I think you and SolipsismX are twisting things around so much to explain why they didn't announce iPad mini sales numbers that you are practically saying the same thing as those you are arguing against.
Sure, Apple doesn't break out particular models from a product category when reporting sales, but as you yourself admit above, they do announce sales for a particular product like the iPhone 5, (and here is the part you left out... ) when it's new.
This is when they announce individual sales figures for a product, when it's new and when it's first released.
There is a long standing pattern of Apple releasing a new product and then announcing that said new product is doing well by releasing the sales figures of said product in it's first week, weekend or other appropriate measure of sales time. This is an unusual situation of releasing two products at the same time, but still we have every reason to expect that Apple would release the sales figures of the new iPad mini. It's the information that everyone wants to hear and everyone expects to hear.
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
They have never releases an iPhone and iPhone mini at the same time so you can't say that Apple would break up sales for a launch of two new items within the same category. They announced the unit sales of the new iPad products released last Friday. That's all there is and it goes along with their history of announcing a new product's sales. There is precedent for two new iOS-based devices launched at the same time so claiming Apple is being sneaky or lying needs to be backed up with some evidence.
Seriously, why ignore Apple's long standing pattern of only releasing one iPhone and one iPad at a time? Surely you have to see how releasing two new products within a category is different and yet you want to force some fuzzy accounting onto something that has no history unless you look upon it with blinders.
On top of that, there is nothing that points to the iPad mini sales being a flop. Every string you pull implies it's the iPad (4) that is being pulled up by this simply announcement of the new iPad products launched this weekend.
... Let's also remember that it was released in a record breaking 34 countries on the same day. If the number of units were so low you'd think they would have scaled it back to just a few countries like most releases. As it stands that is less than 28k iPad minis per country. ...
I'm not disagreeing with your general thrust here, but there is a further consideration when you are talking about how many went "to each country" (for sales), in that I have yet to hear of anyone outside of the USA that was able to get in on the first wave. I and several others I know for instance, ordered within the first minute of availability and yet, seemingly automatically, were given a two to three week delivery date.
I'm fairly certain that however many iPad minis were actually made for the release week, all of them were sold within the borders of the USA with very few exceptions.
Either that or they picked one other country (like the UK or Germany as they do sometimes), to share in the release stock. Most of that long list of countries won't be getting a single iPad mini until late November AFAICS.
Edit: Btw, I love the new forums... finally matching the rest of the new site And I also love the community here, much more practical, logical and less emotion (like a teenage girl) than other sites **cough cough macrumors & 9to5mac**
IMHO Apple declining to state weekend sales for the Mini is probably an indication there just weren't very many to sell (rather than no one wanted them). Not Apple-like to avoid announcing product launch figures if they're good. My completely uneducated guess is that fewer than 1M Mini's went home with new owners.
Despite your 5000+ posts, I can only conclude that you haven't been watching Apple very long. When have they EVER broken out individual product sales? The iPad mini isn't a new product line. It's just another iPad. And within any particular product line (iPods, MacBook Pros, etc) Apple seldom (never, I think) provides a breakdown of individual model sales. Why would one of the world's most secretive companies want the competition to know the breakdown of iPad vs iPad mini sales?
I think you and SolipsismX are twisting things around so much to explain why they didn't announce iPad mini sales numbers that you are practically saying the same thing as those you are arguing against.
Sure, Apple doesn't break out particular models from a product category when reporting sales, but as you yourself admit above, they do announce sales for a particular product like the iPhone 5, (and here is the part you left out... ) when it's new.
This is when they announce individual sales figures for a product, when it's new and when it's first released.
There is a long standing pattern of Apple releasing a new product and then announcing that said new product is doing well by releasing the sales figures of said product in it's first week, weekend or other appropriate measure of sales time. This is an unusual situation of releasing two products at the same time, but still we have every reason to expect that Apple would release the sales figures of the new iPad mini. It's the information that everyone wants to hear and everyone expects to hear.
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Not really.
They've announced the sales of the product they released: the new iPad. What is the value in breaking down sales by screen size?
When they brag about sales of the iPhone, or the iMac, do they state which screen size sold better?
I'm not disagreeing with your general thrust here, but there is a further consideration when you are talking about how many went "to each country" (for sales), in that I have yet to hear of anyone outside of the USA that was able to get in on the first wave. I and several others I know for instance, ordered within the first minute of availability and yet, seemingly automatically, were given a two to three week delivery date.
I'm fairly certain that however many iPad minis were actually made for the release week, all of them were sold within the borders of the USA with very few exceptions.
Either that or they picked one other country (like the UK or Germany as they do sometimes), to share in the release stock. Most of that long list of countries won't be getting a single iPad mini until late November AFAICS.
If you're going to claim that they lied about 34 countries for the release weekend you'll have to back that up. But why would they do that? If they had so little stock or knew the demand for the US, or US and UK was enough to sell all the units they had then why would they add 32 to 33 more countries? It makes no sense.
Right, he said that 9.7" was the minimum size for usable tablet apps. Never said tablet apps couldn't be made smaller.
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
They have never releases an iPhone and iPhone mini at the same time so you can't say that Apple would break up sales for a launch of two new items within the same category. They announced the unit sales of the new iPad products released last Friday. That's all there is and it goes along with their history of announcing a new product's sales. There is precedent for two new iOS-based devices launched at the same time so claiming Apple is being sneaky or lying needs to be backed up with some evidence.
Seriously, why ignore Apple's long standing pattern of only releasing one iPhone and one iPad at a time? Surely you have to see how releasing two new products within a category is different and yet you want to force some fuzzy accounting onto something that has no history unless you look upon it with blinders.
On top of that, there is nothing that points to the iPad mini sales being a flop. Every string you pull implies it's the iPad (4) that is being pulled up by this simply announcement of the new iPad products launched this weekend.
I think you're being overly defensive here. I see you accusing others on the same thread of saying that "the iPad mini is a flop," or something similar and them denying it. Now you are accusing me of the same thing and I can't see anything I've written that implies this at all.
Only an idiot would think that the iPad mini is a "flop" or anything of the sort. I think you're seeing this desire in me, and in others when it doesn't actually exist. People are simply arguing that it's unusual for Apple not to break out the numbers of a just released, new product. It is.
If you're going to claim that they lied about 34 countries for the release weekend you'll have to back that up. But why would they do that? If they had so little stock or knew the demand for the US, or US and UK was enough to sell all the units they had then why would they add 32 to 33 more countries? It makes no sense.
They wouldn't have to technically "lie" for what I said to be true. They simply said that preorders were going to be available in those 34 countries. They were.
It could also simply be a result of how they have their ordering system set up. A glitch, as it were, wherein all the US preorders got to the post faster.
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
Right, it's presented as a 7.9" tablet, which tends to fall under the 'minimum size' when 10"/9.7" is considered that.
Well, the question should be, how many of the iPad 4 sale is coming from a returned iPad 3? Given lot's of stores give 30-day return, and given Apple was selling around 5MM iPads a month last quarter, this has to be a concern.
And what other new iPhone was launched at the same time? None!
They have updated MBAs at the same time in the past. Since they have different display sizes find me where Apple broken down sales of 11" and 13" MBAs.
Right, it's presented as a 7.9" tablet, which tends to fall under the 'minimum size' when 10"/9.7" is considered that.
SJ might still have thought that the 7.9" compromises a "great" tablet app... but he would probably have stated that he was talking about 7" tablets... not 7.9" which is a totally different ball of wax.
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
Now that those great tablet apps have been created, it turns out they work great on an 8" 4:3 tablet as well.
Comments
They have never releases an iPhone and iPhone mini at the same time so you can't say that Apple would break up sales for a launch of two new items within the same category. They announced the unit sales of the new iPad products released last Friday. That's all there is and it goes along with their history of announcing a new product's sales. There is precedent for two new iOS-based devices launched at the same time so claiming Apple is being sneaky or lying needs to be backed up with some evidence.
Seriously, why ignore Apple's long standing pattern of only releasing one iPhone and one iPad at a time? Surely you have to see how releasing two new products within a category is different and yet you want to force some fuzzy accounting onto something that has no history unless you look upon it with blinders.
On top of that, there is nothing that points to the iPad mini sales being a flop. Every string you pull implies it's the iPad (4) that is being pulled up by this simply announcement of the new iPad products launched this weekend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
... Let's also remember that it was released in a record breaking 34 countries on the same day. If the number of units were so low you'd think they would have scaled it back to just a few countries like most releases. As it stands that is less than 28k iPad minis per country. ...
I'm not disagreeing with your general thrust here, but there is a further consideration when you are talking about how many went "to each country" (for sales), in that I have yet to hear of anyone outside of the USA that was able to get in on the first wave. I and several others I know for instance, ordered within the first minute of availability and yet, seemingly automatically, were given a two to three week delivery date.
I'm fairly certain that however many iPad minis were actually made for the release week, all of them were sold within the borders of the USA with very few exceptions.
Either that or they picked one other country (like the UK or Germany as they do sometimes), to share in the release stock. Most of that long list of countries won't be getting a single iPad mini until late November AFAICS.
Where did he say 10" is the minimum size for tablets?
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Again, he never stated that.
Right, he said that 9.7" was the minimum size for usable tablet apps. Never said tablet apps couldn't be made smaller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewyboy
Edit: Btw, I love the new forums... finally matching the rest of the new site
ROTFLMAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
IMHO Apple declining to state weekend sales for the Mini is probably an indication there just weren't very many to sell (rather than no one wanted them). Not Apple-like to avoid announcing product launch figures if they're good. My completely uneducated guess is that fewer than 1M Mini's went home with new owners.
Despite your 5000+ posts, I can only conclude that you haven't been watching Apple very long. When have they EVER broken out individual product sales? The iPad mini isn't a new product line. It's just another iPad. And within any particular product line (iPods, MacBook Pros, etc) Apple seldom (never, I think) provides a breakdown of individual model sales. Why would one of the world's most secretive companies want the competition to know the breakdown of iPad vs iPad mini sales?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I think you and SolipsismX are twisting things around so much to explain why they didn't announce iPad mini sales numbers that you are practically saying the same thing as those you are arguing against.
Sure, Apple doesn't break out particular models from a product category when reporting sales, but as you yourself admit above, they do announce sales for a particular product like the iPhone 5, (and here is the part you left out... ) when it's new.
This is when they announce individual sales figures for a product, when it's new and when it's first released.
There is a long standing pattern of Apple releasing a new product and then announcing that said new product is doing well by releasing the sales figures of said product in it's first week, weekend or other appropriate measure of sales time. This is an unusual situation of releasing two products at the same time, but still we have every reason to expect that Apple would release the sales figures of the new iPad mini. It's the information that everyone wants to hear and everyone expects to hear.
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Not really.
They've announced the sales of the product they released: the new iPad. What is the value in breaking down sales by screen size?
When they brag about sales of the iPhone, or the iMac, do they state which screen size sold better?
If you're going to claim that they lied about 34 countries for the release weekend you'll have to back that up. But why would they do that? If they had so little stock or knew the demand for the US, or US and UK was enough to sell all the units they had then why would they add 32 to 33 more countries? It makes no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Right, he said that 9.7" was the minimum size for usable tablet apps. Never said tablet apps couldn't be made smaller.
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
They have never releases an iPhone and iPhone mini at the same time so you can't say that Apple would break up sales for a launch of two new items within the same category. They announced the unit sales of the new iPad products released last Friday. That's all there is and it goes along with their history of announcing a new product's sales. There is precedent for two new iOS-based devices launched at the same time so claiming Apple is being sneaky or lying needs to be backed up with some evidence.
Seriously, why ignore Apple's long standing pattern of only releasing one iPhone and one iPad at a time? Surely you have to see how releasing two new products within a category is different and yet you want to force some fuzzy accounting onto something that has no history unless you look upon it with blinders.
On top of that, there is nothing that points to the iPad mini sales being a flop. Every string you pull implies it's the iPad (4) that is being pulled up by this simply announcement of the new iPad products launched this weekend.
I think you're being overly defensive here. I see you accusing others on the same thread of saying that "the iPad mini is a flop," or something similar and them denying it. Now you are accusing me of the same thing and I can't see anything I've written that implies this at all.
Only an idiot would think that the iPad mini is a "flop" or anything of the sort. I think you're seeing this desire in me, and in others when it doesn't actually exist. People are simply arguing that it's unusual for Apple not to break out the numbers of a just released, new product. It is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
I'm trying to imagine how analysts can put a negative spin on this.
Well, according to this report on the german web page n-tv.de IDC does so:
In the report they are claiming that Apple has just 50% of the tablet market and 14% of the smart phone market (world wide).
And they claim these numbers are not devices sold but devices in use.
However they do not link to the IDC report!
Find the report here via Google translate:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.n-tv.de%2Fwirtschaft%2FAndroid-rueckt-aufs-Ipad-vor-article7660456.html
I have no idea how they get those numbers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
If you're going to claim that they lied about 34 countries for the release weekend you'll have to back that up. But why would they do that? If they had so little stock or knew the demand for the US, or US and UK was enough to sell all the units they had then why would they add 32 to 33 more countries? It makes no sense.
They wouldn't have to technically "lie" for what I said to be true. They simply said that preorders were going to be available in those 34 countries. They were.
It could also simply be a result of how they have their ordering system set up. A glitch, as it were, wherein all the US preorders got to the post faster.
Originally Posted by island hermit
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
Right, it's presented as a 7.9" tablet, which tends to fall under the 'minimum size' when 10"/9.7" is considered that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
Despite your 5000+ posts, I can only conclude that you haven't been watching Apple very long. When have they EVER broken out individual product sales?
http://bgr.com/2012/09/24/iphone-5-launch-sales-2012/
Well, the question should be, how many of the iPad 4 sale is coming from a returned iPad 3? Given lot's of stores give 30-day return, and given Apple was selling around 5MM iPads a month last quarter, this has to be a concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Did SJ not say that 10" is the minimum size for tablet apps?
No.
And what other new iPhone was launched at the same time? None!
They have updated MBAs at the same time in the past. Since they have different display sizes find me where Apple broken down sales of 11" and 13" MBAs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Right, it's presented as a 7.9" tablet, which tends to fall under the 'minimum size' when 10"/9.7" is considered that.
SJ might still have thought that the 7.9" compromises a "great" tablet app... but he would probably have stated that he was talking about 7" tablets... not 7.9" which is a totally different ball of wax.
Now you're being dense, the exact quote is "10" screen is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps".
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
Now that those great tablet apps have been created, it turns out they work great on an 8" 4:3 tablet as well.