My problem with maps isn't so much accuracy as the lack of quality satellite data in the UK. Given that Google doesn't have satellites and they just buy this stuff from other companies, I can't see why Apple doesn't have comprehensive satellite data. Maybe they ran into problems integrating it all. In my experience, all these mapping services, including Google Maps, are inaccurate when it comes to locating addresses, but Google Maps had quality satellite data and Street View so you can figure out what the marker hovering in the middle of nowhere is really referring to by exploring the local area. This, of course, is less than ideal but it beats having to actually go there, so it's useful. For me, comprehensive, high-quality satellite imagery would solve most of Apple's maps problems.
So this crowd sourced info is automatic? Is Apple keeping track of what parts of the world I am searching and where I am located all the time? Or is your description of crowd sourced the fact that there is a report a problem button. I would draw a distinction between simply using the Maps app and actively contributing to updating the data. If they are tracking me then that is going to be a security issue. I think they really need to define what they mean by "It gets better the more people use it".
As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.
So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.
I am sure if Apple wanted to get Google Maps to work with OS 6 they could have gotten that straight out before OS 6 was released. Please don't be so stupid. These CEO's have big ego's and they don't want to concede anything to each other. They complete in the marketplace and if Larry Page can make Tim Cook eat crow for a few weeks he will celebrate that victory in private. How do you think Google feels about Apple "stealing" Google mapping software engineers?
In fact a few days ago Larry Page indicated they could have resolved this before OS 6 was released, but Apple did not want to meet Google's terms of use so Apple balked. In the end its us the Apple the faithful customers who will suffer.
I'm stupid? Your grammar is ridiculous.
1. My point is that Google Maps DOES work in iOS 6. Via the browser. It looks identical to the Maps app from before.
2. If you think this is a pissing match only, and it's all about ego - then you're the stupid one. Follow the $$. When in doubt, always follow the $$.
3. Apple hasn't "stolen" engineers. Apple is hiring FORMER Google Map engineers. FORMER. That means they once worked for Google but no longer do, in case you're confused.
4. Larry Page hasn't comment on this, to my knowledge. I think you mean Eric Schmidt, when he commented about Apple parting ways and they "were shocked."
5. Those so-called "terms of use" you're referring to are Google branding, Google controlling the user experience, and Google harvesting the users data. None of which benefits YOU or more importantly, Apple.
Bottom line, Apple learned its lesson from the 90s. Don't let another company control your destiny.
Yeah! How dare Google release their maps in this condition! It should be absolutely perfect from the instant it launc—what's that? Yeah, I said Google. Uh huh? Oh, yes, don't you remember? Google Maps had these same problems when it was launched. How silly of you to forget. Ignore is probably more accurate.
I did forget. Thanks for the reminder! Not being sarcastic.
So it is like, the more people fix our maps the better it will become.
Have you never reported a Google map error? I have. And they fixed it. That is all Apple is saying, they will improve as errors are reported. Maps change frequently, businesses move, etc. Apple AND Google depend on users to report those errors.
This isn't new, my friend. NO company can do this alone, they depend on users to report issues.
Have you never reported a Google map error? I have. And they fixed it. That is all Apple is saying, they will improve as errors are reported. Maps change frequently, businesses move, etc. Apple AND Google depend on users to report those errors.
That's like starting a new Wikipedia that sucks, forcing people to use it, and telling them it will get better if they continue to use it when everyone can consult the original Wikipedia. I don't use Wikipedia to contribute to it, I use Wikipedia to gain a general understanding of things; I don't absolutely trust Wikipedia, but I hold it to a much higher standard than I would hold a newly formed concurrent crowdsourced encyclopedia. That is the problem with Maps, I don't trust Apple Maps, so I don't want to use it and I don't care about reporting issues about it when Google Maps has a much more complete database to which it is a lot more productive to contribute because having one complete database is better than having many incomplete ones.
Apple is becoming just like MS since they are rapidly gaining marketshare. It's all about PUSH THE UNFINISHED BUGGY PRODUCT OUT and we'll deal with it later. Shame shame Apple.
lol!
Just let us download the fully working version of Google Maps that we had from iOS 5....
The second post down is the most obvious and intuitive.
Apple had a year left to go on their license with Google Maps.
They knew their map app was not up to their usual standards.
Apple knows they have to offer competition in the App Store anyway.
They should have put Apple Maps on the Home page by default install of iOS 6 and removed Google Maps, as it did. And then make the old iOS 5 Google-based Maps app available for download via the App Store, just like they did with iBooks.
In a year, Google Maps would have gone away completely under iOS 7, or Apple could have at any time during the next year, pulled it from the App Store, and avoided this whole thing surrounding the introduction of iPhone 5.
It actually makes more sense as people would see the advantages of Apple's App with turn-by-turn directions and the better interface. Since many here are reporting Apple's Maps works perfectly for them, they would never download The Google version, and Apple would still have the growth they need. Still yet, many customers don't know the difference and haven't been following this in the media, would just use the Apple app by default, never realizing it had been switched.
For what many claim is the vocal minority, they would have been appeased by being able to download the Google App, which Google is going to make available in a couple of months anyway. Eventually, they would be dissatisfied with the limited features of that app as their friends and co-workers gloat about the superior features and turn-by-turn directions of Apples App. And lets face it, Google doesn't have a 10th the expertise of designing Apps on iOS, so their first attempt would have been lame anyway. By that time Apple's Maps would have improved substantially, and won over many of the old Google Maps users.This whole media frenzy would have been avoided, and Apple would have ultimately gotten what they wanted. Now, Google is going to bend over backwards to make sure their effort is as good as or better than Apple's. And the media has made customers who would have never been aware of the problem aware, and made the problem seem far worse than it is. cook's apology letter only feeds into it. The pooch has been thoroughly screwed.
In my mind I don't see this any differently than the Internet Explorer debacle where Microsoft tried to force their browser on their customers -- a move from which i don't think MS ever recovered. There are other Map apps on the Apple Store, and there appears to be no reason Apple couldn't have offered the old Maps app as well, except Apple wanted to stick it to Google and catch them off guard. And if Apple wants to play these kinds of corporate games, at the expense of its customers, then they get what they deserve. They gambled, but it didn't pay off this time. They are "big boys" and knew what risks they were running when they chose this course.
The best solution for me would be a choice in the maps app of the background data, like safari offers in search.
It is understandable how that choice would be the best short-term solution for some people like yourself.
Apparently, Google and Apple were unable to negotiate a "solution" acceptable to both parties to provide the services and data that Apple needs for a first-class iOS mapping feature.
Given that -- it appears that Apple took the appropriate action:
build its own mapping solution
negotiate better agreements with alternate suppliers of map data and services
incorporate the means to flesh out Apple's data and services
So, for some loyal Apple customers this an inconvenience and a step backwards -- temporary, but nonetheless a step backwards.
With iOS 6 maps, Apple now has under its control what it needs to offer the best mapping solution in the [reasonable] near future.
As Tim stated in his letter:
Quote:
There are already more than 100 million iOS devices using the new Apple Maps, with more and more joining us every day. In just over a week, iOS users with the new Maps have already searched for nearly half a billion locations.
These are pretty big numbers
a "half a billion" search requests in 1+ weeks...
a "half a billion" search requests that returned some, valid, invalid or no map data...
<< "half a billion" search requests that have been follow-ons to unsatisfactory searches...
Now, we know Apple is logging all these searches! The search data, return data and search patterns (follow-on searches) can be analyzed by computer to quickly focus on problem areas that need attention, e.g.:
"Where were you when you made the search?"
"Why was no Address found?"
"Why did you make an additional search with slightly modified search terms?"
"Why did you make a right turn followed by a U-tern when I told you to make a left turn?"
"What problems were reported?"
By having access to all of the data, Apple now has the ability and opportunity to refine the maps experience.
Apple never had that the ability and opportunity with Google and iOS5 maps.
Shunting, those 2 billion searches (per month) back to Google would defeat the opportunity for Apple to build a superior maps experience.
I suspect that we are in for a bit of a bumpy ride for a while -- but in the end, we will be rewarded for our patience and inconvenience...
Some five years into the past, Apple signed a contract with the devil's second-in-command, ...who happened to be sitting on Apple's Board at the time. And now the devil itself comes in to claim its dues.
A dent of in a reputation, ...freedom as a prey.
Fair deal for everybody, lest you were second-in-command...for you alone bear the weight of eternity...
Yesterday, I drove from Orange County to Santa Monica with iOS 6 Maps and my iPhone locked (listening to Siri for turn-by-turn directions). My iPhone 4S was fully-charged before I left and by the time I reached my destination I was down to 35% battery life. I probably spent two hours driving factoring in morning traffic. It got me wondering how practical turn-by-turn is over 3G -- or at least with Apple's current implementation.
Maybe when I use turn-by-turn more often I will notice this to be an anomaly, but I did find it concerning.
Apple is becoming just like MS since they are rapidly gaining marketshare. It's all about PUSH THE UNFINISHED BUGGY PRODUCT OUT and we'll deal with it later. Shame shame Apple.
Funny how that's just not the case at all, you know? And we're supposed to sit idly by and let people actually post this drivel.
Using 3rd Party Apps is totally counter intuitive to the Apple method of design (meaning the one-stop-shop). And I resent the suggestion to use existing 3rd part Apps as a solution to something that wasn't a problem until this new App was released. If you want us to use 3rd party transit Apps, allow the Dev's to design "Plug-Ins" to the iOS Maps Apps, not the other way around. If I have to switch to a separate App, It's a FAIL in my book and totally pointless.
That actually is how it should work, at least according to the WWDC videos I saw. Install an app and the app's transit directions can appear in it's app, or when you are in the area, the Apple maps app. Obviously this would mean the app would cost, as they can't advertise in Apple's app. And they need to use the proper API.
Notice that while Tim Cook signed his name to his letter, the Retail VP John Browett has yet to put his name on any public statement regarding his decisions affecting Apple Retail Stores.
So this crowd sourced info is automatic? Is Apple keeping track of what parts of the world I am searching and where I am located all the time? Or is your description of crowd sourced the fact that there is a report a problem button. I would draw a distinction between simply using the Maps app and actively contributing to updating the data. If they are tracking me then that is going to be a security issue. I think they really need to define what they mean by "It gets better the more people use it".
As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.
So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.
Well in either case the aerial imagery will not improve unless Apple leases better data. I would suggest buying Geo Eye. Current market cap GEOY 593.49M. Then TomTom with a current market cap of 1.05B. Also Yelp which recently rejected a $500 M offer from Google. If Apple bought those companies they would truly have their own data and a platform from which they could continue to grow. The current collection of third party vendors is not sustainable in my opinion. I think we will see a repeat of this same scenario a couple years from now when Apple can no longer depend on its providers.
Comments
My problem with maps isn't so much accuracy as the lack of quality satellite data in the UK. Given that Google doesn't have satellites and they just buy this stuff from other companies, I can't see why Apple doesn't have comprehensive satellite data. Maybe they ran into problems integrating it all. In my experience, all these mapping services, including Google Maps, are inaccurate when it comes to locating addresses, but Google Maps had quality satellite data and Street View so you can figure out what the marker hovering in the middle of nowhere is really referring to by exploring the local area. This, of course, is less than ideal but it beats having to actually go there, so it's useful. For me, comprehensive, high-quality satellite imagery would solve most of Apple's maps problems.
As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.
So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.
Originally Posted by antkm1
That is a fantastic video!
This needs to be re-posted to everyone until the cows come home because I think even Cook needs a refresher.
Originally Posted by Mac_128
THANK YOU!!
How do the contents of this video differ from what Apple is doing?
Originally Posted by gwmac
Will using maps really help improve it? I am a little skeptical of that.
That's how Google Maps got better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123
I am sure if Apple wanted to get Google Maps to work with OS 6 they could have gotten that straight out before OS 6 was released. Please don't be so stupid. These CEO's have big ego's and they don't want to concede anything to each other. They complete in the marketplace and if Larry Page can make Tim Cook eat crow for a few weeks he will celebrate that victory in private. How do you think Google feels about Apple "stealing" Google mapping software engineers?
In fact a few days ago Larry Page indicated they could have resolved this before OS 6 was released, but Apple did not want to meet Google's terms of use so Apple balked. In the end its us the Apple the faithful customers who will suffer.
I'm stupid? Your grammar is ridiculous.
1. My point is that Google Maps DOES work in iOS 6. Via the browser. It looks identical to the Maps app from before.
2. If you think this is a pissing match only, and it's all about ego - then you're the stupid one. Follow the $$. When in doubt, always follow the $$.
3. Apple hasn't "stolen" engineers. Apple is hiring FORMER Google Map engineers. FORMER. That means they once worked for Google but no longer do, in case you're confused.
4. Larry Page hasn't comment on this, to my knowledge. I think you mean Eric Schmidt, when he commented about Apple parting ways and they "were shocked."
5. Those so-called "terms of use" you're referring to are Google branding, Google controlling the user experience, and Google harvesting the users data. None of which benefits YOU or more importantly, Apple.
Bottom line, Apple learned its lesson from the 90s. Don't let another company control your destiny.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
So it is like, the more people fix our maps the better it will become.
Have you never reported a Google map error? I have. And they fixed it. That is all Apple is saying, they will improve as errors are reported. Maps change frequently, businesses move, etc. Apple AND Google depend on users to report those errors.
This isn't new, my friend. NO company can do this alone, they depend on users to report issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How do the contents of this video differ from what Apple is doing?
That's how Google Maps got better
Nobody seems to realize or remember this ^^^
Originally Posted by allenbf
NO company can do this alone, they depend on users to report issues.
No. Wrong. Apple must be perfect. Immediately. And on their own.
????
That's like starting a new Wikipedia that sucks, forcing people to use it, and telling them it will get better if they continue to use it when everyone can consult the original Wikipedia. I don't use Wikipedia to contribute to it, I use Wikipedia to gain a general understanding of things; I don't absolutely trust Wikipedia, but I hold it to a much higher standard than I would hold a newly formed concurrent crowdsourced encyclopedia. That is the problem with Maps, I don't trust Apple Maps, so I don't want to use it and I don't care about reporting issues about it when Google Maps has a much more complete database to which it is a lot more productive to contribute because having one complete database is better than having many incomplete ones.
Apple had a year left to go on their license with Google Maps.
They knew their map app was not up to their usual standards.
Apple knows they have to offer competition in the App Store anyway.
They should have put Apple Maps on the Home page by default install of iOS 6 and removed Google Maps, as it did. And then make the old iOS 5 Google-based Maps app available for download via the App Store, just like they did with iBooks.
In a year, Google Maps would have gone away completely under iOS 7, or Apple could have at any time during the next year, pulled it from the App Store, and avoided this whole thing surrounding the introduction of iPhone 5.
It actually makes more sense as people would see the advantages of Apple's App with turn-by-turn directions and the better interface. Since many here are reporting Apple's Maps works perfectly for them, they would never download The Google version, and Apple would still have the growth they need. Still yet, many customers don't know the difference and haven't been following this in the media, would just use the Apple app by default, never realizing it had been switched.
For what many claim is the vocal minority, they would have been appeased by being able to download the Google App, which Google is going to make available in a couple of months anyway. Eventually, they would be dissatisfied with the limited features of that app as their friends and co-workers gloat about the superior features and turn-by-turn directions of Apples App. And lets face it, Google doesn't have a 10th the expertise of designing Apps on iOS, so their first attempt would have been lame anyway. By that time Apple's Maps would have improved substantially, and won over many of the old Google Maps users.This whole media frenzy would have been avoided, and Apple would have ultimately gotten what they wanted. Now, Google is going to bend over backwards to make sure their effort is as good as or better than Apple's. And the media has made customers who would have never been aware of the problem aware, and made the problem seem far worse than it is. cook's apology letter only feeds into it. The pooch has been thoroughly screwed.
In my mind I don't see this any differently than the Internet Explorer debacle where Microsoft tried to force their browser on their customers -- a move from which i don't think MS ever recovered. There are other Map apps on the Apple Store, and there appears to be no reason Apple couldn't have offered the old Maps app as well, except Apple wanted to stick it to Google and catch them off guard. And if Apple wants to play these kinds of corporate games, at the expense of its customers, then they get what they deserve. They gambled, but it didn't pay off this time. They are "big boys" and knew what risks they were running when they chose this course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
The best solution for me would be a choice in the maps app of the background data, like safari offers in search.
It is understandable how that choice would be the best short-term solution for some people like yourself.
Apparently, Google and Apple were unable to negotiate a "solution" acceptable to both parties to provide the services and data that Apple needs for a first-class iOS mapping feature.
Given that -- it appears that Apple took the appropriate action:
build its own mapping solution
negotiate better agreements with alternate suppliers of map data and services
incorporate the means to flesh out Apple's data and services
So, for some loyal Apple customers this an inconvenience and a step backwards -- temporary, but nonetheless a step backwards.
With iOS 6 maps, Apple now has under its control what it needs to offer the best mapping solution in the [reasonable] near future.
As Tim stated in his letter:
Quote:
There are already more than 100 million iOS devices using the new Apple Maps, with more and more joining us every day. In just over a week, iOS users with the new Maps have already searched for nearly half a billion locations.
These are pretty big numbers
a "half a billion" search requests in 1+ weeks...
a "half a billion" search requests that returned some, valid, invalid or no map data...
<< "half a billion" search requests that have been follow-ons to unsatisfactory searches...
Now, we know Apple is logging all these searches! The search data, return data and search patterns (follow-on searches) can be analyzed by computer to quickly focus on problem areas that need attention, e.g.:
"Where were you when you made the search?"
"Why was no Address found?"
"Why did you make an additional search with slightly modified search terms?"
"Why did you make a right turn followed by a U-tern when I told you to make a left turn?"
"What problems were reported?"
By having access to all of the data, Apple now has the ability and opportunity to refine the maps experience.
Apple never had that the ability and opportunity with Google and iOS5 maps.
Shunting, those 2 billion searches (per month) back to Google would defeat the opportunity for Apple to build a superior maps experience.
I suspect that we are in for a bit of a bumpy ride for a while -- but in the end, we will be rewarded for our patience and inconvenience...
It's an investment!
A dent of in a reputation, ...freedom as a prey.
Fair deal for everybody, lest you were second-in-command...for you alone bear the weight of eternity...
Yesterday, I drove from Orange County to Santa Monica with iOS 6 Maps and my iPhone locked (listening to Siri for turn-by-turn directions). My iPhone 4S was fully-charged before I left and by the time I reached my destination I was down to 35% battery life. I probably spent two hours driving factoring in morning traffic. It got me wondering how practical turn-by-turn is over 3G -- or at least with Apple's current implementation.
Maybe when I use turn-by-turn more often I will notice this to be an anomaly, but I did find it concerning.
Originally Posted by tdg911
Apple is becoming just like MS since they are rapidly gaining marketshare. It's all about PUSH THE UNFINISHED BUGGY PRODUCT OUT and we'll deal with it later. Shame shame Apple.
Funny how that's just not the case at all, you know? And we're supposed to sit idly by and let people actually post this drivel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
Using 3rd Party Apps is totally counter intuitive to the Apple method of design (meaning the one-stop-shop). And I resent the suggestion to use existing 3rd part Apps as a solution to something that wasn't a problem until this new App was released. If you want us to use 3rd party transit Apps, allow the Dev's to design "Plug-Ins" to the iOS Maps Apps, not the other way around. If I have to switch to a separate App, It's a FAIL in my book and totally pointless.
That actually is how it should work, at least according to the WWDC videos I saw. Install an app and the app's transit directions can appear in it's app, or when you are in the area, the Apple maps app. Obviously this would mean the app would cost, as they can't advertise in Apple's app. And they need to use the proper API.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
So this crowd sourced info is automatic? Is Apple keeping track of what parts of the world I am searching and where I am located all the time? Or is your description of crowd sourced the fact that there is a report a problem button. I would draw a distinction between simply using the Maps app and actively contributing to updating the data. If they are tracking me then that is going to be a security issue. I think they really need to define what they mean by "It gets better the more people use it".
As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.
So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.
Well in either case the aerial imagery will not improve unless Apple leases better data. I would suggest buying Geo Eye. Current market cap GEOY 593.49M. Then TomTom with a current market cap of 1.05B. Also Yelp which recently rejected a $500 M offer from Google. If Apple bought those companies they would truly have their own data and a platform from which they could continue to grow. The current collection of third party vendors is not sustainable in my opinion. I think we will see a repeat of this same scenario a couple years from now when Apple can no longer depend on its providers.