Scott Forstall's refusal to sign iOS Maps apology letter contributed to departure, sources say

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  • Reply 101 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Commodification View Post


    Cook is going to fill Apple with a bunch of gentle spoken yes-men who will transform Apple into a new version HP or M$. They happily make crappy stuff.





    Absurd and ill-informed.

  • Reply 102 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


     


    Jobs leaving, left a huge ego vacuum. It would seem to be natural that some kind of struggle may have gone on to fill that vacuum. Apple needs to be a company without someone like Jobs for a while. He was unique. Apple will be a company struggling to develop an identity for a while because, for too long, Apple was Jobs, and Jobs was Apple. Jobs foresaw this and instituted a educational plan to see the culture he put in place continue to keep Apple insanely great. Forstall may have made a break from that vision; doing so would go along with his personality. Anyway, I believe that Cook will be more likely than anyone to hold to Job's vision and cut anyone loose that endangers that plan going forward. 



     


    I agree.  Do you think Cook looked at Forstall and said:  "I knew Steve Jobs.  Steve Jobs was a friend of mine.  You are no Steve Jobs!"

  • Reply 103 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


     


    Forstall headed the iOS team. That's a FACT. Noone outside of Apple really knows for SURE the real reason why he's gone, ....... He didnt say 'we fucked up and shipped a shitty product' while firing important people for show, which is exactly what Cook has done. 



    No one knows what happened, yet you know exactly what and why Cook has done. Uh huh ...

  • Reply 104 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post





    Also you don't know the story with Forstall leaving. Perhaps he wanted to go on his own and this advisor thing was Tim's doing so he could stay on the books and get his big stock payout next year.


    The last person who was made an advisor, aka Bob Mansfield, now has more responsibilities than ever. Ergo, Forstall will follow this script and soon take over the whole company.

  • Reply 105 of 170
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,774member
    TBQH i think iOS has been stale for while now. I think Apple should allow more customizations of the home screen and other screens imo.
  • Reply 106 of 170
    The firing of Scott Forstall brings back memories of John Sculley firing Steve Jobs.
  • Reply 107 of 170
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member


    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


     


    Jobs leaving, left a huge ego vacuum. ...I believe that Cook will be more likely than anyone to hold to Job's vision and cut anyone loose that endangers that plan going forward. 


     



     


    Yeah, I'll concur with your assessment. He'll hold the Vision probably even better than Ive as it requires a bit of distance. The time was right for Jobs to push his baby (Apple) out of the nest anyway, with a $B100 you're pretty well all growed up.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post


    Scott Forstall has long been rumored to be Jobs's mini-me. Don't you get it? Being forced out is all part of playing out that role. He asked to be fired ... He will return in a decade to bring Apple back from ashes and restore the glories of skueomorphic design.



     


    Mini Me, was not Dr Evil's apprentice in waiting, remember. 


  • Reply 108 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by infosprt View Post



    The firing of Scott Forstall brings back memories of John Sculley firing Steve Jobs.


     


    Except that Steve Jobs actually created Apple and Scott Forstall didn't.  It's fair to assume that when Steve Jobs died, he was content with the fact that Tim Cook had the power to fire Scott Forstall.  It's fair to assume Steve Jobs had a tremendous amount of faith in Tim Cook.  And it's fair to assume that Tim Cook knows a lot more about Apple and Scott Forstall than we do.  


     


    The NY Times has reported that Forstall's peers are happier about his departure than they are about the World Series.  I kind of doubt that Jobs' peers felt that way when Sculley fired him.

  • Reply 109 of 170
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,619member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post



    TBQH i think iOS has been stale for while now. I think Apple should allow more customizations of the home screen and other screens imo.




    It's not stale.  It's efficient, and useable.  Folks that would prefer to have fluff like animated wallpapers that suck batteries down and other non-essential time-wasters can move on to Android.  If and when Apple can evolve iOS to where it makes sense and enhances (and not distort) the user-experience, I'm all for it.

  • Reply 110 of 170
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,316member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post


     


    Except that Steve Jobs actually created Apple and Scott Forstall didn't.  It's fair to assume that when Steve Jobs died, he was content with the fact that Tim Cook had the power to fire Scott Forstall.  It's fair to assume Steve Jobs had a tremendous amount of faith in Tim Cook.  And it's fair to assume that Tim Cook knows a lot more about Apple and Scott Forstall than we do.  


     


    The NY Times has reported that Forstall's peers are happier about his departure than they are about the World Series.  I kind of doubt that Jobs' peers felt that way when Sculley fired him.



     


    The times report alot of horse-shit from 'un-named' sources, usually to add to whatever sensational narrative it wants to push. Theres a good chance its bullshit or exaggerated. Steve Jobs also had tremendous faith in Forstall, otherwise he wouldnt have brought him over from next, gave him a major role in OSX development, then let him lead the most important team at Apple which is their mobile OS that would take the company into the future, then promote him again. Forstall must have proven himself a thousands times over to get that kind of responsibility and faith. Yet at the first sign of trouble, Cook throws him to the curb to satisfy the hungry media horde and internet Apple-hate machine, whose sole motivation is nothing but click-whoring. It's reprehensible. Forstall deserved better. 

  • Reply 111 of 170
    Some people see in this is the total lack of leadership of Tim Cook .. Unable to weld his team.
    Steve Jobs did more than 10 years with the team and Tim Cook in less than a year has managed to crack ...
    For some, this is Tim Cook Apple's problem, because yes apple has a problem, it loses its image of an innovator firm replaced by a Financial Holding.

    Tim Cook and his friends will spend more time to stay in power instead of moving Apple forward.
    The real punishment may come from the competition and consumers disinterest.

    Forstall has not only been on iOS projects but since the beginning of OSX he was one of the first system architects and a part of what apple is today, so he may go elsewhere, and imitate Rubin to fight apple.
    He's replaced by the guy who made OS Lion and Mountain Lion, and many people complained and still complain about it.
    Look at what happened with Steve Jobs and the creation of Next .... Will history repeats itself ?
    20 years ago apple had to fight Microsoft, today you have to add Google, Samsung etc...
  • Reply 112 of 170
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,619member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Commodification View Post


    Cook is going to fill Apple with a bunch of gentle spoken yes-men who will transform Apple into a new version HP or M$. They happily make crappy stuff.





    Your psychiatrist called to make sure you're still taking your meds twice daily.

  • Reply 113 of 170
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,619member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


     


    The times report alot of horse-shit from 'un-named' sources, usually to add to whatever sensational narrative it wants to push. Theres a good chance its bullshit or exaggerated. Steve Jobs also had tremendous faith in Forstall, otherwise he wouldnt have brought him over from next, gave him a major role in OSX development, then let him lead the most important team at Apple which is their mobile OS that would take the company into the future, then promote him again. Forstall must have proven himself a thousands times over to get that kind of responsibility and faith. Yet at the first sign of trouble, Cook throws him to the curb to satisfy the hungry media horde and internet Apple-hate machine, whose sole motivation is nothing but click-whoring. It's reprehensible. Forstall deserved better. 



     


     I agree.  This has such a stink to it.  Forstall did deserve better than have his name dragged around by the media lapdogs.  I hope the truth does come out someday, preferably from Scott's own mouth because everyone else seems to be drinking some kind of Kool-Aid.  Damn shame.

  • Reply 114 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    So more like it's pitched on its own page now, and less using of the marketing wordplay they originally had and used in keynotes? Taking it a step further, NOT using said wordplay in the keynotes at all, and simply pitching what they'd built it to do… ugh, what's the Latin phrase here. Two words… means "as operated" or… it's not in situ, but it's close to that… 



    How about not saying anything at all. If it's not ready, it's not ready. Why is that hard to understand? I market a product as being ready and having it dismally fail is brand damaging. You don't see that?

  • Reply 115 of 170
    eksodoseksodos Posts: 186member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post



    Sign a letter? What the hell? If it was his department- it's his fault- why force the guy to sign a letter? You aren't writing up a technician for being late or for sexual harassment. What an immature move on Apples part. Sign a letter? I'd tellem it was my department- I take the blame, but they can take that letter and shove it!


     


    The signed apology letter is a bullshit big corporation move. I'm not surprised if Scott did tell them to go shove it. I think it's reasonably safe to regard this as one of the rarest occasions when you truly can use the words: this never have happened if Steve Jobs were still around.

  • Reply 116 of 170

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    Macs have always had great hardware design, that hasn't increased their sales in any major way.



     


    Mac Observer: "Put in perspective, back in 2005, Apple sold 4.5 million Macs for the entire Fiscal year, so that's another measure of how far Apple has come."


     


    Especially with the PC market declining for quite a while now, I would say that is quite a feat. Of course it's not comparable to iPhone and iPad but still quite a feat.


     


    On Macs alone, Apple makes around 20 billion revenue a year now - more than ever before.

  • Reply 117 of 170


    Apple is already finished.


    Apple is going downhill

  • Reply 118 of 170
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    That's because it wasn't. It was pretty much entirely fabricated. Maps, at launch, was FAR better than Google Maps at launch. 


     



     


    Except aren't we comparing the competitive landscape of today instead of 2008 (or whenever people see as Google Maps being launched)? You see that is what the end consumer is likely comparing against. Apple itself never said during launch that this is going to be less accurate than Google maps for the time being or that there will be bugs did they?


     


    The expectations then is pretty much a personal experience based on previous usage history, marketing and rumors amongst other factors. To state that the critisism was entirely fabricated is in my opinion obnoxious, since that assumes that your personal feelings or opinions are the only correct ones.


     


    I'd guess that most of us understand that the level of accuracy that a global mapping solution requires is astounding and requires a massive amount of work -> bug are bound to exist. But does the consumer care if they are accustomed to the fact that everything Apple "just works"? Especially if marketing claims this? 

  • Reply 119 of 170
    leighrleighr Posts: 217member


    Apple's Maps App was one of the best decisions they have made of recent times. Sure it may have been difficult to map the entire world in the time they had, but in terms of a v.1 it blew away any other first version of mapping data.


     


    For Apple, doing the Maps App was a must. They have learn't all to well from the past what happens when you rely on third parties to provide software for your platform - just ask Bill Gates. It's not long before they start thinking about producing their own copied versions (Windows, MS Office etc.) or in Maps case, making their own hardware and OS - Android. For Apple to be at the mercy of their competitor, Google, who refused to add turn-by-turn capabilities to their iOS maps in order for it to appear inferior to Android, or make their own App is a no-brainer. I applaud Apple for making the tough decision to ditch Google maps and for conceiving their own, vector based maps in such a short period of time.


     


    I believe that Scott Forstall was right in not wanting to apologise (Microsoft never said sorry for Vista - and that's a whole operating system) for small errors in mapping data. The problem was not with the Application, it was with the data - which has taken Google many years to gather for their version, and which still contains basic errors. Will be sorry to see Scott depart over such a trivial issue that was just 'beat up' by a noisy minority that doesn't understand the real issues.

  • Reply 120 of 170
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post


     


    tundra, your post is entirely without merit. Tallest, made a completely valid point and that was that a single word response "touché" to someone else's post criticising TS, is just the 'big dog, little dog' syndrome. 'touché" as response to another poster is just bullshit it's not in any way 'discussion', TS was not complaining about being criticised he was complaining about someone else just quoting another post and going "me too", after all that is why we have the thumbs up crap isn't it?




     


    Getting a bit off topic, but Tundra's post was - in my opinion - with some merit if you look at past posting history of said people. He may have just quoted TS for the wrong post when the proverbial straw broke the camels back on his part, but he does have a point. At least I feel (a personal opinion), that a moderator should have more restraint than others on the forum and should themselves follow the rules they impose on others to the T or even more strictly. I tend to respect people that follow their own published rules more. 


     


    Maybe it's just TSs confrontational and often quite aggressive writing style (often writing in absolutes) that rubs me in the wrong way and colors my view of his posts. For example post #33 came off to me as condescending and fact assuming i.e. not stating factual claims as his own opinions, more like they were absolute facts and that tundra was a bit dimwitted for having an opposing opinion. In that post, the only factual part was the first answer. The rest were personal opinions colored with condescending remarks (Whoop de frick). That may have been another straw on the camels back before it eventually broke in post #61.

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