company. It means the money I pump into their ecosystem today won't be wasted because they won't be around tomorrow or because they'll have to do a "reset" of their entire strategy. I feel sorry for folks that got hosed by HP's Touchpad. And RIM's Playbook. The list goes on. 



    Google as a company makes a profit regardless on the margin on the android devices and the Nexus line is not going anywhere - if anything it is being expanded. Also this is not a one company race - the "investment" in the android ecosystem you carry with you to any manufacture so nothing is lost.


     


    This argument is as idiotic as thinking that MAC OSX is garbage because Apple sells it at 20 dollars with very little to no profit - OSX is not the business model. Just like they also give away iBook Author and sells Pages, Keynote and other software at little cost - software's value is not associated to their profit margin to the company - they are a means to an end. That greater function guarantees their existence.


     


    Android and Nexus are not material items to Google - they are becoming a very successful catalyst for their main business. The idea that Google will walk away from it like Dell (who is a hardware maker and needs to make money off their goods so not a comparable example) is unlikely - they have no reason to.

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