If the rumors on a 32GB Nexus for $250-$260 are correct then yes an 8GB iPad for that same price would be a rip off. If Apple could find a way to do 16GB at $250-$299 that would be huge. I think that should be their starting configuration. But maybe that's just crazy talk.
I'm surprised to see so many models. $249 is a great starting price - even if 8GB does fill up very fast.
There are 18 models of the current iPad in the U.S. alone:
64GB: Black or White, Verizon or ATT (4)
32GB: Black or White, Verizon or ATT (4)
16GB: Black or White, Verizon or ATT (4)
64GB WiFi: Black or White (2)
32GB WiFi: Black or White (2)
16GB WiFi: Black or White (2)
I suspect there will be 22 models in the U.S., because they're also supposedly supporting 8GB in this new size.
And if 8GB is going to frustrate the hell out of people because most of the space is taken up with the OS and default apps, then they shouldn't bother with an 8GB version.
$249 is a great price compared to the larger iPad. But is it a great price compared to the Nook and Kindle? A 16GB Kindle Fire HD is $214 and the 32GB is $264 (without advertising banners). The Nook 7" HD is $199 for 8GB, $229 for 16GB. The Nook 9" is $269 for 16GB and $299 for 32GB. And the Nook simple touch (w/ e-ink) is just $99 without the backlight and $119 with the backlight if you just want a simple book reader.
So the question is, what market is Apple going after with this device? If you want a full-featured device, you probably want it in the larger existing size. If you want a smaller, lighter device primarily for reading books while traveling, then maybe the $99 Nook is more than enough.
The 8GB goes for as little as $230. So a $30 premium to add 8GB RAM.
Wal-Mart sells the 16GB for $249, and we all know that Wal-Mart subsidizes many of its products to trump the competition, as well as volume, which Amazon may not be able to compete with, at least in this category.
But here's the bottom line. apple charges a flat $100 bump between each storage bump, so 16Gb-32GB is $100, 32GB-64GB is another $100. If Apple charges the same on a mini, it will quickly out price itself. If it prices its storage bumps in step with Nexus 7, then it will have to change e way it charges for for the iPad. Not an enviable position to be in.
While I don't think the specs ultimately matter, I.e. the mini does not have all the same features as the new iPad at this price point, as long as the user experience is essentially the same for the tasks expected of the mini, you can bet sales clerks will make quite a bit out of the specs, especially since we all know they are more incentivized to sell Google products.
And while the Apple ecosystem is a desirable one, if customers are not already in it, the Nexus offers many of the mot popular features of Apple, Amazon books, movies and music, Angry Birds, etc. what more does the average consumer really use these tablets for anyway?
I still hold out hope that Apple is planning something more than just a mini-iPad to compete with the low-end market bottom feeders, because if this is all they have planned, at these price points, its going to be a struggle ... Apple has stayed out of this market space for good reason. Although they have never explicitly said so, the kinds of people who buy netbooks are not interested in the style and polish Apple charges a premium for. When customers hem and haw over $25 or $50 differences between crappy netbooks, they aren't likely to up the anti just to get something that looks nicer -- there's going to have to be a tangible reason for that particular customer to spend more.
$199 but a $50 premium is an easy sell IMHO. $100 premium fir the 16GB a little harder but still viable. What would be tough is if the 32GB Nexus 7 replaces the 16GB at $250 as rumored.
It's not $199 from anyone I've seen. That's probably gray market stuff.
Amazon is the lowest price out there at $235 - which is close enough to $249 to not matter.
As for future pricing, Apple will deal with that when it happens. They're not going to price a product based on some rumored potential future product. They can sell every Mini they make at $249 for at least the next couple of months. After Christmas, they can re-evaluate.
Like Dick Applebaum says, Apple has to show us what is the purpose of the iPad mini and what it can do.
Then you both have it wrong. Apple doesn't have to show us anything. Apple will introduce it to the market - and the purchasers will figure out what to do with it. Given the number of people who have stated (repeatedly) that they would buy one, I suspect the market has a pretty good idea what to do with it.
Apple's strategy is to charge a premium for iOS and the ecosystem, better long-term value, and beautiful design. I seriously hope they aren't focusing on targeting the masses with a $250 price-point.
Today, from the rumors I've heard, a $250 iPad mini with 2-year old hardware and 8GB is a very bad idea.
Yeah. Offering a significantly superior product to the Nexus 7 at the same price is a very bad idea. /s
I don't know where you are getting your pricing from - 8GB Nexus 7 came out for $199 and that also included a $25 credit to the Play store (I think this promotion is now expired after a few months) effectively making the device $175. All the prices you are seeing on Amazon are from 3rd party resellers because nobody here wants to admit that the Nexus is so popular its out of stock everywhere for the normal price and people are paying a PREMIUM to buy it!
Oh, and btw - Walmart does not "subsidize" anything they sell, especially electronics - they force the manufacturers to give them lower pricing due to their huge volume and hence the lower price in walmart vs. other retailers.
All the prices you are seeing on Amazon are from 3rd party resellers because nobody here wants to admit that the Nexus is so popular its out of stock everywhere for the normal price and people are paying a PREMIUM to buy it!
That would be stupid given you can just buy it direct from Google and it's in stock. More like Amazon isn't too keen on selling the Nexus 7 because it competes directly with the Fire.
That would be stupid given you can just buy it direct from Google and it's in stock. More like Amazon isn't too keen on selling the Nexus 7 because it competes directly with the Fire.
That might very well be the case now, but I know that the 8GB especially was out of stock for quite a while and resellers were getting a bit of a premium for them.
If the rumors on a 32GB Nexus for $250-$260 are correct then yes an 8GB iPad for that same price would be a rip off. If Apple could find a way to do 16GB at $250-$299 that would be huge. I think that should be their starting configuration. But maybe that's just crazy talk.
Thing is, they just have to be price competitive, which the 10" model currently isn't. At the end of the day, an iPad is still an iPad and that alone puts it ahead of Android tablets because of the eco-system and quality control. Plus, it will go up against 7" tablets where we expect the iPad will be closer to 8" i.e much bigger like the Vizio here:
If the iPad mini retina display is made on the same production lines as the 4S displays, yields shouldn't be an issue. However, it sounds like they want to use the absolute best display technology possible, so yields will be lower at first.
I can't see Apple selling a device for $649 that doesn't include a retina display. Just as the 9.7" iPad and Mac lines have both retina and non- options, it looks like they will have both options from the start for the mini, based on this pricing structure.
It also makes sense that the smaller iPad will be aimed at students with smaller fingers, so Apple will not need to include sandpaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVX
The price jump from 8GB to 16GB shouldn't be such a mystery, everything 16GB and above will have a retina display (this shouldn't be a surprise, Apple wants everyone to use a retina display). As with the 9.7" iPad, only the entry level model doesn't have a retina display.
These prices look very plausible, assuming the 8GB model is the only one w/o a retina display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
It's possible that they use the same 326 PPI panels from the touch in the $349 mini but I'd be concerned about yields. They're likely to be volume constrained this XMas for at least one of the product lines. They are currently running a 2 week delay on the iPods as is. Given the choice I would constrain the iPod yields and max out the iPad mini builds.
$299 for the 32GB touch to the $349 16GB iPad makes sense as does a $250 entry model. The only other concern is whether the stock A5 is going to be fast enough to drive a retina iPad. They may opt for the A5 from the iPod in the $250 model and the A5X in any retina ones.
That's one hell of a price drop from the iPad 3 at $499 to the iPad mini at $349 and in a smaller form factor. Possible but I'd expect a huge margin hit and a much earlier iPad 4 refresh with an A6 to justify the price premium and no mini refresh until 2014 to get back into the iPad cycle.
No, we don't agree that the formatting is forced to be redone. I have no clue why you persist in acting so childish and try to put words in other people's mouths.
You don't seem to understand that there are just as many pixels as before (compared to the iPad 2) and they are just smaller. I suppose in your mind a TV show needs to be reshot because I choose to view it on a 32" HDTV screen instead of your 50" HDTV screen. Or somehow I am unable to read the end credits because my screen is a little bit smaller than yours. I'm seeing the exact same number of pixels and the font is just as clear and sharp for me as for you.
…there are just as many pixels as before… …and they are just smaller. …somehow I am unable to read the end credits because my screen is a little bit smaller… I'm seeing the exact same number of pixels…
You're just waltzing around the point ignoring it at this point, so I'll leave you to that. I've already hand-held you all the way down the tree, now you can continue believing whatever you want to believe.
You're just waltzing around the point ignoring it at this point, so I'll leave you to that. I've already hand-held you all the way down the tree, now you can continue believing whatever you want to believe.
Thats pretty funny because I finally figured out why what you've been doing has been bugging me. It's like arguing with a creationist. They like taking some statement out of context and concluding something silly. Your last post was exactly like this.
Me: Yes, there are gaps in the fossil record.
You: Thank you! We finally agree. Therefore the world is 9000 years old.
Now that I recognize it, it's hilarious. Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
The only thing funny in a sad way is that you think making something smaller doesn't make it harder to see. I guess that's why retina displays are run at full resolution instead of pixel quadrupled.
Here's what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Thats pretty funny because I finally figured out why what you've been doing has been bugging me. It's like arguing with a creationist. They like taking some statement out of context and concluding something silly. Your last post was exactly like this.
Me: Yes, there are gaps in the fossil record.
You: Thank you! We finally agree. Therefore the world is 9000 years old.
Now that I recognize it, it's hilarious. Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
Unedited post, straight off the quote button. Notice the extra, useless spacing around everything.
Originally Posted by nht
Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
Arrow key downward across the lines, delete the extra space. Arrow key across the line containing "Originally Posted by", red underline pops up. Delete extra space within quote box added above said line, created when whitespace outside the quote box was deleted, by Command+left arrow to the beginning of the line and hitting Delete. Name changes automatically to nearest assumed word since the system sees you working within that "sentence". Shift+arrow keys to delete the extra parts of the post. Write reply. You can try it yourself, if you wish.
Comments
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Asus-Nexus-7-ASUS-1B16-with-WiFi-7-Touchscreen-Tablet-PC-Featuring-Android-4.1-Jelly-Bean-Operating-System/21150249
If the rumors on a 32GB Nexus for $250-$260 are correct then yes an 8GB iPad for that same price would be a rip off. If Apple could find a way to do 16GB at $250-$299 that would be huge. I think that should be their starting configuration. But maybe that's just crazy talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges
16 GB, 32 GB, 64 GB, Verizon LTE, AT&T LTE, Sprint LTE, T-Mobile HSPA+, WiFi.
ATT, Verizon and Sprint. Well known german providers. Ahem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I'm surprised to see so many models. $249 is a great starting price - even if 8GB does fill up very fast.
There are 18 models of the current iPad in the U.S. alone:
64GB: Black or White, Verizon or ATT (4)
32GB: Black or White, Verizon or ATT (4)
16GB: Black or White, Verizon or ATT (4)
64GB WiFi: Black or White (2)
32GB WiFi: Black or White (2)
16GB WiFi: Black or White (2)
I suspect there will be 22 models in the U.S., because they're also supposedly supporting 8GB in this new size.
And if 8GB is going to frustrate the hell out of people because most of the space is taken up with the OS and default apps, then they shouldn't bother with an 8GB version.
$249 is a great price compared to the larger iPad. But is it a great price compared to the Nook and Kindle? A 16GB Kindle Fire HD is $214 and the 32GB is $264 (without advertising banners). The Nook 7" HD is $199 for 8GB, $229 for 16GB. The Nook 9" is $269 for 16GB and $299 for 32GB. And the Nook simple touch (w/ e-ink) is just $99 without the backlight and $119 with the backlight if you just want a simple book reader.
So the question is, what market is Apple going after with this device? If you want a full-featured device, you probably want it in the larger existing size. If you want a smaller, lighter device primarily for reading books while traveling, then maybe the $99 Nook is more than enough.
Originally Posted by nht
Yes, the text gets smaller.
Thank you! We finally agree.
Therefore the formatting is forced to be redone.
http://www.amazon.com/Google-Nexus-Tablet-16-GB/dp/B008M04V1E/ref=pd_sim_pc_1
The 8GB goes for as little as $230. So a $30 premium to add 8GB RAM.
Wal-Mart sells the 16GB for $249, and we all know that Wal-Mart subsidizes many of its products to trump the competition, as well as volume, which Amazon may not be able to compete with, at least in this category.
But here's the bottom line. apple charges a flat $100 bump between each storage bump, so 16Gb-32GB is $100, 32GB-64GB is another $100. If Apple charges the same on a mini, it will quickly out price itself. If it prices its storage bumps in step with Nexus 7, then it will have to change e way it charges for for the iPad. Not an enviable position to be in.
While I don't think the specs ultimately matter, I.e. the mini does not have all the same features as the new iPad at this price point, as long as the user experience is essentially the same for the tasks expected of the mini, you can bet sales clerks will make quite a bit out of the specs, especially since we all know they are more incentivized to sell Google products.
And while the Apple ecosystem is a desirable one, if customers are not already in it, the Nexus offers many of the mot popular features of Apple, Amazon books, movies and music, Angry Birds, etc. what more does the average consumer really use these tablets for anyway?
I still hold out hope that Apple is planning something more than just a mini-iPad to compete with the low-end market bottom feeders, because if this is all they have planned, at these price points, its going to be a struggle ... Apple has stayed out of this market space for good reason. Although they have never explicitly said so, the kinds of people who buy netbooks are not interested in the style and polish Apple charges a premium for. When customers hem and haw over $25 or $50 differences between crappy netbooks, they aren't likely to up the anti just to get something that looks nicer -- there's going to have to be a tangible reason for that particular customer to spend more.
It's not $199 from anyone I've seen. That's probably gray market stuff.
Amazon is the lowest price out there at $235 - which is close enough to $249 to not matter.
As for future pricing, Apple will deal with that when it happens. They're not going to price a product based on some rumored potential future product. They can sell every Mini they make at $249 for at least the next couple of months. After Christmas, they can re-evaluate.
Then you both have it wrong. Apple doesn't have to show us anything. Apple will introduce it to the market - and the purchasers will figure out what to do with it. Given the number of people who have stated (repeatedly) that they would buy one, I suspect the market has a pretty good idea what to do with it.
Yeah. Offering a significantly superior product to the Nexus 7 at the same price is a very bad idea. /s
I don't know where you are getting your pricing from - 8GB Nexus 7 came out for $199 and that also included a $25 credit to the Play store (I think this promotion is now expired after a few months) effectively making the device $175. All the prices you are seeing on Amazon are from 3rd party resellers because nobody here wants to admit that the Nexus is so popular its out of stock everywhere for the normal price and people are paying a PREMIUM to buy it!
Here is the official pricing:
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb&
Oh, and btw - Walmart does not "subsidize" anything they sell, especially electronics - they force the manufacturers to give them lower pricing due to their huge volume and hence the lower price in walmart vs. other retailers.
Rant over...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
It's not $199 from anyone I've seen. That's probably gray market stuff.
Amazon is the lowest price out there at $235
No sir. $199 direct from Google.
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_7_8GB?id=nexus_7_8gb&hl=en
Quote:
Originally Posted by siwy
All the prices you are seeing on Amazon are from 3rd party resellers because nobody here wants to admit that the Nexus is so popular its out of stock everywhere for the normal price and people are paying a PREMIUM to buy it!
That would be stupid given you can just buy it direct from Google and it's in stock. More like Amazon isn't too keen on selling the Nexus 7 because it competes directly with the Fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
That would be stupid given you can just buy it direct from Google and it's in stock. More like Amazon isn't too keen on selling the Nexus 7 because it competes directly with the Fire.
That might very well be the case now, but I know that the 8GB especially was out of stock for quite a while and resellers were getting a bit of a premium for them.
Clever. Google is giving its licensees even more reason not to trust them. They'll undercut everyone on price.
Thing is, they just have to be price competitive, which the 10" model currently isn't. At the end of the day, an iPad is still an iPad and that alone puts it ahead of Android tablets because of the eco-system and quality control. Plus, it will go up against 7" tablets where we expect the iPad will be closer to 8" i.e much bigger like the Vizio here:
If the iPad mini retina display is made on the same production lines as the 4S displays, yields shouldn't be an issue. However, it sounds like they want to use the absolute best display technology possible, so yields will be lower at first.
I can't see Apple selling a device for $649 that doesn't include a retina display. Just as the 9.7" iPad and Mac lines have both retina and non- options, it looks like they will have both options from the start for the mini, based on this pricing structure.
It also makes sense that the smaller iPad will be aimed at students with smaller fingers, so Apple will not need to include sandpaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVX
The price jump from 8GB to 16GB shouldn't be such a mystery, everything 16GB and above will have a retina display (this shouldn't be a surprise, Apple wants everyone to use a retina display). As with the 9.7" iPad, only the entry level model doesn't have a retina display.
These prices look very plausible, assuming the 8GB model is the only one w/o a retina display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
It's possible that they use the same 326 PPI panels from the touch in the $349 mini but I'd be concerned about yields. They're likely to be volume constrained this XMas for at least one of the product lines. They are currently running a 2 week delay on the iPods as is. Given the choice I would constrain the iPod yields and max out the iPad mini builds.
$299 for the 32GB touch to the $349 16GB iPad makes sense as does a $250 entry model. The only other concern is whether the stock A5 is going to be fast enough to drive a retina iPad. They may opt for the A5 from the iPod in the $250 model and the A5X in any retina ones.
That's one hell of a price drop from the iPad 3 at $499 to the iPad mini at $349 and in a smaller form factor. Possible but I'd expect a huge margin hit and a much earlier iPad 4 refresh with an A6 to justify the price premium and no mini refresh until 2014 to get back into the iPad cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Thank you! We finally agree.
Therefore the formatting is forced to be redone.
No, we don't agree that the formatting is forced to be redone. I have no clue why you persist in acting so childish and try to put words in other people's mouths.
You don't seem to understand that there are just as many pixels as before (compared to the iPad 2) and they are just smaller. I suppose in your mind a TV show needs to be reshot because I choose to view it on a 32" HDTV screen instead of your 50" HDTV screen. Or somehow I am unable to read the end credits because my screen is a little bit smaller than yours. I'm seeing the exact same number of pixels and the font is just as clear and sharp for me as for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVX
If the iPad mini retina display is made on the same production lines as the 4S displays, yields shouldn't be an issue.
Yes, if they do that then there would be no shortage. They'd be giving up some thinness and weight savings though.
Originally Posted by nut
…there are just as many pixels as before… …and they are just smaller. …somehow I am unable to read the end credits because my screen is a little bit smaller… I'm seeing the exact same number of pixels…
You're just waltzing around the point ignoring it at this point, so I'll leave you to that. I've already hand-held you all the way down the tree, now you can continue believing whatever you want to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Clever. Google is giving its licensees even more reason not to trust them. They'll undercut everyone on price.
Resellers of the Nexus 7 would hardly be considered licensees. You might be thinking of the licensed Apple Value Added resellers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You're just waltzing around the point ignoring it at this point, so I'll leave you to that. I've already hand-held you all the way down the tree, now you can continue believing whatever you want to believe.
Thats pretty funny because I finally figured out why what you've been doing has been bugging me. It's like arguing with a creationist. They like taking some statement out of context and concluding something silly. Your last post was exactly like this.
Me: Yes, there are gaps in the fossil record.
You: Thank you! We finally agree. Therefore the world is 9000 years old.
Now that I recognize it, it's hilarious. Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
Originally Posted by nht
Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
The only thing funny in a sad way is that you think making something smaller doesn't make it harder to see. I guess that's why retina displays are run at full resolution instead of pixel quadrupled.
Here's what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Thats pretty funny because I finally figured out why what you've been doing has been bugging me. It's like arguing with a creationist. They like taking some statement out of context and concluding something silly. Your last post was exactly like this.
Me: Yes, there are gaps in the fossil record.
You: Thank you! We finally agree. Therefore the world is 9000 years old.
Now that I recognize it, it's hilarious. Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
Unedited post, straight off the quote button. Notice the extra, useless spacing around everything.
Originally Posted by nht
Even your passive aggressive "spelling checker" changed your name thing is funny in a sad way.
Arrow key downward across the lines, delete the extra space. Arrow key across the line containing "Originally Posted by", red underline pops up. Delete extra space within quote box added above said line, created when whitespace outside the quote box was deleted, by Command+left arrow to the beginning of the line and hitting Delete. Name changes automatically to nearest assumed word since the system sees you working within that "sentence". Shift+arrow keys to delete the extra parts of the post. Write reply. You can try it yourself, if you wish.