NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple

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  • Reply 341 of 454
    dsk wrote: »
    Could you please post images that illustrate the point you're trying to make?
    Using two different iPads I tried both the Google maps app and the Apple maps app for Skiathos.
    As expected the satellite views were similar although Google maps showed a few more hotels.
    Then I tried the booking.com app. This is a specialty app for booking hotels in various locations.
    As expected, this app showed a lot more hotels but had a similar satellite view to the other apps. I could not easily determine who supplied the map and satellite data.
    Okay, here's the deal…. There are about 100 million iPad in use. The iPad is an excellent vehicle for hotel booking and vacation planning – especially with apps like the booking.com, that you suggested. The iPad 3, with retina display, is especially well-suited to this type of application.
    With Apples MapKit API, it is easy for a developer to write an application where pins are dropped and points of interest information is displayed ala booking.com. Apple supplies the map and the developer supplies the longitude, latitude and POI information.
    Before iOS 6, all the backend map data was supplied by Google. Now all of backend map data is supplied by Apple and various third-party services.
    I suspect that the map app developers will adjust their applications, as necessary, to use the new map data. And, I expect that they will be quite vocal reporting any deficiencies or map problems.
    Long story, short... I expect that, within a few weeks, most of these third-party specialty map apps will be using the new Apple maps app backend... And browbeating Apple to supply 3-D flyover data for the areas that they service.

    Hi, this exact thing is what bothers me. Developers are tied to default OS mapping application. At the moment i see ipad exactly like that.
    Excellent vehicle with mediocre audio system. And the problem is if i keep speaking metaphorically, i can change the audio unit but crappy speakers are built in and irreplaceable. On ipad i can have third party app for maps, but any other app that uses maps will show only apple maps inside. It is not so problematic with browser for instance, whether to use safari or chrome is my own choice, but maps are part of many other applications which are now degraded partially. I will post the pictures in question when im on PC.

    Actually, I think that the booking.com app disproves your concern. It is running on an iPad 3 was iOS six and it is using third-party maps... Apparently the maps are not supplied by Google or Nokia. Another app, StreetViewer, uses Google to supply the map backend.

    The architecture of the Apple maps app is superior to the architecture of the Google maps app. Apple maps provides support for overglaze… For example how Street in name details appear as you zoom in on a map -- and are replaced by more global neighborhood data when you zoom out. I suspect that Apple will open this capability third-party developers. Then, they will be able to develop custom maps showing overlays of demographic such as crime, population density, average income, political affiliation…

    As to better speakers: you can plug in speakers through the earphone jack, or AirPlay to external speakers.
  • Reply 342 of 454
    Out of curiosity, I've just been doing some map surfing on Apple maps.

    Try as I might, I could not get Apple maps to return any location for Dome the Rock in Jerusalem. After some frustration, I finally located it on the hybrid map. Here's the good part: I used Siri to dictate the details of the problem and it was very easy to report it.

    Well… On to Dubrovnik, then Paterson New Jersey.
  • Reply 343 of 454


    Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post

    What on earth has this got to do with this thread???


     


    When a question can be answered by reading the title of the article, I don't think you've thought it through very well.





    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

    The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.


     


    Here's the best part: By the time Google actually gets around to doing it, it will already be too late. Because Apple Maps will be better than all of their competitors by then.

  • Reply 344 of 454
    Odd...

    I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".

    It returned a list of two search results.

    I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.

    I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.

    I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.

    Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.

    It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.
  • Reply 345 of 454
    ernysp76 wrote: »
    What on earth has this got to do with this thread???

    When a question can be answered by reading the title of the article, I don't think you've thought it through very well.
    rayz wrote: »
    The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.

    Here's the best part: By the time Google actually gets around to doing it, it will already be too late. Because Apple Maps will be better than all of their competitors by then.

    I think the OPs' assumption is wrong. Apple has divorced itself from Google maps. There is no going back. Apple may tolerate a Google offering on the app store -- but it will be, by definition, inferior because it will not be integrated into the OS and other apps.

    Apple's app has a more robust architecture, and Apple will move quickly to exploit this -- regardless of what or when Google does anything.
  • Reply 346 of 454
    Odd...
    I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".
    It returned a list of two search results.
    I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.
    I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.
    I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.
    Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.
    It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.

    Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.
  • Reply 347 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    Odd...

    I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".

    It returned a list of two search results.

    I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.

    I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.

    I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.

    Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.

    It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.




    Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.


     


    None of the errors that I reported last weekend have been fixed, but since they are actually road mapping errors in the base map (missing county roads and new intersections) I would expect it to take some time.

  • Reply 348 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    Odd...

    I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".

    It returned a list of two search results.

    I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.

    I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.

    I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.

    Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.

    It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.




    Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.


     


    None of the errors that I reported last weekend have been fixed, but since they are actually road mapping errors in the base map (missing county roads and new intersections) I would expect it to take some time.



     


    I am reporting them as I find them.... maps and POIs, mainly.


     


    I do check back on those I remember!


     


    It would help if the maps error reporting mechanism acknowledged that your report had been sent and received...  I reported that as an error, too!

  • Reply 349 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.



    I thought map caching was one of the key needs which Maps was to deliver. I haven't the opportunity to test this yet, but it was one of the weaknesses of Google that Apple was trying to overcome in its version.

  • Reply 350 of 454
    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
    gatorguy wrote: »
    He is. 
    And I agree that doesn't automatically make him more qualified to comment on Apple management than someone who is not. Heck I've been CEO for two different companies myself, and still am at one of them.:lol:

    So everyone is CEO it seems.
    Fine by me.

    J.
  • Reply 351 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post


    I thought map caching was one of the key needs which Maps was to deliver. I haven't the opportunity to test this yet, but it was one of the weaknesses of Google that Apple was trying to overcome in its version.



    The old (Google-based) Maps app had a very tiny cache for maps data -- at least 10x too small.  The new Maps app seems to have no map data cache at all.

  • Reply 352 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


     


    Please enlighten me...


     


    I never said whose technology is involved -- just that Apple, its infrastructure (including backend partners) can handle the requests volume,,,


     


    Here's a little secret for you: iTunes and iCloud don't run on Apple servers.





    My point is, some companies develop scalable web/cloud software (and sometimes hardware) for their own use, and/or for sale to other companies. Examples: Oracle/Sun, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, IBM etc. Apple had such a technology when it acquired  NeXT (WebObjects), and actually used it for the Apple store in the beginning. Apple stopped selling it to other companies and only used it internally, and it stopped being supported and used. Most of what Apple does in the cloud is secret, which is a detriment. There is no pride in a secret back-room function.


     


    Apple's focus on consumer electronics has served them well, but they don't seem to have the mindset to be successful in the cloud. They redesign their cloud services every few years, discontinue the old service, and the new service is incompatible with the old mac. Your old mac can't run a new OS, and can't use the new could service, so customers trying to use Apple's cloud services are screwed.

  • Reply 353 of 454
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    Cook's letter may be cleverly written, and is able to convey different messages to different people. But it is that kind of ambiguity which is to me, deceptive, disingenuous and typical of what I expect from corporate America. Rather than make a clear statement of Apple's position, the letter wreaks of unnecessary apology whether Cook intended a duplicitous message or not.

    As for the who will see the letter, all I can say is anyone who watches morning news programs got an earful the next day, if my local news programs are indicative of the rest of the country. Anything Apple does makes news therefore giving the average consumer, those who might buy their iPhone at WalMart, a chance to hear what Apple did, without necessarily giving them a chance to parse Cooks letter for themselves. What I heard reported from several local network media outlets was a story made as important as other major news stories of the day by being included with the "real" news. And Cook's letter was paraphrased by each anchor, distilled to essentially this sound bite: "Apple issued a letter appologizing for customer outrage over its new Maps App that replaced Google's on the new iPhone, suggesting users download other apps instead" That's enough to do major damage right there (not that I think it will), but its going to give a few consumers pause before their next purchase of an iPhone. This is what bothers me about Cook's approach. While we can all sit here and distill the most positive message possible from his letter, the media is doing the exact opposite, intentionally, or otherwise.

    Meanwhile, Google's missteps are not garnering nearly the same kind of media attaention as Apple. While Aple's apology letter is being misinterpreted all over the media and throughout the web, not one major media outlet has picked up Motorola's "faked address" story, much less reported it on a local news broadcast. It mainly shows up on geek tech blogs and the like. suffice it to say, most iphone consumers will never see that story. And that's the difference between Apple and everybody else, and why not just the letter of what they say is important, but also the tone, and clarity of the message. Jobs knew this and that's why Apple never released a statement that wasn't absolutely crystal clear in its meaning, leaving Apple's competitors and detractors no room to misinterpret their position. Cook doesn't have to be Jobs, but his message must be clear.

    This letter hits the nail on the head of the point I've been trying to make and deserves to be reposted for anyone who missed it. If Cook has issued something like this, I think the media would have had far less room to misconstrue its message for the great unwashed masses for whom such a report is all they may ever hear about this mess.
    tbell wrote: »

    The only difference is Jobs might have called a media event. He, however, would not have apologized. Jobs might have called the product a beta out of the gate, which would have solved a lot of problems. If not, he would have said something like:

    "<span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">Apple's mission is to make the best products in the world for our customers. That is the whole purpose of our existence. Our new map application found in iOS 6 is no exception. We designed it with the intent of it being the best Map application on the planet.  </span>

    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">With that said, there has been a lot of media attention surrounding our new Map application. Most of the media stories paint our application in a bad light. The purpose of this open letter is to address these criticisms. </span>
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">Before I do this, let me explain a little bit about why we changed our Map application. There is a proverb that says if you want to make a great omelet you have to be willing to break a few eggs. This essentially means if you want to achieve something wonderful, you have to be willing to destroy what is already there. This is the approach Apple took with its new map application. Apple wished to provide customers with great new features like turn by turn directions, beautiful graphics, and voice  search. Our existing map partnership with Google, however, failed to allow us to do that. So with our new Map application we started from scratch to deliver these features.</span>
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">After a week on the market I can tell you that many of our customers love the new features like turn - by -turn directions, the speed of the application, fly over, Siri integration, and the amazing graphics. Some other customers, however, are rightfully concerned that the application has work to do in terms of providing correct information in regards to finding locations as well as some rendering issues. </span>
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">In truth, we simply failed to anticipate the amount of these errors being reported by these customers. We fully intend to investigate all these concerns, and rapidly issue fixes where necessary. I apologize if these bugs have caused some of our customers trouble.  </span>
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">Meanwhile, please know a map application is largely dependent on user information because maps frequently change. All large mapping companies like Google and Nokia rely on users to help correct information contained in the maps. Apple is no exception. To address some of our users concerns we rely heavily on user impute to point out mistakes. We sincerely appreciate our customers who have been using the application and reporting incorrect information. </span>
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">Despite some of the rough edges in our first release, the application has laid the foundation for the best mapping application out there. I ask you to stick with us as we do our best to make the needed changes quickly. </span>
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <br style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
    <span style="font-family:Monaco;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">Please know, if our new map application is not usable for your needs, there are a variety of excellent third party maps on our App Store. If necessary for your needs, I invite you to try them out. Thank you"</span>
  • Reply 354 of 454
    So the troll on AI doesn't understand that the difference doesn't matter in the slightest? :lol:

    Your points are moot unless you get a clue. :lol:

    So now I'm a troll and clueless because I want StreetView back on my iPhone, something I've had for the last 3 years?
    Rich.
  • Reply 355 of 454
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.

    Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?
    I don't suffer fools lightly.
  • Reply 356 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


    The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.



     


    Nope.  Google Maps is toast on iOS.  Google Maps will be replaced by other 3rd parties with data and willing to augment Apple Maps with layers.

  • Reply 357 of 454


    Will Apple Maps supersede Google Maps soon? The possibility exists because of iOS users are far more voracious consumers of the web. On the other hand, Google Maps was aided immeasurably by users over the years ... on the desktop. IMO, it is simply far easier to "annotate" on the desktop than on a phone. But maybe this is immaterial because Apple has invited iOS users to sample the mapping options available beyond the default app. Some users may not go back, regardless of how much iOS Maps improves. That's a good thing for us - we use what we find most useful and what we like best. Perhaps it was limiting to have relied only on the default solution all along.

  • Reply 358 of 454
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    mac_128 wrote: »
    Cook's letter may be cleverly written, and is able to convey different messages to different people. But it is that kind of ambiguity which is to me, deceptive, disingenuous and typical of what I expect from corporate America. Rather than make a clear statement of Apple's position, the letter wreaks of unnecessary apology whether Cook intended a duplicitous message or not.

    That's because you've already made up your mind that Apple is guilty and Cook is a moron.

    In reality, t was a well-written, honest, clear letter.

    1. We always strive to make the best possible applications.
    2. We fell short this time.
    3. We are fixing it.
    4. We are sorry for any inconvenience this caused you.
    5. If you're not happy with our app, we'll even give you the names of some alternatives you can use while we're improving ours.

    How in the world is that duplicitous, disingenuous, deceptive, or ambiguous?
  • Reply 359 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.



     


    I think this will come in time.

  • Reply 360 of 454
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    isheldon wrote: »
    Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?
    I don't suffer fools lightly.

    I sure hope you never look in a mirror.

    Do you think that errors in Google's maps magically fixed themselves over the past years? Of course not. They got fixed by people reporting problems. That's how every mapping system gets better over time.
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