Apple never appeals to people looking for a deal. This is not Apple style. they only offer the best products possible. They don't really worry about price. The cheapest Mac is $600, you get a PC with the same specs for less (of course the OS sucks, though). Apple isn't going to make a smaller iPad to market a different audience with a lower price.
I've said this before, but i'll repeat. I really don't believe people who say the 9.7" ipad is too big and they really want a smaller one because of portability. What they all really mean IMO (perhaps subconsciously) is that they want a CHEAPER iPad. Of my observations on these forums and many other sources, the real issue people have for not buying the current iPad is PRICE. So don't fool yourselves. If the current model was $299, I would bet money, that at least 50% of the complaints of it being too big would drop instantly. Plus the market share would significantly increase...but that goes without saying.
I think some people would like a cheaper iPad however I also believe there is a substantial market for a high quality ~7" device at a premium to the other currently being offered. I rarely take my iPad outside of the home except for traveling on vacation just because it is too bulky. I would definitely buy a smaller iPad as long as it had all of the same features my 3 gen has. I expect it would be slightly less expensive due to smaller screen but by the time you add LTE and larger storage. it is not going to be cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
However I've also said that cannibalization is a huge issue. Look what happened to the iPod Classic? As soon as the Mini, Shuffle and subsequently the Nano were released, the Classic because the 3rd choice for about 80%-90% of consumers. I have absolutely no doubt this would happen with an iPad Mini or iPod (larger) Touch. If Apple did something like what I argue (by dropping the current touch for a larger format one) and used the same price structure as the current iPod Touch...the iPad would instantly become a "niche market" device.
I don't think you can draw the same conclusion based on the iPod market. iPod target market was young adults and teenagers. iPad is more of an adult consumer device. Employed adults usually have more disposable income than students. I see many families having more than one iPad per household and a smaller one would be a nice portable device as it easily fits in Mom's hand bag or a jacket pocket. I'm definitely a buyer of 2 mini iPads.
I would disagree with that. A difference of almost 2 inches is quite significant in a tablet sized device, and there is no doubt that the smaller version would be lighter and more portable. I'm quite happy with my 9.7" iPads, so I'm not one of the people who's looking for a smaller iPad, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple releases an iPad mini.
Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model. Which brings me back to the comments I made about choice. Given the choice, many people (i'd say about 2/3's of prospective consumers) would buy a 7.85" iPad over the more useful 9.7" because of price. Sure they'll talk themselves out of the larger version thinking they don't think the size matters. I would hope they would then experience the difference and upgrade to the larger one on the their next time-round. Since I don't want to see the current iPad go the way of the iPod Classic.
But White being White, he'll find out in a couple of months hw wrong he was and then spread talk that Apple was going to do it but there was an issue with this or that and was forced to change plans, blah blah
Or you may find out in a few months that YOU were wrong. You don't have any way of knowing for sure.
1) Steve never said that a different size tablet wouldn't work. He said they found the 9.7" 4:3 to be around the ideal size. His comment about sandpaper on the fingers is about a one-size-fits-all UI. A UI half the size would need an idealized UI just as the iPhone has an idealized UI compared to the iPad.
2) Even if they sold one unit to someone who otherwise wouldn't have bought an iPad they have increased their market. It's obvious that a device half the price of the current iPad would increase user interest but so would giving them away or paying people to take them which is the reason for my glib comment.
That's not what they said. They said "But he said the market opportunity for a smaller iPad could eventually be larger than the current model."
He didn't say that adding a smaller iPad would increase the market (which would be obvious). He said that the market for small ones could be larger than the market for large tablets. That prediction isn's so obvious.
Gosh, where were you people over the last year or so? I've been saying the same thing about the pointlessness of a 7.85" iPad for months but have continuously been dogged-on in these forums for thinking so.
Maybe it's simply a matter that you are not running Apple, so your opinion doesn't control things. Lots of people have stated that they would like a 7-8" iPad. There have been lots of good arguments in favor of it. There have been good arguments against it. So it comes down to which arguments are more compelling, and, more importantly, which ones Apple will choose. Personally, I think the arguments FOR a smaller iPad outweigh the arguments against - but I obviously don't know for sure, either.
[" url="/t/151102/ipad-mini-may-give-apple-larger-market-opportunity-than-current-ipad#post_2140789"]
I would disagree with that. A difference of almost 2 inches is quite significant in a tablet sized device, and there is no doubt that the smaller version would be lighter and more portable. I'm quite happy with my 9.7" iPads, so I'm not one of the people who's looking for a smaller iPad, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple releases an iPad mini.
An 8" iPad is about 2/3 the size of a 10" iPad. A 7" iPad is roughly half the size of a 10". Reducing the size by 1/3 to 1/2 is significant.
Yep, especially this one who rarely shows any balls but just parrots what others put out there without any real insight into whether the notion is logical -- based on Apple history, statements and the market.
Apple has publicly said no to a smaller iPad,
Apple has never said such a thing! I'm not sure where you get your information but everyone knows Applle doesn't comment on future products.
Please don't bring up Steve's comments about sanding down ones finger tips. It is called marketing and has nothing to do with future products. I really don't know why people can't regonize the difference between marketing and policy.
they have pushed the 10 inch model into schools, etc. Apple has a history of not doing things based on 'everyone else is doing it' or 'folks on the blogs/sites want it'. No 7 inch tablet to date has put a dent in the iPad sales (drops in marketshare percent are cause the total went up).
That might have a lot to do with most 7" devices being crap.
These are the things an analyst should be noting him/herself. Not ignoring them and then looking like an idiot when there is no new iPad in the Fall.
Just because something does come out of R&D doesn't mean that Apple isn't working on it. Apple spent like 3/4 of a billion dollars on R&D last quarter, do you really think every effort from those activities will make it to market this year.
That real tv turns out to be a bigger computer display etc
But White being White, he'll find out in a couple of months hw wrong he was and then spread talk that Apple was going to do it but there was an issue with this or that and was forced to change plans, blah blah
White may be wrong or maybe not, but his position is stronger than yours. Yours seems to be based on emotion and a belief that Apple won't seek out new markets for its hardware & software.
I think some people would like a cheaper iPad however I also believe there is a substantial market for a high quality ~7" device at a premium to the other currently being offered. I rarely take my iPad outside of the home except for traveling on vacation just because it is too bulky. I would definitely buy a smaller iPad as long as it had all of the same features my 3 gen has. I expect it would be slightly less expensive due to smaller screen but by the time you add LTE and larger storage. it is not going to be cheap.
I don't think you can draw the same conclusion based on the iPod market. iPod target market was young adults and teenagers. iPad is more of an adult consumer device. Employed adults usually have more disposable income than students. I see many families having more than one iPad per household and a smaller one would be a nice portable device as it easily fits in Mom's hand bag or a jacket pocket. I'm definitely a buyer of 2 mini iPads.
I agree about not taking the iPad EVERYWHERE. I do the same as you...as i've stated. However if you get your wish, then you still have two devices. Phone and iPad mini...because you know the Mini isn't going to have a phone on it. To me, that's pointless. Then the current iPad will be fine. Most people who need two devices, carry a bag for other productivity and misc. items. Granted i'm stating my Opinion of course.
I would strongly disagree with your conclusion about who the target audience and consumer base is for the iPad vs. iPod. Every kid i've come into contact with would rather have the iPad over the iPod Touch. These are devices that have no true demographic. And at Apple's last keynote, the "Success Stories" video showing the many uses of iPad proves my point.
Why does nobody mention the iPod Touch in these articles? Wouldn't it be more likely that Apple releases a slightly larger iPod touch to replace the existing one? Much like the rumored larger iPhone. The Touch has become a nice gaming platform that could benefit form the larger screen realestate. No way does Apple release an entirelly new tablet size in addition to the iPad and Touch.
An 8" iPad is about 2/3 the size of a 10" iPad. A 7" iPad is roughly half the size of a 10". Reducing the size by 1/3 to 1/2 is significant.
I'd like it smaller. I drew up a size that I would like. The overall device would be 7.25 x 4.5 with a diagonal screen size of 7.25". that would actually fit nicely in the back pocket of Levis 501. Not that I would carry it there for very long but it would be nice to be able to put it away in the back pocket for a few minutes while doing something that required two hands.
I don't consider a $300 device (or even $200) as being disposable. The reason I want a smaller iOS tablet is for size alone. It would just be easier to carry it with me. When I travel between cities I would much rather carry a smaller device in my backpack... but not iPhone small.
Same with me: I'd like something more portable than my iPad and more usable than my iPhone for extensive travel purposes: guidebooks, maps etc.
It is all about choice and products that fit user needs. Apple was very successful with the iPods for this very reason. It isn't a question of splitting efforts but rather leaving no stone unturned.
Apple already owns the market with the current 'big' iPad. It has the best sales, best marketshare and mindshare of the current tablet hardware. Why split their efforts when they are already winning
What is it that makes some think the current iPad is too large, especially for children. I have a seven-year-old nephew who, upon arriving for a visit, invariably asks if he can play with my iPad. Absolutely loves it.
Apple already offers a perfectly viable $400 iPad that it can continue to sell with an even lower price in future. For instance, when the next iPad arrives early next year, what would prevent Apple from still selling the iPad 2 at let's say $350 (let's make it $349). Combined with a Touch rumoured to get a larger screen, the price points will be covered for tablets. The Touch is, after all, a tablet, every bit as much as the iPad is one.
Watching movies on the current iPad is an entirely viable activity. Enough screen real estate to give movies the room to breath, to present well. Surfing. e-reading. You name it. The iPad is just about right for that activity.
Portability? That's what the iPod Touch is intended for and the iPhone.
Apple owns the tablet market and yet there are those that would have Apple produce products that are more like their competitors who are floundering in this market. Where's the logic in that?
If folks were really that much more eager to use a 7-inch tablet instead of the 10-inch iPad, why is the 10-inch iPad the runaway success in this market segment?
The demographic is people with money. Sure kids want them but their parents are the ones who have to buy it. Even so, kids are not likely to take the iPad outside the home except when traveling with their parents.
To the posters claiming they'd like a smaller iPad that was more convenient to carry around I have the following question: Is is the assumption that upon making the screen smaller, the enjoyment of using said device is to remain unaltered?
1) Steve never said that a different size tablet wouldn't work. He said they found the 9.7" 4:3 to be around the ideal size. His comment about sandpaper on the fingers is about a one-size-fits-all UI. A UI half the size would need an idealized UI just as the iPhone has an idealized UI compared to the iPad.
I'm not sure why people can't grasp that Steve was marketing a product when those comments where made. Nothing he said had any indication at all about future products. Rather the comments where about the current product and showing it in the best light possible. I'm not sure how people can turn marketing speak into concrete company policy on future products. The iPad was described as "ideal size" as that is what they had for sale at the time.
2) Even if they sold one unit to someone who otherwise wouldn't have bought an iPad they have increased their market. It's obvious that a device half the price of the current iPad would increase user interest but so would giving them away or paying people to take them which is the reason for my glib comment.
One thing is for certain Apple won't market something they can't make a profit on. So true or not, we won't see a new Mini iPad unless Apple has a way to make money off it.
The demographic is people with money. Sure kids want them but their parents are the ones who have to buy it. Even so, kids are not likely to take the iPad outside the home except when traveling with their parents.
Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model.
Of course I agree with that. iPad apps are designed for the 9.7" device. I have a ton of apps, and I even mentioned the other day, that certain apps that have a lot of buttons, knobs and sliders will look cluttered when used on the smaller device, making it more cumbersome to use.
Those people who choose the iPad mini will be sacrificing a little bit of usability in exchange for portability.
I'm so sick of all these iPad mini rumours. Steve Jobs had already said he doesn't think a 7" tablet will make for a good user experience. And I can't see Apple selling a $200 device unless they want to blow up their iPod Touch market. There is also no incentive for Apple to sell a tablet at $200 since they will make next to nothing in profit. It is not in their DNA to sell things at less than 30% margin. If you look under the hood of a hypothetical iPad mini, all the components inside are the same as a 9.7" iPad. The only difference is a smaller battery (which also mean less runtime), a smaller screen and a smaller case. This would save Apple less than $50 in build material. So how can they justify dropping the price from $500 to $200-$250 as most people are expecting for the base unit? Those who buy a 7" tablet now will eventually want a bigger screen in the future anyways. And if you're a guy who can't handle a 9.7" device, maybe you should go buy yourself a purse and buy that new Google tablet.
Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model.
Why do people express opinions as if they are facts?
An 8" iPad would be MORE usable for some people and some purposes. For example, for someone who simply wants to read books and who finds the 10" iPad to be too large to comfortably handle, an 8" iPad would be far more usable.
I went from version one to version three iPad and can say frankly that it was a huge increase in user satisfaction. The iPad 3 just works that much better with far fewer RAM issues. So I would imagine your wife going to a version four machine will be a massive upgrade resulting in a significant satisfaction upgrade!
You may not know it but your comments highlight why I think a Mini iPad will be a huge success. It is all about personal needs. At this point people have enough experience with iOS devices that can make educated decisions about what best fits their needs.
My Wife will always want a larger iPad but I won't buy one for myself until there is a smaller one available. If I bought a new 7.85" iPad tomorrow we would still upgrade my Wife's v.1 next year. So market share would definitely increase if people followed our lead.
To the posters claiming they'd like a smaller iPad that was more convenient to carry around I have the following question: Is is the assumption that upon making the screen smaller, the enjoyment of using said device is to remain unaltered?
Actually the enjoyment would be much better since I would actually have the device with me. You know the old saying 'the best camera is the one you have with you'.
Comments
Apple never appeals to people looking for a deal. This is not Apple style. they only offer the best products possible. They don't really worry about price. The cheapest Mac is $600, you get a PC with the same specs for less (of course the OS sucks, though). Apple isn't going to make a smaller iPad to market a different audience with a lower price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
I've said this before, but i'll repeat. I really don't believe people who say the 9.7" ipad is too big and they really want a smaller one because of portability. What they all really mean IMO (perhaps subconsciously) is that they want a CHEAPER iPad. Of my observations on these forums and many other sources, the real issue people have for not buying the current iPad is PRICE. So don't fool yourselves. If the current model was $299, I would bet money, that at least 50% of the complaints of it being too big would drop instantly. Plus the market share would significantly increase...but that goes without saying.
I think some people would like a cheaper iPad however I also believe there is a substantial market for a high quality ~7" device at a premium to the other currently being offered. I rarely take my iPad outside of the home except for traveling on vacation just because it is too bulky. I would definitely buy a smaller iPad as long as it had all of the same features my 3 gen has. I expect it would be slightly less expensive due to smaller screen but by the time you add LTE and larger storage. it is not going to be cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
However I've also said that cannibalization is a huge issue. Look what happened to the iPod Classic? As soon as the Mini, Shuffle and subsequently the Nano were released, the Classic because the 3rd choice for about 80%-90% of consumers. I have absolutely no doubt this would happen with an iPad Mini or iPod (larger) Touch. If Apple did something like what I argue (by dropping the current touch for a larger format one) and used the same price structure as the current iPod Touch...the iPad would instantly become a "niche market" device.
I don't think you can draw the same conclusion based on the iPod market. iPod target market was young adults and teenagers. iPad is more of an adult consumer device. Employed adults usually have more disposable income than students. I see many families having more than one iPad per household and a smaller one would be a nice portable device as it easily fits in Mom's hand bag or a jacket pocket. I'm definitely a buyer of 2 mini iPads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I would disagree with that. A difference of almost 2 inches is quite significant in a tablet sized device, and there is no doubt that the smaller version would be lighter and more portable. I'm quite happy with my 9.7" iPads, so I'm not one of the people who's looking for a smaller iPad, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple releases an iPad mini.
Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model. Which brings me back to the comments I made about choice. Given the choice, many people (i'd say about 2/3's of prospective consumers) would buy a 7.85" iPad over the more useful 9.7" because of price. Sure they'll talk themselves out of the larger version thinking they don't think the size matters. I would hope they would then experience the difference and upgrade to the larger one on the their next time-round. Since I don't want to see the current iPad go the way of the iPod Classic.
Or you may find out in a few months that YOU were wrong. You don't have any way of knowing for sure.
That's not what they said. They said "But he said the market opportunity for a smaller iPad could eventually be larger than the current model."
He didn't say that adding a smaller iPad would increase the market (which would be obvious). He said that the market for small ones could be larger than the market for large tablets. That prediction isn's so obvious.
Maybe it's simply a matter that you are not running Apple, so your opinion doesn't control things. Lots of people have stated that they would like a 7-8" iPad. There have been lots of good arguments in favor of it. There have been good arguments against it. So it comes down to which arguments are more compelling, and, more importantly, which ones Apple will choose. Personally, I think the arguments FOR a smaller iPad outweigh the arguments against - but I obviously don't know for sure, either.
An 8" iPad is about 2/3 the size of a 10" iPad. A 7" iPad is roughly half the size of a 10". Reducing the size by 1/3 to 1/2 is significant.
Please don't bring up Steve's comments about sanding down ones finger tips. It is called marketing and has nothing to do with future products. I really don't know why people can't regonize the difference between marketing and policy. That might have a lot to do with most 7" devices being crap. Just because something does come out of R&D doesn't mean that Apple isn't working on it. Apple spent like 3/4 of a billion dollars on R&D last quarter, do you really think every effort from those activities will make it to market this year.
White may be wrong or maybe not, but his position is stronger than yours. Yours seems to be based on emotion and a belief that Apple won't seek out new markets for its hardware & software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I think some people would like a cheaper iPad however I also believe there is a substantial market for a high quality ~7" device at a premium to the other currently being offered. I rarely take my iPad outside of the home except for traveling on vacation just because it is too bulky. I would definitely buy a smaller iPad as long as it had all of the same features my 3 gen has. I expect it would be slightly less expensive due to smaller screen but by the time you add LTE and larger storage. it is not going to be cheap.
I don't think you can draw the same conclusion based on the iPod market. iPod target market was young adults and teenagers. iPad is more of an adult consumer device. Employed adults usually have more disposable income than students. I see many families having more than one iPad per household and a smaller one would be a nice portable device as it easily fits in Mom's hand bag or a jacket pocket. I'm definitely a buyer of 2 mini iPads.
I agree about not taking the iPad EVERYWHERE. I do the same as you...as i've stated. However if you get your wish, then you still have two devices. Phone and iPad mini...because you know the Mini isn't going to have a phone on it. To me, that's pointless. Then the current iPad will be fine. Most people who need two devices, carry a bag for other productivity and misc. items. Granted i'm stating my Opinion of course.
I would strongly disagree with your conclusion about who the target audience and consumer base is for the iPad vs. iPod. Every kid i've come into contact with would rather have the iPad over the iPod Touch. These are devices that have no true demographic. And at Apple's last keynote, the "Success Stories" video showing the many uses of iPad proves my point.
In any event why is there such a resistance to a Mini iPad, such a device could be extremely useful for many users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
An 8" iPad is about 2/3 the size of a 10" iPad. A 7" iPad is roughly half the size of a 10". Reducing the size by 1/3 to 1/2 is significant.
I'd like it smaller. I drew up a size that I would like. The overall device would be 7.25 x 4.5 with a diagonal screen size of 7.25". that would actually fit nicely in the back pocket of Levis 501. Not that I would carry it there for very long but it would be nice to be able to put it away in the back pocket for a few minutes while doing something that required two hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I don't consider a $300 device (or even $200) as being disposable. The reason I want a smaller iOS tablet is for size alone. It would just be easier to carry it with me. When I travel between cities I would much rather carry a smaller device in my backpack... but not iPhone small.
Same with me: I'd like something more portable than my iPad and more usable than my iPhone for extensive travel purposes: guidebooks, maps etc.
What is it that makes some think the current iPad is too large, especially for children. I have a seven-year-old nephew who, upon arriving for a visit, invariably asks if he can play with my iPad. Absolutely loves it.
Apple already offers a perfectly viable $400 iPad that it can continue to sell with an even lower price in future. For instance, when the next iPad arrives early next year, what would prevent Apple from still selling the iPad 2 at let's say $350 (let's make it $349). Combined with a Touch rumoured to get a larger screen, the price points will be covered for tablets. The Touch is, after all, a tablet, every bit as much as the iPad is one.
Watching movies on the current iPad is an entirely viable activity. Enough screen real estate to give movies the room to breath, to present well. Surfing. e-reading. You name it. The iPad is just about right for that activity.
Portability? That's what the iPod Touch is intended for and the iPhone.
Apple owns the tablet market and yet there are those that would have Apple produce products that are more like their competitors who are floundering in this market. Where's the logic in that?
If folks were really that much more eager to use a 7-inch tablet instead of the 10-inch iPad, why is the 10-inch iPad the runaway success in this market segment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
These are devices that have no true demographic.
The demographic is people with money. Sure kids want them but their parents are the ones who have to buy it. Even so, kids are not likely to take the iPad outside the home except when traveling with their parents.
To the posters claiming they'd like a smaller iPad that was more convenient to carry around I have the following question: Is is the assumption that upon making the screen smaller, the enjoyment of using said device is to remain unaltered?
One thing is for certain Apple won't market something they can't make a profit on. So true or not, we won't see a new Mini iPad unless Apple has a way to make money off it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The demographic is people with money. Sure kids want them but their parents are the ones who have to buy it. Even so, kids are not likely to take the iPad outside the home except when traveling with their parents.
that's not a demographic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model.
Of course I agree with that. iPad apps are designed for the 9.7" device. I have a ton of apps, and I even mentioned the other day, that certain apps that have a lot of buttons, knobs and sliders will look cluttered when used on the smaller device, making it more cumbersome to use.
Those people who choose the iPad mini will be sacrificing a little bit of usability in exchange for portability.
I'm so sick of all these iPad mini rumours. Steve Jobs had already said he doesn't think a 7" tablet will make for a good user experience. And I can't see Apple selling a $200 device unless they want to blow up their iPod Touch market. There is also no incentive for Apple to sell a tablet at $200 since they will make next to nothing in profit. It is not in their DNA to sell things at less than 30% margin. If you look under the hood of a hypothetical iPad mini, all the components inside are the same as a 9.7" iPad. The only difference is a smaller battery (which also mean less runtime), a smaller screen and a smaller case. This would save Apple less than $50 in build material. So how can they justify dropping the price from $500 to $200-$250 as most people are expecting for the base unit? Those who buy a 7" tablet now will eventually want a bigger screen in the future anyways. And if you're a guy who can't handle a 9.7" device, maybe you should go buy yourself a purse and buy that new Google tablet.
Why do people express opinions as if they are facts?
An 8" iPad would be MORE usable for some people and some purposes. For example, for someone who simply wants to read books and who finds the 10" iPad to be too large to comfortably handle, an 8" iPad would be far more usable.
You may not know it but your comments highlight why I think a Mini iPad will be a huge success. It is all about personal needs. At this point people have enough experience with iOS devices that can make educated decisions about what best fits their needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
To the posters claiming they'd like a smaller iPad that was more convenient to carry around I have the following question: Is is the assumption that upon making the screen smaller, the enjoyment of using said device is to remain unaltered?
Actually the enjoyment would be much better since I would actually have the device with me. You know the old saying 'the best camera is the one you have with you'.