Assuming your comment is meant to be sarcastic, no where in that article does it quote Jobs saying they will never make a 7" tablet or that it's impossible for a 7" tablet to find a market niche. Jobs even goes above and beyond by specifically qualifying his statements to refer to the current 7" tablets being DOA... and he was right.
WOW. I am in awe of you. Answer is: Steve Jobs is no longer running Apple. Tim is. What Steve thought no longer matters. Steve did not think 7" was a viable size for a tablet. Please try harder to think about things objectively.
WOW. I am in awe of you. Answer is: Steve Jobs is no longer running Apple. Tim is. What Steve thought no longer matters. Steve did not think 7" was a viable size for a tablet. Please try harder to think about things objectively.
WTF!!??
You entered into the Steve discussion with that article. Must not have gone your way so now you state the above (which really doesn't make sense anyway). Why didn't you just say that in the first place.
Why does nobody mention the iPod Touch in these articles? Wouldn't it be more likely that Apple releases a slightly larger iPod touch to replace the existing one? Much like the rumored larger iPhone. The Touch has become a nice gaming platform that could benefit form the larger screen realestate. No way does Apple release an entirelly new tablet size in addition to the iPad and Touch.
I agree 100%. The only thing that trips me up is what to call it. If you call it an iPod touch, anyone who knows what that is will already have an idea of what that means, which is an iPhone without the phone. If you call it an iPad that'd probably help it to sell more, but risk lowering sales of the original size larger iPad. iPad mini is the default option, but you may think about having to change the name of the original size iPad to include size. The answer is probably simpler than I'm making it out to be.
To the posters claiming they'd like a smaller iPad that was more convenient to carry around I have the following question: Is is the assumption that upon making the screen smaller, the enjoyment of using said device is to remain unaltered?
In my experience I cannot enjoy what I do not have with me.
Said device would be more enjoyable than my current alternative: my iPhone 4s (and at some point my new iPhone). Which is why I'd be resistant to an allegedly 3G quality screen for some alleged "price" goal.
Faster, sharper: better. Cheaper? Do Not Care. Anything free of a contract is cheap, period.
While I do not have a lot of respect for the intelligence of the average American consumer, I think it's a huge stretch to think that anyone would expect that at $299 device that's 8" diagonal would be the same as a $499 device that's 10" diagonal. Obviously, they're different devices.
That is not, however, to say that one can't make a high quality smaller device. Your argument suggests that Apple should only make a 13" MBA because the 11" would be inferior. They should only make a 64 GB iPhone or iPad because anything less would be inferior. They should only make dual CPU Mac Pros because a single CPU is inferior. For that matter, they should drop the 15" MBP and only make a 19" laptop.
Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device.
That's not my argument. Laptops are an entirely different beast. For one thing, while weight matters with a laptop, it matters a whole lot less than a tablet. Getting the weight right on a tablet means that a screen larger than the current iPad just wouldn't work. It's not just about weight but also about how comfortable the device is to hold. You don't hold a laptop.
So that means there is an upper limit on the tablet, which the current iPad has reached.
Going down the other way, the issue is how much screen one needs to watch movies, e-read, browse, play games and so on and so on. You can do the preceding on a smaller screen, as we've seen with the many smartphones out there. On the other hand, try doing those activities on let's say an iPod Touch and then switch immediately to the iPad and the difference is transformational. Still, there is a need for devices sized like the iPhone and the Touch. You live with the restricted user experience because you need something that will slip into a pant pocket. The Touch and the iPhone are good at doing activities like those listed considering their size. They are not, in absolute terms, good at them but they are impressively usable considering the severe size limitations.
The reason for offering assorted grades of laptop is that you have end users with very different uses in mind. Not everyone is editing video footage in the field and so the smaller, less powerful machines are offered because many people have much less demanding activities intended for their laptop. There is considerably less of that going on with the iPad sort of tablet as envisioned by Apple. The apps that are run and the system demands vary little, if at all, between users. No matter who you are, one strength of iPad does cover all the bases. Even if one wanted to do much more demanding work with an iPad, at this stage there really isn't the option in terms of software to do so. And there is a cost issue as well. The difference in price between the least expensive Apple laptop and the most expensive is about $1,800. In contrast, if a 7-inch iPad were to come to market, we would probably be talking a difference more along the lines of about $529 ($300 for the smaller iPad vs. $829 for the range-topping iPad 3). For the roughly $100 in difference between a smaller iPad and a comparable larger model, it's hardly worth the bother.
The point is that there has to be a point to a 7-inch tablet vs. the current form factor. The current iPad is reasonably priced at $399 US, is light enough for most to use it for prolonged periods, and in terms of screen size in regards to what the machine is used for, there is little if any compromise. If Apple wished to, they could continue to make the perfectly viable iPad 2 and drop the price even further.
The smaller iPad would likely have a similar processor to the current iPad and hence deliver similar performance but using a much smaller screen, it would be far less enjoyable to watch movies on, browse on, e-read on, certainly type on using the virtual keyboard which would shrink dramatically. The experience would be much closer to using a Touch or iPhone than the current iPad. The bad news is that the gain in terms of portability would be so minor as to be not worth mentioning. You still couldn't pocket the device (certainly not my pockets) and hence you still couldn't use it in many situations in which a Touch could be used. I carry around a Touch with me at work but a 7-inch tablet would simply be out of the question. If it's not pocketable, it's just not more portable enough than the current iPad to bother over. if the price difference between the 7-inch base model and the 10-inch iPad was less than $100, which it would be, that's not enough money to truly matter.
I can see the point of offering a powerful laptop like the top-of-the-line Retina Display Pro. It is aimed at professionals who want something they can use in the field able to handle demanding tasks. It is also logical to offer consumers a much more modest laptop at the other end of the spectrum. If one isn't a demanding professional yet one wants a decent grade of laptop, the base Air is a good choice.
No such obvious point can be offered to putting a 7-inch iPad into the mix. It is not less expensive enough or more portable enough, compared to the current iPad, to justify its existence. The Touch makes sense because it is substantially more portable. The various memory capacity options make sense because not everyone has the same memory needs. And making network connectivity optional also makes sense because many of us can do just fine via wi-fi. But asking consumers to settle for a much poorer overall experience for less than $100 in price savings and for insignificant portability advantages is a poor trade-off.
My point is that it's not even a trade-off that many consumers would fully grasp. It's easy to figure out what sort of trade-offs you're making if you buy a basic Macbook Air instead of a Pro Retina model. The price difference is dramatic and expectations would be tempered accordingly. If you're paying $100 less (or whatever) to buy the 7-inch iPad vs. the 10-inch model, wouldn't it be human nature to think that in terms of the user experience it should be such a small difference that you shouldn't hardly notice? That would lead to disappointment and a user experience that would tend to make owning an iPad a less satisfying experience. That opens the door to other manufacturers being able to at least match the Apple experience. You have to raise the bar, not lower it, if you want to distance yourself from the competition. Coming out with a smaller iPad would most definitely amount to lowering the bar, giving competitors a chance to catch up. Instead, Apple upped the ante by making the iPad 2 a less expensive option and bringing out a Retina iPad that other manufacturers just can't touch right now. In January, the next iteration of the iPad will arrive and I'm betting it's a lighter device that runs cooler than the current iPad. Since competitors have failed to catch up yet to the iPad 2, Apple can continue to sell that perfectly capable model and drop the price even further. If you can offer a $349 iPad 2, a class-leading iPad starting at $499 and a new range of Touch models with a somewhat larger screen, it begs the question, what for the 7-inch iPad? It would not have the portability of the Touch and would be all of $50 cheaper than the starter model in the 10-inch range of tablets. People would buy it and find themselves liking it a lot less than the 10-inch iPad and that would only play into the hands of competing tablet makers. I say this because let's face it, you don't need to be a rocket scientist or do much testing to figure out that watching a movie, to give just one example, would be far less enjoyable on a 7-inch device vs. the 10-inch model. It feels jut right to be watching a film on the 10-inch version and as such it is bound to seem off, in some fashion, to be watching one on a much smaller screen. Watch it on the current device and you come away pleased with the experience. Do it on a 7-inch screen and the feeling would be that there was something missing. Multiply that by pretty much every activity the iPad is designed for. Such a downgrade to save roughly $50, seriously, very unApplelike. Jobs would never stand for it.
What? The store won't have samples of both. Why would people be smart enough to know that a Corolla aint a Lexus but yet too dumb to realize that 7" isn't 10". This is the smartphone generation after all.
Besides, if people are buying for price then they'll most likely buy the Nexus (their mistake), but those people that choose iOS will be buying based on total experience (ie. ecosystem) or satisfaction with previous Apple products.
Remembering, of course, that you can look at this 2 ways. A lot of these people, if not most, will be moving up from a 4" screen smartphone to a 7" screen tablet. The change in screen size will be phenomenal. No disappointment whatsoever. You said so yourself.
[ Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device. - jragosta ]
Exactly.
Wrong. I would be confident that if a customer went to an Apple Store to buy their iPad, they would have a good shot at knowing what they were in for but iPads are sold all over the place, including the aforementioned Walmart. At our nearby Walmart the iPad on display is behind a glass case and not accessible to be tried out. Even if samples are available to be tested out, not everybody bothers to avail themselves of that opportunity. And they are not always purchased by the person who will use it. If purchased as a gift, for example, it would be rather easy for the purchaser to go with a $299 iPad 7-incher vs. a $399 10-inch model because budget considerations would make the cheaper model seem like the better option.
And what applications benefit from running on a smaller tablet? More real estate hurts no application that I can think of.
Some would like a lighter tablet for prolonged use and others to fit into purses and the like that the 10-inch model doesn't. I believe lighter is a good thing for a handheld device and that is something that Apple needs to put effort into. It's disappointing that the newest iPad is heavier than the iPad 2. It has to trend the other way. Yet the solution isn't to make the screen smaller, hence diminishing the user experience, but rather making the iPad lighter. Technology allowing for that is on the way. It always is. As for making a tablet that some people can squeeze into smaller spaces, I suspect the number of people for which this matters is so small that it's just not worth bothering over. I have an iPad and consider it to be a reasonably portable device. For true portability I turn to my Touch.
If you're paying $100 less (or whatever) to buy the 7-inch iPad vs. the 10-inch model, wouldn't it be human nature to think that in terms of the user experience it should be such a small difference that you shouldn't hardly notice? That would lead to disappointment and a user experience that would tend to make owning an iPad a less satisfying experience.
You keep saying this as if you are sure these buyers are going to be disappointed. If they are first time iPad buyers they have nothing to compare their experience with and if they are experienced iPad buyers they know full well what they are buying. In the event there is an iPad mini released there will be so much press out there that it would be almost impossible for an iPad purchase to be uninformed. They will buy it on recommendation or research but not by accident. Even if it is an impulse buy the mere fact that it has an Apple logo on the back makes you an instant celebrity. You are worrying about something that will never become an issue.
That's not my argument. Laptops are an entirely different beast. For one thing, while weight matters with a laptop, it matters a whole lot less than a tablet. Getting the weight right on a tablet means that a screen larger than the current iPad just wouldn't work. It's not just about weight but also about how comfortable the device is to hold. You don't hold a laptop.
You wasted a lot of time to keep restating the same unfounded opinion. There is no rational reason why it's OK to have 2 sizes of laptops but not 2 sizes of iPad. It just doesn't make sense.
When the iPad was first announced people speculated that business suits would quickly be available with inside pockets large enough to accommodate them. That never happened because the iPad is just way too big to fit in any inside suit pocket. A 7-ish device just might make the prediction come true because it is almost pocket-able as is. Men are carrying satchels of various sorts nowadays but still few carry around an iPad because they are way too large and a little heavy to lug around all day. The 7-ish size again is the perfect size for a mobile tablet IMO and you know if Apple makes one the user experience will be top notch.
You wasted a lot of time to keep restating the same unfounded opinion. There is no rational reason why it's OK to have 2 sizes of laptops but not 2 sizes of iPad. It just doesn't make sense.
Yeah I don't understand why he is pushing the Touch as the only suitable mobile device. I can't imagine a 7" device not being much more comfortable reading a book while commuting, typing emails or even surfing the web than a 3.5" device. I don't think the 7" will be ideal for office productivity apps but I don't even like trying to do that sort of work on a full size iPad. For that I prefer at least 15" MBP. I am definitely a buyer of a mini iPad not ever having seen one.
When the iPad was first announced people speculated that business suits would quickly be available with inside pockets large enough to accommodate them. That never happened because the iPad is just way too big to fit in any inside suit pocket. A 7-ish device just might make the prediction come true because it is almost pocket-able as is. Men are carrying satchels of various sorts nowadays but still few carry around an iPad because they are way too large and a little heavy to lug around all day. The 7-ish size again is the perfect size for a mobile tablet IMO and you know if Apple makes one the user experience will be top notch.
A business suit pocket for a 7" tablet? Are you kidding? As far as "men carrying satchels", the majority of men I see wearing suits on the train in the morning (including me) also carry briefcases or bags of some kind. Most, if not all of those bags contain a notebook computer, ereader or tablet (or sometimes more than one of the above). If I polled the suit-wearers I would bet that 90% would laugh at the suggestion of an "iPad pocket" of any size in their suits. I don't even like putting my phone in my suit pocket. You're pitching this to the wrong market.
A business suit pocket for a 7" tablet? Are you kidding? As far as "men carrying satchels", the majority of men I see wearing suits on the train in the morning (including me) also carry briefcases or bags of some kind. Most, if not all of those bags contain a notebook computer, ereader or tablet (or sometimes more than one of the above). If I polled the suit-wearers I would bet that 90% would laugh at the suggestion of an "iPad pocket" of any size in their suits. I don't even like putting my phone in my suit pocket. You're pitching this to the wrong market.
I am not pitching it but if the inside pocket was just a half of an inch or so wider it would just work and you still would not have to use it for a tablet if you didn't want to. I was simply comparing it to a kangaroo sized pouch needed to carry an regular iPad, which is why they don't make them. I wish the pockets were a bit bigger anyway for international travel so my passport wallet would fit more easily. International travel is the only time I wear a suit but I still think if the pocket was there guys would use it. You know when you go out for lunch or to a meeting, when you wouldn't mind having your iPad mini with you but don't want to carry a briefcase. It is not like it would cost any more than the same suit without a larger pocket and it certainly wouldn't be in their advertising but what's the harm?
I'd like it smaller. I drew up a size that I would like. The overall device would be 7.25 x 4.5 with a diagonal screen size of 7.25". that would actually fit nicely in the back pocket of Levis 501. Not that I would carry it there for very long but it would be nice to be able to put it away in the back pocket for a few minutes while doing something that required two hands.
I have one pair of jeans where both front pockets are screwed, and as a result I sometimes put my iPhone in my back pocket (ass pocket? What do Americans call it?) but am always scared to forget when going to sit down. So I take it out of my back pocket again - quickly. You don't have that 'fear' with an iPad Mini?
Edit: just saw your 'back pocket' but too lazy to edit my post
A 7" tablet weighs something close to 12 ounces. There's no way I'd put a 3/4lb device in an inside suit pocket. They're business suits, not overalls.
Point taken. I still would buy the iPad mini and I also wish the pockets were slightly larger, but jackets are getting shorter and narrower lately so probably not.
I have one pair of jeans where both front pockets are screwed, and as a result I sometimes put my iPhone in my back pocket (ass pocket? What do Americans call it?) but am always scared to forget when going to sit down. So I take it out of my back pocket again - quickly. You don't have that 'fear' with an iPad Mini?
Edit: just saw your 'back pocket' but too lazy to edit my post
Yea I see a lot of younger girls with the phone in the back pocket and a lot of them are using phones with cracked screens. I can sort of put two and two together. I think I would only put a iPad mini in the back pocket temporarily but since it would be kind of a tight fit and a bit large I would hope that I wouldn't accidentally forget and sit on it.
My grand kids (7 to 12 years old) love their mom's iPad. It is a little big for them and it gets dropped quite often. Still un-broken to my constant amazement. I would buy three smaller iPads for them to use and they could leave mom's alone. Plus, that would end the bickering of who's turn it is to use the iPad. They travel more then most and get school updates via email. I think this would be a great item for small hands yet large enough to do homework. The iPod touch wasn't a big hit with them but they used it until they lost it.
Comments
oops
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Assuming your comment is meant to be sarcastic, no where in that article does it quote Jobs saying they will never make a 7" tablet or that it's impossible for a 7" tablet to find a market niche. Jobs even goes above and beyond by specifically qualifying his statements to refer to the current 7" tablets being DOA... and he was right.
WOW. I am in awe of you. Answer is: Steve Jobs is no longer running Apple. Tim is. What Steve thought no longer matters. Steve did not think 7" was a viable size for a tablet. Please try harder to think about things objectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx
WOW. I am in awe of you. Answer is: Steve Jobs is no longer running Apple. Tim is. What Steve thought no longer matters. Steve did not think 7" was a viable size for a tablet. Please try harder to think about things objectively.
WTF!!??
You entered into the Steve discussion with that article. Must not have gone your way so now you state the above (which really doesn't make sense anyway). Why didn't you just say that in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xclntgig
Why does nobody mention the iPod Touch in these articles? Wouldn't it be more likely that Apple releases a slightly larger iPod touch to replace the existing one? Much like the rumored larger iPhone. The Touch has become a nice gaming platform that could benefit form the larger screen realestate. No way does Apple release an entirelly new tablet size in addition to the iPad and Touch.
I agree 100%. The only thing that trips me up is what to call it. If you call it an iPod touch, anyone who knows what that is will already have an idea of what that means, which is an iPhone without the phone. If you call it an iPad that'd probably help it to sell more, but risk lowering sales of the original size larger iPad. iPad mini is the default option, but you may think about having to change the name of the original size iPad to include size. The answer is probably simpler than I'm making it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
To the posters claiming they'd like a smaller iPad that was more convenient to carry around I have the following question: Is is the assumption that upon making the screen smaller, the enjoyment of using said device is to remain unaltered?
In my experience I cannot enjoy what I do not have with me.
Said device would be more enjoyable than my current alternative: my iPhone 4s (and at some point my new iPhone). Which is why I'd be resistant to an allegedly 3G quality screen for some alleged "price" goal.
Faster, sharper: better. Cheaper? Do Not Care. Anything free of a contract is cheap, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
While I do not have a lot of respect for the intelligence of the average American consumer, I think it's a huge stretch to think that anyone would expect that at $299 device that's 8" diagonal would be the same as a $499 device that's 10" diagonal. Obviously, they're different devices.
That is not, however, to say that one can't make a high quality smaller device. Your argument suggests that Apple should only make a 13" MBA because the 11" would be inferior. They should only make a 64 GB iPhone or iPad because anything less would be inferior. They should only make dual CPU Mac Pros because a single CPU is inferior. For that matter, they should drop the 15" MBP and only make a 19" laptop.
Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device.
That's not my argument. Laptops are an entirely different beast. For one thing, while weight matters with a laptop, it matters a whole lot less than a tablet. Getting the weight right on a tablet means that a screen larger than the current iPad just wouldn't work. It's not just about weight but also about how comfortable the device is to hold. You don't hold a laptop.
So that means there is an upper limit on the tablet, which the current iPad has reached.
Going down the other way, the issue is how much screen one needs to watch movies, e-read, browse, play games and so on and so on. You can do the preceding on a smaller screen, as we've seen with the many smartphones out there. On the other hand, try doing those activities on let's say an iPod Touch and then switch immediately to the iPad and the difference is transformational. Still, there is a need for devices sized like the iPhone and the Touch. You live with the restricted user experience because you need something that will slip into a pant pocket. The Touch and the iPhone are good at doing activities like those listed considering their size. They are not, in absolute terms, good at them but they are impressively usable considering the severe size limitations.
The reason for offering assorted grades of laptop is that you have end users with very different uses in mind. Not everyone is editing video footage in the field and so the smaller, less powerful machines are offered because many people have much less demanding activities intended for their laptop. There is considerably less of that going on with the iPad sort of tablet as envisioned by Apple. The apps that are run and the system demands vary little, if at all, between users. No matter who you are, one strength of iPad does cover all the bases. Even if one wanted to do much more demanding work with an iPad, at this stage there really isn't the option in terms of software to do so. And there is a cost issue as well. The difference in price between the least expensive Apple laptop and the most expensive is about $1,800. In contrast, if a 7-inch iPad were to come to market, we would probably be talking a difference more along the lines of about $529 ($300 for the smaller iPad vs. $829 for the range-topping iPad 3). For the roughly $100 in difference between a smaller iPad and a comparable larger model, it's hardly worth the bother.
The point is that there has to be a point to a 7-inch tablet vs. the current form factor. The current iPad is reasonably priced at $399 US, is light enough for most to use it for prolonged periods, and in terms of screen size in regards to what the machine is used for, there is little if any compromise. If Apple wished to, they could continue to make the perfectly viable iPad 2 and drop the price even further.
The smaller iPad would likely have a similar processor to the current iPad and hence deliver similar performance but using a much smaller screen, it would be far less enjoyable to watch movies on, browse on, e-read on, certainly type on using the virtual keyboard which would shrink dramatically. The experience would be much closer to using a Touch or iPhone than the current iPad. The bad news is that the gain in terms of portability would be so minor as to be not worth mentioning. You still couldn't pocket the device (certainly not my pockets) and hence you still couldn't use it in many situations in which a Touch could be used. I carry around a Touch with me at work but a 7-inch tablet would simply be out of the question. If it's not pocketable, it's just not more portable enough than the current iPad to bother over. if the price difference between the 7-inch base model and the 10-inch iPad was less than $100, which it would be, that's not enough money to truly matter.
I can see the point of offering a powerful laptop like the top-of-the-line Retina Display Pro. It is aimed at professionals who want something they can use in the field able to handle demanding tasks. It is also logical to offer consumers a much more modest laptop at the other end of the spectrum. If one isn't a demanding professional yet one wants a decent grade of laptop, the base Air is a good choice.
No such obvious point can be offered to putting a 7-inch iPad into the mix. It is not less expensive enough or more portable enough, compared to the current iPad, to justify its existence. The Touch makes sense because it is substantially more portable. The various memory capacity options make sense because not everyone has the same memory needs. And making network connectivity optional also makes sense because many of us can do just fine via wi-fi. But asking consumers to settle for a much poorer overall experience for less than $100 in price savings and for insignificant portability advantages is a poor trade-off.
My point is that it's not even a trade-off that many consumers would fully grasp. It's easy to figure out what sort of trade-offs you're making if you buy a basic Macbook Air instead of a Pro Retina model. The price difference is dramatic and expectations would be tempered accordingly. If you're paying $100 less (or whatever) to buy the 7-inch iPad vs. the 10-inch model, wouldn't it be human nature to think that in terms of the user experience it should be such a small difference that you shouldn't hardly notice? That would lead to disappointment and a user experience that would tend to make owning an iPad a less satisfying experience. That opens the door to other manufacturers being able to at least match the Apple experience. You have to raise the bar, not lower it, if you want to distance yourself from the competition. Coming out with a smaller iPad would most definitely amount to lowering the bar, giving competitors a chance to catch up. Instead, Apple upped the ante by making the iPad 2 a less expensive option and bringing out a Retina iPad that other manufacturers just can't touch right now. In January, the next iteration of the iPad will arrive and I'm betting it's a lighter device that runs cooler than the current iPad. Since competitors have failed to catch up yet to the iPad 2, Apple can continue to sell that perfectly capable model and drop the price even further. If you can offer a $349 iPad 2, a class-leading iPad starting at $499 and a new range of Touch models with a somewhat larger screen, it begs the question, what for the 7-inch iPad? It would not have the portability of the Touch and would be all of $50 cheaper than the starter model in the 10-inch range of tablets. People would buy it and find themselves liking it a lot less than the 10-inch iPad and that would only play into the hands of competing tablet makers. I say this because let's face it, you don't need to be a rocket scientist or do much testing to figure out that watching a movie, to give just one example, would be far less enjoyable on a 7-inch device vs. the 10-inch model. It feels jut right to be watching a film on the 10-inch version and as such it is bound to seem off, in some fashion, to be watching one on a much smaller screen. Watch it on the current device and you come away pleased with the experience. Do it on a 7-inch screen and the feeling would be that there was something missing. Multiply that by pretty much every activity the iPad is designed for. Such a downgrade to save roughly $50, seriously, very unApplelike. Jobs would never stand for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Oh, get off it.
What? The store won't have samples of both. Why would people be smart enough to know that a Corolla aint a Lexus but yet too dumb to realize that 7" isn't 10". This is the smartphone generation after all.
Besides, if people are buying for price then they'll most likely buy the Nexus (their mistake), but those people that choose iOS will be buying based on total experience (ie. ecosystem) or satisfaction with previous Apple products.
Remembering, of course, that you can look at this 2 ways. A lot of these people, if not most, will be moving up from a 4" screen smartphone to a 7" screen tablet. The change in screen size will be phenomenal. No disappointment whatsoever. You said so yourself.
[ Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device. - jragosta ]
Exactly.
Wrong. I would be confident that if a customer went to an Apple Store to buy their iPad, they would have a good shot at knowing what they were in for but iPads are sold all over the place, including the aforementioned Walmart. At our nearby Walmart the iPad on display is behind a glass case and not accessible to be tried out. Even if samples are available to be tested out, not everybody bothers to avail themselves of that opportunity. And they are not always purchased by the person who will use it. If purchased as a gift, for example, it would be rather easy for the purchaser to go with a $299 iPad 7-incher vs. a $399 10-inch model because budget considerations would make the cheaper model seem like the better option.
And what applications benefit from running on a smaller tablet? More real estate hurts no application that I can think of.
Some would like a lighter tablet for prolonged use and others to fit into purses and the like that the 10-inch model doesn't. I believe lighter is a good thing for a handheld device and that is something that Apple needs to put effort into. It's disappointing that the newest iPad is heavier than the iPad 2. It has to trend the other way. Yet the solution isn't to make the screen smaller, hence diminishing the user experience, but rather making the iPad lighter. Technology allowing for that is on the way. It always is. As for making a tablet that some people can squeeze into smaller spaces, I suspect the number of people for which this matters is so small that it's just not worth bothering over. I have an iPad and consider it to be a reasonably portable device. For true portability I turn to my Touch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
If you're paying $100 less (or whatever) to buy the 7-inch iPad vs. the 10-inch model, wouldn't it be human nature to think that in terms of the user experience it should be such a small difference that you shouldn't hardly notice? That would lead to disappointment and a user experience that would tend to make owning an iPad a less satisfying experience.
You keep saying this as if you are sure these buyers are going to be disappointed. If they are first time iPad buyers they have nothing to compare their experience with and if they are experienced iPad buyers they know full well what they are buying. In the event there is an iPad mini released there will be so much press out there that it would be almost impossible for an iPad purchase to be uninformed. They will buy it on recommendation or research but not by accident. Even if it is an impulse buy the mere fact that it has an Apple logo on the back makes you an instant celebrity. You are worrying about something that will never become an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
I have an iPad and consider it to be a reasonably portable device. For true portability I turn to my Touch.
The Touch offers no cellular plan so the mobile functionality is quite inferior to a device which has one.
You wasted a lot of time to keep restating the same unfounded opinion. There is no rational reason why it's OK to have 2 sizes of laptops but not 2 sizes of iPad. It just doesn't make sense.
When the iPad was first announced people speculated that business suits would quickly be available with inside pockets large enough to accommodate them. That never happened because the iPad is just way too big to fit in any inside suit pocket. A 7-ish device just might make the prediction come true because it is almost pocket-able as is. Men are carrying satchels of various sorts nowadays but still few carry around an iPad because they are way too large and a little heavy to lug around all day. The 7-ish size again is the perfect size for a mobile tablet IMO and you know if Apple makes one the user experience will be top notch.
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Originally Posted by jragosta
You wasted a lot of time to keep restating the same unfounded opinion. There is no rational reason why it's OK to have 2 sizes of laptops but not 2 sizes of iPad. It just doesn't make sense.
Yeah I don't understand why he is pushing the Touch as the only suitable mobile device. I can't imagine a 7" device not being much more comfortable reading a book while commuting, typing emails or even surfing the web than a 3.5" device. I don't think the 7" will be ideal for office productivity apps but I don't even like trying to do that sort of work on a full size iPad. For that I prefer at least 15" MBP. I am definitely a buyer of a mini iPad not ever having seen one.
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Originally Posted by mstone
When the iPad was first announced people speculated that business suits would quickly be available with inside pockets large enough to accommodate them. That never happened because the iPad is just way too big to fit in any inside suit pocket. A 7-ish device just might make the prediction come true because it is almost pocket-able as is. Men are carrying satchels of various sorts nowadays but still few carry around an iPad because they are way too large and a little heavy to lug around all day. The 7-ish size again is the perfect size for a mobile tablet IMO and you know if Apple makes one the user experience will be top notch.
A business suit pocket for a 7" tablet? Are you kidding? As far as "men carrying satchels", the majority of men I see wearing suits on the train in the morning (including me) also carry briefcases or bags of some kind. Most, if not all of those bags contain a notebook computer, ereader or tablet (or sometimes more than one of the above). If I polled the suit-wearers I would bet that 90% would laugh at the suggestion of an "iPad pocket" of any size in their suits. I don't even like putting my phone in my suit pocket. You're pitching this to the wrong market.
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Originally Posted by Venerable
A business suit pocket for a 7" tablet? Are you kidding? As far as "men carrying satchels", the majority of men I see wearing suits on the train in the morning (including me) also carry briefcases or bags of some kind. Most, if not all of those bags contain a notebook computer, ereader or tablet (or sometimes more than one of the above). If I polled the suit-wearers I would bet that 90% would laugh at the suggestion of an "iPad pocket" of any size in their suits. I don't even like putting my phone in my suit pocket. You're pitching this to the wrong market.
I am not pitching it but if the inside pocket was just a half of an inch or so wider it would just work and you still would not have to use it for a tablet if you didn't want to. I was simply comparing it to a kangaroo sized pouch needed to carry an regular iPad, which is why they don't make them. I wish the pockets were a bit bigger anyway for international travel so my passport wallet would fit more easily. International travel is the only time I wear a suit but I still think if the pocket was there guys would use it. You know when you go out for lunch or to a meeting, when you wouldn't mind having your iPad mini with you but don't want to carry a briefcase. It is not like it would cost any more than the same suit without a larger pocket and it certainly wouldn't be in their advertising but what's the harm?
A 7" tablet weighs something close to 12 ounces. There's no way I'd put a 3/4lb device in an inside suit pocket. They're business suits, not overalls.
I have one pair of jeans where both front pockets are screwed, and as a result I sometimes put my iPhone in my back pocket (ass pocket? What do Americans call it?) but am always scared to forget when going to sit down. So I take it out of my back pocket again - quickly. You don't have that 'fear' with an iPad Mini?
Edit: just saw your 'back pocket' but too lazy to edit my post
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Originally Posted by Venerable
A 7" tablet weighs something close to 12 ounces. There's no way I'd put a 3/4lb device in an inside suit pocket. They're business suits, not overalls.
Point taken. I still would buy the iPad mini and I also wish the pockets were slightly larger, but jackets are getting shorter and narrower lately so probably not.
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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
I have one pair of jeans where both front pockets are screwed, and as a result I sometimes put my iPhone in my back pocket (ass pocket? What do Americans call it?) but am always scared to forget when going to sit down. So I take it out of my back pocket again - quickly. You don't have that 'fear' with an iPad Mini?
Edit: just saw your 'back pocket' but too lazy to edit my post
Yea I see a lot of younger girls with the phone in the back pocket and a lot of them are using phones with cracked screens. I can sort of put two and two together. I think I would only put a iPad mini in the back pocket temporarily but since it would be kind of a tight fit and a bit large I would hope that I wouldn't accidentally forget and sit on it.
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Originally Posted by mstone
The Touch offers no cellular plan so the mobile functionality is quite inferior to a device which has one.
My iPad doesn't have a cellular plan either.
My grand kids (7 to 12 years old) love their mom's iPad. It is a little big for them and it gets dropped quite often. Still un-broken to my constant amazement. I would buy three smaller iPads for them to use and they could leave mom's alone. Plus, that would end the bickering of who's turn it is to use the iPad. They travel more then most and get school updates via email. I think this would be a great item for small hands yet large enough to do homework. The iPod touch wasn't a big hit with them but they used it until they lost it.