Can you please name a single retail store that will let me take several phones for a test drive and return them if I'm not satisfied with their quality?
I guess I forgot to consider that someone with your attitude wouldn't have any friends who would let them look at their phones. :-/
How would I test an Android device considering that I don't have access to them? I did test the iPhone because I had several people with access to it, and it did what I wanted; the extra features on Android don't matter to me, so even if an Android phone was available for me to test at the time I would have likely made the same choice.
But you said that the ONLY reason you used a smartphone was for Maps. Since the Google Maps program on Android is better than on iOS (which is part of the reason Apple developed their own), a rational person would be using an Android phone.
That leads us to one of the following conclusions:
1. You're not a rational person
2. You're lying.
Frankly, I consider the second to be more likely - especially since in another post you said that you are an iOS developer. So the only thing you use a smartphone for is Mapping, but you're an iOS developer? Clearly, your testimony can not be considered to be truthful.
As someone who works extensively in the GIS world, people pay big. If you're a small, independent store that just wants to show where a couple of locations are and your website doesn't get much traffic, that's free. If you require a lot of traffic, or your applications is outside to scope of what is available for free (legally), you will have to pay to use Google, Bing, or Yahoo Maps. We're a relatively small company, but even for our somewhat modest needs, we have to pay Bing/Microsoft. We'd have to pay Google as well.
For starters, I asked for a citation (you're replying with speculation, which I can do, too), and secondly Apple isn't gathering or processing that data, they're displaying it to users in a convenient way, just like Google does through the browser. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Google would charge Apple for a service that they provide for free, quite the opposite actually, as Google regards users as assets to their advertisement core business, rather than clients.
Can you please name a single retail store that will let me take several phones for a test drive and return them if I'm not satisfied with their quality? How would I test an Android device considering that I don't have access to them? I did test the iPhone because I had several people with access to it, and it did what I wanted; the extra features on Android don't matter to me, so even if an Android phone was available for me to test at the time I would have likely made the same choice.
Most major carriers, at least here in the US, allow you 15 or 30 days to try out your phone and return it for a different model. I know AT&T does this as I've done it in the past. They may not let you take out "several" at a time (unless you register for multiple phone numbers), but you can definitely test out an Android phone if you'd like. But I'm sure there will be some parts of that that you dislike as well. No phone, no company is perfect, but you need to get the one that is closest to perfect for you.
Notice the terms. Now, unless you think that the sum total of all iOS devices registers fewer than 2,500 hits to Google Maps per day, Apple is paying for a license. Period.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Google would charge Apple for a service that they provide for free…
Please don't be in business… please don't be in business… please don't be in business…
But you said that the ONLY reason you used a smartphone was for Maps. Since the Google Maps program on Android is better than on iOS (which is part of the reason Apple developed their own), a rational person would be using an Android phone.
That leads us to one of the following conclusions:
1. You're not a rational person
2. You're lying.
In one hand I had a device that I fully tested; in the other hand I had plenty of devices that I had no access to in order to test, so naturally I chose the device that I was certain to have all the functionality that I wanted. What is there so irrational about it? I'm not gullible, you telling me that device A does more than device B does not necessarily make it true; some people value things that others don't give a shit a bout, and this thread shows exactly that.
Frankly, I consider the second to be more likely - especially since in another post you said that you are an iOS developer. So the only thing you use a smartphone for is Mapping, but you're an iOS developer? Clearly, your testimony can not be considered to be truthful.
I became a developer because I bought the phone, not the other way around, and there's a pretty big difference between having a smartphone that I only use for development (I also have an iPad that I only use for that reason alone) and carrying a smartphone on the street which is useful to me as a GPS device.
If I'm the irrational party here, then how come you're the one making all the irrational assumptions? Who told you that I've never used iOS 6? I'm an iOS developer, I've used iOS 6 a lot longer than most people and downgraded back to 5.1.1 after 6 launched to the public because I don't need it on my devices anymore.
Right back at you! Stop speculating!
EDIT: Forgot to mention that iOS 6 Maps is also available in the Simulator, so even now I can still test it.
Your statements are contradictory and make no sense taken together. Frankly, I think you're full of it. I don't believe you are an iOS developer for whom the only reason you have a smartphone is for maps. That's just a ridiculous combination of statements. There's no need to speculate, you are obviously trying to cover your inconsistent statements that show you are are just making stuff up as you go along. That's the thing when you aren't being candid, it's so easy to trip yourself up and hard to keep track of everything you've said.
Sorry, your credibility here is shot. Time to find a new site to spew your venom on.
Am I the only one who things the media is over-dramatizing the whole maps thing? [...]
It's not the media. It's us, Apple users. I'll be very happy to switch to IOS Maps, because Apple products are always higher quality than the competitors, but I'll do it when it's ready. In the meantime, don't force us to travel back in time losing the features we were used to, specially when you could very easily keep Google Maps while you were polishing IOS Maps. On every forums I visit, I don't see the media over-dramatizing, I just see Apple users who disagree with recent Apple policies.
Your statements are contradictory and make no sense taken together. Frankly, I think you're full of it. I don't believe you are an iOS developer for whom the only reason you have a smartphone is for maps. That's just a ridiculous combination of statements. There's no need to speculate, you are obviously trying to cover your inconsistent statements that show you are are just making stuff up as you go along. That's the thing when you aren't being candid, it's so easy to trip yourself up and hard to keep track of everything you've said.
Sorry, your credibility here is shot. Time to find a new site to spew your venom on.
They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
What makes you think I made a decision at all? I'm still running iOS 5.1.1 everywhere! That, however, doesn't mean I shouldn't complain, because iOS 5.1.1 is no longer supported and there are known serious security holes in it (as well as in iOS 6) that will never be fixed. As a customer, that's all I care about. I don't give a flying shit about Apple's inner or outer struggles with the world; they have the money, they could have dealt with it in a way that didn't affect my experience or didn't force me to stick to a firmware that will never receive any updates.
You seem to divert the discussion ...
But never mind: I expect Apple to release security updates for older versions of iOS, like they do for OS X.
You still don't seem to understand the point I made in my previous post: it's not about you, it's about Apple and all it's customers now and in the future.
From the tenor of the paraphrased remarks, I would guess that the sources were closer to Google than Apple. My suspicion is that Apple receive information indicating that Google Maps for iOS was going to continue lacking feature compatibility with Google for Android, and thus Apple elected to cease supporting imminent mediocrity.
Cheers
And replace it (for the next year) with some even worse? That makes a great deal of sense. Google's "mediocrity" vs Our Own "worse than mediocrity" Sheesh.
Sorry, putting aside all the back and forth that goes on here, I don't see how anyone can say this was a wise decision.
What makes you think I made a decision at all? I'm still running iOS 5.1.1 everywhere! That, however, doesn't mean I shouldn't complain, because iOS 5.1.1 is no longer supported and there are known serious security holes in it (as well as in iOS 6) that will never be fixed. As a customer, that's all I care about. I don't give a flying shit about Apple's inner or outer struggles with the world; they have the money, they could have dealt with it in a way that didn't affect my experience or didn't force me to stick to a firmware that will never receive any updates.
You seem to divert the discussion ...
But never mind: I expect Apple to release security updates for older versions of iOS, like they do for OS X.
You still don't seem to understand the point I made in my previous post: it's not about you, it's about Apple and all it's customers now and in the future.
J.
Apple has never released updates to previous versions of iOS, as far as I know, so they are unlikely to start doing that now (the difference is that the major upgrades are free whereas OS X's are paid).
My argument was from the perspective of the customer. I do not have to care about Apple's internal or external struggles; they're sacrificing my experience as a customer for what to me are petty reasons, and they don't seem to care much about it either, otherwise they'd have made a public statement about what drove them to this decision.
They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
Sorry, still not buying your tale. I don't think anyone else is either at this point. Wish you better luck somewhere else with your Android phone.
And, by the way, your argument above, in your first sentence, depends on the Fallicist's Fallacy.
Ok, someone @ Apple made a bad decision (probably with TC's approval). So what. iphone5 still sells more than 4s in the first weekend. people still upgrading to iOS6. There was no effect as having a bad map app. Yes, people whine about it. But that doesn't affect anything. Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
Well, no. I simply accepted your statements as if they were true. That clearly was a mistake.
You said that the only thing you use a smartphone for is maps. Then you later said that you are an iOS developer (which presumably means that you use your phone at least for testing your own apps).
They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
Sorry, still not buying your tale. I don't think anyone else is either at this point. Wish you better luck somewhere else with your Android phone.
And, by the way, your argument above, in your first sentence, depends on the Fallicist's Fallacy.
You don't have to "buy into" anything I say because I've already defeated the whole argument earlier. Even if I was lying, the Maps app is available for testing in the iOS Smiluator, which is now available for everyone as part of Xcode 4.5 which has been released to public, so I'd never be required to use iOS 6 in my devices in order to test Maps. The whole claim that I'm talking about something that I don't know has been invalidated long ago, and you can't prove that I'm lying either.
You don't have to "buy into" anything I say because I've already defeated the whole argument earlier. Even if I was lying...
I think the only argument defeated here is yours, which has gone down in spectacular flames, after you lost track of what you had said, then waved your hands frantically to distract from your self-contradictory nonsense. And, shouldn't that be, "Even if I were lying..." if you haven't been? Oh, I get it.
Comments
I guess I forgot to consider that someone with your attitude wouldn't have any friends who would let them look at their phones. :-/
But you said that the ONLY reason you used a smartphone was for Maps. Since the Google Maps program on Android is better than on iOS (which is part of the reason Apple developed their own), a rational person would be using an Android phone.
That leads us to one of the following conclusions:
1. You're not a rational person
2. You're lying.
Frankly, I consider the second to be more likely - especially since in another post you said that you are an iOS developer. So the only thing you use a smartphone for is Mapping, but you're an iOS developer? Clearly, your testimony can not be considered to be truthful.
For starters, I asked for a citation (you're replying with speculation, which I can do, too), and secondly Apple isn't gathering or processing that data, they're displaying it to users in a convenient way, just like Google does through the browser. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Google would charge Apple for a service that they provide for free, quite the opposite actually, as Google regards users as assets to their advertisement core business, rather than clients.
Citation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Can you please name a single retail store that will let me take several phones for a test drive and return them if I'm not satisfied with their quality? How would I test an Android device considering that I don't have access to them? I did test the iPhone because I had several people with access to it, and it did what I wanted; the extra features on Android don't matter to me, so even if an Android phone was available for me to test at the time I would have likely made the same choice.
Most major carriers, at least here in the US, allow you 15 or 30 days to try out your phone and return it for a different model. I know AT&T does this as I've done it in the past. They may not let you take out "several" at a time (unless you register for multiple phone numbers), but you can definitely test out an Android phone if you'd like. But I'm sure there will be some parts of that that you dislike as well. No phone, no company is perfect, but you need to get the one that is closest to perfect for you.
Originally Posted by Vaelian
For starters, I asked for a citation… Citation?
HEY. LISTEN.
https://developers.google.com/maps/licensing
Notice the terms. Now, unless you think that the sum total of all iOS devices registers fewer than 2,500 hits to Google Maps per day, Apple is paying for a license. Period.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Google would charge Apple for a service that they provide for free…
Please don't be in business… please don't be in business… please don't be in business…
Yes, I choose my relationships based on people's cell phones.
In one hand I had a device that I fully tested; in the other hand I had plenty of devices that I had no access to in order to test, so naturally I chose the device that I was certain to have all the functionality that I wanted. What is there so irrational about it? I'm not gullible, you telling me that device A does more than device B does not necessarily make it true; some people value things that others don't give a shit a bout, and this thread shows exactly that.
I became a developer because I bought the phone, not the other way around, and there's a pretty big difference between having a smartphone that I only use for development (I also have an iPad that I only use for that reason alone) and carrying a smartphone on the street which is useful to me as a GPS device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
If I'm the irrational party here, then how come you're the one making all the irrational assumptions? Who told you that I've never used iOS 6? I'm an iOS developer, I've used iOS 6 a lot longer than most people and downgraded back to 5.1.1 after 6 launched to the public because I don't need it on my devices anymore.
Right back at you! Stop speculating!
EDIT: Forgot to mention that iOS 6 Maps is also available in the Simulator, so even now I can still test it.
Your statements are contradictory and make no sense taken together. Frankly, I think you're full of it. I don't believe you are an iOS developer for whom the only reason you have a smartphone is for maps. That's just a ridiculous combination of statements. There's no need to speculate, you are obviously trying to cover your inconsistent statements that show you are are just making stuff up as you go along. That's the thing when you aren't being candid, it's so easy to trip yourself up and hard to keep track of everything you've said.
Sorry, your credibility here is shot. Time to find a new site to spew your venom on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twosee
Am I the only one who things the media is over-dramatizing the whole maps thing? [...]
It's not the media. It's us, Apple users. I'll be very happy to switch to IOS Maps, because Apple products are always higher quality than the competitors, but I'll do it when it's ready. In the meantime, don't force us to travel back in time losing the features we were used to, specially when you could very easily keep Google Maps while you were polishing IOS Maps. On every forums I visit, I don't see the media over-dramatizing, I just see Apple users who disagree with recent Apple policies.
Originally Posted by ecs
On every forums I visit, I don't see the media over-dramatizing, I just see Apple users who disagree with recent Apple policies.
You don't visit many forums, then. And they're not all Apple users complaining.
They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
What makes you think I made a decision at all? I'm still running iOS 5.1.1 everywhere! That, however, doesn't mean I shouldn't complain, because iOS 5.1.1 is no longer supported and there are known serious security holes in it (as well as in iOS 6) that will never be fixed. As a customer, that's all I care about. I don't give a flying shit about Apple's inner or outer struggles with the world; they have the money, they could have dealt with it in a way that didn't affect my experience or didn't force me to stick to a firmware that will never receive any updates.
You seem to divert the discussion ...
But never mind: I expect Apple to release security updates for older versions of iOS, like they do for OS X.
You still don't seem to understand the point I made in my previous post: it's not about you, it's about Apple and all it's customers now and in the future.
J.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt
From the tenor of the paraphrased remarks, I would guess that the sources were closer to Google than Apple. My suspicion is that Apple receive information indicating that Google Maps for iOS was going to continue lacking feature compatibility with Google for Android, and thus Apple elected to cease supporting imminent mediocrity.
Cheers
And replace it (for the next year) with some even worse? That makes a great deal of sense. Google's "mediocrity" vs Our Own "worse than mediocrity" Sheesh.
Sorry, putting aside all the back and forth that goes on here, I don't see how anyone can say this was a wise decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You don't visit many forums, then. And they're not all Apple users complaining.
He never said ALL Apple users were complaining...those are your words, not his.
Apple has never released updates to previous versions of iOS, as far as I know, so they are unlikely to start doing that now (the difference is that the major upgrades are free whereas OS X's are paid).
My argument was from the perspective of the customer. I do not have to care about Apple's internal or external struggles; they're sacrificing my experience as a customer for what to me are petty reasons, and they don't seem to care much about it either, otherwise they'd have made a public statement about what drove them to this decision.
Originally Posted by lamewing
He never said ALL Apple users were complaining...
Nor did I. Speaking of my words, read them again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
Sorry, still not buying your tale. I don't think anyone else is either at this point. Wish you better luck somewhere else with your Android phone.
And, by the way, your argument above, in your first sentence, depends on the Fallicist's Fallacy.
Ok, someone @ Apple made a bad decision (probably with TC's approval). So what. iphone5 still sells more than 4s in the first weekend. people still upgrading to iOS6. There was no effect as having a bad map app. Yes, people whine about it. But that doesn't affect anything. Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
Originally Posted by ipen
Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
Nope. Try again.
Well, no. I simply accepted your statements as if they were true. That clearly was a mistake.
You said that the only thing you use a smartphone for is maps. Then you later said that you are an iOS developer (which presumably means that you use your phone at least for testing your own apps).
The two statements are not consistent.
You don't have to "buy into" anything I say because I've already defeated the whole argument earlier. Even if I was lying, the Maps app is available for testing in the iOS Smiluator, which is now available for everyone as part of Xcode 4.5 which has been released to public, so I'd never be required to use iOS 6 in my devices in order to test Maps. The whole claim that I'm talking about something that I don't know has been invalidated long ago, and you can't prove that I'm lying either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
You don't have to "buy into" anything I say because I've already defeated the whole argument earlier. Even if I was lying...
I think the only argument defeated here is yours, which has gone down in spectacular flames, after you lost track of what you had said, then waved your hands frantically to distract from your self-contradictory nonsense. And, shouldn't that be, "Even if I were lying..." if you haven't been? Oh, I get it.