All your points here are valid, and even this image is, in spirit, except I believe that in this specific instance the road is a one-way south (while the part of the road north of Market St. is one-way north), so those directions are correct. I could be wrong, though.
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
How old are those images...
… What's this? Things can change… over TIME? You mean problems can be fixed?
I mostly agree with your comments and posts on AI!
But here, I disagree.
Anything worth doing, is worth doing... even if that means doing it badly.
In a "game" that involves experience [usage] and catching up with the leader -- the sooner you enter the "game" the better! Apple is likely 1-2 years behind Google in mobile mapping data (just the map data, not street view, traffic, Public Trans or 3D).
If Apple were to wait a year -- they would still be 1-2 years behind... maybe even more.
Apple's acquisitions for mapping have a lot more potential than just a mobile maps app -- PlaceBase * and the PushPin * API do [did] things that Google Maps cannot do; Apples 3D is superior in speed and rendering over Google 3D. Entry into the mobile map market will allow to refine the mobile offering as well as these additional, unreleased, capabilities.
* Search for these terms and you will find some writeups on some pretty amazing interactive mapping capabilities. Unfortunately the articles reference demo web sites that are no longer available.
Basically, you had a base (zoomable, pannable, terrain, etc.) maps layer and overlays... Through a simple scripting API you could overlay almost anything on a map (age, median income, years of college, other census data, political data, adult book stores...). And you could interactively change/combine the overlays.
I agree that the app has great potential. That's obvious. But from what I can see there are some very basic flaws that make a lot of teething problems much less excusable.
Let's agree to disagree.
I see your point, yes, Apple *has to* at some point release *something*, and given that they're new to this area in comparison to Google, they might as well release it and get the ball rolling. It just seems to really stick out and stand apart from what we're used to with Apple. In my view, Siri teething pains are fine, hell . . . even Final Cut Pro feature removals, because in one instance we have a beta product that is useful but still a novelty, so Apple can afford to experiment. On the other hand we have an app that Pros use, but that doesn't affect the bulk of the market.
The thing here is, is that *this* is an app that is part of core functionality, used by everyone. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect Apple to get it right the first time out, no matter what. In which case, I'd expect Tim Cook to work something out with Larry Page, until Apple can actually get their app competitive, which it really isn't. Or maybe an agreement between Apple and Google is no longer possible . . .
I have a friend who lived in Manhattan in Tribeca, he ended up on Staten Island. Worked fine in the google version. I think that Apple released this app way to early, very unlike Apple. Steve probably would have been very upset to say the least. That being said other than the location errors, I do like the way the App looks and performs. It will give you directions contrary to what I understood another poster said. I think this will be an improvement once the map works properly. BTW there is some fine print on the flip over page that has a place to report errors. Which makes me wonder if they are using us as beta testers, which would be fine if we were let in on the secret.
Also, for those of you still with 5.1 go ahead and open your maps app and take it over to Arlington, TX. Then search for "Rooms to go" (ya know, one of the largest furniture chains in the country) and see what happens. Google doesn't give you a damn thing even though there are 7 in DFW and 1 specifically in Arlington (http://roomstogo.com/storelocator/stores.jsp?zipcode=76011&r=R&lat=32.7542&long=-97.0824&_requestid=711700)
Yeah, that same google maps that everyone seems to think is the gold standard.
… What's this? Things can change… over TIME? You mean problems can be fixed?
Nobody is arguing that things can't change over time, but this is the equivalent of replacing your starting all-star NBA forward with a high school senior.
… What's this? Things can change… over TIME? You mean problems can be fixed?
Exactly the point!
Apple has spent more than USD $1 bn on Apple Maps thus far.
What I notice is that those complaining are using the same few examples over and over again.
My street isn't on Google Maps even though the street has been here nearly two decades.
The thing is that Apple Maps is already in many ways better than Google Maps.
The fact that there are so many first posts in this thread suggests PostLoop (or their competitors) have been paid a bundle to spam the Internet with complaints about iPhone 5 and iOS 6.
So… they never improved OS X from the 10.0 Public Beta. Got it. And what was "worsened" going from PowerPC to Intel?
I *think* bigpics is saying that Apple was up-front right from the start about the fact that OS X 10.0 was a stepping stone to greater things, and that there would, indeed, be some initial growing pains in the initial transition from the mature state of classic Mac OS.
The complaint, from this particular user, appears to be the that Apple's representation of this change in iOS 6 wasn't made with similar public caveats. If Apple has made it explicitly clear up front that such growing pains could be expected, then I suspect bigpics wouldn't have had this complaint.
(I note, too, that during the OS X transition Apple kept Classic around for people who needed features that hadn't yet been migrated. That would have been nice...)
the interface for the new Maps app is great and flyover, where it is available, is nice eye candy. The issue in the app is the old adage: "garbage in, garbage out." The cartography is terrible compared to Google and Bing. I can't see streets due to the choice of light streets on a light background. Traffic is non-existent in many cities, or you see a few areas where crowd-sourced data exists.
If this was the maps we started with in 2007, no problem. However,we have had 5 years of using arguably the best dataset available in the world. And now, we are back 5-6 years in this department. Therefore, the user experience mantra has really been thrown out here.
Yes I understand Google didn't want to give turn-by-turn etc so Apple had to do something on their own. I don't miss Steetview or Transit directions much, but I miss the quality of the standard maps, period.
I agree with this post 0%. There is some great work put into the maps and the overall software is really good. But the data is very week. Apple needs a team of 2-3 thousand people working on these issues. Missing data, parks, much more fly over coverage, better contrast colors.
Buy MapQuest for gods sake. They have beautiful maps and better data. Use the report a problem and UPDATE THE ISSUES USERS POINT OUT. I see lots of potential in this app but they need to update often and iterate fast on this one. Updates every 2 weeks or so for the next year.
Nobody is arguing that things can't change over time, but this is the equivalent of replacing your starting all-star NBA forward with a high school senior.
Well-written analogy. But I think in this case I'd rather a 18 year old with his entire future to shape than a 35 year old with merely a history of success.
Originally Posted by lfmorrison
I *think* bigpics is saying that Apple was up-front right from the start about the fact that OS X 10.0 was a stepping stone to greater things, and that there would, indeed, be some initial growing pains in the initial transition from the mature state of classic Mac OS.
The complaint, from this particular user, appears to be the that Apple's representation of this change in iOS 6 wasn't made with similar public caveats. If Apple has made it explicitly clear up front that such growing pains could be expected, then I suspect bigpics wouldn't have had this complaint.
(I note, too, that during the OS X transition Apple kept Classic around for people who needed features that hadn't yet been migrated. That would have been nice...)
Okay, I buy that. Note, though, that Google Maps, as with any other service, is accessible in Safari.
Originally Posted by Steven N.
Buy MapQuest for gods sake. They have beautiful maps and better data.
I believe it was stated earlier that while Apple uses OpenStreetMaps, they don't use ALL of the data available there. And while, yes, OpenStreetMaps is incomplete, I don't see a reason for not using 1:1 100% of the content available through them online in the Maps app if they truly are using OSM as a source.
I'm not overly impressed with maps at all. I was on a business trip yesterday and got totally lost because it sent me to an airport that wasn't operational.. the new airport (2 years old) wasn't listed on the map!
Also my wife couldn't find the number to a CVS pharmacy 3 miles from our house, because it didn't come up.
Apple has some serious work to do.. and on an app that I use all the time it better happen quick.
the interface for the new Maps app is great and flyover, where it is available, is nice eye candy. The issue in the app is the old adage: "garbage in, garbage out." The cartography is terrible compared to Google and Bing. I can't see streets due to the choice of light streets on a light background. Traffic is non-existent in many cities, or you see a few areas where crowd-sourced data exists.
If this was the maps we started with in 2007, no problem. However,we have had 5 years of using arguably the best dataset available in the world. And now, we are back 5-6 years in this department. Therefore, the user experience mantra has really been thrown out here.
Yes I understand Google didn't want to give turn-by-turn etc so Apple had to do something on their own. I don't miss Steetview or Transit directions much, but I miss the quality of the standard maps, period.
5-6, years? Really? Let's talk in 6 months. Making a new maps from the ground up is a MASSIVE undertaking, and you need to combine so much data from so many sources. Yes, there will be mistakes. Many. But Apple no doubt has a ton of people working on this who are highly motivated to make it as good as possible as fast as possible. Google has been building up their data for 10 years. Cut them some slack, Apple maps will improve quickly, especially now with user data and that its in the hands of millions of people. Meanwhile, the rate of which Google maps is improving will also slow grealt,y as they will lose access and usage data from hundreds of millions of IOS users. I honestly think that in 1 year from now, it will be a wash, or close to it. Apple KNOWS they need to get this right, at the expense of a massive outry, and I have no doubt they're committing a ton of resources to it. It's no small feat. Also, Apple would have not become a shadow of what it is to day with the mentality of some of you have, which is to leave development of such an important aspect of the OS in the hands of a competitior.
PS- this thread is like a pot of honey for trolls. The 'Steve wouldnt have let this happen" is bullshit. It's very tough to gauge the quality of an unreleased map app which covers millions of roads, townds, cities, POIs, etc. Even Apple, with all its resources, wouldnt have been able to do that. It will get better now that its in the hands of people.
It's this kind of thing that demonstrates how Apple will release a product that doesn't totally "delight" it's customers. It's not like Apple didn't know about all the problems their new map app had. The intentionally released a product that wasn't everything the their customers had come to expect, and even promoted it at the iOS 6 presentation months ago, which in retrospect was little more than lipstick on a pig.
Apple should have never made this move. They should have gone out of their way to work with Google to renew their contract with Google, all the while developing their own map app in secret (much as Google did to Apple with Android). Instead, Apple in a supreme act of arrogance has hurt its customer base substantially, and given new customers pause to consider buying the iPhone 5, and instead buying an Android phone, especially where map functionality is of primary importance to them. At least with Mobile Me customers had nothing to compare that debacle to, sadly, we have Google's maps and this just makes Apple look like hacks, covering their mistakes with flashy 3D flyovers that don't really add anything of substance.
Well-written analogy. But I think in this case I'd rather a 18 year old with his entire future to shape than a 35 year old with merely a history of success.
It's the closest analogy I could think of
But it's still not perfect. In the case of Google Maps, it doesn't deterioriate with age like an NBA player. It would only get better, stronger as it collects more data. Apple Maps is starting off years late and still has to compete with a juggernaut that is gobbling data and processing it like a madman. Apple will always have that usability gap since Google is so far ahead in the game and has its search engine to keep feeding data into Google Maps.
Comments
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
All your points here are valid, and even this image is, in spirit, except I believe that in this specific instance the road is a one-way south (while the part of the road north of Market St. is one-way north), so those directions are correct. I could be wrong, though.
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
How old are those images...
… What's this? Things can change… over TIME? You mean problems can be fixed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I mostly agree with your comments and posts on AI!
But here, I disagree.
Anything worth doing, is worth doing... even if that means doing it badly.
In a "game" that involves experience [usage] and catching up with the leader -- the sooner you enter the "game" the better! Apple is likely 1-2 years behind Google in mobile mapping data (just the map data, not street view, traffic, Public Trans or 3D).
If Apple were to wait a year -- they would still be 1-2 years behind... maybe even more.
Apple's acquisitions for mapping have a lot more potential than just a mobile maps app -- PlaceBase * and the PushPin * API do [did] things that Google Maps cannot do; Apples 3D is superior in speed and rendering over Google 3D. Entry into the mobile map market will allow to refine the mobile offering as well as these additional, unreleased, capabilities.
* Search for these terms and you will find some writeups on some pretty amazing interactive mapping capabilities. Unfortunately the articles reference demo web sites that are no longer available.
Basically, you had a base (zoomable, pannable, terrain, etc.) maps layer and overlays... Through a simple scripting API you could overlay almost anything on a map (age, median income, years of college, other census data, political data, adult book stores...). And you could interactively change/combine the overlays.
I agree that the app has great potential. That's obvious. But from what I can see there are some very basic flaws that make a lot of teething problems much less excusable.
Let's agree to disagree.
I see your point, yes, Apple *has to* at some point release *something*, and given that they're new to this area in comparison to Google, they might as well release it and get the ball rolling. It just seems to really stick out and stand apart from what we're used to with Apple. In my view, Siri teething pains are fine, hell . . . even Final Cut Pro feature removals, because in one instance we have a beta product that is useful but still a novelty, so Apple can afford to experiment. On the other hand we have an app that Pros use, but that doesn't affect the bulk of the market.
The thing here is, is that *this* is an app that is part of core functionality, used by everyone. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect Apple to get it right the first time out, no matter what. In which case, I'd expect Tim Cook to work something out with Larry Page, until Apple can actually get their app competitive, which it really isn't. Or maybe an agreement between Apple and Google is no longer possible . . .
Sheeh, chill folks.
If you miss Google Maps so much, access it via Safari.
Gave this a try, heres what I got:
Nobody is arguing that things can't change over time, but this is the equivalent of replacing your starting all-star NBA forward with a high school senior.
And iOS 6 Maps ain't no Kobe or Lebron
Exactly the point!
Apple has spent more than USD $1 bn on Apple Maps thus far.
What I notice is that those complaining are using the same few examples over and over again.
My street isn't on Google Maps even though the street has been here nearly two decades.
The thing is that Apple Maps is already in many ways better than Google Maps.
The fact that there are so many first posts in this thread suggests PostLoop (or their competitors) have been paid a bundle to spam the Internet with complaints about iPhone 5 and iOS 6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So… they never improved OS X from the 10.0 Public Beta. Got it. And what was "worsened" going from PowerPC to Intel?
I *think* bigpics is saying that Apple was up-front right from the start about the fact that OS X 10.0 was a stepping stone to greater things, and that there would, indeed, be some initial growing pains in the initial transition from the mature state of classic Mac OS.
The complaint, from this particular user, appears to be the that Apple's representation of this change in iOS 6 wasn't made with similar public caveats. If Apple has made it explicitly clear up front that such growing pains could be expected, then I suspect bigpics wouldn't have had this complaint.
(I note, too, that during the OS X transition Apple kept Classic around for people who needed features that hadn't yet been migrated. That would have been nice...)
I agree with this post 0%. There is some great work put into the maps and the overall software is really good. But the data is very week. Apple needs a team of 2-3 thousand people working on these issues. Missing data, parks, much more fly over coverage, better contrast colors.
Buy MapQuest for gods sake. They have beautiful maps and better data. Use the report a problem and UPDATE THE ISSUES USERS POINT OUT. I see lots of potential in this app but they need to update often and iterate fast on this one. Updates every 2 weeks or so for the next year.
It does guzzle a lot of energy though!
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
Nobody is arguing that things can't change over time, but this is the equivalent of replacing your starting all-star NBA forward with a high school senior.
Well-written analogy. But I think in this case I'd rather a 18 year old with his entire future to shape than a 35 year old with merely a history of success.
Originally Posted by lfmorrison
I *think* bigpics is saying that Apple was up-front right from the start about the fact that OS X 10.0 was a stepping stone to greater things, and that there would, indeed, be some initial growing pains in the initial transition from the mature state of classic Mac OS.
The complaint, from this particular user, appears to be the that Apple's representation of this change in iOS 6 wasn't made with similar public caveats. If Apple has made it explicitly clear up front that such growing pains could be expected, then I suspect bigpics wouldn't have had this complaint.
(I note, too, that during the OS X transition Apple kept Classic around for people who needed features that hadn't yet been migrated. That would have been nice...)
Okay, I buy that. Note, though, that Google Maps, as with any other service, is accessible in Safari.
Originally Posted by Steven N.
Buy MapQuest for gods sake. They have beautiful maps and better data.
I believe it was stated earlier that while Apple uses OpenStreetMaps, they don't use ALL of the data available there. And while, yes, OpenStreetMaps is incomplete, I don't see a reason for not using 1:1 100% of the content available through them online in the Maps app if they truly are using OSM as a source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
OK guys, let's just sit back and relax for a bit. Some afternoon laughter is in store. From the same link I posted earlier:
If you can't laugh, you have no soul
Haha thats fantastic!
Anyone know how much $$ it was costing Apple to license Google Maps on iOS? I'm betting it was substantial after selling 100s of millions iOS devices
I'm not overly impressed with maps at all. I was on a business trip yesterday and got totally lost because it sent me to an airport that wasn't operational.. the new airport (2 years old) wasn't listed on the map!
Also my wife couldn't find the number to a CVS pharmacy 3 miles from our house, because it didn't come up.
Apple has some serious work to do.. and on an app that I use all the time it better happen quick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleabuser
the interface for the new Maps app is great and flyover, where it is available, is nice eye candy. The issue in the app is the old adage: "garbage in, garbage out." The cartography is terrible compared to Google and Bing. I can't see streets due to the choice of light streets on a light background. Traffic is non-existent in many cities, or you see a few areas where crowd-sourced data exists.
If this was the maps we started with in 2007, no problem. However,we have had 5 years of using arguably the best dataset available in the world. And now, we are back 5-6 years in this department. Therefore, the user experience mantra has really been thrown out here.
Yes I understand Google didn't want to give turn-by-turn etc so Apple had to do something on their own. I don't miss Steetview or Transit directions much, but I miss the quality of the standard maps, period.
5-6, years? Really? Let's talk in 6 months. Making a new maps from the ground up is a MASSIVE undertaking, and you need to combine so much data from so many sources. Yes, there will be mistakes. Many. But Apple no doubt has a ton of people working on this who are highly motivated to make it as good as possible as fast as possible. Google has been building up their data for 10 years. Cut them some slack, Apple maps will improve quickly, especially now with user data and that its in the hands of millions of people. Meanwhile, the rate of which Google maps is improving will also slow grealt,y as they will lose access and usage data from hundreds of millions of IOS users. I honestly think that in 1 year from now, it will be a wash, or close to it. Apple KNOWS they need to get this right, at the expense of a massive outry, and I have no doubt they're committing a ton of resources to it. It's no small feat. Also, Apple would have not become a shadow of what it is to day with the mentality of some of you have, which is to leave development of such an important aspect of the OS in the hands of a competitior.
PS- this thread is like a pot of honey for trolls. The 'Steve wouldnt have let this happen" is bullshit. It's very tough to gauge the quality of an unreleased map app which covers millions of roads, townds, cities, POIs, etc. Even Apple, with all its resources, wouldnt have been able to do that. It will get better now that its in the hands of people.
See the difference for yourself.
I kind of like Nokia maps!
Apple is already using OpenStreetMap foundation's map information in some of its apps.
Thus, Apple can start adding OpenStreetMap's data to its TomTom and other data to improve its map data.
This is just the start.
"Ire"?
Oh my.
An old bit of savvy advice from my days at IBM (when they had 97% marketshare of maimframe computers).
"When you do something, do it really well... or screw it up really bad -- They won't remember what you did... but they'll recognize your name!"
A year from now this will be a non-issue... and we'll all recognize the name Apple.
Apple should have never made this move. They should have gone out of their way to work with Google to renew their contract with Google, all the while developing their own map app in secret (much as Google did to Apple with Android). Instead, Apple in a supreme act of arrogance has hurt its customer base substantially, and given new customers pause to consider buying the iPhone 5, and instead buying an Android phone, especially where map functionality is of primary importance to them. At least with Mobile Me customers had nothing to compare that debacle to, sadly, we have Google's maps and this just makes Apple look like hacks, covering their mistakes with flashy 3D flyovers that don't really add anything of substance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Well-written analogy. But I think in this case I'd rather a 18 year old with his entire future to shape than a 35 year old with merely a history of success.
It's the closest analogy I could think of
But it's still not perfect. In the case of Google Maps, it doesn't deterioriate with age like an NBA player. It would only get better, stronger as it collects more data. Apple Maps is starting off years late and still has to compete with a juggernaut that is gobbling data and processing it like a madman. Apple will always have that usability gap since Google is so far ahead in the game and has its search engine to keep feeding data into Google Maps.