Apple doesn't make anything comparable to a generic white box so why do you insist on comparing it to an iMac? iMac is a consumer or pro-sumer machine if you are in the graphics business, but aside from perhaps the ease of upgradeability as the primary advantage, by the time you add in everything that comes standard on an iMac, your generic white box will be nearly the same price, a lot uglier and it's resale value almost nil. So that isn't much of a comparison either. If the white box is just a server then, again, what is the point in comparing to an iMac? The iMac is designed to be used and directly interacted with for several hours a day just like an iDevice, hence, they make them esthetically pleasing.
Ah, I believe we have convergence. The posts which started this discussion were making exactly the comparison you are poo-pooing ("iMac is a better deal than a white box!") , and my point was precisely that Apple is not a white box maker, but rather a consumer products maker, and would lose such a comparison (which is why Apple would never try to make it). In other words, we now agree.
The only professional use of their computers Apple wants to encourage is developing iApps. They seem to have gone out of their way to antagonize the video editing people (my wife is in the business, and from what I gather, the pro-video people are still pissed off), and Steve Jobs certainly antagonized Adobe (which is why Acrobat is a year behind on the mac, don't know about Photoshop). So, the Visual Studio vs Xcode question is somewhat relevant (though you can't really escape Apple's tools completely if you want to develop for iDevices; given the size of the Android market, not to mention Win 8, if Apple does not keep up in the developer space, that might mean trouble down the road.
Thank Apple for choosing to have an iron grip on the development process re Xcode (you don't need any helper apps for Mono Android). As for the $1000, that's for the "enterprise" license. If you are developing apps for profit, then $1000 is somewhere around 2 days of programmer time + overhead. If the tool makes you more efficient by 20%, you win big.
Thank Apple for choosing to have an iron grip on the development process re Xcode (you don't need any helper apps for Mono Android). As for the $1000, that's for the "enterprise" license. If you are developing apps for profit, then $1000 is somewhere around 2 days of programmer time + overhead. If the tool makes you more efficient by 20%, you win big.
principle->principal, unless you mean something else. Otherwise, this comment makes no sense at all -- google has its own development suite, which is actually free, and IS designed to et people to port their apps to Android. I doubt they need to any help from Xamarin, whose principal purpose is to provide better development tools, with positive effects on their bank accounts. They are not in the google orbit, and they are not in microsoft orbit -- Mono is strictly an open source implementation of the .Net standard, and as such is getting bupkes from MS (who would rather people used VS on Windows).
But since your principal purpose seems to be to trash talk, I hope someone else is following this discussion, since you are not.
The long time regulars here at AI usually don't bother pointing out typographical or grammatical errors of posters who are making reasonable replies. Perhaps because iOS auto correct is not as effective as it should be at times and errors are common, but your correction adds nothing to your argument.
I have certainly not studied this mono in depth but from a cursory review I am rather skeptical both in the price and lack of any advantage other than providing C#/.Net developers with a familiar environment, which doesn't apply to me in the least, so as I said earlier, it is completely useless as I have zero interest in .Net. The ownership of the company is also quite vague as well so I would not want to invest any effort in mastering the learning curve only to find that the entire platform might be abandoned without notice due to lack of official major OS publisher support. For the time being I will stick with Xcode as it is guaranteed to work with iOS which is the only target that I am addressing.
The long time regulars here at AI usually don't bother pointing out typographical or grammatical errors of posters who are making reasonable replies. Perhaps because iOS auto correct is not as effective as it should be at times and errors are common, but your correction adds nothing to your argument.
I'd say it takes away from any valid argument they might have had. It's a sign the poster has no valid argument when they are reduced to a simple grammatical error or make fun of a screen name.
PS: I also dislike when people use Crapple, Samesung, Micro$haft, etc. One should at least try to be original or clever if one is so inclined.
The long time regulars here at AI usually don't bother pointing out typographical or grammatical errors of posters who are making reasonable replies. Perhaps because iOS auto correct is not as effective as it should be at times and errors are common, but your correction adds nothing to your argument.
I have certainly not studied this mono in depth but from a cursory review I am rather skeptical both in the price and lack of any advantage other than providing C#/.Net developers with a familiar environment, which doesn't apply to me in the least, so as I said earlier, it is completely useless as I have zero interest in .Net. The ownership of the company is also quite vague as well so I would not want to invest any effort in mastering the learning curve only to find that the entire platform might be abandoned without notice due to lack of official major OS publisher support. For the time being I will stick with Xcode as it is guaranteed to work with iOS which is the only target that I am addressing.
I did not actually expect you to drop whatever you were doing and start programming in C#. If you remember that far back, the starting point of this particular fork in the discussion was that you claimed that VS/C# was useless to you, since it was only useful for .Net programming (as in, windows). I pointed out that this was mistaken, since C#, etc, is a useful tool for iDevices, which presumably you do care about. I believe I have by now proven my point. You have studied Mono not in depth, as you correctly point out, but for a few minutes, so you don't know what the advantages and disadvantages are. If you care, here is a discussion:
As for English errors, this is a pet peeve of mine (that people dumb themselves down to the level of their spelling correction engine, which thinks that both principal and principle are english words, among many other such things). Or maybe I am just a pedant.
I'd say it takes away from any valid argument they might have had. It's a sign the poster has no valid argument when they are reduced to a simple grammatical error or make fun of a screen name.
PS: I also dislike when people use Crapple, Samesung, Micro$haft, etc. One should at least try to be original or clever if one is so inclined.
Pointing out people's grammatical errors has a very clear agenda (I only speak for myself).
1. It impugns the mis-speaker's intelligence.
2. It impugns the mis-speaker's level of attention to detail.
Is it a low blow? Absolutely! If you look at the last N responses of my correspondent, you will see he was guilty of trying to land many such, and I just got fed up. I will probably be reincarnated as a cat.
Pointing out people's grammatical errors has a very clear agenda (I only speak for myself).
1. It impugns the mis-speaker's intelligence.
2. It impugns the mis-speaker's level of attention to detail.
Is it a low blow? Absolutely! If you look at the last N responses of my correspondent, you will see he was guilty of trying to land many such, and I just got fed up. I will probably be reincarnated as a cat.
1) No, it doesn't. Not proofreading does not mean one isn't intelligent. To even suggest such a thing clearly shows you don't understand what intelligence is.
2) I was going to say "Reincarnated as a cat? Why, do you like acting like a pussy?" but you probably would get offended by my clown humour.
3) I didn't proofread my post so any grammatical errors must mean I'm dum D-U-M dum.
As for English errors, this is a pet peeve of mine (that people dumb themselves down to the level of their spelling correction engine, which thinks that both principal and principle are english words, among many other such things). Or maybe I am just a pedant.
Thank you again for pointing that out. I will make a note. It is sort of a tradition around here, when you critically correct someone's English you invariably make a grammatical error of your own.
Thank you again for pointing that out. I will make a note. It is sort of a tradition around here, when you critically correct someone's English you invariably make a grammatical error of your own.
1) No, it doesn't. Not proofreading does not mean one isn't intelligent. To even suggest such a thing clearly shows you don't understand what intelligence is.
2) I was going to say "Reincarnated as a cat? Why, do you like acting like a pussy?" but you probably would get offended by my clown humour.
3) I didn't proofread my post so any grammatical errors must mean I'm dum D-U-M dum.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Just curious how do you provision a device in a third party platform like mono?
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }You might want to look here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6093303/iphone-apps-using-c-mono
(it's a little dated, but not too bad).
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Apple doesn't make anything comparable to a generic white box so why do you insist on comparing it to an iMac? iMac is a consumer or pro-sumer machine if you are in the graphics business, but aside from perhaps the ease of upgradeability as the primary advantage, by the time you add in everything that comes standard on an iMac, your generic white box will be nearly the same price, a lot uglier and it's resale value almost nil. So that isn't much of a comparison either. If the white box is just a server then, again, what is the point in comparing to an iMac? The iMac is designed to be used and directly interacted with for several hours a day just like an iDevice, hence, they make them esthetically pleasing.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Ah, I believe we have convergence. The posts which started this discussion were making exactly the comparison you are poo-pooing ("iMac is a better deal than a white box!") , and my point was precisely that Apple is not a white box maker, but rather a consumer products maker, and would lose such a comparison (which is why Apple would never try to make it). In other words, we now agree.
The only professional use of their computers Apple wants to encourage is developing iApps. They seem to have gone out of their way to antagonize the video editing people (my wife is in the business, and from what I gather, the pro-video people are still pissed off), and Steve Jobs certainly antagonized Adobe (which is why Acrobat is a year behind on the mac, don't know about Photoshop). So, the Visual Studio vs Xcode question is somewhat relevant (though you can't really escape Apple's tools completely if you want to develop for iDevices; given the size of the Android market, not to mention Win 8, if Apple does not keep up in the developer space, that might mean trouble down the road.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Just curious how do you provision a device in a third party platform like mono?
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You might want to look here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6093303/iphone-apps-using-c-mono
(it's a little dated, but not too bad).
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
So with all of your promotion of the platform, you have no actual first hand experience?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
So with all of your promotion of the platform, you have no actual first hand experience?
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }??? That's quite a leap of logic.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
So with all of your promotion of the platform, you have no actual first hand experience?
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
??? That's quite a leap of logic.
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Simple question. If you do not know how to provision a device under mono just say so.
Short answer: you need to use Xcode to use monotouch, so it is more or less the usual way.
Long answer: http://docs.xamarin.com/ios/guides/getting_started/device_provisioning
Do I get my consulting fee now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Simple question. If you do not know how to provision a device under mono just say so.
Short answer: you need to use Xcode to use monotouch, so it is more or less the usual way.
Long answer: http://docs.xamarin.com/ios/guides/getting_started/device_provisioning
Do I get my consulting fee now?
Ok got it. You have to use Apple's free Xcode (+$99 developer) to make the $1000 mono work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Ok got it. You have to use Apple's free Xcode (+$99 developer) to make the $1000 mono work.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Thank Apple for choosing to have an iron grip on the development process re Xcode (you don't need any helper apps for Mono Android). As for the $1000, that's for the "enterprise" license. If you are developing apps for profit, then $1000 is somewhere around 2 days of programmer time + overhead. If the tool makes you more efficient by 20%, you win big.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Ok got it. You have to use Apple's free Xcode (+$99 developer) to make the $1000 mono work.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Thank Apple for choosing to have an iron grip on the development process re Xcode (you don't need any helper apps for Mono Android). As for the $1000, that's for the "enterprise" license. If you are developing apps for profit, then $1000 is somewhere around 2 days of programmer time + overhead. If the tool makes you more efficient by 20%, you win big.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Interesting... As we peel back the layers we see that the principle purpose of this IDE is to recruit iOS programmers to port their apps to Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Interesting... As we peel back the layers we see that the principle purpose of this IDE is to recruit iOS programmers to port their apps to Android.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }principle->principal, unless you mean something else. Otherwise, this comment makes no sense at all -- google has its own development suite, which is actually free, and IS designed to et people to port their apps to Android. I doubt they need to any help from Xamarin, whose principal purpose is to provide better development tools, with positive effects on their bank accounts. They are not in the google orbit, and they are not in microsoft orbit -- Mono is strictly an open source implementation of the .Net standard, and as such is getting bupkes from MS (who would rather people used VS on Windows).
But since your principal purpose seems to be to trash talk, I hope someone else is following this discussion, since you are not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
principle->principal,
But since your principal purpose seems to be to trash talk, I hope someone else is following this discussion, since you are not.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
The long time regulars here at AI usually don't bother pointing out typographical or grammatical errors of posters who are making reasonable replies. Perhaps because iOS auto correct is not as effective as it should be at times and errors are common, but your correction adds nothing to your argument.
I have certainly not studied this mono in depth but from a cursory review I am rather skeptical both in the price and lack of any advantage other than providing C#/.Net developers with a familiar environment, which doesn't apply to me in the least, so as I said earlier, it is completely useless as I have zero interest in .Net. The ownership of the company is also quite vague as well so I would not want to invest any effort in mastering the learning curve only to find that the entire platform might be abandoned without notice due to lack of official major OS publisher support. For the time being I will stick with Xcode as it is guaranteed to work with iOS which is the only target that I am addressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I want this Mono as much as I want this Mono.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Ah, rapier-like! You must have gone to clown humor school.
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I'd say it takes away from any valid argument they might have had. It's a sign the poster has no valid argument when they are reduced to a simple grammatical error or make fun of a screen name.
PS: I also dislike when people use Crapple, Samesung, Micro$haft, etc. One should at least try to be original or clever if one is so inclined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The long time regulars here at AI usually don't bother pointing out typographical or grammatical errors of posters who are making reasonable replies. Perhaps because iOS auto correct is not as effective as it should be at times and errors are common, but your correction adds nothing to your argument.
I have certainly not studied this mono in depth but from a cursory review I am rather skeptical both in the price and lack of any advantage other than providing C#/.Net developers with a familiar environment, which doesn't apply to me in the least, so as I said earlier, it is completely useless as I have zero interest in .Net. The ownership of the company is also quite vague as well so I would not want to invest any effort in mastering the learning curve only to find that the entire platform might be abandoned without notice due to lack of official major OS publisher support. For the time being I will stick with Xcode as it is guaranteed to work with iOS which is the only target that I am addressing.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
I did not actually expect you to drop whatever you were doing and start programming in C#. If you remember that far back, the starting point of this particular fork in the discussion was that you claimed that VS/C# was useless to you, since it was only useful for .Net programming (as in, windows). I pointed out that this was mistaken, since C#, etc, is a useful tool for iDevices, which presumably you do care about. I believe I have by now proven my point. You have studied Mono not in depth, as you correctly point out, but for a few minutes, so you don't know what the advantages and disadvantages are. If you care, here is a discussion:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11225294/why-is-using-monotouch-for-iphone-development-not-recommended
As for English errors, this is a pet peeve of mine (that people dumb themselves down to the level of their spelling correction engine, which thinks that both principal and principle are english words, among many other such things). Or maybe I am just a pedant.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I'd say it takes away from any valid argument they might have had. It's a sign the poster has no valid argument when they are reduced to a simple grammatical error or make fun of a screen name.
PS: I also dislike when people use Crapple, Samesung, Micro$haft, etc. One should at least try to be original or clever if one is so inclined.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Pointing out people's grammatical errors has a very clear agenda (I only speak for myself).
1. It impugns the mis-speaker's intelligence.
2. It impugns the mis-speaker's level of attention to detail.
Is it a low blow? Absolutely! If you look at the last N responses of my correspondent, you will see he was guilty of trying to land many such, and I just got fed up. I will probably be reincarnated as a cat.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
1) No, it doesn't. Not proofreading does not mean one isn't intelligent. To even suggest such a thing clearly shows you don't understand what intelligence is.
2) I was going to say "Reincarnated as a cat? Why, do you like acting like a pussy?" but you probably would get offended by my
clownhumour.3) I didn't proofread my post so any grammatical errors must mean I'm dum D-U-M dum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
As for English errors, this is a pet peeve of mine (that people dumb themselves down to the level of their spelling correction engine, which thinks that both principal and principle are english words, among many other such things). Or maybe I am just a pedant.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Thank you again for pointing that out. I will make a note. It is sort of a tradition around here, when you critically correct someone's English you invariably make a grammatical error of your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Thank you again for pointing that out. I will make a note. It is sort of a tradition around here, when you critically correct someone's English you invariably make a grammatical error of your own.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Very true, mostly because one is aware of that last possibility, which messes with one.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) No, it doesn't. Not proofreading does not mean one isn't intelligent. To even suggest such a thing clearly shows you don't understand what intelligence is.
2) I was going to say "Reincarnated as a cat? Why, do you like acting like a pussy?" but you probably would get offended by my clown humour.
3) I didn't proofread my post so any grammatical errors must mean I'm dum D-U-M dum.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
1. You did not read my post.
2. I would think you were a moron.
3. See 1 and 2.
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