Can they fix the UI design of some OSX and iOS apps now? I never thought that Tim had the balls... Great move. the first half of next year can really be all about new software paradigms.
That was my first thought. I'm very curious to see where Jony takes things.
I hope Ive does not become CEO at Apple. Scott Forstall would've had the balls to bring it all together (dealing with all top guys there), but he's leaving. Tim Cook should probably go back to Operations, if he doesn't have that position already in addition to CEO, and make sure that supply runs smoothly, while leaving the visionary position to someone else at Apple.
YES!!! Forstall is gone. I think he's been holding back iOS for far too long.
Written like a complete fool who knows nothing of Scott's background as former AppKit Chief and more. No one person holds back a single piece of product unless we're talking about not passing the Steve Test.
Whew. The photos of sketchy-looking Dixons stores gave me nightmares. I don't think anyone ever had a great feeling about that appointment.
And as much as I respect Scott Forstall and am concerned about his leaving, I'm really happy that Jony Ive is in charge of human interface at Apple. You could see the tension between Ive's simplicity and Forstall's love of stuff like the leather-bound calendar app and the wacky new podcasts app.
I hope Ive does not become CEO at Apple. Scott Forstall would've had the balls to bring it all together (dealing with all top guys there), but he's leaving. Tim Cook should probably go back to Operations, if he doesn't have that position already in addition to CEO, and make sure that supply runs smoothly, while leaving the visionary position to someone else at Apple.
The logical successor is Federighi. Craig is perfect for the role.
A lot of people will be happy to see Browett go. But Forstall? That's unexpected. I wonder if he was liked by Steve but not so much the other execs.
I suspect it is multiple things: Maps. The politician that he is reported to be (maybe he played the wrong hand under Tim). That he doesn't work and play well with others (reportedly.) And maybe he wanted to go anyway. This actually doesn't surprise me at all.
Good. I'm glad Scott Forstall is leaving. Maybe now some flexibility will be brought to iOS. I love iOS & how easy it is to use, but no one can deny it's getting a bit long in the tooth.
I am not so sure that is a correct assessment. I may be wrong to but I would guess Ive would be less flexible on the software than Forstall. Wasn't it Ive's and Job's bent on iBooks looking like a real book? I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
All I am saying is that I could see Forstall going toe-to-toe with Ive's and everyone knows how that is going to end.
Forestall has been sacked because of Mapgate. A bridge that appears to be melting (the horror!) and a misspelled city or two (Oh my God!—I can’t remember how to get to work!) have caused an unmitigated consumer confidence catastrophe. No faith nor trust in Apple remain, no one will upgrade to iOS 6, no one will buy the new iPad Mini, top executives are selling stock and jumping ship in droves. This is what every pundit has so long predicted: THE END OF APPLE FOREVER.
Thats big news regarding Scott. Apparently not well liked but he goes waaaay back with Jobs and Next. Seems like he's done a heck of a job shepherding iOS into full bloom. Hope that this was born of his own need to start something new, something that will dovetail with Apple in a good way.
UI design disasters like iOS Game Center and iBooks comes to mind. They look wretched IMHO. Perhaps I'll throw in Notes to a lesser extent.
Trying to force realword design/feel (wood, notepad paper, nasty green felt reminiscent of a cheap casino, etc.) on a modern OS.
I agree. And you can add the debacle that was Podcasts. I'm not certain those were his doing, but it would make sense that those teams were under him. There was a lot of half-baked iOS app development happening. iBooks is a mess, Game Center? Nobody uses it.
Anybody heard the 'Tim Cook - Why are you still here?' story?
Tim Cook, Scott Forstall and a bunch of Apple executives are sitting in a room discussing the after-effects of the mapping 'fiasco'. Tim turns to Scott and says: "This is not particular impressive, Scott. Your failure to be a team player and follow your own ambitions, aside, this has embarrassed Apple and tarnished it's reputation."
Scott: "I'm sorry, Tim, but you try replacing Google Maps within a 3 month time frame and see if you can do any better. I guarantee that if anybody else in the room had tried this you'd have a large pile of something unpleasant to jump your mountain bike over."
Tim Cook: "Okay. We're going to need someone to address this. I need you to get on a plane and fly to 'Mapsgate' so this can be resolved as soon as possible.".
Scott Forstall: "Okay. I'll get right on it."
Other business issues are discussed for half an hour or so but, when Tim notices Scott still sitting at the table, he turns to him and, with his piercing, laser-beam stare that Steve bequeathed to him, asks: "Why are you still here?"
Scott: "Sorry, Tim. I didn't realise you wanted me to go immediately. I'll get going now. What do you need done and where do you want me to go?"
Good news. Maybe Apple will finally update iOS look and move away from crazy skeumorphism.
I think if your looking for a switch up in iOS, which I also am, I think the loss of Scott is actually bad news.
I have been feeling that for the last two years that he and Apple must have had a fresh new take on the iOS and been developing it slowly over the years. How could they not be? iOS is great and instantly recognizable but the mobile market grows fast and changes more frequently than the desktop market, so I don't think they could not have been prepping something new.
My guess is that with mobile phones becoming more powerful and storage prices dropping, they will eventually close the gap differences between iOS and OSX or whatever their new desktop OS will be. May take a few years but this seems logical
Now I'm not saying that they will be identical, but . . .
With Scott gone now, I doubt any drastic changes will happen next soon. . I think they will keep the ship on course and restructure or tweak things another year or so until they can figure when the next big jump I'm iOS is.
I thought Scott had the best stage persona over anyone currently at Apple, and from what I read he seemed to understand or at least emulate Steve's direction in a leadship role.
But who knows what's going on really. It will be an interesting time at Apple.
Hopefully Apple can still amaze us while keeping in tradition with the design and functionality we come to expect from them.
I have to say, it feels like now that iPhone 5 has shipped, we are truly entering the post Steve Jobs era which is both sad and frighting.
Oh I hope so! That skeuomorphic design approach needs to go... it's bloody awful. (works for Garageband though) The Calendar and Contacts apps need to focus on the user experience first and foremost. Apple has been losing it's way in that regard.
I think that Forstall was pissed by the fact they forced him to rush the development of Maps. I also suppose that many of his ideas to update iOS are being slowed down by others.
What proof do you have that "they forced him to rush"? How do you know he wasn't the one telling everyone else on the leadership team that Maps was ready before it was mature?
Good, big dick Browett (what were they thinking hiring him!) and Scott Forstall are going. Hopefully now customer service will take precedence over profit margins in Apples retail space again. And iOS will now have a chance to get the kind of sleek design excellence Apple's hardware products have - that leather bound calender app makes me cringe! Not to mention those 'enhancements' they made to Apple TV's interface that would not of passed muster if SJ was still around.
I am not so sure that is a correct assessment. I may be wrong to but I would guess Ive would be less flexible on the software than Forstall. Wasn't it Ive's and Job's bent on iBooks looking like a real book? I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
All I am saying is that I could see Forstall going toe-to-toe with Ive's and everyone knows how that is going to end.
Not Ive. It was Jobs and Forstall. Ive is on the anti-skeumorphism wing of Apple, as far as I know.
Ive might go to far in the other direction, or not. We'll see.
iOS is awesome and the best out there. It can be streamlined a bit, for sure, but it really is good. If you get stuck with Android for a while, you'll quickly appreciate just how good iOS is. I don't know how much credit Forstall should get for the quality of iOS though. Jobs was certainly on top of it for the releases at least through 4.x, and probably further.
Someday, a few years from now, we will have a better idea. It's super hard to know, from the outside, how valuable these guys are. Browett I think we all agree needed to go, but that's an exceptional case.
This is sort of expected. Things had changed at Apple from the time S. Jobs had to make a very serious decision about Jony Ive. You have to believe that there were some butting of heads between Ive and Forstall. Jobs surely thought that since Scott had been his right hand man for so long, he would always be there. Perhaps thinking that even after his death, perhaps Forstall would feel about Apple the same way Jobs had felt. He probably wanted to. But when the arguments started between Ive needing the phone to look a certain way, and Forstall wanting things a little different for his work to fit in. Something had to give. Once Jobs gave Ive the 'Golden Pass' with nobody able to overstep his decisions. You know, especially Forstall felt betrayed. Once Jobs died, and since it became apparent that Cook would be the CEO for a very long, long time. That probably left a sour taste on Forstall's mouth.
Then especially when another Executive left, and then came back, with a big, big salary. And that for supervising the work others were putting so much work on.
If you add all that up. Plus you have to believe that what was gonna be needed from Forstall to 'constantly' be upgrading the OS in order to stay in front of the 'Jelly Bean's and the 'Ice Cream Sandwiches' that Google would spit out at a fast rate. You have to believe that Scott Forstall stayed up a few nights thinking, "Is this all worth it anymore".
I am not so sure that is a correct assessment. I may be wrong to but I would guess Ive would be less flexible on the software than Forstall. Wasn't it Ive's and Job's bent on iBooks looking like a real book? I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
All I am saying is that I could see Forstall going toe-to-toe with Ive's and everyone knows how that is going to end.
I'm not sure where Scott was on this, but Johnny is definitely on the record for his dislike for the UI elements that look like real elements - game centre, calendar etc.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Can they fix the UI design of some OSX and iOS apps now? I never thought that Tim had the balls... Great move. the first half of next year can really be all about new software paradigms.
That was my first thought. I'm very curious to see where Jony takes things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150
YES!!! Forstall is gone. I think he's been holding back iOS for far too long.
Written like a complete fool who knows nothing of Scott's background as former AppKit Chief and more. No one person holds back a single piece of product unless we're talking about not passing the Steve Test.
Whew. The photos of sketchy-looking Dixons stores gave me nightmares. I don't think anyone ever had a great feeling about that appointment.
And as much as I respect Scott Forstall and am concerned about his leaving, I'm really happy that Jony Ive is in charge of human interface at Apple. You could see the tension between Ive's simplicity and Forstall's love of stuff like the leather-bound calendar app and the wacky new podcasts app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio
I hope Ive does not become CEO at Apple. Scott Forstall would've had the balls to bring it all together (dealing with all top guys there), but he's leaving. Tim Cook should probably go back to Operations, if he doesn't have that position already in addition to CEO, and make sure that supply runs smoothly, while leaving the visionary position to someone else at Apple.
The logical successor is Federighi. Craig is perfect for the role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
A lot of people will be happy to see Browett go. But Forstall? That's unexpected. I wonder if he was liked by Steve but not so much the other execs.
I suspect it is multiple things: Maps. The politician that he is reported to be (maybe he played the wrong hand under Tim). That he doesn't work and play well with others (reportedly.) And maybe he wanted to go anyway. This actually doesn't surprise me at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4TSON
Good. I'm glad Scott Forstall is leaving. Maybe now some flexibility will be brought to iOS. I love iOS & how easy it is to use, but no one can deny it's getting a bit long in the tooth.
I am not so sure that is a correct assessment. I may be wrong to but I would guess Ive would be less flexible on the software than Forstall. Wasn't it Ive's and Job's bent on iBooks looking like a real book? I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
All I am saying is that I could see Forstall going toe-to-toe with Ive's and everyone knows how that is going to end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix
Forestall has been sacked because of Mapgate. A bridge that appears to be melting (the horror!) and a misspelled city or two (Oh my God!—I can’t remember how to get to work!) have caused an unmitigated consumer confidence catastrophe. No faith nor trust in Apple remain, no one will upgrade to iOS 6, no one will buy the new iPad Mini, top executives are selling stock and jumping ship in droves. This is what every pundit has so long predicted: THE END OF APPLE FOREVER.
I nominate you for Darwin 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I don't care if the answer is yes; the answer's no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Quote:
If I had the time that might become my new sigline.
Very funny
I agree with the rest of his comment, too. It ain't one or the other, its well done or not. At the moment it is a mess.
Thats big news regarding Scott. Apparently not well liked but he goes waaaay back with Jobs and Next. Seems like he's done a heck of a job shepherding iOS into full bloom. Hope that this was born of his own need to start something new, something that will dovetail with Apple in a good way.
... or maybe just some r & r ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
The only move that surprises me here is Forstall. I guess the talk of him being groomed to be the next Steve Jobs was way off.
Well, keep in mind he had to be fired to come into his own too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
UI design disasters like iOS Game Center and iBooks comes to mind. They look wretched IMHO. Perhaps I'll throw in Notes to a lesser extent.
Trying to force realword design/feel (wood, notepad paper, nasty green felt reminiscent of a cheap casino, etc.) on a modern OS.
I agree. And you can add the debacle that was Podcasts. I'm not certain those were his doing, but it would make sense that those teams were under him. There was a lot of half-baked iOS app development happening. iBooks is a mess, Game Center? Nobody uses it.
Anybody heard the 'Tim Cook - Why are you still here?' story?
Tim Cook, Scott Forstall and a bunch of Apple executives are sitting in a room discussing the after-effects of the mapping 'fiasco'. Tim turns to Scott and says: "This is not particular impressive, Scott. Your failure to be a team player and follow your own ambitions, aside, this has embarrassed Apple and tarnished it's reputation."
Scott: "I'm sorry, Tim, but you try replacing Google Maps within a 3 month time frame and see if you can do any better. I guarantee that if anybody else in the room had tried this you'd have a large pile of something unpleasant to jump your mountain bike over."
Tim Cook: "Okay. We're going to need someone to address this. I need you to get on a plane and fly to 'Mapsgate' so this can be resolved as soon as possible.".
Scott Forstall: "Okay. I'll get right on it."
Other business issues are discussed for half an hour or so but, when Tim notices Scott still sitting at the table, he turns to him and, with his piercing, laser-beam stare that Steve bequeathed to him, asks: "Why are you still here?"
Scott: "Sorry, Tim. I didn't realise you wanted me to go immediately. I'll get going now. What do you need done and where do you want me to go?"
Tim Cook: "Mapsgate, Scott. Get lost."
I think if your looking for a switch up in iOS, which I also am, I think the loss of Scott is actually bad news.
I have been feeling that for the last two years that he and Apple must have had a fresh new take on the iOS and been developing it slowly over the years. How could they not be? iOS is great and instantly recognizable but the mobile market grows fast and changes more frequently than the desktop market, so I don't think they could not have been prepping something new.
My guess is that with mobile phones becoming more powerful and storage prices dropping, they will eventually close the gap differences between iOS and OSX or whatever their new desktop OS will be. May take a few years but this seems logical
Now I'm not saying that they will be identical, but . . .
With Scott gone now, I doubt any drastic changes will happen next soon. . I think they will keep the ship on course and restructure or tweak things another year or so until they can figure when the next big jump I'm iOS is.
I thought Scott had the best stage persona over anyone currently at Apple, and from what I read he seemed to understand or at least emulate Steve's direction in a leadship role.
But who knows what's going on really. It will be an interesting time at Apple.
Hopefully Apple can still amaze us while keeping in tradition with the design and functionality we come to expect from them.
I have to say, it feels like now that iPhone 5 has shipped, we are truly entering the post Steve Jobs era which is both sad and frighting.
But it's can also be exciting.
Man I miss Steve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I wonder if Jony Ive will remove the leather and such from Calendar, he likes minimalist design.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Oh I hope so! That skeuomorphic design approach needs to go... it's bloody awful. (works for Garageband though) The Calendar and Contacts apps need to focus on the user experience first and foremost. Apple has been losing it's way in that regard.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
I think that Forstall was pissed by the fact they forced him to rush the development of Maps. I also suppose that many of his ideas to update iOS are being slowed down by others.
What proof do you have that "they forced him to rush"? How do you know he wasn't the one telling everyone else on the leadership team that Maps was ready before it was mature?
Good, big dick Browett (what were they thinking hiring him!) and Scott Forstall are going. Hopefully now customer service will take precedence over profit margins in Apples retail space again. And iOS will now have a chance to get the kind of sleek design excellence Apple's hardware products have - that leather bound calender app makes me cringe! Not to mention those 'enhancements' they made to Apple TV's interface that would not of passed muster if SJ was still around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub
I am not so sure that is a correct assessment. I may be wrong to but I would guess Ive would be less flexible on the software than Forstall. Wasn't it Ive's and Job's bent on iBooks looking like a real book? I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
All I am saying is that I could see Forstall going toe-to-toe with Ive's and everyone knows how that is going to end.
Not Ive. It was Jobs and Forstall. Ive is on the anti-skeumorphism wing of Apple, as far as I know.
Ive might go to far in the other direction, or not. We'll see.
iOS is awesome and the best out there. It can be streamlined a bit, for sure, but it really is good. If you get stuck with Android for a while, you'll quickly appreciate just how good iOS is. I don't know how much credit Forstall should get for the quality of iOS though. Jobs was certainly on top of it for the releases at least through 4.x, and probably further.
Someday, a few years from now, we will have a better idea. It's super hard to know, from the outside, how valuable these guys are. Browett I think we all agree needed to go, but that's an exceptional case.
This is sort of expected. Things had changed at Apple from the time S. Jobs had to make a very serious decision about Jony Ive. You have to believe that there were some butting of heads between Ive and Forstall. Jobs surely thought that since Scott had been his right hand man for so long, he would always be there. Perhaps thinking that even after his death, perhaps Forstall would feel about Apple the same way Jobs had felt. He probably wanted to. But when the arguments started between Ive needing the phone to look a certain way, and Forstall wanting things a little different for his work to fit in. Something had to give. Once Jobs gave Ive the 'Golden Pass' with nobody able to overstep his decisions. You know, especially Forstall felt betrayed. Once Jobs died, and since it became apparent that Cook would be the CEO for a very long, long time. That probably left a sour taste on Forstall's mouth.
Then especially when another Executive left, and then came back, with a big, big salary. And that for supervising the work others were putting so much work on.
If you add all that up. Plus you have to believe that what was gonna be needed from Forstall to 'constantly' be upgrading the OS in order to stay in front of the 'Jelly Bean's and the 'Ice Cream Sandwiches' that Google would spit out at a fast rate. You have to believe that Scott Forstall stayed up a few nights thinking, "Is this all worth it anymore".
Guess this lets us know. Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub
I am not so sure that is a correct assessment. I may be wrong to but I would guess Ive would be less flexible on the software than Forstall. Wasn't it Ive's and Job's bent on iBooks looking like a real book? I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
All I am saying is that I could see Forstall going toe-to-toe with Ive's and everyone knows how that is going to end.
I'm not sure where Scott was on this, but Johnny is definitely on the record for his dislike for the UI elements that look like real elements - game centre, calendar etc.