Hmm. I never thought of 'begrudging' when Apple launched the iMac that basically kickstarted the revolution of their dramatic and unprecedented business comeback.
IMac helped pull them out of the whole they where in. However the greatest come back in corporate history was driven by other products.
I had Power Mac clone. It cost £2k. Before the extras. I was very excited by the iMac. It was an excellent consumer machine that put Apple and 'Mac' back on the map. It truly was the computer for the 'rest of us' as it finally delivered a Mac under 1k (despite the plethora of comments on here back in '97 that Apple should never do 'cheap'/will never do a sub 1k Mac etc, 'didn't need...etc. (Sound familiar?) Ironic that these days that Apple don't have a sub k iMac. Most of that era's excitement and sales for desktops was all about the iMac. I remember it well.
I don't buy that, I could make the argument that Linux all by itself was similarly exciting.
These days? My how the iMac has grown in power and style. And doubled in sales too. As a million+ seller, the iMac is doing as well as any single desktop model might by Apple or any other company.
Effectively it is Apple only full desktop model thus it does well by default.
You could think of the 21 inch iMac as the 'Air' and the 27 inch version as the Pro. Having now played with both and seen them apply to two different types of buyers...I can see how it covers the desktop consumer and the desktop pro.
Only if you can accept the built in monitor and its hard to service nature.
The mini is for those who have no budget. The 'Pro' is for those who have no budget. If you know what I mean.
For many business a computer is a trivial expense.
I used to think I needed a tower over an iMac. The classic x-mac. But 16 years later, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. :P The blue and white value tower became a 2k poor value tower...all these years later. And one rarely updated at that...and one out of touch with it's original market I think. At least in value, accessibility and power as well as relevance. In that respect, I think a top end or loaded iMac has assumed the mantle.
Here is where I have a slight problem with Apples marketing, slapping the word Pro onto the side of a computer doesn't make it a "Pro" machine. Rather it is the computers ability to perform the task at hand that makes it a Pro computer.
Back in the day when the Commodore 64 was brand new I knew a guy that did die-cast die design work with one. That effectively made it a pro computer in my mind. Sure many will laugh at this concept today but the machine represented a lot of power for the price in its day. Similarly any Apple machine can be a "Pro" computer as even the AIRs are being used by professionals.
The problem with the iMacs is mostly one of accessibility which is a big problem for some pro users. A secondary problem is the screen. There is a significant portion of Pro users that won't go for an iMac because of those issues. Believe it or not most of Apples laptops are easier to service than the iMac. Compare accessing the hard drive on a Unibody to access of the same drive on an iMac.
In short, I wanted a tower but have found the iMac would crush the carcass of many towers. Astonishing design and power with value and the best GPU yet in an iMac with 8 gigs of ram and plug in more or less what you would like externally to give you all the SSD or RAID you want.
A tower can be anything from a hollow box to a machine crammed full with the latest tech. Crushing the iMac is a simple job of configuring the machine correctly.
Who knows. It may have 6 or 8 core cpus in it one day...
I have no doubt about that.
It will only make it more compelling. CPUs will evolve. So will the iMac.
That just means an XMac or Mac Pro can become more powerful. If you take a look at some of the new XEON information leaked yesterday you will see that a Mac Pro could be a very very powerful machine if Apple really wanted to make it so.
That said, I think we'll see a new 'Pro' this year. I hope to see it radically redesigned to give people the access they wish for. In price. In performance. In upgradeability. But the next model looks very vulnerable to being the last.
If it follows the current mold of the Mac Pro it won't last three years. The Mac Pro is a waste of a machine as it is now, with barely enough sales to keep it in the catalog. The concept needs to be refactored into a more viable and salable platform.
Going to the Oxford Street Apple store in London...and a Premium reseller elsewhere...I noticed no Mac Pros anywhere to be seen.
Laptops, iPads, iPhones and iMacs. In that order I think...
Lemon Bon Bon.
The Mac Pro can no longer be sold in Europe. It is another one of those crazy European safety regs that will save no one. That right there ought to be an indication that the Mac Pros replacement is not far away.
I like how the size of the mini and the ability of it to plug into any monitor even if the iMac has a nice display.
Those feature do mean that the Mini is very handy for a collection of interesting uses. Like it or not the IMacs built in monitor is a liability for many applications.
The Mac Pro can no longer be sold in Europe. It is another one of those crazy European safety regs that will save no one. That right there ought to be an indication that the Mac Pros replacement is not far away.
That issue has been receiving excessive press. I linked it in the original thread, although I don't have the link anymore It didn't specifically mention fans. This is just one of those things that happens to fall under whatever rule. The regulation wasn't directly aimed at machines like the mac pro. Anyway they amended it in 2009. The only reason it even came up is due to how long the mac pro has gone without an update. It's not like adding a couple of these to the design is a big deal anyway.
I don't know about excessive press but this is certainly a case of excessive regulation. As I understand it they are required to guard access to FANS INSIDE THE CASE! That to me is hilarious.
As to the removal from the European market, this is what has been offered up as an explanation, I don't think the press is excessive if it is true. Obviously if someone doesn't know about this issue than the press hasn't been excessive.
That issue has been receiving excessive press. I linked it in the original thread, although I don't have the link anymore It didn't specifically mention fans. This is just one of those things that happens to fall under whatever rule. The regulation wasn't directly aimed at machines like the mac pro. Anyway they amended it in 2009. The only reason it even came up is due to how long the mac pro has gone without an update. It's not like adding a couple of these to the design is a big deal anyway.
MM is a versatile machine. Compact and robust. Hardly ever breaks down compared to the MBP and Airs.The price is reasonable also.
Well, it doesn't have the display as a liability. You could buy a Mac mini tomorrow and have it be a lemon and buy a MacBook Pro and have it last you a few years or vice versa.
You can buy anything in life and have it as a lemon.Even marry the wrong woman and be stuck with her.
This is all so true. The thing is if your iDevice goes bad you can get a replacement and not have to worry about the old one following you around! ????????
You're agreeing with yourself? Or agreeing with wizard?
At any rate, I think we will have the Mini for several more years at least through Skylake.
I'm in York PA this weekend attending Cabin Fever, which if you don't know is a show for model engineers, hobby machinist and people interested in old engine technology. As such there are a number of vendors there with CNC related software and hardware on display. One vendor actually stated that they intend to support their software on Mac OS in the future. The reason being that Windows has gotten so bad and combined with MS no longer supporting older hardware technologies they figure they have to hedge their bets.
The problem as I see it is that Apple doesn't really have an ideal machine for this sort of Application. The Mini comes close but I'm not like you as I'm not convinced it will be around long at all. If it doesn't get some attention this year I'm afraid it could very well be phased out leaving Apple with nothing suitable for this sort of application.
Interestingly one of the reasons they are considering Mac OS and Apples hardware is that of single vendor support. That is when support is needed they know exactly what hardware and software looks like. In the end they think it will be all around easier for them. I'm just not sure the hardware will be there in the future.
If it doesn't get some attention this year I'm afraid it could very well be phased out leaving Apple with nothing suitable for this sort of application.
The fact that they mentioned it at the special event in October to me shows it is still in the cards. Time will tell.
What good does mentioning the hardware do? They need to modernize the machine to stimulate sales. Mini revs have been so minimal that I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers in charge,just phone the changes in.
What good does mentioning the hardware do? They need to modernize the machine to stimulate sales. Mini revs have been so minimal that I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers in charge,just phone the changes in.
Oh of course they phone it in but I still think the entry level customers are important to Apple. I could be wrong though.
Oh of course they phone it in but I still think the entry level customers are important to Apple. I could be wrong though.
I look at it this way, they put advance technology into the AIRs and hold decent prices. If they can do that with the AIRs the Mini should not be a problem. Lets face it the Mini has a stiff price tag on it for what you get and it always lags with respect to updates. The only thing in worst shape is the Mac Pro.
A stiff price tag? Are you kidding? Compared to the other crap out there it is sure worth the money.$599.00 for a PC that is versatile is a no brain one.
Comments
Back in the day when the Commodore 64 was brand new I knew a guy that did die-cast die design work with one. That effectively made it a pro computer in my mind. Sure many will laugh at this concept today but the machine represented a lot of power for the price in its day. Similarly any Apple machine can be a "Pro" computer as even the AIRs are being used by professionals.
The problem with the iMacs is mostly one of accessibility which is a big problem for some pro users. A secondary problem is the screen. There is a significant portion of Pro users that won't go for an iMac because of those issues. Believe it or not most of Apples laptops are easier to service than the iMac. Compare accessing the hard drive on a Unibody to access of the same drive on an iMac. A tower can be anything from a hollow box to a machine crammed full with the latest tech. Crushing the iMac is a simple job of configuring the machine correctly. I have no doubt about that. That just means an XMac or Mac Pro can become more powerful. If you take a look at some of the new XEON information leaked yesterday you will see that a Mac Pro could be a very very powerful machine if Apple really wanted to make it so. If it follows the current mold of the Mac Pro it won't last three years. The Mac Pro is a waste of a machine as it is now, with barely enough sales to keep it in the catalog. The concept needs to be refactored into a more viable and salable platform. The Mac Pro can no longer be sold in Europe. It is another one of those crazy European safety regs that will save no one. That right there ought to be an indication that the Mac Pros replacement is not far away.
Those feature do mean that the Mini is very handy for a collection of interesting uses. Like it or not the IMacs built in monitor is a liability for many applications.
Windows sucks period. To many problems and updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The Mac Pro can no longer be sold in Europe. It is another one of those crazy European safety regs that will save no one. That right there ought to be an indication that the Mac Pros replacement is not far away.
That issue has been receiving excessive press. I linked it in the original thread, although I don't have the link anymore It didn't specifically mention fans. This is just one of those things that happens to fall under whatever rule. The regulation wasn't directly aimed at machines like the mac pro. Anyway they amended it in 2009. The only reason it even came up is due to how long the mac pro has gone without an update. It's not like adding a couple of these to the design is a big deal anyway.
As to the removal from the European market, this is what has been offered up as an explanation, I don't think the press is excessive if it is true. Obviously if someone doesn't know about this issue than the press hasn't been excessive.
MM is a versatile machine. Compact and robust. Hardly ever breaks down compared to the MBP and Airs.The price is reasonable also.
Well, it doesn't have the display as a liability. You could buy a Mac mini tomorrow and have it be a lemon and buy a MacBook Pro and have it last you a few years or vice versa.
Those updates are a problem often leading to undefined bahaviour, crashes or forced reboots. Patch Tuesday should be called crap shoot Tuesday.
You can buy anything in life and have it as a lemon.Even marry the wrong woman and be stuck with her.
100% agree with you.
This is all so true. The thing is if your iDevice goes bad you can get a replacement and not have to worry about the old one following you around! ????????
You're agreeing with yourself? Or agreeing with wizard?
At any rate, I think we will have the Mini for several more years at least through Skylake.
I'm in York PA this weekend attending Cabin Fever, which if you don't know is a show for model engineers, hobby machinist and people interested in old engine technology. As such there are a number of vendors there with CNC related software and hardware on display. One vendor actually stated that they intend to support their software on Mac OS in the future. The reason being that Windows has gotten so bad and combined with MS no longer supporting older hardware technologies they figure they have to hedge their bets.
The problem as I see it is that Apple doesn't really have an ideal machine for this sort of Application. The Mini comes close but I'm not like you as I'm not convinced it will be around long at all. If it doesn't get some attention this year I'm afraid it could very well be phased out leaving Apple with nothing suitable for this sort of application.
Interestingly one of the reasons they are considering Mac OS and Apples hardware is that of single vendor support. That is when support is needed they know exactly what hardware and software looks like. In the end they think it will be all around easier for them. I'm just not sure the hardware will be there in the future.
The fact that they mentioned it at the special event in October to me shows it is still in the cards. Time will tell.
Oh of course they phone it in but I still think the entry level customers are important to Apple. I could be wrong though.
We shall see.
I look at it this way, they put advance technology into the AIRs and hold decent prices. If they can do that with the AIRs the Mini should not be a problem. Lets face it the Mini has a stiff price tag on it for what you get and it always lags with respect to updates. The only thing in worst shape is the Mac Pro.
A stiff price tag? Are you kidding? Compared to the other crap out there it is sure worth the money.$599.00 for a PC that is versatile is a no brain one.