No, actually there are always at least two choices in any situations. 0 or 1? Yes or No? Either you are with us or against us? And, in this half-baked map debacle, Apple's offer to either their users or Google is: Our way or the highway?
I am not sure how many Apple's users will be turned off by this, perhaps not many, but the ones who are vocal about the map's shortcomings are probably the ones needing this feature the most. They might even start looking at alternatives. If Android and Google are not in their menu, Windows Phone 8 with Nokia's Navteq map technology built-in is an even better choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
When it is strategic that people change, you do not offer them two choices -- you offer them one.
[quote name="Ken_sanders_aia" For the record, Street View has NEVER been available on iOS devices... So how exactly did users 'become accustomed' to it? This amazing piece of misinformation continues to be propogated by blogs, rumor sites and the mainstream media... Does anybody bother to check facts anymore?[/quote]
For the record, you don't know what you are talking about. Here I sit in Norwich city centre with 'Streetview' in Google maps on the iPad...and the coffee is good. Drop a pin, click the lh orange icon >> street view....if available.
As Apple you buy a 3D mapping company. Your partner in mapping says screw you, adds 3D mapping, preempts your announcement as yet another screw you. Then yes, you are obligated to tell said partner that continuously screws you over to promptly piss off even it is a year early. Keep up the good fight Apple! Your maps is better in many ways and will be better in all that matter in due course. Keep hitting Google where it hurts (ad revenue).
This is exactly why in the near future Apple will be the absolute best mapping system. Vector graphics. I guarantee Google know this and are already hard at work copying the SAAB system Apple purchased.
I've seen you mention Apple using vector graphics for their mapping a couple of times as tho it's unique. It's not. I'm guessing that you aren't aware that Google Maps for Android has been doing the same for quite awhile, as does Navteq, Tomtom and others. The raster maps displayed on the iOS version of Google maps isn't what mobile Android owners see, and likely not what iOS users will either if/when Google releases a standalone app.
Wow. Wannabe armchair cartographers are out in full force today. I didn't realize there were so many people qualified to tell Apple what to do.
Maps works great for me. Google Maps had its hit-and-misses to this day but I don't put them over the fire pit. Streetview is nice, would be nice to have something similar to that in Apple's offerings but in the end, I don't need street view to get where I'm going.
If I were paying for maps, I would probably raise a stink. However, since both are FREE services, I can't necessarily whine about it like you guys are. I have better things to do. So should you.
That's true.
I liked Google Maps.... but I had to buy Motion X to provide turn-by-turn navigation.
Some people forget that Google Maps on the iPhone were not all things to all people...
I've seen you mention Apple using vector graphics for their mapping a couple of times as tho it's unique. It's not. I'm guessing that you aren't aware that Google Maps for Android has been doing the same for quite awhile, as does Navteq, Tomtom and others. The raster maps displayed on the iOS version of Google maps isn't what mobile Android owners see, and likely not what iOS users will either if/when Google releases a standalone app.
So, see, even GG admits that Google was dumbing down the map experience for iOS users.
I really don't understand why this gets so much attention.
Its one stinking application. To me its like meeting the most amazing, intelligent, beautiful woman in the world, but constantly complaining about some minor thing "but dude, she doesn't understand football.. I don't think this is gonna last"
If that's true who ever at Apple made the decision to swap the "old" maps app with the new one is even dumber than I thought.
Not if Apple's goal was to hit Google's ad revenue; Had they given them a year's notice before releasing the updated maps, Google might have upstaged them by releasing a native iOS Maps app simultaneously with the release of the new Apple Maps. Since Apple has approved other mapping applications, it would be difficult for them to reject Google Maps.
Remember, most people are going to use Apple Maps since it's there. Even some people who would go to Google Maps if there were a choice (and who prefer not to download the web app which is available) may stick with Apple Maps in the interim. And this way, by the time the native Google Maps is out, Apple will have had a few months to make subtle improvements to Apple Maps.
An educated customer does care about the platform that he or she buys into.
You can always return the iPhone and get an Android or Blackberry or Windows Phone device.
Good Luck,,,
Does that mean you'll pay me 900€ for an iPhone 4S, another 800€ for an iPad 3G, and whoever knows how much I've spent in accessories so far? Because Apple certainly won't!
Good decision by Apple. The less shit from GG on my iphone the better.
I have no trouble with the maps app, it's as functional as I ever need since I am very good at getting around anyways. I am not one of those dorks that have to stare at a screen pointing the direction everywhere I go. What the hell are these people on? Seriously, I really have a hard time understanding just how lost those people are. Its like they have never went anywhere in their lives without an arrow to point them along. Poor, lost people...
Have a nice day(if you can find the daylight), Randy the oriented 8^)
A logical reason for Google not to to be open to offering improved capabilities to the old Maps app would to be able to promote Android with a maps app that offered more than IOS.
I counter this with the fact that Google has made every other feature available on iOS for free, so the burden of proof is back at you. Show me strong evidence that Google refused or would refuse to agree with Apple if Apple actually paid them.
Also don't forget that Google is now in the handset business by way of Motorola. How better to promote your products than by crippling your competitors.
This is the same reason that Apple won't license all of their intellectual property. It's product differentiation. The second thing you need to consider, is why take any corporate executive at their word. Just because Schmidt said it doesn't make it a fact. The same could be said of Cook. It's business, sometimes you don't tell the public the complete truth.
Because there is no reason to believe he's lying. You're speculating on possibilities; I could speculate about all the reasons why Apple doesn't want to go with Google for political reasons either, and we wouldn't end anywhere. You have to show EVIDENCE that he's lying if you want to be taken seriously. because as far as I'm concerned, you're posting BULLSHIT.
Oh yeah, according to your statement, since I found a "logical reason to believe Google wouldn't be open to such a deal", the "burden of proof lies on your side" - sorry but it was your rule not mine.
Unfortunately your "logical reason" is a lot more complex than mine, so you still have burden of proof because you're the one making the charges. Go ahead fanboy and prove that Schmidt is lying, because your reasoning is based on that assumption.
Good decision by Apple. The less shit from GG on my iphone the better.
I have no trouble with the maps app, it's as functional as I ever need since I am very good at getting around anyways. I am not one of those dorks that have to stare at a screen pointing the direction everywhere I go. What the hell are these people on? Seriously, I really have a hard time understanding just how lost those people are. Its like they have never went anywhere in their lives without an arrow to point them along. Poor, lost people...
Have a nice day(if you can find the daylight), Randy the oriented 8^)
Having a hard time understanding things makes you a retard, not others dorks. Don't jump into conclusions about others while clearly stating that you don't understand them, because under your broad definition, disabled people are dorks.
The headline here should be [B]"Google loses a massive percentage of its mapping audience!"[/B] Google get four times as much revenue from iOS as their own OS have received a massive blow to their business model.
This report from Mac Rumors seems to sum the situation up nicely with out the histrionics and tabloid slant.
[I]"For its part, Apple apparently felt that the older Google Maps-powered Maps in iOS were falling behind Android — particularly since they didn't have access to turn-by-turn navigation, which Google has shipped on Android phones for several years. The Wall Street Journal reported in June that Google also wanted more prominent branding and the ability to add features like Latitude, and executives at the search giant were unhappy with Apple's renewal terms. But the existing deal between the two companies was still valid and didn't have any additional requirements, according to our sources — Apple decided to simply end it and ship the new maps with turn-by-turn."[/I] ...MacRumors
Google is a company, like any other company they're after money, and unlike Apple they aren't known for being platform-specific, so the burden of proof lies on your side because there is no logical reason to believe that Google wouldn't be open to such a deal. This is not to mention that Schmidt himself said he was willing to continue the partnership, which is infinitely more evidence than you have.
No, I don't have the burden of proof. Apple made a decision. Apple has a very talented management team and has shown a great deal of success and smart decisions for the past decade.
You disagree with them. You need to give some evidence backing your position other than "waaa, waaaa, waaaa. Apple is dumb".
So what's your evidence that your decision is smarter than theirs?
As Apple you buy a 3D mapping company. Your partner in mapping says screw you, adds 3D mapping, preempts your announcement as yet another screw you. Then yes, you are obligated to tell said partner that continuously screws you over to promptly piss off even it is a year early. Keep up the good fight Apple! Your maps is better in many ways and will be better in all that matter in due course. Keep hitting Google where it hurts (ad revenue).
Well said. Google has shown a willingness to make a crappy app for iOS. Apple desires for its users to have good apps.
I really don't understand why this gets so much attention.
Its one stinking application. To me its like meeting the most amazing, intelligent, beautiful woman in the world, but constantly complaining about some minor thing "but dude, she doesn't understand football.. I don't think this is gonna last"
Get over it. Give it time, it will fix itself.
Well, "she doesn't understand football" would be a plus in my book, but good analogy.
The headline here should be "Google loses a massive percentage of its mapping audience!" Google get four times as much revenue from iOS as their own OS have received a massive blow to their business model.
As always, there is a mass media out there that loves sensationalism. If the make the story about Apple, they get lots more hits than if they make it about Google. And the market doesn't seem to understand any of the important issues.
Its one stinking application. To me its like meeting the most amazing, intelligent, beautiful woman in the world, but constantly complaining about some minor thing "but dude, she doesn't understand football.. I don't think this is gonna last"
It's The One Stinking Application that makes me use smartphones. Without it, the entire smartphone is useless to me. It took me years before I began trusting Google Maps, I'm not going to trust anything else any sooner, especially something that can't even find my street that's perfectly charted on the map.
I started using GPSes when maps were considered luxury. In the beginning I only relied on coordinates to get where I wanted, so I'd visit a place once, save its coordinates on my device, and know where to go later if I needed to return. This was pretty good at the time because there really wasn't anything else; sometimes I would also print out local maps to help me navigate to the desired location along with the GPS.
At some point I found a travel agency called Expedia which had a very good interactive tiled map on their site, so I started to harvest their tiles and making my own maps to integrate with my personal GPS app. This marked the first time I had "free" (stolen) maps on a GPS device (a PDA with a compact flash RS-232 GPS). While I couldn't exactly perform searches on those maps because I did not have a database matching named locations on the map to strings, I could at least get rid of the paper maps for navigation purposes.
In 2006 I bought a Nokia N95, and that marked the first time I truly started to trust a GPS device because I could finally search for places directly on the phone and it would take me there. It allowed me to enjoy being in places where I did not know anyone or anything without concerning myself about getting lost. At around the same point I started using Google Maps on the web, which I found trustable too because most of the stuff I looked for was there.
In 2009 I upgraded to a Nokia N900, and while the Maps experience wasn't iPhone-quality, I was no longer required to wait 5 minutes for the GPS to learn its location as it would gather information from several sources, so it was a huge upgrade to me, as I could finally take the phone off my pocket and it would immediately zoom into my location without forcing me to stop. Meanwhile I was getting pretty envious of the people with iPhones due to Google Maps, because at that point I already trusted Google Maps a lot and really did want it on my phone; not only that but Google Maps on the iPhone was extremely fast, it was really an awesome experience, so finally I bought an iPhone 4S.
During all this time I've never been exposed to Android. Would have I been convinced to go the Android route had it happened? Maybe, maybe not; at the time I felt (and still feel) like buying a phone that looks like an iPhone but isn't an iPhone didn't make much sense, so I went with the brand that represented quality to me, and I do not regret that choice because I don't have hindsight bias. Knowing what I knew at the time, there was absolutely no reason for me not to choose Apple.
Searching for locations and having the phone trace either a car or walking route to them is still my primary use for the iPhone, it is the only reason why I use smartphones at all, and it is something that Apple has seriously crippled, not only because their maps have much less data, but because the search is completely broken in some places, essentially leaving me with what I had bcd when I stole maps from Expedia because that's as much as I can trust Apple's Maps at the moment.
I don't really care or see the usefulness in services like satellite view, street view, 3D view, flyover, transit, transportation, or voice directions. I can live perfectly without any of those features because I've never trusted them (transit, transportation) or found them useful (street view, 3D view, flyover, voice directions), but the core mapping and searching functionality is extremely important to me, and at the moment it is unnecessarily crippled for political reasons alone.
I don't HAVE to get it! I'm a FUCKING CUSTOMER! Only fanboys and apologists care about crap like that, I just want quality service, and this is not it!
It was known in advance that the old maps wasn't on iOS6, so you - as a customer - could have waited to upgrade or waited to buy a new iPhone.
So you made the wrong decision, as a customer.
If you care to understand Apples decision to develop and use its own maps app, you have to consider that Apples goal isn't to please you.
Apple has to balance short and long term customer satisfaction combined with all kinds of strategic moves to keep its competitors at bay.
So, some damage at the start of a new product launch, could mean a huge win in the long term.
This means probably losing some customers, like you, that they would have lost later on anyhow, but gaining millions of new customers with a more realistic viewpoint.
It's The One Stinking Application that makes me use smartphones. Without it, the entire smartphone is useless to me. It took me years before I began trusting Google Maps, I'm not going to trust anything else any sooner, especially something that can't even find my street that's perfectly charted on the map.
Then you screwed up. If the application is critical to you and nothing else matters, you should have tested all of the options (Mapquest, maps.google.com, iOS 5, iOS 6, Android, etc) thoroughly before making a decision. Since Google has made Google Maps better on Android than on iOS, if Maps is the only thing that matters to you, you should have bought an Android phone.
Just stop pretending that everyone else is like you or that Apple should have changed their business model to satisfy your unusual requirements.
It was known in advance that the old maps wasn't on iOS6, so you - as a customer - could have waited to upgrade or waited to buy a new iPhone.
So you made the wrong decision, as a customer.
What makes you think I made a decision at all? I'm still running iOS 5.1.1 everywhere! That, however, doesn't mean I shouldn't complain, because iOS 5.1.1 is no longer supported and there are known serious security holes in it (as well as in iOS 6) that will never be fixed. As a customer, that's all I care about. I don't give a flying shit about Apple's inner or outer struggles with the world; they have the money, they could have dealt with it in a way that didn't affect my experience or didn't force me to stick to a firmware that will never receive any updates.
Comments
Street view is still available in iOS6 I have it on my phone and Ipad 'Live street view' works better than the old maps ever did
No, actually there are always at least two choices in any situations. 0 or 1? Yes or No? Either you are with us or against us? And, in this half-baked map debacle, Apple's offer to either their users or Google is: Our way or the highway?
I am not sure how many Apple's users will be turned off by this, perhaps not many, but the ones who are vocal about the map's shortcomings are probably the ones needing this feature the most. They might even start looking at alternatives. If Android and Google are not in their menu, Windows Phone 8 with Nokia's Navteq map technology built-in is an even better choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
When it is strategic that people change, you do not offer them two choices -- you offer them one.
For the record, Street View has NEVER been available on iOS devices... So how exactly did users 'become accustomed' to it?
This amazing piece of misinformation continues to be propogated by blogs, rumor sites and the mainstream media... Does anybody bother to check facts anymore?[/quote]
For the record, you don't know what you are talking about.
Here I sit in Norwich city centre with 'Streetview' in Google maps on the iPad...and the coffee is good.
Drop a pin, click the lh orange icon >> street view....if available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
This is exactly why in the near future Apple will be the absolute best mapping system. Vector graphics. I guarantee Google know this and are already hard at work copying the SAAB system Apple purchased.
I've seen you mention Apple using vector graphics for their mapping a couple of times as tho it's unique. It's not. I'm guessing that you aren't aware that Google Maps for Android has been doing the same for quite awhile, as does Navteq, Tomtom and others. The raster maps displayed on the iOS version of Google maps isn't what mobile Android owners see, and likely not what iOS users will either if/when Google releases a standalone app.
That's true.
I liked Google Maps.... but I had to buy Motion X to provide turn-by-turn navigation.
Some people forget that Google Maps on the iPhone were not all things to all people...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I've seen you mention Apple using vector graphics for their mapping a couple of times as tho it's unique. It's not. I'm guessing that you aren't aware that Google Maps for Android has been doing the same for quite awhile, as does Navteq, Tomtom and others. The raster maps displayed on the iOS version of Google maps isn't what mobile Android owners see, and likely not what iOS users will either if/when Google releases a standalone app.
So, see, even GG admits that Google was dumbing down the map experience for iOS users.
Its one stinking application. To me its like meeting the most amazing, intelligent, beautiful woman in the world, but constantly complaining about some minor thing "but dude, she doesn't understand football.. I don't think this is gonna last"
Get over it. Give it time, it will fix itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stehsegler
If that's true who ever at Apple made the decision to swap the "old" maps app with the new one is even dumber than I thought.
Not if Apple's goal was to hit Google's ad revenue; Had they given them a year's notice before releasing the updated maps, Google might have upstaged them by releasing a native iOS Maps app simultaneously with the release of the new Apple Maps. Since Apple has approved other mapping applications, it would be difficult for them to reject Google Maps.
Remember, most people are going to use Apple Maps since it's there. Even some people who would go to Google Maps if there were a choice (and who prefer not to download the web app which is available) may stick with Apple Maps in the interim. And this way, by the time the native Google Maps is out, Apple will have had a few months to make subtle improvements to Apple Maps.
Does that mean you'll pay me 900€ for an iPhone 4S, another 800€ for an iPad 3G, and whoever knows how much I've spent in accessories so far? Because Apple certainly won't!
Good decision by Apple. The less shit from GG on my iphone the better.
I have no trouble with the maps app, it's as functional as I ever need since I am very good at getting around anyways. I am not one of those dorks that have to stare at a screen pointing the direction everywhere I go. What the hell are these people on? Seriously, I really have a hard time understanding just how lost those people are. Its like they have never went anywhere in their lives without an arrow to point them along. Poor, lost people...
Have a nice day(if you can find the daylight), Randy the oriented 8^)
I counter this with the fact that Google has made every other feature available on iOS for free, so the burden of proof is back at you. Show me strong evidence that Google refused or would refuse to agree with Apple if Apple actually paid them.
They already benefit from that in iOS.
Baseless speculation.
Because there is no reason to believe he's lying. You're speculating on possibilities; I could speculate about all the reasons why Apple doesn't want to go with Google for political reasons either, and we wouldn't end anywhere. You have to show EVIDENCE that he's lying if you want to be taken seriously. because as far as I'm concerned, you're posting BULLSHIT.
Unfortunately your "logical reason" is a lot more complex than mine, so you still have burden of proof because you're the one making the charges. Go ahead fanboy and prove that Schmidt is lying, because your reasoning is based on that assumption.
Having a hard time understanding things makes you a retard, not others dorks. Don't jump into conclusions about others while clearly stating that you don't understand them, because under your broad definition, disabled people are dorks.
[I]"For its part, Apple apparently felt that the older Google Maps-powered Maps in iOS were falling behind Android — particularly since they didn't have access to turn-by-turn navigation, which Google has shipped on Android phones for several years. The Wall Street Journal reported in June that Google also wanted more prominent branding and the ability to add features like Latitude, and executives at the search giant were unhappy with Apple's renewal terms. But the existing deal between the two companies was still valid and didn't have any additional requirements, according to our sources — Apple decided to simply end it and ship the new maps with turn-by-turn."[/I] ...MacRumors
No, I don't have the burden of proof. Apple made a decision. Apple has a very talented management team and has shown a great deal of success and smart decisions for the past decade.
You disagree with them. You need to give some evidence backing your position other than "waaa, waaaa, waaaa. Apple is dumb".
So what's your evidence that your decision is smarter than theirs?
Well said. Google has shown a willingness to make a crappy app for iOS. Apple desires for its users to have good apps.
Well, "she doesn't understand football" would be a plus in my book, but good analogy.
As always, there is a mass media out there that loves sensationalism. If the make the story about Apple, they get lots more hits than if they make it about Google. And the market doesn't seem to understand any of the important issues.
It's The One Stinking Application that makes me use smartphones. Without it, the entire smartphone is useless to me. It took me years before I began trusting Google Maps, I'm not going to trust anything else any sooner, especially something that can't even find my street that's perfectly charted on the map.
I started using GPSes when maps were considered luxury. In the beginning I only relied on coordinates to get where I wanted, so I'd visit a place once, save its coordinates on my device, and know where to go later if I needed to return. This was pretty good at the time because there really wasn't anything else; sometimes I would also print out local maps to help me navigate to the desired location along with the GPS.
At some point I found a travel agency called Expedia which had a very good interactive tiled map on their site, so I started to harvest their tiles and making my own maps to integrate with my personal GPS app. This marked the first time I had "free" (stolen) maps on a GPS device (a PDA with a compact flash RS-232 GPS). While I couldn't exactly perform searches on those maps because I did not have a database matching named locations on the map to strings, I could at least get rid of the paper maps for navigation purposes.
In 2006 I bought a Nokia N95, and that marked the first time I truly started to trust a GPS device because I could finally search for places directly on the phone and it would take me there. It allowed me to enjoy being in places where I did not know anyone or anything without concerning myself about getting lost. At around the same point I started using Google Maps on the web, which I found trustable too because most of the stuff I looked for was there.
In 2009 I upgraded to a Nokia N900, and while the Maps experience wasn't iPhone-quality, I was no longer required to wait 5 minutes for the GPS to learn its location as it would gather information from several sources, so it was a huge upgrade to me, as I could finally take the phone off my pocket and it would immediately zoom into my location without forcing me to stop. Meanwhile I was getting pretty envious of the people with iPhones due to Google Maps, because at that point I already trusted Google Maps a lot and really did want it on my phone; not only that but Google Maps on the iPhone was extremely fast, it was really an awesome experience, so finally I bought an iPhone 4S.
During all this time I've never been exposed to Android. Would have I been convinced to go the Android route had it happened? Maybe, maybe not; at the time I felt (and still feel) like buying a phone that looks like an iPhone but isn't an iPhone didn't make much sense, so I went with the brand that represented quality to me, and I do not regret that choice because I don't have hindsight bias. Knowing what I knew at the time, there was absolutely no reason for me not to choose Apple.
Searching for locations and having the phone trace either a car or walking route to them is still my primary use for the iPhone, it is the only reason why I use smartphones at all, and it is something that Apple has seriously crippled, not only because their maps have much less data, but because the search is completely broken in some places, essentially leaving me with what I had bcd when I stole maps from Expedia because that's as much as I can trust Apple's Maps at the moment.
I don't really care or see the usefulness in services like satellite view, street view, 3D view, flyover, transit, transportation, or voice directions. I can live perfectly without any of those features because I've never trusted them (transit, transportation) or found them useful (street view, 3D view, flyover, voice directions), but the core mapping and searching functionality is extremely important to me, and at the moment it is unnecessarily crippled for political reasons alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
I don't HAVE to get it! I'm a FUCKING CUSTOMER! Only fanboys and apologists care about crap like that, I just want quality service, and this is not it!
It was known in advance that the old maps wasn't on iOS6, so you - as a customer - could have waited to upgrade or waited to buy a new iPhone.
So you made the wrong decision, as a customer.
If you care to understand Apples decision to develop and use its own maps app, you have to consider that Apples goal isn't to please you.
Apple has to balance short and long term customer satisfaction combined with all kinds of strategic moves to keep its competitors at bay.
So, some damage at the start of a new product launch, could mean a huge win in the long term.
This means probably losing some customers, like you, that they would have lost later on anyhow, but gaining millions of new customers with a more realistic viewpoint.
J.
Then you screwed up. If the application is critical to you and nothing else matters, you should have tested all of the options (Mapquest, maps.google.com, iOS 5, iOS 6, Android, etc) thoroughly before making a decision. Since Google has made Google Maps better on Android than on iOS, if Maps is the only thing that matters to you, you should have bought an Android phone.
Just stop pretending that everyone else is like you or that Apple should have changed their business model to satisfy your unusual requirements.
What makes you think I made a decision at all? I'm still running iOS 5.1.1 everywhere! That, however, doesn't mean I shouldn't complain, because iOS 5.1.1 is no longer supported and there are known serious security holes in it (as well as in iOS 6) that will never be fixed. As a customer, that's all I care about. I don't give a flying shit about Apple's inner or outer struggles with the world; they have the money, they could have dealt with it in a way that didn't affect my experience or didn't force me to stick to a firmware that will never receive any updates.