This was a REALLY BOLD and COMPETITIVE move for Nokia a week before the announcement of the iPhone 5.
Because when people rethink their contracts, they'll have these features to mull over...
1. 8-megapixel camera that can shoot 1080p high-definition video - WITH IMAGE STABILIZATION
2. "PureView" technology allows shooting imagery without using flash.
3. "Super Sensitive Touch." - allow use of the device while wearing gloves.
4. Inductive charging
5. Mapping with Augmented reality - point the phone down a street and it SHOWS YOU the names of places, shops, bus stops, etc.
6. Even LOW-end phones get exchangeable shells that allow users to change colors or add wireless charging, and also allows users to input microSD cards.
If iPhone didn't exist, I would most likely buy Nokia Lumia phones. That said, these new phones are pretty disappointing. And Wall Street agrees, with Nokia stock down about 15% following the announcement.
1. iPhone 4S can also shoot 1080p video, with image stabilization.
2. PureView on Lumia 920 is a regression from Lumia 808's PureView, using much more limited image sensor (down from 41-megapixels to 8-megapixels). In fact, it really isn't much different from image sensor used on iPhone 4S.
If iPhone didn't exist, I would most likely buy Nokia Lumia phones. That said, these new phones are pretty disappointing. And Wall Street agrees, with Nokia stock down about 15% following the announcement.
1. iPhone 4S can also shoot 1080p video, with image stabilization.
Digital image stabilization. There's a big difference between digital (iPhone) and optical (Lumia) image stabilization.
as an appleinsider global moderator, is that your official position?
if you (pooch) have not noticed yet there are three (at least i assume) .... tallest skil, melgross, melvin.
and "as an appleinsider global moderator, is that your official position?" it is his "globol moderator" position... he typed it did he not ?...
if you want you know if it is appleinsiders... ask him that...( but he already answered that question... )
As far as my point being off topic, you are the one that told everyone you don't own or use an iPhone. You obviously thought it was relevant or I wouldn't have even known. Exactly what are you waiting on? What iPhone could Apple possibly make to meet your incredibly high standards?
No I think he said he had an original iPhone. Whether or not it is connected to a carrier I wouldn't speculate but I believed that cost of ownership was his problem. But to your point, his knowledge of the functions and features of the iPhone appears to be quite extensive. More than mine and I have owned every iPhone since day one. It is not his lack of knowledge that is bothersome so much as he is in your face 24/7 proving how smart he is and stupid you are.
Why is every Apple website reporting on this thing? Why do we care?
Because most of us don't want to live in a bubble....???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope
Bold move indeed. But Is this also a do-or-die release for Nokia?
If this is a the swansong, it is a beautiful swansong.
A little thick-ish looking (I don't know if that's illusion or fact) - but, based on lots of nice features, and to resurrect a 1964 political slogan, truly "A choice, not an echo."
(which I hate to tell Nokia, was Goldwater's swan song).
The financial markets are still reacting badly to today's event.
It dropped about the time the event began, down to about -14.5%. Then it inched its way back to -9.2%. But now, it's down to -14.3% again.
What I think is important here is that no Win Phone has captured the imagination of the consumer. I believe that it's caused by a major miscommunication between Microsoft and consumers. They've often been accused of not understanding consumers, and I think that's correct.
When Win Phone first came out, and Microsoft had theater $500 million advertising blitz, the point they were making, which was roundly criticized, was that with other phones, people spent too much time using them, and with wp, you could get on the phone, do your thing quickly, and get off again.
But people like their smartphones. They really like their smartphones. They don't want to get on and off quickly. That's a fundamental disagreement with what people want in their phones. And indeed, it's actually hard to use more than a few apps with Win Phone.
Another problem is the very concept of connective ness with Win Phone. Not everyone wants the first thing they see to be Facebook, or Twitter, or whatever. And the integration, while there, has been critiqued as being very basic—done much better with apps on other platforms. Maybe it's better with wp8.
It's possible that the entire concept of wp is wrong for most people. If that's the case, then they, and their ODM's are in a lot of trouble.
The market reaction today is that there's nothing in wp8, or Nokia's new phones, that consumers are going to drool over, and therefor, leave Android or iOS over. I would imagine that most consumers aren't even going to understand the major difference wp8 is from wp7. They look the same, and that's all the take will be.
And Nokia may not have that much time left. Their debt load is larger than their cash, marketable securities and investments. Major debt becomes due in early 2013, which really isn't that far away. The debt is rated at junk status. And has been degraded even from that. If they use some cash for expenditures, and tap into the two credit lines they still have, their position could be precarious early next year when that large debt becomes due, with another in 2016.
It's felt that they may not make it. If Symbian sales continue to fall faster than Win Phone sales increase, their situation will continue to deteriorate. And they are being hammered on the low end by ZTE and others. Additionally, thei networking division is also in bad shape, and they can't sell it, though they've tried.
So it can be seen why the stock is down so much today. And that won't help matters.
Meanwhile, I have doubts that the 4 million Win Phones they supposedly sold last quarter were sell through to consumers, rather than sales to the channel. I live in NYC, and I'm on the street and in the subways a fair amount of time. I've yet to see Win Phone anywhere. Mostly iPhones, Android phones and featurephones.
If the holiday quarter isn't good for them, it could be the beginning of the end.
which is actually a WIRED brick that has to have physical contact with the phone without any traditional plug between the two that makes it less reliable and less power-efficient.
So you have to pick up the brick and the phone together, carefully, to answer a call or doing anything on the device.
Compared to the traditional charger where you just pick up the phone with the plugged cable.
This wasn't even a product release. It was an announcement of something they're working on, hopefully to be released in the future at an unspecified date for an unannounced price.
If iPhone didn't exist, I would most likely buy Nokia Lumia phones. That said, these new phones are pretty disappointing. And Wall Street agrees, with Nokia stock down about 15% following the announcement.
1. iPhone 4S can also shoot 1080p video, with image stabilization.
2. PureView on Lumia 920 is a regression from Lumia 808's PureView, using much more limited image sensor (down from 41-megapixels to 8-megapixels). In fact, it really isn't much different from image sensor used on iPhone 4S.
6. But Lumia 920 doesn't have microSD slot.
Ah, if the iPhone didn't exist, there wouldn't BE Lumia phones. The status quo would be the same as it was before 2007, except that there would be a clone of the Blackberry phone in Android, but without BES server.
It currently seems like the most compelling non-iPhone option (read: threat). Other than the GSIII, that is.
Agreed.. although I think the GS3 seems like a nicer phone. I have a friend that traded in his 4S for the GS3 (why I still don't know) - but he loves it. I've played around with it a bit, and it's pretty cool. Although I don't plan to leave the iphone.
How many other companies are even making a windows phone besides Nokia? I am sure a few are, but they certainly aren't pushing or advertising them heavily. If Nokia fails (which is likely) will that be the end of Windows as a phone option?
Ah, if the iPhone didn't exist, there wouldn't BE Lumia phones. The status quo would be the same as it was before 2007, except that there would be a clone of the Blackberry phone in Android, but without BES server.
do you REALLLLY believe that?
That with capacitive touchscreens just becoming affordable enough for mobile and radios speeding up and processors becoming more efficient and powerful that the same ish would've been happening now as was then?
Really?
It'd be a different landscape, and for all you know a better one...
The only truth is there probably wouldn't be a Lumia...but there'd probably be phones LIKE the Lumia or better or completely different, etc.
The Tech to allow the iPhone hardly existed when the iPhone came out...at it's price point it couldn't even have existed in 2006.
Is the implication that you think this is better than Apple's offerings? Can you really say that until the 12th? Of course I look around at other things.
It's an Apple website. I just don't see much reason to report on the others unless there's some direct relation or comparison to Apple's offerings. And at the very least, it doesn't belong in the iPhone subforum, but many generic news postings in the phone industry wind up here, so that's just a difference of opinion.
Blah, blah, FUD, blah blah, gloom and doom… THIS is why I don't like seeing competitor crap here. Pulls the trolls even further out of the woodwork.
I agree with you Tall One. If the site would stick to Apple information more, maybe the discussions would not end up getting into a word match between the pro and con Apple fans. If I want to learn about Nokia and Win8, I will go to their site and likewise to learn Android go to the Android forums.
After learning about the different phones, go try out a few at the carriers sale office. My small carrier even lets you use a phone for a few days without buying it so you can decide if it is the right one for your personal preference.
Enough of the bickering and let's get more discussions on Apple products and less on the competitors offerings.
Ah, if the iPhone didn't exist, there wouldn't BE Lumia phones. The status quo would be the same as it was before 2007, except that there would be a clone of the Blackberry phone in Android, but without BES server.
Competition is good. It drives innovation from everyone.
My iPhone 4 is getting a couple of years old now... it was much better than my 3G before it, which was better than my BB before that. But to me, the question is will the 5 be a step forward with new features worthy of moving to, or will it be an incremental upgrade like the 4S?
From what I've seen, I don't see the revolution and that worries me. Friends will have phones more feature packed.
I hope I'm wrong and that Apple are leaping forward keeping ahead of phones like the Lumia.
Agreed.. although I think the GS3 seems like a nicer phone. I have a friend that traded in his 4S for the GS3 (why I still don't know) - but he loves it. I've played around with it a bit, and it's pretty cool. Although I don't plan to leave the iphone.
I hate the GS3
some cool features wrapped in a me too OS skin embodied in a zero effort design shell.
Did I hear him say, it's not really about the megapixels? Gasp....hasn't apple taken that stance and the competition shot it down as baloney?
Tsk tisk
I still remember when my photo teacher said phone camera's couldn't take good enough photo's to be used in our digital photo class...I wonder if they can use phones now.
just when I thought the Micorsoft UI could not get any fuglier, they went and proved me wrong. What a disaster! Windows Phone 7 was a total failure, and now the sequel, Windows Phone 8 will be another total failure. Wonder how much more shareholder money Microsoft is going to piss away on this failed platform?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3
This was a REALLY BOLD and COMPETITIVE move for Nokia a week before the announcement of the iPhone 5.
Because when people rethink their contracts, they'll have these features to mull over...
1. 8-megapixel camera that can shoot 1080p high-definition video - WITH IMAGE STABILIZATION
2. "PureView" technology allows shooting imagery without using flash.
3. "Super Sensitive Touch." - allow use of the device while wearing gloves.
4. Inductive charging
5. Mapping with Augmented reality - point the phone down a street and it SHOWS YOU the names of places, shops, bus stops, etc.
6. Even LOW-end phones get exchangeable shells that allow users to change colors or add wireless charging, and also allows users to input microSD cards.
If iPhone didn't exist, I would most likely buy Nokia Lumia phones. That said, these new phones are pretty disappointing. And Wall Street agrees, with Nokia stock down about 15% following the announcement.
1. iPhone 4S can also shoot 1080p video, with image stabilization.
2. PureView on Lumia 920 is a regression from Lumia 808's PureView, using much more limited image sensor (down from 41-megapixels to 8-megapixels). In fact, it really isn't much different from image sensor used on iPhone 4S.
6. But Lumia 920 doesn't have microSD slot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt
If iPhone didn't exist, I would most likely buy Nokia Lumia phones. That said, these new phones are pretty disappointing. And Wall Street agrees, with Nokia stock down about 15% following the announcement.
1. iPhone 4S can also shoot 1080p video, with image stabilization.
Digital image stabilization. There's a big difference between digital (iPhone) and optical (Lumia) image stabilization.
if you (pooch) have not noticed yet there are three (at least i assume) .... tallest skil, melgross, melvin.
and "as an appleinsider global moderator, is that your official position?" it is his "globol moderator" position... he typed it did he not ?...
if you want you know if it is appleinsiders... ask him that...( but he already answered that question... )
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
As far as my point being off topic, you are the one that told everyone you don't own or use an iPhone. You obviously thought it was relevant or I wouldn't have even known. Exactly what are you waiting on? What iPhone could Apple possibly make to meet your incredibly high standards?
No I think he said he had an original iPhone. Whether or not it is connected to a carrier I wouldn't speculate but I believed that cost of ownership was his problem. But to your point, his knowledge of the functions and features of the iPhone appears to be quite extensive. More than mine and I have owned every iPhone since day one. It is not his lack of knowledge that is bothersome so much as he is in your face 24/7 proving how smart he is and stupid you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar
if you (pooch) have not noticed yet there are three (at least i assume) .... tallest skil, melgross, melvin.
and "as an appleinsider global moderator, is that your official position?" it is his "globol moderator" position... he typed it did he not ?...
if you want you know if it is appleinsiders... ask him that...( but he already answered that question... )
I see air moving in front of your mouth...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why is every Apple website reporting on this thing? Why do we care?
Because most of us don't want to live in a bubble....???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope
Bold move indeed. But Is this also a do-or-die release for Nokia?
If this is a the swansong, it is a beautiful swansong.
A little thick-ish looking (I don't know if that's illusion or fact) - but, based on lots of nice features, and to resurrect a 1964 political slogan, truly "A choice, not an echo."
(which I hate to tell Nokia, was Goldwater's swan song).
It dropped about the time the event began, down to about -14.5%. Then it inched its way back to -9.2%. But now, it's down to -14.3% again.
What I think is important here is that no Win Phone has captured the imagination of the consumer. I believe that it's caused by a major miscommunication between Microsoft and consumers. They've often been accused of not understanding consumers, and I think that's correct.
When Win Phone first came out, and Microsoft had theater $500 million advertising blitz, the point they were making, which was roundly criticized, was that with other phones, people spent too much time using them, and with wp, you could get on the phone, do your thing quickly, and get off again.
But people like their smartphones. They really like their smartphones. They don't want to get on and off quickly. That's a fundamental disagreement with what people want in their phones. And indeed, it's actually hard to use more than a few apps with Win Phone.
Another problem is the very concept of connective ness with Win Phone. Not everyone wants the first thing they see to be Facebook, or Twitter, or whatever. And the integration, while there, has been critiqued as being very basic—done much better with apps on other platforms. Maybe it's better with wp8.
It's possible that the entire concept of wp is wrong for most people. If that's the case, then they, and their ODM's are in a lot of trouble.
The market reaction today is that there's nothing in wp8, or Nokia's new phones, that consumers are going to drool over, and therefor, leave Android or iOS over. I would imagine that most consumers aren't even going to understand the major difference wp8 is from wp7. They look the same, and that's all the take will be.
And Nokia may not have that much time left. Their debt load is larger than their cash, marketable securities and investments. Major debt becomes due in early 2013, which really isn't that far away. The debt is rated at junk status. And has been degraded even from that. If they use some cash for expenditures, and tap into the two credit lines they still have, their position could be precarious early next year when that large debt becomes due, with another in 2016.
It's felt that they may not make it. If Symbian sales continue to fall faster than Win Phone sales increase, their situation will continue to deteriorate. And they are being hammered on the low end by ZTE and others. Additionally, thei networking division is also in bad shape, and they can't sell it, though they've tried.
So it can be seen why the stock is down so much today. And that won't help matters.
Meanwhile, I have doubts that the 4 million Win Phones they supposedly sold last quarter were sell through to consumers, rather than sales to the channel. I live in NYC, and I'm on the street and in the subways a fair amount of time. I've yet to see Win Phone anywhere. Mostly iPhones, Android phones and featurephones.
If the holiday quarter isn't good for them, it could be the beginning of the end.
"wireless charging"
which is actually a WIRED brick that has to have physical contact with the phone without any traditional plug between the two that makes it less reliable and less power-efficient.
So you have to pick up the brick and the phone together, carefully, to answer a call or doing anything on the device.
Compared to the traditional charger where you just pick up the phone with the plugged cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
They keep releasing products no one is buying.
This wasn't even a product release. It was an announcement of something they're working on, hopefully to be released in the future at an unspecified date for an unannounced price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad
Digital image stabilization. There's a big difference between digital (iPhone) and optical (Lumia) image stabilization.
There is.
This video looks pretty impressive to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimDfEIEiu0&feature=BFa&list=PLgKNvl454BxeDMU2rPf3Y7rjegrzYwd7U
Ah, if the iPhone didn't exist, there wouldn't BE Lumia phones. The status quo would be the same as it was before 2007, except that there would be a clone of the Blackberry phone in Android, but without BES server.
totally agree , nice to see a company thinking on innovative tech like wireless charging.
Well done Nokia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
It currently seems like the most compelling non-iPhone option (read: threat). Other than the GSIII, that is.
Agreed.. although I think the GS3 seems like a nicer phone. I have a friend that traded in his 4S for the GS3 (why I still don't know) - but he loves it. I've played around with it a bit, and it's pretty cool. Although I don't plan to leave the iphone.
How many other companies are even making a windows phone besides Nokia? I am sure a few are, but they certainly aren't pushing or advertising them heavily. If Nokia fails (which is likely) will that be the end of Windows as a phone option?
do you REALLLLY believe that?
That with capacitive touchscreens just becoming affordable enough for mobile and radios speeding up and processors becoming more efficient and powerful that the same ish would've been happening now as was then?
Really?
It'd be a different landscape, and for all you know a better one...
The only truth is there probably wouldn't be a Lumia...but there'd probably be phones LIKE the Lumia or better or completely different, etc.
The Tech to allow the iPhone hardly existed when the iPhone came out...at it's price point it couldn't even have existed in 2006.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Is the implication that you think this is better than Apple's offerings? Can you really say that until the 12th? Of course I look around at other things.
It's an Apple website. I just don't see much reason to report on the others unless there's some direct relation or comparison to Apple's offerings. And at the very least, it doesn't belong in the iPhone subforum, but many generic news postings in the phone industry wind up here, so that's just a difference of opinion.
Blah, blah, FUD, blah blah, gloom and doom… THIS is why I don't like seeing competitor crap here. Pulls the trolls even further out of the woodwork.
I agree with you Tall One. If the site would stick to Apple information more, maybe the discussions would not end up getting into a word match between the pro and con Apple fans. If I want to learn about Nokia and Win8, I will go to their site and likewise to learn Android go to the Android forums.
After learning about the different phones, go try out a few at the carriers sale office. My small carrier even lets you use a phone for a few days without buying it so you can decide if it is the right one for your personal preference.
Enough of the bickering and let's get more discussions on Apple products and less on the competitors offerings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Ah, if the iPhone didn't exist, there wouldn't BE Lumia phones. The status quo would be the same as it was before 2007, except that there would be a clone of the Blackberry phone in Android, but without BES server.
Competition is good. It drives innovation from everyone.
My iPhone 4 is getting a couple of years old now... it was much better than my 3G before it, which was better than my BB before that. But to me, the question is will the 5 be a step forward with new features worthy of moving to, or will it be an incremental upgrade like the 4S?
From what I've seen, I don't see the revolution and that worries me. Friends will have phones more feature packed.
I hope I'm wrong and that Apple are leaping forward keeping ahead of phones like the Lumia.
I hate the GS3
some cool features wrapped in a me too OS skin embodied in a zero effort design shell.
Tsk tisk
I still remember when my photo teacher said phone camera's couldn't take good enough photo's to be used in our digital photo class...I wonder if they can use phones now.
just when I thought the Micorsoft UI could not get any fuglier, they went and proved me wrong. What a disaster! Windows Phone 7 was a total failure, and now the sequel, Windows Phone 8 will be another total failure. Wonder how much more shareholder money Microsoft is going to piss away on this failed platform?