I don't see the point of removing the optical drive in a pure desktop machine...but I'll hand it to them, it's quite a beauty!
I totally agree. What's the difference how thin it is when it sits on top of a desk? As long as it's thinner than the stand, that's all it needs to be. Removing the drive is just Apple being obnoxious and forcing us to use iTunes. But people still want to watch DVDs or move large files around via CD-R or DVD-R and still want the ability to download tunes from a music CD. It might be old technology, but it's still extremely practical and Apple seems to be on a tear lately to make our lives more difficult just to make things thin or zen. Design should serve function - function shouldn't serve design.
I totally agree. What's the difference how thin it is when it sits on top of a desk? As long as it's thinner than the stand, that's all it needs to be. Removing the drive is just Apple being obnoxious and forcing us to use iTunes. But people still want to watch DVDs or move large files around via CD-R or DVD-R and still want the ability to download tunes from a music CD. It might be old technology, but it's still extremely practical and Apple seems to be on a tear lately to make our lives more difficult just to make things thin or zen. Design should serve function - function shouldn't serve design.
Amazon MP3 is still available. Netflix and Hulu are still available.
So are the top end versions of these new imac going to be adequate for FCP and FCP X? I run a small post facility and we do fairly typical spot work. No complex effects or rendering. Just offline on Final Cut and then online in Smoke. With a AJA IO XT on Thunderbolt for video monitoring and a Pegasus (or similar) for a RAID this seems like a decent Mac Pro replacement for our type of work. Of course with maxed out RAM and CPU speed.
Same thing that happens when someone shows up with an audio or vhs cassette. First we mock and laugh uncontrollably. Then we hold a mini intervention.
Not only is it analogous to the floppy removal, optical media is actually less common today than floppies were back when the imac first came out. For example, students today almost never use optical disks. Back when the imac was released, many students still used floppies. It was truly the only option if you didn't have a computer and were doing assignment on lab computers. Same thing with turning in assignments. Kids these days, they don't even want to touch a CD. Most wouldn't even care if their car didn't have a CD player. But tell them that they can't plug in the ipod or smart phone... now that is a tragedy.
Edit:
And as for grandma. She's already on facebook if she cares about seeing photos of the grandkids.
So kids are the entire market for this computer?
On what basis are you claiming that optical media is less common today than floppies when the iMac was released? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but IIRC, DVD movies alone are still a $4 billion business in the U.S. Blu-ray is another $1 billion. As per my above post, there are three very valid uses of optical media in a computer:
1. Watching DVDs (or Blu-rays, but god forbid Apple should support those)
2. Transporting large files without waiting for a download.
3. Loading CD tracks into iTunes
The lack of the optical drive is about two things:
- Apple's obsession with thinness
- Apple's desire to FORCE everyone to only buy media via iTunes.
I work with people who contribute audio files to a website. These files are very large and the only practical way of delivering them is via optical media - I've found services such as Dropbox to be unreliable. And while overall music industry sales are half (including downloads) of their 1999 peak, there are still several hundred million CDs sold each year in the U.S. alone. So while 12-year-olds might have no desire for a CD/DVD drive, people who do real work and have legacy collections still need/want one. And what's the point of buying an "all-in-one" laptop or a beautiful iMac if I have to clutter my desk with external crap? It should have remained an option.
Just because you need gas economy more than aerodynamics does not mean you cannot appreciate a Porsche. I accept that this might not stir your loins. But I hope, for your sake, that you are able to recognize there is more innovation here than just aesthetics.
What excites me is seeing innovation on all fronts. It looks like Jony Ive's industrial design team is pushing the envelope, now let's see the hardware design team do the same. Though I guess we may have to wait until Apple switches from relying on Intel's architectural timelines, to charting their own with the A series architecture. Given how fast iPads and iPhones are iterating and improving that architecture, it likely won't be long.
I don't see the point of removing the optical drive in a pure desktop machine...but I'll hand it to them, it's quite a beauty!
There may be some people that use the optical drive often. Me? I'm not one of them. I purchased a MBA and an external optical drive to install some software but once that was done, I have to search the house for that thing because I haven't used that optical drive since!
People that complain about one more piece to carry around? It's going to be on your desk! People who complain about clutter? Huh? My external Optical cost me $40.00 bucks and it's size fits on the iMac big silver foot holding up the computer and one cord going to the back to hook it up and power the thing? Feeble arguments from some, lying on their bed, looking up to the ceiling to their old, faded poster of iMacs with built in optical drives! </sarcasm>
Embrace the future! How did Obama put it... the Nineties called and they want their computers with internal optical drives back!
Awww ... show me what meanness you had in store for me; I can take it
Seriously, it's not a matter of thinness but rather the process getting there. There are two aspects to the process: First, Apple had to develop innovative manufacturing processes. Second, it's the process of introducing impossibly thin devices ALL ACROSS their product lineups!!
No kidding. Samsung has to buy more advanced copiers to start cloning this beauty!
Ooops - misread you and was gonna post something mean.... Edge thin/thickness is important in the sense that from most angles it LOOKS so impossibly thin and light. But my desk face the door to my office which means that I approach my mac from 'the back', so to speak. I wonder what the very bulbous looking back will look like in real life. Will I need to re-configure my office?
I think I'm beginning to understand where Apple and I started taking diverging paths. I base the value of the machine on what I can accomplish with it. Apple is responding to those for whom the primary measure is how it looks.
I get it, it really does look nice, but the BENEFIT is lost on me. Whether it's one inch deep or three it still occupies the same amount of workspace area. What does the user gain through a small reduction in depth? The footprint doesn't change. What am I missing?
FOR THE RECORD: No offense meant to anyone who really likes the new form. I'm not condemning it, I'm just saying I don't get it, that's all.
Sorry but that's hot air in itself. Heat does not rise fast enough on its own to keep such a tight enclosure and fast running CPU cool. The stack effect, if that's what you're thinking of, does not work well here.
Sorry, but when it comes to thermal management, I'll trust Apple's method more than anyone else. The iMac will still use fans, and due to the fan-blade design, it still makes for a much quieter environment when the heat kicks in.
I have to believe there is someone in their lab to cranks the heat all the way up and watches what it does. I trust they know that much.
However, I will apply for a trademark for "Fan-gate" and "Heat-gate". Any other ones?
The chin it's sill got that chin!!! You would have thought after 7 years plus they could have come up with a design without it.
Why? They like it.
Anyone else notice that you cannot buy an iMac right now, and will not be able to buy an iMac for, at minimum, another week? Apple is no longer selling the iMac. That's a powerful statement.
Sorry, but when it comes to thermal management, I'll trust Apple's method more than anyone else. The iMac will still use fans, and due to the fan-blade design, it still makes for a much quieter environment when the heat kicks in.
I have to believe there is someone in their lab to cranks the heat all the way up and watches what it does. I trust they know that much.
However, I will apply for a trademark for "Fan-gate" and "Heat-gate". Any other ones?
Apple laptops have good thermal management provided that you don't use them for 100% CPU (on all cores) + 100% GPU tasks for a long time. If you do, CPU heat rises up to 90ºC and fans spin at max speed, and just touching the laptop can make you feel a bit worried about if such use could cause harm to your laptop: they don't seem to be designed for such a 100% resources work.
While I understand that this "to the limit" thermal behaviour might be reasonable for laptops, I don't agree to have it on a desktop. The new iMac design looks like if it can suffer the same thermal limits as current Apple laptops, and that wouldn't be nice. If you look at the photos posted today, you'll see the iMac advertised with last generation games... but... if playing such games pushes the iMac thermal design to the limit, then it's not a good design, no matter how much I love this new look.
That's nice, but the total thickness doesn't appear to be noticeably thinner, measure it from the thickest point, like the way we should measure Android phones.
The back is clearly a lot more curved than the previous version. I also question the wisdom of the SD card in the back. That makes it a bit awkward to use, either turn the entire machine around or grope around for the slot. I really liked the side edge slot.
I agree. As a photographer needing to swap cards out frequently, this is not optimal. I would have rather it been on the bottom.
On what basis are you claiming that optical media is less common today than floppies when the iMac was released? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but IIRC, DVD movies alone are still a $4 billion business in the U.S. Blu-ray is another $1 billion. As per my above post, there are three very valid uses of optical media in a computer:
1. Watching DVDs (or Blu-rays, but god forbid Apple should support those)
2. Transporting large files without waiting for a download.
3. Loading CD tracks into iTunes
The lack of the optical drive is about two things:
- Apple's obsession with thinness
- Apple's desire to FORCE everyone to only buy media via iTunes.
I work with people who contribute audio files to a website. These files are very large and the only practical way of delivering them is via optical media - I've found services such as Dropbox to be unreliable. And while overall music industry sales are half (including downloads) of their 1999 peak, there are still several hundred million CDs sold each year in the U.S. alone. So while 12-year-olds might have no desire for a CD/DVD drive, people who do real work and have legacy collections still need/want one. And what's the point of buying an "all-in-one" laptop or a beautiful iMac if I have to clutter my desk with external crap? It should have remained an option.
These people that suddenly show up with made-up statistics ("optical media less common today than floppies back in the day") dont add nothing to an educated well formed discussion.
Thank you for your reply. I was about to do the same thing and expose the same arguments. I'll also add, buying classical and opera albums on mp3 / iTunes format is a big no-no for me. Still go for optical there. And should I ignore my +1000 CD collection? my +1000 DVD collection?
Extra note. I work with a lot of 2 minute to 10 minute video spots, from various sources including TV stations and media companies, and their favorite storage solution is still the DVD. You try looking professional to a costumer by sending dropbox download links or through a USB drive. "Please return USB drive to us after you are done".. Uh... No.
I'm surprised nobody has commented on the fact that neither of the new iMacs have a FireWire port on the back. RIP...
You can still use Firewire with a Thunderbolt to Firewire adaptor - at least there are two Thunderbolt ports. But yeah, Firewire hard drives won't be made any more.
Really? For a DESKTOP computer that I just spent $1200+ for? So I bought this beautiful all-in-one computer only to have to make it ugly by buying an external burner? Look, I get it. Apple has decided that the optical drive is obsolete. I understand eliminating it on a laptop, but not on a desktop. I'm not a fan of losing the FW ports either. Yes, yes, I can buy an adapter, but again, why? Apple declaring something obsolete doesn't necessarily make it so.
That's all I'm saying. I bought the previous generous iMac with optical drive, and I'm quite happy about that. If you don't need one, cool. But, I would venture to guess I'm not the only person who will be unhappy to see this gone.
I agree with you - I use the optical drive almost daily (I produce DVDs of martial arts workshops).
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy
I don't see the point of removing the optical drive in a pure desktop machine...but I'll hand it to them, it's quite a beauty!
I totally agree. What's the difference how thin it is when it sits on top of a desk? As long as it's thinner than the stand, that's all it needs to be. Removing the drive is just Apple being obnoxious and forcing us to use iTunes. But people still want to watch DVDs or move large files around via CD-R or DVD-R and still want the ability to download tunes from a music CD. It might be old technology, but it's still extremely practical and Apple seems to be on a tear lately to make our lives more difficult just to make things thin or zen. Design should serve function - function shouldn't serve design.
Amazon MP3 is still available. Netflix and Hulu are still available.
Life moves on.
So are the top end versions of these new imac going to be adequate for FCP and FCP X? I run a small post facility and we do fairly typical spot work. No complex effects or rendering. Just offline on Final Cut and then online in Smoke. With a AJA IO XT on Thunderbolt for video monitoring and a Pegasus (or similar) for a RAID this seems like a decent Mac Pro replacement for our type of work. Of course with maxed out RAM and CPU speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
What happens when ... ?
Same thing that happens when someone shows up with an audio or vhs cassette. First we mock and laugh uncontrollably. Then we hold a mini intervention.
Not only is it analogous to the floppy removal, optical media is actually less common today than floppies were back when the imac first came out. For example, students today almost never use optical disks. Back when the imac was released, many students still used floppies. It was truly the only option if you didn't have a computer and were doing assignment on lab computers. Same thing with turning in assignments. Kids these days, they don't even want to touch a CD. Most wouldn't even care if their car didn't have a CD player. But tell them that they can't plug in the ipod or smart phone... now that is a tragedy.
Edit:
And as for grandma. She's already on facebook if she cares about seeing photos of the grandkids.
So kids are the entire market for this computer?
On what basis are you claiming that optical media is less common today than floppies when the iMac was released? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but IIRC, DVD movies alone are still a $4 billion business in the U.S. Blu-ray is another $1 billion. As per my above post, there are three very valid uses of optical media in a computer:
1. Watching DVDs (or Blu-rays, but god forbid Apple should support those)
2. Transporting large files without waiting for a download.
3. Loading CD tracks into iTunes
The lack of the optical drive is about two things:
- Apple's obsession with thinness
- Apple's desire to FORCE everyone to only buy media via iTunes.
I work with people who contribute audio files to a website. These files are very large and the only practical way of delivering them is via optical media - I've found services such as Dropbox to be unreliable. And while overall music industry sales are half (including downloads) of their 1999 peak, there are still several hundred million CDs sold each year in the U.S. alone. So while 12-year-olds might have no desire for a CD/DVD drive, people who do real work and have legacy collections still need/want one. And what's the point of buying an "all-in-one" laptop or a beautiful iMac if I have to clutter my desk with external crap? It should have remained an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Just because you need gas economy more than aerodynamics does not mean you cannot appreciate a Porsche. I accept that this might not stir your loins. But I hope, for your sake, that you are able to recognize there is more innovation here than just aesthetics.
What excites me is seeing innovation on all fronts. It looks like Jony Ive's industrial design team is pushing the envelope, now let's see the hardware design team do the same. Though I guess we may have to wait until Apple switches from relying on Intel's architectural timelines, to charting their own with the A series architecture. Given how fast iPads and iPhones are iterating and improving that architecture, it likely won't be long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy
I don't see the point of removing the optical drive in a pure desktop machine...but I'll hand it to them, it's quite a beauty!
There may be some people that use the optical drive often. Me? I'm not one of them. I purchased a MBA and an external optical drive to install some software but once that was done, I have to search the house for that thing because I haven't used that optical drive since!
People that complain about one more piece to carry around? It's going to be on your desk! People who complain about clutter? Huh? My external Optical cost me $40.00 bucks and it's size fits on the iMac big silver foot holding up the computer and one cord going to the back to hook it up and power the thing? Feeble arguments from some, lying on their bed, looking up to the ceiling to their old, faded poster of iMacs with built in optical drives! </sarcasm>
Embrace the future! How did Obama put it... the Nineties called and they want their computers with internal optical drives back!
/
/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Awww ... show me what meanness you had in store for me; I can take it
Seriously, it's not a matter of thinness but rather the process getting there. There are two aspects to the process: First, Apple had to develop innovative manufacturing processes. Second, it's the process of introducing impossibly thin devices ALL ACROSS their product lineups!!
No kidding. Samsung has to buy more advanced copiers to start cloning this beauty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
Ooops - misread you and was gonna post something mean.... Edge thin/thickness is important in the sense that from most angles it LOOKS so impossibly thin and light. But my desk face the door to my office which means that I approach my mac from 'the back', so to speak. I wonder what the very bulbous looking back will look like in real life. Will I need to re-configure my office?
I think I'm beginning to understand where Apple and I started taking diverging paths. I base the value of the machine on what I can accomplish with it. Apple is responding to those for whom the primary measure is how it looks.
I get it, it really does look nice, but the BENEFIT is lost on me. Whether it's one inch deep or three it still occupies the same amount of workspace area. What does the user gain through a small reduction in depth? The footprint doesn't change. What am I missing?
FOR THE RECORD: No offense meant to anyone who really likes the new form. I'm not condemning it, I'm just saying I don't get it, that's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Sorry but that's hot air in itself. Heat does not rise fast enough on its own to keep such a tight enclosure and fast running CPU cool. The stack effect, if that's what you're thinking of, does not work well here.
Sorry, but when it comes to thermal management, I'll trust Apple's method more than anyone else. The iMac will still use fans, and due to the fan-blade design, it still makes for a much quieter environment when the heat kicks in.
I have to believe there is someone in their lab to cranks the heat all the way up and watches what it does. I trust they know that much.
However, I will apply for a trademark for "Fan-gate" and "Heat-gate". Any other ones?
The chin it's sill got that chin!!! You would have thought after 7 years plus they could have come up with a design without it.
Originally Posted by Odysseus1923
The chin it's sill got that chin!!! You would have thought after 7 years plus they could have come up with a design without it.
Why? They like it.
Anyone else notice that you cannot buy an iMac right now, and will not be able to buy an iMac for, at minimum, another week? Apple is no longer selling the iMac. That's a powerful statement.
Not even preorders:
-said by no one
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
Sorry, but when it comes to thermal management, I'll trust Apple's method more than anyone else. The iMac will still use fans, and due to the fan-blade design, it still makes for a much quieter environment when the heat kicks in.
I have to believe there is someone in their lab to cranks the heat all the way up and watches what it does. I trust they know that much.
However, I will apply for a trademark for "Fan-gate" and "Heat-gate". Any other ones?
Apple laptops have good thermal management provided that you don't use them for 100% CPU (on all cores) + 100% GPU tasks for a long time. If you do, CPU heat rises up to 90ºC and fans spin at max speed, and just touching the laptop can make you feel a bit worried about if such use could cause harm to your laptop: they don't seem to be designed for such a 100% resources work.
While I understand that this "to the limit" thermal behaviour might be reasonable for laptops, I don't agree to have it on a desktop. The new iMac design looks like if it can suffer the same thermal limits as current Apple laptops, and that wouldn't be nice. If you look at the photos posted today, you'll see the iMac advertised with last generation games... but... if playing such games pushes the iMac thermal design to the limit, then it's not a good design, no matter how much I love this new look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
That's nice, but the total thickness doesn't appear to be noticeably thinner, measure it from the thickest point, like the way we should measure Android phones.
The back is clearly a lot more curved than the previous version. I also question the wisdom of the SD card in the back. That makes it a bit awkward to use, either turn the entire machine around or grope around for the slot. I really liked the side edge slot.
I agree. As a photographer needing to swap cards out frequently, this is not optimal. I would have rather it been on the bottom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
So kids are the entire market for this computer?
On what basis are you claiming that optical media is less common today than floppies when the iMac was released? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but IIRC, DVD movies alone are still a $4 billion business in the U.S. Blu-ray is another $1 billion. As per my above post, there are three very valid uses of optical media in a computer:
1. Watching DVDs (or Blu-rays, but god forbid Apple should support those)
2. Transporting large files without waiting for a download.
3. Loading CD tracks into iTunes
The lack of the optical drive is about two things:
- Apple's obsession with thinness
- Apple's desire to FORCE everyone to only buy media via iTunes.
I work with people who contribute audio files to a website. These files are very large and the only practical way of delivering them is via optical media - I've found services such as Dropbox to be unreliable. And while overall music industry sales are half (including downloads) of their 1999 peak, there are still several hundred million CDs sold each year in the U.S. alone. So while 12-year-olds might have no desire for a CD/DVD drive, people who do real work and have legacy collections still need/want one. And what's the point of buying an "all-in-one" laptop or a beautiful iMac if I have to clutter my desk with external crap? It should have remained an option.
These people that suddenly show up with made-up statistics ("optical media less common today than floppies back in the day") dont add nothing to an educated well formed discussion.
Thank you for your reply. I was about to do the same thing and expose the same arguments. I'll also add, buying classical and opera albums on mp3 / iTunes format is a big no-no for me. Still go for optical there. And should I ignore my +1000 CD collection? my +1000 DVD collection?
Extra note. I work with a lot of 2 minute to 10 minute video spots, from various sources including TV stations and media companies, and their favorite storage solution is still the DVD. You try looking professional to a costumer by sending dropbox download links or through a USB drive. "Please return USB drive to us after you are done".. Uh... No.
Sorry. All in one this is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by night9hawk
I'm surprised nobody has commented on the fact that neither of the new iMacs have a FireWire port on the back. RIP...
You can still use Firewire with a Thunderbolt to Firewire adaptor - at least there are two Thunderbolt ports. But yeah, Firewire hard drives won't be made any more.
Re: I thought the best part of the event was when Apple Insider's live blog announced the new iMacs have the retina display.
They do if you stand far enough away !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stageron
Has anyone noticed that Apple is now using 5400 RPM drives. WTF! Really? This sucks.
Only in the 21 inch. I fear it's a laptop drive - I'd rather have 750 GB at 7200-rpm (instead of 1 TB at 5400-rpm), as you can get in the MacBook Pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator
Really? For a DESKTOP computer that I just spent $1200+ for? So I bought this beautiful all-in-one computer only to have to make it ugly by buying an external burner? Look, I get it. Apple has decided that the optical drive is obsolete. I understand eliminating it on a laptop, but not on a desktop. I'm not a fan of losing the FW ports either. Yes, yes, I can buy an adapter, but again, why? Apple declaring something obsolete doesn't necessarily make it so.
That's all I'm saying. I bought the previous generous iMac with optical drive, and I'm quite happy about that. If you don't need one, cool. But, I would venture to guess I'm not the only person who will be unhappy to see this gone.
I agree with you - I use the optical drive almost daily (I produce DVDs of martial arts workshops).