NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple

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  • Reply 361 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post





    Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?

    I don't suffer fools lightly.




    Who's we? Do you actually believe Google Maps has never benefited from crowdsourcing?


     


    Who is the fool here?

  • Reply 362 of 454
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    mcarling wrote: »
    If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

    I agree that caching would be a useful feature. However, I'm not sure I'd call it 'fixing a problem'. It's actually a new feature request and should be submitted as such. If you submit it as a bug, you'll get a message back that it's working as designed - and it is.
  • Reply 363 of 454



    Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

    So now I'm a troll and clueless because I want StreetView back on my iPhone, something I've had for the last 3 years?

    Rich.


     



    Stick to the argument at hand, maybe? 


     



    Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

    Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?


     


    Probably because you don't, just as you don't have to help Google at all. Things just get done faster if you help. That's kind of how all aspects of society work.

  • Reply 364 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


    A few years ago, Apple asked Adobe to make Flash fit for mobile.


    Adobe said, "Yeah, when we get around to it."



    Actually, Adobe put a lot of work into Flash for iOS after the iPhone was introduced.


     




    Apple refused to support Flash in iOS.



    Apple engineers worked directly with Adobe for at least two years. This isn't Apple refusing to support it.




    When Adobe realised that the iPad was going to be bigger than Jupiter, they scrambled like mad to fix the problem



    Apple gave up hope that Adobe could do anything right as the first iPad was released.


    They didn't do much after that except blame Apple for not supporting Flash for iOS (even though Adobe could not get to to work to anyone's satisfaction) and then Adobe finally decided that Flash for all mobile devices was much to work and gave it up.

  • Reply 365 of 454
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,294member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post



    So everyone is CEO it seems.

    Fine by me.

    J.


    There's a lot of talented people here. Some own their own companies, some have doctorates, some are probably considered experts in their field. There's members who were dabbling in computer science since before Apple even existed, perhaps even contributing to today's innovations. Most AI members are secure enough with who they are and what they do that they don't need to seek outside validation by telling everyone else how accomplished they are, followed by how much more worthy that makes them than you. 

  • Reply 366 of 454
    So do we say, "Mikey likes it," oh, "Mikey DOESN'T like it." Mikey, while I like your history, and your inside corporate perspectives, you got the long view wrong. Google maps for apple has been a hampered product for a long time anyway. It never kept pace with Android's Google maps. When you're giving your customer data to a competitor that throws you a "second-rate bone" to keep you happy, it's time to go to work on something better. Apple has struggled with partners forever. Samsung stealing ideas isn't new. We saw Microsoft freely borrow, and we saw Microsoft provide a weak sister version of MS Office to Apple. It's time for Apple to develop, if for no other reason than to push the competition by providing a parallel universe. They may not get it right at first, but they need to get in and go to work. re MS Office and iWork, I have both, and DON'T like Pages, but I've got friends who love it, and as iCloud pushes my documents around to all my devices, I'm starting to like it more. Apple will get it's Maps app right in time. And in the meantime, I'll go on using my 3rd party paid app that I've always used. Google maps gone from Apple a loss??? Mehhhh, not so much.
  • Reply 367 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post





    So now I'm a troll and clueless because I want StreetView back on my iPhone, something I've had for the last 3 years?

    Rich.


    Use FlyOver if your city is covered.


    You can actually zoom to street levels.  It's more consistent than street view.

  • Reply 368 of 454
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,294member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


     


    None of the errors that I reported last weekend have been fixed, but since they are actually road mapping errors in the base map (missing county roads and new intersections) I would expect it to take some time.



    For the near future I don't think Apple will be able to add any missing roads, fix incorrect intersections or modify flawed road geometry. They'll only be able to pass it on to their map providers for investigation and then correction if warranted. Apple doesn't produce it's own vector mapping and will have to wait on it's partners to deal with it which can be a slow process, sometimes years (or never) if it's a low priority report.

  • Reply 369 of 454
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


     


    None of the errors that I reported last weekend have been fixed, but since they are actually road mapping errors in the base map (missing county roads and new intersections) I would expect it to take some time.



    For the near future I don't think Apple will be able to add any missing roads, fix incorrect intersections or modify flawed road geometry. They'll only be able to pass it on to their map providers for investigation and then correction if warranted. Apple doesn't produce it's own vector mapping and will have to wait on it's partners to deal with it which can be a slow process, sometimes years (or never) if it's a low priority report.



     


    I guess it depends a bit on how much they are paying their partners for the data. I was under the impression that Apple were producing their own GIS data from a combination of sources - are they actually buying the entire product?

  • Reply 370 of 454
    mac_128 wrote: »
    Cook's letter may be cleverly written, and is able to convey different messages to different people. But it is that kind of ambiguity which is to me, deceptive, disingenuous and typical of what I expect from corporate America. Rather than make a clear statement of Apple's position, the letter wreaks of unnecessary apology whether Cook intended a duplicitous message or not.

    When preparing a letter like this, the CEO of a major corporation like Apple has to consider how it will be received by:
    • It's consumer customers
    • It's enterprise customers
    • It's reseller customers
    • It's direct sales customers
    • It's developers
    • It's partners
    • It's shareholders
    • It's competitors
    • The public in general -- with potential to become any of the above
    • The press in general

    By necessity it has to be a very carefully worded statement. Otherwise, Apple would be opening up itself to lawsuits in various forms by competitors, user class actions, et cetera.

    I put the press last because they're going to do what they're going to do -- to gather eyeballs or clicks.

    As expected, the press has picked up the ball and run with it -- making it a headline Issue wherever they can.

    However they eventually will move on to something like: "Apple sold 10 million new iPhones in nine days, despite the map fiasco..." Then the issue will slowly fade into history -- To be regurgitated every so often like antenna gate.

    The key here, is for Apple to take the expected press hit -- and minimize the damage to relationships between Apple and the other parties involved.

    In my experience and opinion, Tim has done an excellent job in the timing and wording of this letter!
  • Reply 371 of 454
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,294member


    Muppetry, they're starting with a base map, probably TIGER data in the US, adding raw road geometry and associated data, in the US it's from TomTom primarily, and combining it with secondary GIS/parcel data, which again in the US sources from CoreData, perhaps with others.  Then there's another layer with POI's from various data sources.  It's possible there's a few other map sources for even US regions that the primary providers may be weak in, but if so I haven't yet seen those specific areas and providers ID'd. 


     


    Tomtom can't simply take an error report of a missing or misaligned road and make a map change for every TT client and user without verifying the report. That often requires a physical visit to that area. Believe it or not there's map users who report bogus errors.


     


    Sometimes it's someone in a neighborhood who's tired of commercial vehicles traveling thru so he/she reports that road segment closed or one-way or even non-existent. Too it's not uncommon for competitors to dishonestly report another company has closed or moved. There's been instances where someone thinks it's cool to change a road name to their family name, or worse to someone's inside joke. Then there's just folks with nothing better to do than screw around with submitting error reports just to see what happens. Then there's the poorly described or iaccidently inaccurate reports.  For that reason error reports shouldn't be acted upon right away and aren't as a rule, especially without solid on-site verification that an error really exists.

  • Reply 372 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post



    Cook's letter may be cleverly written, and is able to convey different messages to different people. But it is that kind of ambiguity which is to me, deceptive, disingenuous and typical of what I expect from corporate America. Rather than make a clear statement of Apple's position, the letter wreaks of unnecessary apology whether Cook intended a duplicitous message or not.




    That's because you've already made up your mind that Apple is guilty and Cook is a moron.



    In reality, t was a well-written, honest, clear letter.



    1. We always strive to make the best possible applications.

    2. We fell short this time.

    3. We are fixing it.

    4. We are sorry for any inconvenience this caused you.

    5. If you're not happy with our app, we'll even give you the names of some alternatives you can use while we're improving ours.



    How in the world is that duplicitous, disingenuous, deceptive, or ambiguous?


     


    I agree!


     


    However, I liked the @TBell letter too!   It went a little farther (blaming Google, explaining the goals and problems, etc.).  I think it displays a "personalty" more like Steve's than Tim's.  I don't, necessarily, think that one letter is better than the other -- rather more a difference in style (and that Steve could get away with more, while not continuously being compared to his predecessor).

  • Reply 373 of 454


    I think the former post mentioned the Washington Monument because it was claimed to be an error in the NYT story. 


     


    So, between Apple's Maps app, Google Maps, Bing Maps and Yahoo Maps the only one that tags the Washington Monument exactly is Yahoo. The rest are out at the street.


     


    And, by the way, if you have a decent GPS signal (as I do) inside your house iOS 6 maps will follow you around inside your house just as iOS 5 maps do.

  • Reply 374 of 454


    Ya' know...


     


    I just realized that there are locations, communities and businesses that would pay good money to get their areas mapped, 3D-mapped and overlay mapped on 400 Million iOS devices...


     


    ...Travel agents, college campuses -- Tourist destinations like any ski resort, DisneyLand, Ft. Leavenworth, Mauna Kea, Rosatti's, the Louvre, Taos, Gilley's, Yungfraujoch, Detroit, Hammacher Schlemmer, Sindelfingen, Fargo, Bloomingdales, Pahrump, Costa Del Sol, Sparks, inside Mall of America...


     


    If Apple supports 3rd-party transportation packs, they, likely, could support 3rd-part map packs/overlays on the app store...


     


    There are some real opportunities here...


     


     


    Edit:  Street View Shmeet View... Ski Trail View -- that's where the real money is.

  • Reply 375 of 454
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Sometimes it's someone in a neighborhood who's tired of commercial vehicles traveling thru so he/she reports that road segment closed or one-way or even non-existent. Too it's not uncommon for competitors to dishonestly report another company has closed or moved. There's been instances where someone thinks it's cool to change a road name to their family name, or worse to someone's inside joke. Then there's just folks with nothing better to do than screw around with submitting error reports just to see what happens. Then there's the poorly described or iaccidently inaccurate reports.  For that reason error reports shouldn't be acted upon right away and aren't as a rule, especially without solid on-site verification that an error really exists.



    Then there is the allegation by Open Street Maps that some people from IP addresses at Google were falsifying map changes in Open Street Maps for whatever reason. Why did that occur? It makes no sense. Open Street Maps lets approved users make changes without authorization form administrators. Is this the same Open Street Maps that form the base for Apple Maps?


     


    http://opengeodata.org/google-ip-vandalizing-openstreetmap

  • Reply 376 of 454
    Ya' know...

    I just realized that there are locations, communities and businesses that would pay good money to get their areas mapped, 3D-mapped and overlay mapped on 400 Million iOS devices...

    ...Travel agents, college campuses -- Tourist destinations like any ski resort, DisneyLand, Ft. Leavenworth, Mauna Kea, Rosatti's, the Louvre, Taos, Gilley's, Yungfraujoch, Detroit, Hammacher Schlemmer, Sindelfingen, Fargo, Bloomingdales, Pahrump, Costa Del Sol, Sparks, inside Mall of America...

    If Apple supports 3rd-party transportation packs, they, likely, could support 3rd-part map packs/overlays on the app store...

    There are some real opportunities here...


    Edit:  Street View Shmeet View... Ski Trail View -- that's where the real money is.

    There really is a huge benefit to vendors and a huge lose to Google. Perhaps not a huge loss compared to their entire business but it's s substantial amount of money, device and money spending users that are continually having Google be able to record their data and push them ads less and less.
  • Reply 377 of 454
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    Out of curiosity, I've just been doing some map surfing on Apple maps.

    Try as I might, I could not get Apple maps to return any location for Dome the Rock in Jerusalem. After some frustration, I finally located it on the hybrid map. Here's the good part: I used Siri to dictate the details of the problem and it was very easy to report it.

    Well… On to Dubrovnik, then Paterson New Jersey.


     


     


    Perhaps, it is because it is called Dome of the Rock? :O)

  • Reply 378 of 454
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Ya' know...

    I just realized that there are locations, communities and businesses that would pay good money to get their areas mapped, 3D-mapped and overlay mapped on 400 Million iOS devices...

    ...Travel agents, college campuses -- Tourist destinations like any ski resort, DisneyLand, Ft. Leavenworth, Mauna Kea, Rosatti's, the Louvre, Taos, Gilley's, Yungfraujoch, Detroit, Hammacher Schlemmer, Sindelfingen, Fargo, Bloomingdales, Pahrump, Costa Del Sol, Sparks, inside Mall of America...

    If Apple supports 3rd-party transportation packs, they, likely, could support 3rd-part map packs/overlays on the app store...

    There are some real opportunities here...


    Edit:  Street View Shmeet View... Ski Trail View -- that's where the real money is.

    There really is a huge benefit to vendors and a huge lose to Google. Perhaps not a huge loss compared to their entire business but it's s substantial amount of money, device and money spending users that are continually having Google be able to record their data and push them ads.

    Exactly! People with money to spend, who are willing to spend it and who are willing to pay for quality.... That's a pretty attractive demographic!
  • Reply 379 of 454
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post





    Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?

    I don't suffer fools lightly.


     


     


    Google has always asked for crowd feed back to correct errors.  Perhaps, you are an all for yourself type of person. Cool. Some people like to think of the world as a community where we should pitch in to help each other out to the benefit of us all. It would be impossible for a company like Google or Apple to provide the sophisticated maps they offer without crowd impute. 

  • Reply 380 of 454
    WOT...

    Please pray for me…. My world came crashing down yesterday… I worked for years and finally, this year, our computers and devices are Windows and Office free…

    Yesterday, my grandkids Godfather gifted the boys with an HP desktop and my granddaughter with a portable of some kind...

    I am just not up to supporting Windows or Office… The closest support is two hours away, when available.

    Alas, woe is me!
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