Where did any market analysis in the past couple of years claim Samsung sold more smartphones in the US than Apple has? Yes, you'd think people would learn. . .
This isn't about US sales numbers, but it illustrates what I've been saying about the uselessness of the guessing going around with Samsung's numbers. You'll notice that Samsung said that numbers were DOWN 10% on all their phones, and that smartphone shipments followed that trend. Yet, the guesses had the smartphone numbers from them going up!
Absolutely agree for the most part (not sure about statistically unsound as I don't see a detailed explanation how the calculations were derived).
Those China/Europe/Worldwide numbers are based on snippets of market data combined with various methods of extrapolating and using additional indicators. Perhaps some educated guesses in there too. So there's a lot of assumptions probably being made, making these simply estimates. They're not "real" results, anymore than sales figures for a few specific US model smartphones are representative of the worldwide market which is what some posters are trying to prove based on those sales charts.
Be a bit more thuthful please. These weren't a "few" models, they were most of Samsung's models, and they likely accounted for a good 75% of what they sold here, including the Win Phone models.
Just an aspect that I've not seen in this thread.
Given the contempt with which Samsung has been shown to treat the US court system and the antics they have already be caught at. What are the chances that the sales numbers they are releasing to the US courts are artificially low? I'm sure there are all kinds of ways Samsung could lose some significant fraction of their sales. After all, their internally calculated numbers have to be based on communication back from the actual sales channel and Samsung have already shown they play fast a loose with electronic communications. Also, there's little to no chance the entire sales channel will be subpoenaed so Apple can do their own calculation.
Perhaps Samsung see the writing on the wall and want to limit their US exposure to a damage award, as well as the "thumb a nose at the foreigners" attitude that appears to be a cultural game played across the east-west divide.
I would love to catch the analysts at some "pick numbers out of the wrong hat" game but this is a huge discrepancy that serves Samsung quite well right now (at least for damages calculations).
Do the numbers foot with Samsung's US tax returns?
What a grand turn of events. Must order in some more popcorn.
I've seen that argument from posters on the financial forums. But they are obviously fanboys from the language they use, and the insistance that Samsung's numbers can't possibly be that bad.
A company takes real risks if they submit documents are are false. It's highly doubtful that this is the case here. We can be pretty sure that Apple has their own ways of having some idea as to the actual shipments and sales of Samsung. If they think the numbers are wrong, we can be sure they will say so.
I also feel numbers are cooked to reduce damage claims. Who is to check the authenticity of these?
How can Apple claim even 2 billion dollar of damages if average selling price is so less? What is profit per handset Samsung is earning ?
At 15% margin it is at 1.2 billion dollar.
Now compare .67 billion revenue in quarter 2 2012 with around 20 billion dollar revenue Samsung mobile division earned during the same period
Even if half of the revenue is from Smartphones , rest of the world sales is 15 times.
Those China/Europe/Worldwide numbers are based on snippets of market data combined with various methods of extrapolating and using additional indicators. Perhaps some educated guesses in there too. So there's a lot of assumptions probably being made, making these simply estimates. They're not "real" results, anymore than sales figures for a few specific US model smartphones are representative of the worldwide market which is what some posters are trying to prove based on those sales charts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Be a bit more thuthful please. These weren't a "few" models, they were most of Samsung's models, and they likely accounted for a good 75% of what they sold here, including the Win Phone models.
Of course they were only a few models Mel since they only listed US ones, and even then not all that were available for US sale. Are you another who feels they can extrapolate the worldwide results from US numbers alone? I would think you're sharper than that. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you misunderstood what I wrote in the first place.
Of course they were only a few models Mel since they only listed US ones, and even then not all that were available for US sale. Are you another who feels they can extrapolate the worldwide results from US numbers alone? I would think you're sharper than that. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you misunderstood what I wrote in the first place.
They were most all of the models they sell here. Most of the rest of the models sold elsewhere are the same models with differing names.
let's just cut to the chase: all these reports from IDC and the rest - including global stats - are just plain old BS guesswork dishonestly presented as facts.
at best.
at worst, they are taking bribes ... er, consulting fees, to skew them for some big client. does anyone seriously think Windows Phone 8 will have a bigger market share than iPhone by 2016? well, IDC does.
the judge has ordered Samsung and Apple to disclose who they are paying in the blogsphere for whatever. i'm not sure how broad the disclosure has to be, but it should make great reading in a few weeks when it comes out. arrogant Apple ain't paying anyone (except ads of course). but Samsung? ah ...
the judge has ordered Samsung and Apple to disclose who they are paying in the blogsphere for whatever. i'm not sure how broad the disclosure has to be, but it should make great reading in a few weeks when it comes out. arrogant Apple ain't paying anyone (except ads of course). but Samsung? ah ...
That was Judge Alsup, and it's in the nearly complete IP case between Google and Oracle. Nothing to do with Samsung and Apple.
BTW those reports of paid bloggers and journalists (!) are due next Friday.
if the phone is infringing, it doesn't matter where it's sold, but enforcing bans elsewhere would be (legally, right?) impossible…
Not true. If it's found to be infringing US patents, it matters that it's sold IN THE US.
The very same phone could be found to not infringe German/Korean/Russian/Martian patents, and hence keep being sold there.
Anyway, what's I'm really interested in is "did Samsung really copy the iPhone with the goal of having people buy it thinking it is some kind of iPhone", as it has been claimed. As I've written elsewhere here, I'm absolutely against the Apple claims of "infringement" on software, not really convinced about the claims of infrigement on design (for obvious comparisons with what's done in cars or plane businesses... or I'd like to see Boeing banned from making several of the planes it makes to compete against Airbus ), but I do definitely think that if Samsung did try to swindle the general public by selling "iPhones that are not iPhones", then they should be punished.
Of course, I have absolutely no idea if this is even remotely true.... I guess I don't understand anything to/in/of Marketing
It's notas hard as you think. If app,e really though that the figures were false, the court could appoint a forensic team to investigate them. There's no way a company could rework all of their numbers from suppliers, distributers, retailers, etc. it's far too much.
Comments
This isn't about US sales numbers, but it illustrates what I've been saying about the uselessness of the guessing going around with Samsung's numbers. You'll notice that Samsung said that numbers were DOWN 10% on all their phones, and that smartphone shipments followed that trend. Yet, the guesses had the smartphone numbers from them going up!
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-04-27/samsung-apple-smartphone-sales/54584550/1
Be a bit more thuthful please. These weren't a "few" models, they were most of Samsung's models, and they likely accounted for a good 75% of what they sold here, including the Win Phone models.
I've seen that argument from posters on the financial forums. But they are obviously fanboys from the language they use, and the insistance that Samsung's numbers can't possibly be that bad.
A company takes real risks if they submit documents are are false. It's highly doubtful that this is the case here. We can be pretty sure that Apple has their own ways of having some idea as to the actual shipments and sales of Samsung. If they think the numbers are wrong, we can be sure they will say so.
Thats simply not going to happen.
Originally Posted by melgross
A company takes real risks if they submit documents are are false. It's highly doubtful that this is the case here.
Well, they DID lie about their numbers a few years ago. Since nothing has improved, why wouldn't they keep lying?
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Those China/Europe/Worldwide numbers are based on snippets of market data combined with various methods of extrapolating and using additional indicators. Perhaps some educated guesses in there too. So there's a lot of assumptions probably being made, making these simply estimates. They're not "real" results, anymore than sales figures for a few specific US model smartphones are representative of the worldwide market which is what some posters are trying to prove based on those sales charts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Be a bit more thuthful please. These weren't a "few" models, they were most of Samsung's models, and they likely accounted for a good 75% of what they sold here, including the Win Phone models.
Of course they were only a few models Mel since they only listed US ones, and even then not all that were available for US sale. Are you another who feels they can extrapolate the worldwide results from US numbers alone? I would think you're sharper than that. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you misunderstood what I wrote in the first place.
Not in court. Not here. That's a very dangerous game.
They were most all of the models they sell here. Most of the rest of the models sold elsewhere are the same models with differing names.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
They were most all of the models they sell here. Most of the rest of the models sold elsewhere are the same models with differing names.
... and?
let's just cut to the chase: all these reports from IDC and the rest - including global stats - are just plain old BS guesswork dishonestly presented as facts.
at best.
at worst, they are taking bribes ... er, consulting fees, to skew them for some big client. does anyone seriously think Windows Phone 8 will have a bigger market share than iPhone by 2016? well, IDC does.
http://www.geekwire.com/2012/idc-trims-windows-phone-projections-sees-microsoft-2-2016/
the judge has ordered Samsung and Apple to disclose who they are paying in the blogsphere for whatever. i'm not sure how broad the disclosure has to be, but it should make great reading in a few weeks when it comes out. arrogant Apple ain't paying anyone (except ads of course). but Samsung? ah ...
Originally Posted by melgross
Not in court. Not here. That's a very dangerous game.
*shrug* How would they ever be caught?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
the judge has ordered Samsung and Apple to disclose who they are paying in the blogsphere for whatever. i'm not sure how broad the disclosure has to be, but it should make great reading in a few weeks when it comes out. arrogant Apple ain't paying anyone (except ads of course). but Samsung? ah ...
That was Judge Alsup, and it's in the nearly complete IP case between Google and Oracle. Nothing to do with Samsung and Apple.
BTW those reports of paid bloggers and journalists (!) are due next Friday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uguysrnuts
Touchwiz? Is this a slang similar to lacrosse in Canada?
Touchwiz is samsungs own UI for android on there phones.
if the phone is infringing, it doesn't matter where it's sold, but enforcing bans elsewhere would be (legally, right?) impossible…
Not true. If it's found to be infringing US patents, it matters that it's sold IN THE US.
The very same phone could be found to not infringe German/Korean/Russian/Martian patents, and hence keep being sold there.
Anyway, what's I'm really interested in is "did Samsung really copy the iPhone with the goal of having people buy it thinking it is some kind of iPhone", as it has been claimed. As I've written elsewhere here, I'm absolutely against the Apple claims of "infringement" on software, not really convinced about the claims of infrigement on design (for obvious comparisons with what's done in cars or plane businesses... or I'd like to see Boeing banned from making several of the planes it makes to compete against Airbus
Of course, I have absolutely no idea if this is even remotely true.... I guess I don't understand anything to/in/of Marketing
Think. This is a US trial, not one for overseas models.
It's notas hard as you think. If app,e really though that the figures were false, the court could appoint a forensic team to investigate them. There's no way a company could rework all of their numbers from suppliers, distributers, retailers, etc. it's far too much.