I wouldn't have signed it either. It was a bullshit apology letter that validated the hyper-sensationalized, click-whore articles and noise made by thousands of trolls. Sure, the product isn't perfect. But the letter was worded in a way that would have made it very difficult for me to sign if Id worked on the product for years and was proud of what was accomplished. It was basically 'yeah, our product sucks, we're sorry but we'll try better next time.
**** that. I wish Forstall the best whatever he does. I believe that after Jobs, he's the most responsible for Apple's post 2007 explosion. That credit can't go to Ive. Macs have always had great hardware design, that hasnt increased their sales in any major way. Apple's current success is 95% attributable to iOS and the appstore. And Forstall had done an insanely incredible job with that, making them the most successful mobile OS and digital store on the planet. Not something to be scoffed at. iOS has also gotten steadily more powerful and feature filled, making careful changes while also preserving simplicity and intuitiveness. Thats also huge. The unceremonial dismissal of Forstall makes me sick, as is all the giddiness about his dismissal. Good thing these forums weren't available when SJ was forced out, I have no doubt the 'good riddance' comments would be identical.
I understand that Forstall was excellent at taking credit for other's work. If so, then we may never really know how much was Forstall and how much was other's efforts. Or we may know in a couple years when iOS continues to rule without Forstall around.
1. Steve Jobs was a unique personality. Not every one can get away with being unapologetic. He could. I
2. During SJ's years at Apple, specifically the rise of iOS, Apple was at the top of the game and far, far ahead. That lead is no longer the case.
3. I am not a fan of skeumorphic UI. I think Ive over seeing UI for software is a Good Thing.
4. From CNET: "In fact, Forstall recently sent an email to some of the folks on Apple's iOS software team saying that the group "wasn't working on enough big ideas in mobile software," according to the WSJ. That's effectively saying that Forstall thought the company was struggling to compete, so it's no surprise that tensions were mounting." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57542297-37/apples-scott-forstall-ousted-after-refusing-to-sign-apology-reports-say/
I completely agree with Forstall on this point.
Final Thoughts:
Forstall's departure carries with it a trade off.
Thus, it's hard to say whether its a good thing or a bad thing.
Likewise, its hard to say whether Apple will continue to be innovative or not.
The future of Apple seems up in the air at this point.
I like the fact that Apple that didn't used to apologize (at least so directly, didn't compare products to competitors (so directly), and didn't bad mouth other products (explicitly).
I liked that Apple never responded to market pressure, but rather created new markets.
I enjoy my iPhone 5, iPad 3, and have not yet had a problem with Maps.
Hopefully it's not that bad, but do understand your concerns, especially for the iOS cash cows in the very long term.
And I tend to agree, the innovation level is not that high. Fortunately the 'polish' level is still very high and keeps me in iOS. But...IMO... Android JB is near parity(sorry everyone).
Prior AI article not withstanding.... Lets see what the Feds and major companies do with phones. Say what you want, BB it is(or has been) still king in govt and major companies. And in my major aerospace company iOS is out. Lack of direct enterprise control killed it(have to go through iTunes... The IT and security guys hate it... Rightly or wrongly). Feds have essentially said the same. Sure there are unique use cases, but they will not allow mail or other sensitive info on iOS devices. Apple has/had? A perfect opening to shutout all other platforms if they released a pure enterprise version. Instead, looks like Feds/major companies will go with Android or see how Win8 mobile works out(unified Exchange server). At this point I'd take anything for a work phone other than BB junk I have now.
And while im ranting... Also IMO, iPad mini is over priced to nexus7 etc. yes the mini is better, but will average Joe Schmo think it is worth it compare to $250?... Time will tell.
BTW I have a MB retina... Wow what a machine, but $$$$.
I don't mind Apple being a premium brand, just don't believe they can keep the high market share as it is now. Competition inevitably catches up on the sweet spots of the market.
The apology letter was not in response to the media firestorm associated with the Maps debacle. The apology letter was directed at both Apple customers AND Apple employees. Actually, I think it was directed more at Apple employees than customers. Do you remember what Steve jobs said to the people who worked on MobileMe? Let me quote the article by Lashinsky:
He asked the team what MobileMe was supposed to do. Someone answered, and Jobs said to that person (and everyone else), "So why the **** doesn't it do that?"
He continued, "You've tarnished Apple's reputation ... You should hate each other for having let each other down ... Mossberg, our friend, is no longer writing good things about us."
Right there and then he named a new executive to run the MobileMe service.
Lashinsky says most of the team that built the original service was disbanded.
Here, we have the Maps app. It may not have been as epic failure as MobileMe in its first iteration, but it was still a failure by Walt Mossberg's (and by proxy, Steve Jobs's) standards. What do you think should happen to the guy responsible for the Maps app?
I don't buy into the speculation about the reasons he left, however having said that I will accept it hypothetically for the purpose of replying to your question.
The bottom line is that Jobs, (In Jobs We Trust) put his faith in Cook, and if Cook made a decision that he wanted Forstall's signature on the public apology then we must trust that, otherwise it's just about ego and the ego is responsible for messing up most people's lives and it's Cook's job to not let ego mess up Apple.
Jobs leaving, left a huge ego vacuum. It would seem to be natural that some kind of struggle may have gone on to fill that vacuum. Apple needs to be a company without someone like Jobs for a while. He was unique. Apple will be a company struggling to develop an identity for a while because, for too long, Apple was Jobs, and Jobs was Apple. Jobs foresaw this and instituted a educational plan to see the culture he put in place continue to keep Apple insanely great. Forstall may have made a break from that vision; doing so would go along with his personality. Anyway, I believe that Cook will be more likely than anyone to hold to Job's vision and cut anyone loose that endangers that plan going forward.
Scott is leaving a rich man. Screw Apple!
Apple was too damn eager to put that iso map out. I'm sure Scott told them it wasn't ready but you know Tim, them fingers went snapping all in Scott's face.
No we don't know Tim and I suspect neither do you. Nor do you likely have any facts to back up this version of things.
For all we know Scott decided on the demo because he was certain Maps would be ready and Tim trusted him to live up to that. But then Forstall and team failed and on top of it, Forstall refused to take the blame publicly.
Both are equally possible given the lack of verified information. But given the horror stories about how Forstall refused to listen to feedback from anyone, spent weeks on his precious skeumorphic bits like the shadows on the volume knob and then iOS 6 released with major bugs, sent out emails to his team bad mouthing other execs including even Cook etc, I"m more inclined to believe he was not the innocent you paint him to be.
I wouldn't have signed it either. It was a bullshit apology letter that validated the hyper-sensationalized, click-whore articles and noise made by thousands of trolls. Sure, the product isn't perfect. But the letter was worded in a way that would have made it very difficult for me to sign if Id worked on the product for years and was proud of what was accomplished. It was basically 'yeah, our product sucks, we're sorry but we'll try better next time.
**** that. I wish Forstall the best whatever he does. I believe that after Jobs, he's the most responsible for Apple's post 2007 explosion. That credit can't go to Ive. Macs have always had great hardware design, that hasnt increased their sales in any major way. Apple's current success is 95% attributable to iOS and the appstore. And Forstall had done an insanely incredible job with that, making them the most successful mobile OS and digital store on the planet. Not something to be scoffed at. iOS has also gotten steadily more powerful and feature filled, making careful changes while also preserving simplicity and intuitiveness. Thats also huge. The unceremonial dismissal of Forstall makes me sick, as is all the giddiness about his dismissal. Good thing these forums weren't available when SJ was forced out, I have no doubt the 'good riddance' comments would be identical.
It was the first example where Cook pandered to rumor instead of doing what they should have done, issued a Beta status until it was ready for prime time and pushed off the release of iOS 6 by issuing iOS 5.5 retroactively pushing out iOS 6 with the matured and met Maps.app.
The one motto we brought from NeXT above all others simply being, ``Undersell, over deliver'' and this time they over sold and under delivered. That was a failure from the top and the board where Steve with carte blanche would have simply pushed back the date. This is nothing like antennagate. This is software. Fix it and release it when it is ready, not before hand.
1. assign impossible task (but seemingly possible enough so that the mile-high ego VP signs on)
2. don't veto the release of the results from this task
3. let the shit hit the fan
4. issue apology letter and let that VP lose face
5. make the case for this VP dismissal in front of the board. Because the failure cost Apple a fortune in reputation.
6. FIRED !!!
That's the way some companies do things, but I don't see it as the way Apple operates internally. Nor does Apple ever want to throw something out on the market that's SHIT just so they can get rid of someone. It just don't play when you understand Apple's focus on the customer's experience.
Cook is showing that he has little backbone, and has been bowing down to any kind of media/internet critisism. The logical course of action would be to have weathered the maps thing, as its already completely off the radar. Instead, he pens an embarrassing, groveling, sniveling apology letter, and forces the most important guy at Apple, who has given so much to the company and has an inumerable amount of successes, out the door. Imagine what would have happened if he was CEO when the iPad was revealed- there was near unanimous panning of the thing. He would have probably given in, either cancelled it before it hit shelves, or threw on OSX to appease the naysayers. He doesnt have conviction, and listens to the useless noise machine that is the internet and the media. Steve had conviction. He knew that most people are pretty fucking stupid, most complaints are short sighted and asinine, and he believed in the vision and seeing the forest for the trees. Cook apparently panics whenever the sees some trees. This was not worth throwing Forstall under the bus over, and kicking him out of the company. There's a reason Steve liked him so much. He had conviction.
. Instead, he pens an embarrassing, groveling, sniveling apology letter,
Hyperbolic much
and forces the most important guy at Apple, who
Was supervising development of one the key Apple products and released it with huge bugs. Customer experience destroying bugs that render wifi dead, that cause the phone to continue to use cell data when in wifi etc. that is a major problem.
has given so much to the company and has an inumerable amount of successes, out the door.
Which is why these issues are unacceptable. Forstall knew better.
Steve had conviction. He knew that most people are pretty fucking stupid, most complaints are short sighted and asinine,
Which is why he reemed the Mobile Me team for the shitty launch, why he held a media event over the 'asisine' antenna stories and then still gave out bumpers
Also you don't know the story with Forstall leaving. Perhaps he wanted to go on his own and this advisor thing was Tim's doing so he could stay on the books and get his big stock payout next year.
The one motto we brought from NeXT above all others simply being, ``Undersell, over deliver'' and this time they over sold and under delivered. That was a failure from the top and the board where Steve with carte blanche would have simply pushed back the date. This is nothing like antennagate. This is software. Fix it and release it when it is ready, not before hand.
Unless you are going to claim you were in the room, you don't know who promised what and failed to deliver. Perhaps it was Forstall who said everything would be perfect and then it wasn't, not Cook forcing him to release something half baked.
This really sucks. Everything that has made apple so successful these past 5 years- the iPhone, the iPad, the iPod touch, Siri... have been Scott's brainchildren. And now Apple is so quick to get rid of him? On the other hand, perhaps he can be replaced with somebody that can make iOS more like OS X and not like the very limited interface that it is now.
Forstall was the brainchild behind all of this? Really? Then how come he got 3 mentions in Walter Isaacson's Jobs biography while Ive gets a whole chapter. And how come Forstall is gone while Ive's (among others) role at Apple was expanded?
Forstall was the brainchild behind all of this? Really? Then how come he got 3 mentions in Walter Isaacson's Jobs biography while Ive gets a whole chapter. And how come Forstall is gone while Ive's (among others) role at Apple was expanded?
Forstall headed the iOS team. That's a FACT. Noone outside of Apple really knows for SURE the real reason why he's gone, but either way you can't take those things away from him, like you seem to ready and willing to do. Yes, he was the brainchild behind many of those things, and pretty much the entire infrastructure of iOS which makes it so efficient, responsive, smooth, powerful, and a mobile OS that hundreds of millions of people love and use. People buy iPhone because of iOS, not the hardware. It's pretty despicable to pretend suddenly that Forstall wasn't an extremely critical part of Apple. What Sj chose to talk about in his bio made for public consumption is irrelevant. Forstall's role and influence is well known. How else would he have stayed at Apple so long while being promoted, and being such a prominent part of most keynotes? Its also well known he was loved by Steve. I doubt that happens easily, knowing how difficult it is to earn Steve's admiration and trust. I guess he just didn't fit into the new 'huggle and friendly' Apple by Cook, that always believes everyone else is right and its wrong, ready to throw its most important people under the bus at the slightest provocation while penning endless apology letters. Steve didnt fire his engineering team after antennagate. He held a conference, EDUCATED people on why the antenna system was so great, gave CONTEXT by comparing it to other products, and provided a solution. He didnt say 'we fucked up and shipped a shitty product' while firing important people for show, which is exactly what Cook has done.
So Forstall thought the iOS team wasn't working on enough big ideas in mobile software. Hmmm...isn't Forstall basically responsible for that team? Sounds to me like someone in Forstall's camp is leaking to the press to shift the blame from Forstall to people who worked for him. Sorry but the buck has to stop with someone and usually that someone is the top dog.
Cook is going to fill Apple with a bunch of gentle spoken yes-men who will transform Apple into a new version HP or M$. They happily make crappy stuff.
P.S. am I the only one that has no problems with Apple maps? I have used the Siri GPS function at least 10 times so far without a hitch. I have found no difference between this and the Google app version, other than the Apple app is much more elegant.
Of course you're not the only one, but Apple is judged by a very high standard. If Microsoft releases a half-assed product or service NOBODY CARES, and certainly no SVP would be fired over Microsoft's failure to ship a mature product on the first try. But this is not Microsoft. Apple has to be goddamned 100% perfect. The first time.
Wait, you REALLY don't know about this? And this and this?
This precisely answers my point TS. The first two "apology" letters are signed by whom?? The CEO!!!! The 3rd one in your list is simply a generic "Apple" signature which as far as I'm concerned is stamped by the CEO.
The ONLY person of a publicly-owned company that should be making ANY kind of a public apology (written or spoken) is the CEO. No one else (including Forstall) has any business making official public statements representing the company. This is why I think this "rumor" is complete B.S. I'm just shaking my head in sheer disappointment with some folks here that don't seem to get that.
Now, assuming for a moment that Forstall did get the axe for the Maps fiasco, what "should have" and possibly "did" happen is that Tim Cook would have summoned him to his chambers (as Jobs did with the MobileME staff) and chew him out for tarnishing the Apple name. Forstall would be fired or disciplined in some way, perhaps a footnote written somewhere, and then Tim Cook would (and rightfully so) take the hit for the company and make the apology himself since it was ultimately Tim Cook's job as CEO to do it. He gets the glory, and the shame. Everyone else just gets fired. Period.
If the CEO asked me to sign a public apology letter, I'd too give him the big F.U. as Jobs most likely would do in the exact same position. It does nothing whatsoever except maybe playing some humiliation game.
That's assuming that this rumor is true, which as of right now I flat-out refuse to believe. You guys are really being gullible on this.
btw TS, you're right. I forgot about those letters. My bad. My point still stands though. Peace!
Looking for scapegoat is not going to lead to a better Maps app. Apple had taken a new approach with maps, things are bound to go wrong but dumping your man at the first sight of trouble is cowardice. Just my 2 cents.
Scott Forstall has long been rumored to be Jobs's mini-me. Don't you get it? Being forced out is all part of playing out that role. He asked to be fired ... He will return in a decade to bring Apple back from ashes and restore the glories of skueomorphic design.
Forstall was the brainchild behind all of this? Really? Then how come he got 3 mentions in Walter Isaacson's Jobs biography while Ive gets a whole chapter. And how come Forstall is gone while Ive's (among others) role at Apple was expanded?
Because when you lose a power struggle, you lose your powers to your foe.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
I wouldn't have signed it either. It was a bullshit apology letter that validated the hyper-sensationalized, click-whore articles and noise made by thousands of trolls. Sure, the product isn't perfect. But the letter was worded in a way that would have made it very difficult for me to sign if Id worked on the product for years and was proud of what was accomplished. It was basically 'yeah, our product sucks, we're sorry but we'll try better next time.
**** that. I wish Forstall the best whatever he does. I believe that after Jobs, he's the most responsible for Apple's post 2007 explosion. That credit can't go to Ive. Macs have always had great hardware design, that hasnt increased their sales in any major way. Apple's current success is 95% attributable to iOS and the appstore. And Forstall had done an insanely incredible job with that, making them the most successful mobile OS and digital store on the planet. Not something to be scoffed at. iOS has also gotten steadily more powerful and feature filled, making careful changes while also preserving simplicity and intuitiveness. Thats also huge. The unceremonial dismissal of Forstall makes me sick, as is all the giddiness about his dismissal. Good thing these forums weren't available when SJ was forced out, I have no doubt the 'good riddance' comments would be identical.
I understand that Forstall was excellent at taking credit for other's work. If so, then we may never really know how much was Forstall and how much was other's efforts. Or we may know in a couple years when iOS continues to rule without Forstall around.
If this is true, it has to be the dumbest reason ever to fire a guy who was so instrumental in Apple's revival.
Hopefully it's not that bad, but do understand your concerns, especially for the iOS cash cows in the very long term.
And I tend to agree, the innovation level is not that high. Fortunately the 'polish' level is still very high and keeps me in iOS. But...IMO... Android JB is near parity(sorry everyone).
Prior AI article not withstanding.... Lets see what the Feds and major companies do with phones. Say what you want, BB it is(or has been) still king in govt and major companies. And in my major aerospace company iOS is out. Lack of direct enterprise control killed it(have to go through iTunes... The IT and security guys hate it... Rightly or wrongly). Feds have essentially said the same. Sure there are unique use cases, but they will not allow mail or other sensitive info on iOS devices. Apple has/had? A perfect opening to shutout all other platforms if they released a pure enterprise version. Instead, looks like Feds/major companies will go with Android or see how Win8 mobile works out(unified Exchange server). At this point I'd take anything for a work phone other than BB junk I have now.
And while im ranting... Also IMO, iPad mini is over priced to nexus7 etc. yes the mini is better, but will average Joe Schmo think it is worth it compare to $250?... Time will tell.
BTW I have a MB retina... Wow what a machine, but $$$$.
I don't mind Apple being a premium brand, just don't believe they can keep the high market share as it is now. Competition inevitably catches up on the sweet spots of the market.
End of rant... Sorry.
You guys are missing the point.
The apology letter was not in response to the media firestorm associated with the Maps debacle. The apology letter was directed at both Apple customers AND Apple employees. Actually, I think it was directed more at Apple employees than customers. Do you remember what Steve jobs said to the people who worked on MobileMe? Let me quote the article by Lashinsky:
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-mobileme-failure-2011-5
Quote:
He asked the team what MobileMe was supposed to do. Someone answered, and Jobs said to that person (and everyone else), "So why the **** doesn't it do that?"
He continued, "You've tarnished Apple's reputation ... You should hate each other for having let each other down ... Mossberg, our friend, is no longer writing good things about us."
Right there and then he named a new executive to run the MobileMe service.
Lashinsky says most of the team that built the original service was disbanded.
Here, we have the Maps app. It may not have been as epic failure as MobileMe in its first iteration, but it was still a failure by Walt Mossberg's (and by proxy, Steve Jobs's) standards. What do you think should happen to the guy responsible for the Maps app?
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-mobileme-failure-2011-5#ixzz2Akxm9uw4
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack
I don't buy into the speculation about the reasons he left, however having said that I will accept it hypothetically for the purpose of replying to your question.
The bottom line is that Jobs, (In Jobs We Trust) put his faith in Cook, and if Cook made a decision that he wanted Forstall's signature on the public apology then we must trust that, otherwise it's just about ego and the ego is responsible for messing up most people's lives and it's Cook's job to not let ego mess up Apple.
Jobs leaving, left a huge ego vacuum. It would seem to be natural that some kind of struggle may have gone on to fill that vacuum. Apple needs to be a company without someone like Jobs for a while. He was unique. Apple will be a company struggling to develop an identity for a while because, for too long, Apple was Jobs, and Jobs was Apple. Jobs foresaw this and instituted a educational plan to see the culture he put in place continue to keep Apple insanely great. Forstall may have made a break from that vision; doing so would go along with his personality. Anyway, I believe that Cook will be more likely than anyone to hold to Job's vision and cut anyone loose that endangers that plan going forward.
No we don't know Tim and I suspect neither do you. Nor do you likely have any facts to back up this version of things.
For all we know Scott decided on the demo because he was certain Maps would be ready and Tim trusted him to live up to that. But then Forstall and team failed and on top of it, Forstall refused to take the blame publicly.
Both are equally possible given the lack of verified information. But given the horror stories about how Forstall refused to listen to feedback from anyone, spent weeks on his precious skeumorphic bits like the shadows on the volume knob and then iOS 6 released with major bugs, sent out emails to his team bad mouthing other execs including even Cook etc, I"m more inclined to believe he was not the innocent you paint him to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
I wouldn't have signed it either. It was a bullshit apology letter that validated the hyper-sensationalized, click-whore articles and noise made by thousands of trolls. Sure, the product isn't perfect. But the letter was worded in a way that would have made it very difficult for me to sign if Id worked on the product for years and was proud of what was accomplished. It was basically 'yeah, our product sucks, we're sorry but we'll try better next time.
**** that. I wish Forstall the best whatever he does. I believe that after Jobs, he's the most responsible for Apple's post 2007 explosion. That credit can't go to Ive. Macs have always had great hardware design, that hasnt increased their sales in any major way. Apple's current success is 95% attributable to iOS and the appstore. And Forstall had done an insanely incredible job with that, making them the most successful mobile OS and digital store on the planet. Not something to be scoffed at. iOS has also gotten steadily more powerful and feature filled, making careful changes while also preserving simplicity and intuitiveness. Thats also huge. The unceremonial dismissal of Forstall makes me sick, as is all the giddiness about his dismissal. Good thing these forums weren't available when SJ was forced out, I have no doubt the 'good riddance' comments would be identical.
It was the first example where Cook pandered to rumor instead of doing what they should have done, issued a Beta status until it was ready for prime time and pushed off the release of iOS 6 by issuing iOS 5.5 retroactively pushing out iOS 6 with the matured and met Maps.app.
The one motto we brought from NeXT above all others simply being, ``Undersell, over deliver'' and this time they over sold and under delivered. That was a failure from the top and the board where Steve with carte blanche would have simply pushed back the date. This is nothing like antennagate. This is software. Fix it and release it when it is ready, not before hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by galore2112
LOL, how to get rid of an inconvenient VP:
1. assign impossible task (but seemingly possible enough so that the mile-high ego VP signs on)
2. don't veto the release of the results from this task
3. let the shit hit the fan
4. issue apology letter and let that VP lose face
5. make the case for this VP dismissal in front of the board. Because the failure cost Apple a fortune in reputation.
6. FIRED !!!
That's the way some companies do things, but I don't see it as the way Apple operates internally. Nor does Apple ever want to throw something out on the market that's SHIT just so they can get rid of someone. It just don't play when you understand Apple's focus on the customer's experience.
Cook is showing that he has little backbone, and has been bowing down to any kind of media/internet critisism. The logical course of action would be to have weathered the maps thing, as its already completely off the radar. Instead, he pens an embarrassing, groveling, sniveling apology letter, and forces the most important guy at Apple, who has given so much to the company and has an inumerable amount of successes, out the door. Imagine what would have happened if he was CEO when the iPad was revealed- there was near unanimous panning of the thing. He would have probably given in, either cancelled it before it hit shelves, or threw on OSX to appease the naysayers. He doesnt have conviction, and listens to the useless noise machine that is the internet and the media. Steve had conviction. He knew that most people are pretty fucking stupid, most complaints are short sighted and asinine, and he believed in the vision and seeing the forest for the trees. Cook apparently panics whenever the sees some trees. This was not worth throwing Forstall under the bus over, and kicking him out of the company. There's a reason Steve liked him so much. He had conviction.
Hyperbolic much
Was supervising development of one the key Apple products and released it with huge bugs. Customer experience destroying bugs that render wifi dead, that cause the phone to continue to use cell data when in wifi etc. that is a major problem.
Which is why these issues are unacceptable. Forstall knew better.
Which is why he reemed the Mobile Me team for the shitty launch, why he held a media event over the 'asisine' antenna stories and then still gave out bumpers
Also you don't know the story with Forstall leaving. Perhaps he wanted to go on his own and this advisor thing was Tim's doing so he could stay on the books and get his big stock payout next year.
Unless you are going to claim you were in the room, you don't know who promised what and failed to deliver. Perhaps it was Forstall who said everything would be perfect and then it wasn't, not Cook forcing him to release something half baked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Forstall was the brainchild behind all of this? Really? Then how come he got 3 mentions in Walter Isaacson's Jobs biography while Ive gets a whole chapter. And how come Forstall is gone while Ive's (among others) role at Apple was expanded?
Forstall headed the iOS team. That's a FACT. Noone outside of Apple really knows for SURE the real reason why he's gone, but either way you can't take those things away from him, like you seem to ready and willing to do. Yes, he was the brainchild behind many of those things, and pretty much the entire infrastructure of iOS which makes it so efficient, responsive, smooth, powerful, and a mobile OS that hundreds of millions of people love and use. People buy iPhone because of iOS, not the hardware. It's pretty despicable to pretend suddenly that Forstall wasn't an extremely critical part of Apple. What Sj chose to talk about in his bio made for public consumption is irrelevant. Forstall's role and influence is well known. How else would he have stayed at Apple so long while being promoted, and being such a prominent part of most keynotes? Its also well known he was loved by Steve. I doubt that happens easily, knowing how difficult it is to earn Steve's admiration and trust. I guess he just didn't fit into the new 'huggle and friendly' Apple by Cook, that always believes everyone else is right and its wrong, ready to throw its most important people under the bus at the slightest provocation while penning endless apology letters. Steve didnt fire his engineering team after antennagate. He held a conference, EDUCATED people on why the antenna system was so great, gave CONTEXT by comparing it to other products, and provided a solution. He didnt say 'we fucked up and shipped a shitty product' while firing important people for show, which is exactly what Cook has done.
Cook is going to fill Apple with a bunch of gentle spoken yes-men who will transform Apple into a new version HP or M$. They happily make crappy stuff.
Of course you're not the only one, but Apple is judged by a very high standard. If Microsoft releases a half-assed product or service NOBODY CARES, and certainly no SVP would be fired over Microsoft's failure to ship a mature product on the first try. But this is not Microsoft. Apple has to be goddamned 100% perfect. The first time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Wait, you REALLY don't know about this? And this and this?
This precisely answers my point TS. The first two "apology" letters are signed by whom?? The CEO!!!! The 3rd one in your list is simply a generic "Apple" signature which as far as I'm concerned is stamped by the CEO.
The ONLY person of a publicly-owned company that should be making ANY kind of a public apology (written or spoken) is the CEO. No one else (including Forstall) has any business making official public statements representing the company. This is why I think this "rumor" is complete B.S. I'm just shaking my head in sheer disappointment with some folks here that don't seem to get that.
Now, assuming for a moment that Forstall did get the axe for the Maps fiasco, what "should have" and possibly "did" happen is that Tim Cook would have summoned him to his chambers (as Jobs did with the MobileME staff) and chew him out for tarnishing the Apple name. Forstall would be fired or disciplined in some way, perhaps a footnote written somewhere, and then Tim Cook would (and rightfully so) take the hit for the company and make the apology himself since it was ultimately Tim Cook's job as CEO to do it. He gets the glory, and the shame. Everyone else just gets fired. Period.
If the CEO asked me to sign a public apology letter, I'd too give him the big F.U. as Jobs most likely would do in the exact same position. It does nothing whatsoever except maybe playing some humiliation game.
That's assuming that this rumor is true, which as of right now I flat-out refuse to believe. You guys are really being gullible on this.
btw TS, you're right. I forgot about those letters. My bad. My point still stands though. Peace!
Scott Forstall has long been rumored to be Jobs's mini-me. Don't you get it? Being forced out is all part of playing out that role. He asked to be fired ... He will return in a decade to bring Apple back from ashes and restore the glories of skueomorphic design.
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Originally Posted by Rogifan
Forstall was the brainchild behind all of this? Really? Then how come he got 3 mentions in Walter Isaacson's Jobs biography while Ive gets a whole chapter. And how come Forstall is gone while Ive's (among others) role at Apple was expanded?
Because when you lose a power struggle, you lose your powers to your foe.