San Francisco to cease Mac purchases without EPEAT certification

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Time Cook didn't design the MacBook Air nor was he in charge of Apple when it was created. On top of that, Cook wasn't even in charge with the RMBP project was started.

    PS: You forgot to add "Steve would never have let this happen!"


    Macbook Air's design was not the same as the new MBP retina display. It used glass and a different glue.

  • Reply 102 of 195
    robin hoodrobin hood Posts: 513member


    The new MacBook Pro is just as recyclable. It is not magically now non-recyclable simply because a few components are glued together. However, it does not fit the arbitrary definitions specified by EPEAT. That's at issue here.


     


    Hang in there for EPEAT 2.0.

  • Reply 103 of 195
    hexorhexor Posts: 57member


    So in other words they are going to continue to buy PC products made of toxic materials.

  • Reply 104 of 195


    "Time Cook didn't design the MacBook Air nor was he in charge of Apple when it was created. On top of that, Cook wasn't even in charge with the RMBP project was started."


     


     


     


    Macbook Pro != Macbook Air


     


    And I suspect Tim Cook had de-facto control for a while when Jobs was ill.  Also, though he might not have been in charge in the beginning of the RMBP development, he was certainly in charge towards the end.  Obviously he didn't design the machine, but he was would have been responsible for creating an environment where manufacturing cost played a larger role than it otherwise might have. Also it is typical of the MBA way of thinking to try to squeeze every last bit of revenue out of a product, say by forcing users to buy all the SSD storage they need at the store rather than upgrading later.  I have personally upgraded my hard drive three times on my 2007 MBP.  It is an old machine but it serves my needs.  I paid a premium for this machine, but I expect to get something for the price I paid.  

  • Reply 105 of 195
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post





    Are you a recycling specialist? Apparently no, because glue does make recycling much more difficult.


    You've been here since 08- shouldn't you know by now that Jragosta is a specialist in every subject?  You don't have to take my word for it- he'll gladly let you know.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    So unfortunately for you, I'll be around for quite a while



    Lucky us....

  • Reply 106 of 195
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by danv2 View Post


    I work for the Federal Government, and as a rule the organization I work for (which will remain anonymous) can only buy 5% of its purchases as non-EPEAT compliant. Therefore, Apple has painted themselves into corner on government sales at the US Federal level. If either EPEAT or Apple cannot budge you will see a large backlash of data on this issue. I'm not saying either should change, but the plain fact is that Macs and other Apple mobile devices won't be looked to as a purchasable item for government and educational use.


     


    This is perhaps the largest mistake Apple could have made, politically speaking, with regards to government and education.



    The trend in business with respect to Macs and iPhones is BYOD. Still most computers in business are Windows so Apple is not really affected by the EPEAT restriction to any great degree. I am not sure if BYOD is commonplace in Government or not but it may become more prevalent in that environment as well. I think we will see the education / iPad situation follow a similar BYOD track as the students might soon need to take the iPad home each day so the parents will end up being the actual purchaser (at a discount) and the school districts will be off the hook with regard to the EPEAT restrictions. 

  • Reply 107 of 195
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,372member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    Jeepers dude, please die soon.  
    Your old-age rants about "kids today" (or whatever is on your mind), are really getting crazier and crazier.  

    The other day it was "all Koreans" now it's "all San Franciscans"??? WTF?  

    Can't you exist without making broad, offensive generalisations about every group of folks that isn't old, white, and conservative?  

    To use a metaphor from what I assume is your generation ... lately you come across like Mr. Wilson from "Denis the Menace," (North American version not UK).  

    Earlier he mentioned 'going to work' I really thought he was about 15 living with parents by the immaturity level of his ramblings! Now I assume they are just done to attract attention so ignore list is the best solution. If only it also blocked replies with the utter nonsense in too! /sigh
  • Reply 108 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


     I think we will see the education / iPad situation follow a similar BYOD track as the students might soon need to take the iPad home each day so the parents will end up being the actual purchaser (at a discount) and the school districts will be off the hook with regard to the EPEAT restrictions. 



     


    Considering things like school lunch assistance is at an all time high nationwide, it will be a long time coming before parents are required to buy iPads for kids. 

  • Reply 109 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    Earlier he mentioned 'going to work' I really thought he was about 15 living with parents by the immaturity level of his ramblings! Now I assume they are just done to attract attention so ignore list is the best solution. If only it also blocked replies with the utter nonsense in too! /sigh


     


    I just assumed that was his fake way of looking older.

  • Reply 110 of 195
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Macbook Air's design was not the same as the new MBP retina display. It used glass and a different glue.

    So your problem is that you aren't aware the MBA contains glass (as if glass is now a bad thing) and that it uses a different glue. Explain to me the differences in the glue that you are so against?

    Macbook Pro != Macbook Air

    And I suspect Tim Cook had de-facto control for a while when Jobs was ill.  Also, though he might not have been in charge in the beginning of the RMBP development, he was certainly in charge towards the end.  Obviously he didn't design the machine, but he was would have been responsible for creating an environment where manufacturing cost played a larger role than it otherwise might have. Also it is typical of the MBA way of thinking to try to squeeze every last bit of revenue out of a product, say by forcing users to buy all the SSD storage they need at the store rather than upgrading later.  I have personally upgraded my hard drive three times on my 2007 MBP.  It is an old machine but it serves my needs.  I paid a premium for this machine, but I expect to get something for the price I paid.  

    So your against the new MBPs, which are still being sold next to updated MBPs of the older design, because Tim Cook has a Master of Business Administration degree? Seriously?!

    PS: Before you grab your pitchforks and torches try to understand that this SF ruling is because Apple had their products removed from EPEAT, not because their products have miraculously stopped passing the EPEAT rating system. That 2007 MBP still has the same EPEAT rating it had before even though it's no longer listed.
  • Reply 111 of 195
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Right?! So nothing has changed with Apple's products and yet now it' a big deal. To me that proves just how pointless EPEAT is when people blindly follow something without understanding it.

    Good point. So if you're interested in the environment, why were those older laptops OK last week, but not OK now that Apple has decided to stop paying the fee?
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Apple made the decision themselves to remove their own products from the approved list. They weren't thrown off. I'm very certain you don't think Apple management are the "idiots (who) make decisions for us".

    Yet if your interest is in the environment, why were those laptops OK last week but they're suddenly anathema?

    dasanman69 wrote: »
    The glue isn't the problem, it's the battery. Not being able to easily remove it is a cause for concern for recycling purposes.

    I wish you folks would make up your mind. Is the problem the glue or the 5 lobed screws or the battery? And why is the battery any less recyclable than any other battery?
    kellya74u wrote: »
    What if the glue was water soluble…spill a drink on your laptop & the battery falls out!

    If you get enough water into your laptop to dissolve the glue, you have bigger problems than a loose battery.
  • Reply 112 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.


     


    The really sad thing here is that this EPEAT agency is running the show. They are giving the "green initiative" a bad name by slowing down the process and forcing manufacturing based on an arbitrary standard of "recyclable." The "glue construction" process does make upgrades harder -- but a quick bath in a solution should allow everything to be extracted and that's quicker than a hundred screws isn't it?


     


    I've read a lot of comments about "those damn environmentalists" as if there were one monolithic hippy controlling things -- the environment is EVERYONE's concern -- we don't want mercury poisoning our food supply or mutated children or poisoned air do we?


     


    It isn't an either/or position -- something will need to be resolved so that Apple isn't "automatically" kicked out of the process because they don't fit the mold.

  • Reply 113 of 195
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    The USA only attacked Canada once (we were the very first attack by the very first US Armed forces), but they lost.  Quite badly too.   


     


    If Canada wasn't so damn polite and gave all the territory they won off the USA back, everything North of the Mississippi would be Canada right now.  



    Here is an interesting read. 



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Montgomery_(Lake_Champlain)


     


    and


     


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Plattsburgh

  • Reply 114 of 195
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    ...a quick bath in a solution should allow...

    That's the problem. Hippies hate baths. ????
  • Reply 115 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    So your against the new MBPs, which are still being sold next to updated MBPs of the older design, because Tim Cook has a Master of Business Administration degree? Seriously?!

    PS: Before you grab your pitchforks and torches try to understand that this SF ruling is because Apple had their products removed from EPEAT, not because their products have miraculously stopped passing the EPEAT rating system. That 2007 MBP still has the same EPEAT rating it had before even though it's no longer listed.


     


    Whoa, logically challenged much?  Let me restate my argument.  I have problems with the RMBP because its design moves in a direction that I don't like.  Its design philosophy shows symptoms artificial limitation of capabilities, especially in regards to updatability of the SSD and replacement of expired batteries.  I don't care if Apple deigns to provide a battery replacement service for a fee; if they are the only practical alternative for battery replacement, that means they can cease this service at their whim.  Apple currently does not sell battery replacements for my 2007 MBP, but I was able to use another supplier recently.  I don't want Apple to be able to place artificial limitations on the lifetime of my premium professional laptop that I paid a premium price for.  Such behavior is typical of the MBA management style, something that usually causes us consumers to pay more for less. Oh, and the leader of Apple happens to be an MBA.

  • Reply 116 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    In other news, Apple to move all business to Indiana


    Or to China

  • Reply 117 of 195
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    boeyc15 wrote: »
    Didnt those tear down sites(ifixit etc) try that?
    Im sure its possible to tear down these macs, but these EPEAT rules are written for the average dumpster diver/charity org etc and not for the more sophisticated disassembler.

    If they did, I haven't noticed it. This is my point of reference: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Display-Mid-2012-Teardown/9462/3

    Covered in step 21, near the bottom. I didn't see any mention of heat. Maybe they mentioned it in some other story, but I didn't notice it. Ironically, the only mention of a heat gun I saw in that set of instructions is the listing of a heat gun in the popular products list.

    Maybe it's not something I would ask a Goodwill employee to do, but I really don't think it's that difficult.

    You cant just heat up the glue to unstick it since there is  now a battery in the way.

    You're right, that's dangerous, but I don't think you saw my comment. I think you could heat from behind the metal, not the battery side of the bond.
  • Reply 118 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





     Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.


     


     


    If they were to look at in an up/down yes/no black/white manner, then they might come to your conclusion.


     


    But likely, they pay attention to how quickly/easily/economically it can be recycled.


     


    Kind of like redeveloping land - toxic waste dumps can most certainly be reused and redeveloped, but compared to clean sites, it is not quite the same. 

  • Reply 119 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


     


    As for San Fran banning Macs from being bought by city agencies, who cares? As the article said, Macs only make up a percent or two of their complete usage, so let 'em ban what they want. Apple doesn't need San Fran, and neither do I.



     


     


    My guess is that gluing the batteries will make more profits for Apple then selling to San Francisco.  The stockholders will do well, so I don't blame Apple one bit.


     


    And as for San francisco, the entire bay area is all the same.  Let 'em ban Apple all over the bay area!


     


    /s

  • Reply 120 of 195

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NormM View Post


     


     but manufacturing has evolved since then and the criterion of easy disassembly by end users no longer makes sense. 


     



    \


     


    Why does that criteria no longer make sense?

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