And my Dashboard widget is reacting even worse. Does anyone else have no chart for today, just the numbers? And why is Apple also down? Seems everyone's down; couldn't that be something bigger and not just Nokia being bad at what they do?
I have charts, but one can go to Yahoo Finance and find anything they like. Nokia is down over 16.5%. I'm amazed at how the financial community is looki g at this. The stock made a couple of attempts to move back up, but it's one of the worst sell offs I've ever seen. The volume is unbelievable: Over 211 million shares trades hands today. More than four times the usual amount. Incredible!
Now you've done it. Here they come. The Natural Progression Brigade is after you.
That's ok, I know the facts here. And a few posters can argue with the entire industry about them for all I care.
Nice phone. I love windows UI... 4.5 screen size is the "sweet spot" for me. I have a company iPhone 4S. if Apple new iPhone is just a bigger 4s, with better specs. I will carry 2 phones, the 4s and lumia. No android for me!
Thank You! I agree 100% and am shocked that certain Apple fans are oblivious to the fact that most smartphone owners (even iPhone owners) want a larger screen and I doubt the new 4" elongated version will satisfy this hunger. I would be satisfied with 4.3" but if I had my druthers it would be 4.5". Apple will eventually get the message and make a larger screen, but probably not until 2014.
Can you furnish a link or other citation to support: "most smartphone owners (even iPhone owners) want a larger screen"?
Personally, I want a smaller phone with a larger screen.
Why is every Apple website reporting on this thing? Why do we care?
Speak for yourself. Some of us, although we prefer Apple for clear reasons, also love technology and are interested about the industry as a whole and new products. I don't see it as a point of pride to only be concerned about or follow news and products related to Apple. This is Nokia/Microsoft's flagship phone which it will use to launch Windows 8. It's a pretty big deal in the mobile phone industry, and just happens to have some cool new features. Do I think I will be buying it? I doubt it, but thats irrelevant. I won't kill me to read about it. Nor will it kill you to read a single article about another company's flagship product once every few months. And if you don't care, you're free not to click on the article and take the effort to post about how you don't care- advice you give to others constantly- and advice you should take for yourself, especially in a position as a mod.
So again, speak for yourself. You're not 'we', and just because most people who post/visit here have an interest in Apple, does not mean we want to have blinders on and pretend nothing else exists. Its an utterly fanboyish attitude, n better than those that shit on every iPhone release because its an iPhone. I prefer Apple products because of pragmatic reasons I can clearly and specifically articulate, and if another company somehow supercedes Apple in the big things I care about, I would be open to purchasing their products.
For some weird reasons, people here seem to love Nokia phones, which I just couldn't understand. I mean, it's Win OS, which just very bulky and way too busy compared to the iOS. "At least they're not copying Apple" is not a good reason to like a phone, period.
Samsung, Sony, LG and HTC. They've all been making Win Phone since the beginning. Samsung did do marketing. AT&T, Win Phone biggest supporter did over $100 million in Win Phone advertising since it came out.
Nokia never really made much of an effort in the U.S. market. They only seem to release phones on AT&T and AFAIK have no CDMA phones in a country where over 60% of the population are on a CDMA network. The only WIndows phone on Sprint was the HTC Arrive which is now discontinued and no plans for any Windows 8 phone. I don't think Verizon has a Windows phone either ATM. All the companies you listed seem to have flagship models running Android. I just don't see how windows can survive if Nokia folds since the other companies seem to only support Windows very half heartedly.
Microsoft screwed the pooch on this one by waiting so late to release the new Windows phone. They used to have a very high percentage of users on the old WinMo release back in 2007 and it was actually pretty well liked and had tens of thousands of apps that suddenly became obsolete with the new OS. They needed a better strategy to bring all those users and app developers into their new OS but failed miserably. They gave iOS and then Android several years to steal all their old customers. I am one of them. I used to have a HTC Touch Pro then the Touch Pro II which were very good phones at the time. But Android made WinMo 6.5 look slow and obsolete so I made the switch and then switched again to iPhone when it came to my carrier. The first Windows phones were all mid-range type phone like the HTC Arrive and not until this new Nokia shown today has Windows had a flagship type phone than can compete with the likes of the iPhone or Galaxy S III in specs.
which is actually a WIRED brick that has to have physical contact with the phone without any traditional plug between the two that makes it less reliable and less power-efficient.
So you have to pick up the brick and the phone together, carefully, to answer a call or doing anything on the device.
Compared to the traditional charger where you just pick up the phone with the plugged cable.
yet you'll love it when Apple introduces it and think they invented it.
Ah, if the iPhone didn't exist, there wouldn't BE Lumia phones. The status quo would be the same as it was before 2007, except that there would be a clone of the Blackberry phone in Android, but without BES server.
That's exaggerating a bit. I think phones on par with the first iPhone would be the phones of today hadn't it been for Apple.
This fall, I'm skipping the next iPhone and getting either this phone or the Samsung ATIV S with the 4.7 inch screen. Windows Phone 8 looks a lot more attractive to me than iOS6.
Can you furnish a link or other citation to support: "most smartphone owners (even iPhone owners) want a larger screen"?
Personally, I want a smaller phone with a larger screen.
Even you want a larger screen, even if you also want a smaller phone. The most popular Android phones on the big 4 carriers by a wide margin in the U.S. all have large screens. The SIII has a 4.8" screen, so I hope you will at least admit there is a huge demand for large screen among Android customers. As far as a link for iPhone, there are plenty. Here is one that shows most iPhone customers want a larger display. There are many other polls with tens of thousands of votes that showed up to 95% wanting a bigger display.
"That is the implication of a new study by Strategy Analytics, which found that 90 percent of American and British smartphone owners want a screen size larger than the one on the smartphone they currently own, with 4-to-4.5-inch smartphones being the most popular ideal size. Survey takers were offered prototype smartphones of varying display size and thickness and asked to choose which they preferred: Thin devices with displays between 4-inches and 4.5-inches came out on top in the survey."
Nokia never really made much of an effort in the U.S. market. They only seem to release phones on AT&T and AFAIK have no CDMA phones in a country where over 60% of the population are on a CDMA network. The only WIndows phone on Sprint was the HTC Arrive which is now discontinued and no plans for any Windows 8 phone. I don't think Verizon has a Windows phone either ATM. All the companies you listed seem to have flagship models running Android. I just don't see how windows can survive if Nokia folds since the other companies seem to only support Windows very half heartedly.
Microsoft screwed the pooch on this one by waiting so late to release the new Windows phone. They used to have a very high percentage of users on the old WinMo release back in 2007 and it was actually pretty well liked and had tens of thousands of apps that suddenly became obsolete with the new OS. They needed a better strategy to bring all those users and app developers into their new OS but failed miserably. They gave iOS and then Android several years to steal all their old customers. I am one of them. I used to have a HTC Touch Pro then the Touch Pro II which were very good phones at the time. But Android made WinMo 6.5 look slow and obsolete so I made the switch and then switched again to iPhone when it came to my carrier. The first Windows phones were all mid-range type phone like the HTC Arrive and not until this new Nokia shown today has Windows had a flagship type phone than can compete with the likes of the iPhone or Galaxy S III in specs.
Every other manufacturer other than Apple had a major problem. I say that because Apple was the first to apply a real heavy duty desktop based OS into a phone. There have been Linux phones, but they've been really cut down and don't really do that much. Apple's, of course, is UNIX.
So Apple could do what no one else could. Android came out a year later, after having its orientation changed from a BB copy to an iPhone copy. But that was it! Everyone else was using either realtime OS's for their phones, or in the case of RIM, a pager OS. All were very weak.
Microsoft was using CE in Win Mobile, and they had nothing else. People don't understand just how long it takes to develop a new OS—years! Even modifying an old one can take a couple of years; look at the problem RIM is having with QNX.
So Microsoft used CE for Win Phone. There's no doubt they knew it was just for a couple of years. There is no way that wasn't the plan from the very beginning. And there's no doubt they knew it wouldn't be compatable with its replacement. They had to know that from the first day they decided to do Win Phone.
But they were desperate. They needed something to compete with the new UI of iOS and Android, and they needed it as fast as possible. The only way was to go with CE and Metro from the Zune HD. After all, they had them already.
They could have saved a lot of trouble for users by using the version of CE that allowed multiple cores, etc. but it would have been too much work, as they hadn't used that for a phone OS. It would have allowed dual core wp7 phones, higher resolutions, and better graphics chips, and so could have allowed upgrades to wp8, if done right. But, no time.
So they got what they had and used it. And customers got the result. It was a placeholder for wp8. Now, the question is whether customers with old phones that aren't yet eligible for a replacement will receive a discount on a new phone.
I know, it was more information than you want, but I felt I should explain why we're seeing what we're seeing so late in the game. They had no choice.
That's exaggerating a bit. I think phones on par with the first iPhone would be the phones of today hadn't it been for Apple.
I doubt it very much. I remember the field of phones before the iPhone, and none of them were anything like it. Win Mobile phones had large screens for the day, because the pretend Windows UI had so many tiny things to poke at with the stylus that with a small screen, you couldn't get anything useful done.
A reason why it can be seen that I'm right is because of the several year lag other companies had in attempts to duplicate Apple's work. If phone were moving to Apple's model, other companies would have had them sooner, and they would have been much better from the start, but they didn't, and they weren't.
In fact, all the major producers stated that the iPhone wouldn't make it, and as it did, that it was a fluke, or a boutique phone, etc. We all remember the interview with Ballmer laughing that while Apple would sell millions of phones, Microsoft would have their OS on hundreds of millions (or however he phrased it).
People were criticizing the touchscreen. They criticized the touchscreen keyboard. They criticized everything. They criticized the idea of it acting as an iPod.
No, there wasn't a single company in the industry that had any understanding of this. They were all pretty much the same. Complex, hard to use, selling in what we now see as small numbers (a couple of million sales of a model was a big deal back then).
Anyone give free OS upgrades? Nope! Even updates? Nope, other than a small security fix, or a fix for a date problem. Usually, there was no upgrade at all. You had to buy a new phone.
There was no way these companies would get from where they were to where they are if it weren't for the iPhone. Like it or not, that's the truth. They just weren't mentally suited to go in the direction Apple went in.
This fall, I'm skipping the next iPhone and getting either this phone or the Samsung ATIV S with the 4.7 inch screen. Windows Phone 8 looks a lot more attractive to me than iOS6.
Agree - looks like a very nice device. Not sure about wireless charging - it is very convenient but supposedly very inefficient. What I'd like is a stand or cradle with a magnetized connector. It would be great if the 9 pin connector in the new iphone could also be used with a charging base that didn't require 'penetration' in order to charge.
I wasn't too interested in wireless charging... but then I came across JBL speaker box that charges phone and plays music from the phone wirelessly. You just put your phone on top of the box (actually wireless playback works over some distance too). No docking ports, cables to break/damage. I think it is nice.
Now the question is, how long does it take to charge phone.
I don't care about inductive charging. My toothbrush has it so they can waterproof the base because, you know, people like to keep their toothbrushes next to the sink. I see no reason why a phone needs it.
Augmented reality apps are not new. There are iPhone apps that do that. Maybe Nokia's is better, I don't know. I've never used one. Yelp and standard maps apps seem to work just fine.
Soooo... other than the camera, why should I give up my iPhone for this?
It actually doesn't (have a better camera).
Despite what the article says, this camera is nothing like the 41 megapixel camera demonstrated last year. In fact this camera has almost identical specs to the camera on the iPhone 4s, and works in the same way with more or less the same sensors. It has optical stabilisation instead of digital (6 of one and half dozen of the other), but otherwise is a fairly standard camera much like you can find on any device lately.
Anyway, "PureView" is a brand, (not a "technology" as the article states).
Why do you keep saying this? We don't make policy. Site owners do. We're entitled to our own opinions, for heaven's sake.
because it's confusing. because in your role as appleinsider.com global moderator you routinely disparage people for the same type of comments which you yourself post. you most certainly are entitled to your own opinions, but it seems that in your role as global moderator you would, you know, moderate, and then have a separate 'personal' login where you can express your personal opinions. i never know whether the comments you're making are in your capacity as official appleinsider.com global moderator or in your capacity as just another site user.
The price should be easy. 920 = iPhone 5. The lower one is $100 cheaper. But i guess they might wanna see how advance iPhone 5 is and change the price accordingly?
I think they'll try to better that. One of Nokia VIPs said they want to make new Lumias more affordable (than typical price for that level, I'd presume?)... and undercutting direct competitors is always a bonus when you are playing catch up.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
So, it has a better camera then.
<snip>
Soooo... other than the camera, why should I give up my iPhone for this?
I'd love a bigger screen. My 41-year-old eyes would welcome it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why is every Apple website reporting on this thing? Why do we care?
Must be sad living in such a small bubble...
I have charts, but one can go to Yahoo Finance and find anything they like. Nokia is down over 16.5%. I'm amazed at how the financial community is looki g at this. The stock made a couple of attempts to move back up, but it's one of the worst sell offs I've ever seen. The volume is unbelievable: Over 211 million shares trades hands today. More than four times the usual amount. Incredible!
That's ok, I know the facts here. And a few posters can argue with the entire industry about them for all I care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahblade
Nice phone. I love windows UI... 4.5 screen size is the "sweet spot" for me. I have a company iPhone 4S. if Apple new iPhone is just a bigger 4s, with better specs. I will carry 2 phones, the 4s and lumia. No android for me!
Thank You! I agree 100% and am shocked that certain Apple fans are oblivious to the fact that most smartphone owners (even iPhone owners) want a larger screen and I doubt the new 4" elongated version will satisfy this hunger. I would be satisfied with 4.3" but if I had my druthers it would be 4.5". Apple will eventually get the message and make a larger screen, but probably not until 2014.
Can you furnish a link or other citation to support: "most smartphone owners (even iPhone owners) want a larger screen"?
Personally, I want a smaller phone with a larger screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why is every Apple website reporting on this thing? Why do we care?
Speak for yourself. Some of us, although we prefer Apple for clear reasons, also love technology and are interested about the industry as a whole and new products. I don't see it as a point of pride to only be concerned about or follow news and products related to Apple. This is Nokia/Microsoft's flagship phone which it will use to launch Windows 8. It's a pretty big deal in the mobile phone industry, and just happens to have some cool new features. Do I think I will be buying it? I doubt it, but thats irrelevant. I won't kill me to read about it. Nor will it kill you to read a single article about another company's flagship product once every few months. And if you don't care, you're free not to click on the article and take the effort to post about how you don't care- advice you give to others constantly- and advice you should take for yourself, especially in a position as a mod.
So again, speak for yourself. You're not 'we', and just because most people who post/visit here have an interest in Apple, does not mean we want to have blinders on and pretend nothing else exists. Its an utterly fanboyish attitude, n better than those that shit on every iPhone release because its an iPhone. I prefer Apple products because of pragmatic reasons I can clearly and specifically articulate, and if another company somehow supercedes Apple in the big things I care about, I would be open to purchasing their products.
just hate it least
Originally Posted by melgross
The volume is unbelievable: Over 211 million shares trades hands today. More than four times the usual amount. Incredible!
"Nokia is saved!" cry their proponents! Ignoring, of course, the direction in which the 'trade hands' is going.
Oh, wait, they really ARE saved!
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Samsung, Sony, LG and HTC. They've all been making Win Phone since the beginning. Samsung did do marketing. AT&T, Win Phone biggest supporter did over $100 million in Win Phone advertising since it came out.
Nokia never really made much of an effort in the U.S. market. They only seem to release phones on AT&T and AFAIK have no CDMA phones in a country where over 60% of the population are on a CDMA network. The only WIndows phone on Sprint was the HTC Arrive which is now discontinued and no plans for any Windows 8 phone. I don't think Verizon has a Windows phone either ATM. All the companies you listed seem to have flagship models running Android. I just don't see how windows can survive if Nokia folds since the other companies seem to only support Windows very half heartedly.
Microsoft screwed the pooch on this one by waiting so late to release the new Windows phone. They used to have a very high percentage of users on the old WinMo release back in 2007 and it was actually pretty well liked and had tens of thousands of apps that suddenly became obsolete with the new OS. They needed a better strategy to bring all those users and app developers into their new OS but failed miserably. They gave iOS and then Android several years to steal all their old customers. I am one of them. I used to have a HTC Touch Pro then the Touch Pro II which were very good phones at the time. But Android made WinMo 6.5 look slow and obsolete so I made the switch and then switched again to iPhone when it came to my carrier. The first Windows phones were all mid-range type phone like the HTC Arrive and not until this new Nokia shown today has Windows had a flagship type phone than can compete with the likes of the iPhone or Galaxy S III in specs.
yet you'll love it when Apple introduces it and think they invented it.
That's exaggerating a bit. I think phones on par with the first iPhone would be the phones of today hadn't it been for Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Can you furnish a link or other citation to support: "most smartphone owners (even iPhone owners) want a larger screen"?
Personally, I want a smaller phone with a larger screen.
Even you want a larger screen, even if you also want a smaller phone. The most popular Android phones on the big 4 carriers by a wide margin in the U.S. all have large screens. The SIII has a 4.8" screen, so I hope you will at least admit there is a huge demand for large screen among Android customers. As far as a link for iPhone, there are plenty. Here is one that shows most iPhone customers want a larger display. There are many other polls with tens of thousands of votes that showed up to 95% wanting a bigger display.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-20029174-82.html
Here is another one with 95% wanting a larger display between 4" and 4.5".
"That is the implication of a new study by Strategy Analytics, which found that 90 percent of American and British smartphone owners want a screen size larger than the one on the smartphone they currently own, with 4-to-4.5-inch smartphones being the most popular ideal size. Survey takers were offered prototype smartphones of varying display size and thickness and asked to choose which they preferred: Thin devices with displays between 4-inches and 4.5-inches came out on top in the survey."
Every other manufacturer other than Apple had a major problem. I say that because Apple was the first to apply a real heavy duty desktop based OS into a phone. There have been Linux phones, but they've been really cut down and don't really do that much. Apple's, of course, is UNIX.
So Apple could do what no one else could. Android came out a year later, after having its orientation changed from a BB copy to an iPhone copy. But that was it! Everyone else was using either realtime OS's for their phones, or in the case of RIM, a pager OS. All were very weak.
Microsoft was using CE in Win Mobile, and they had nothing else. People don't understand just how long it takes to develop a new OS—years! Even modifying an old one can take a couple of years; look at the problem RIM is having with QNX.
So Microsoft used CE for Win Phone. There's no doubt they knew it was just for a couple of years. There is no way that wasn't the plan from the very beginning. And there's no doubt they knew it wouldn't be compatable with its replacement. They had to know that from the first day they decided to do Win Phone.
But they were desperate. They needed something to compete with the new UI of iOS and Android, and they needed it as fast as possible. The only way was to go with CE and Metro from the Zune HD. After all, they had them already.
They could have saved a lot of trouble for users by using the version of CE that allowed multiple cores, etc. but it would have been too much work, as they hadn't used that for a phone OS. It would have allowed dual core wp7 phones, higher resolutions, and better graphics chips, and so could have allowed upgrades to wp8, if done right. But, no time.
So they got what they had and used it. And customers got the result. It was a placeholder for wp8. Now, the question is whether customers with old phones that aren't yet eligible for a replacement will receive a discount on a new phone.
I know, it was more information than you want, but I felt I should explain why we're seeing what we're seeing so late in the game. They had no choice.
I doubt it very much. I remember the field of phones before the iPhone, and none of them were anything like it. Win Mobile phones had large screens for the day, because the pretend Windows UI had so many tiny things to poke at with the stylus that with a small screen, you couldn't get anything useful done.
A reason why it can be seen that I'm right is because of the several year lag other companies had in attempts to duplicate Apple's work. If phone were moving to Apple's model, other companies would have had them sooner, and they would have been much better from the start, but they didn't, and they weren't.
In fact, all the major producers stated that the iPhone wouldn't make it, and as it did, that it was a fluke, or a boutique phone, etc. We all remember the interview with Ballmer laughing that while Apple would sell millions of phones, Microsoft would have their OS on hundreds of millions (or however he phrased it).
People were criticizing the touchscreen. They criticized the touchscreen keyboard. They criticized everything. They criticized the idea of it acting as an iPod.
No, there wasn't a single company in the industry that had any understanding of this. They were all pretty much the same. Complex, hard to use, selling in what we now see as small numbers (a couple of million sales of a model was a big deal back then).
Anyone give free OS upgrades? Nope! Even updates? Nope, other than a small security fix, or a fix for a date problem. Usually, there was no upgrade at all. You had to buy a new phone.
There was no way these companies would get from where they were to where they are if it weren't for the iPhone. Like it or not, that's the truth. They just weren't mentally suited to go in the direction Apple went in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSince86
Yecch... hideous. It hurts the eyes to even look at those phones and displays. As Steve Jobs said of Microsoft, they just have no taste.
You crack me up!
Good for you!
I wasn't too interested in wireless charging... but then I came across JBL speaker box that charges phone and plays music from the phone wirelessly. You just put your phone on top of the box (actually wireless playback works over some distance too). No docking ports, cables to break/damage. I think it is nice.
Now the question is, how long does it take to charge phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
So, it has a better camera then.
I don't care about inductive charging. My toothbrush has it so they can waterproof the base because, you know, people like to keep their toothbrushes next to the sink. I see no reason why a phone needs it.
Augmented reality apps are not new. There are iPhone apps that do that. Maybe Nokia's is better, I don't know. I've never used one. Yelp and standard maps apps seem to work just fine.
Soooo... other than the camera, why should I give up my iPhone for this?
It actually doesn't (have a better camera).
Despite what the article says, this camera is nothing like the 41 megapixel camera demonstrated last year. In fact this camera has almost identical specs to the camera on the iPhone 4s, and works in the same way with more or less the same sensors. It has optical stabilisation instead of digital (6 of one and half dozen of the other), but otherwise is a fairly standard camera much like you can find on any device lately.
Anyway, "PureView" is a brand, (not a "technology" as the article states).
because it's confusing. because in your role as appleinsider.com global moderator you routinely disparage people for the same type of comments which you yourself post. you most certainly are entitled to your own opinions, but it seems that in your role as global moderator you would, you know, moderate, and then have a separate 'personal' login where you can express your personal opinions. i never know whether the comments you're making are in your capacity as official appleinsider.com global moderator or in your capacity as just another site user.
I think they'll try to better that. One of Nokia VIPs said they want to make new Lumias more affordable (than typical price for that level, I'd presume?)... and undercutting direct competitors is always a bonus when you are playing catch up.