Apple's redesigned iMacs will go on sale this Friday

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  • Reply 61 of 121
    Am I the only one now on pins and needles as to when we can get a super thin 27" Thunderbolt display?

  • Reply 62 of 121
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by enjourni View Post



     


    Somebody at apple should be getting fired over this.

     

    You can fire me.
  • Reply 63 of 121
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,791member


    Imagine if you are a retailer with no iMacs to sell for two months.     This isn't about a 5 year olds patience it is about the survival of businesses that try to run independent of Apples distribution channel.    It is also about reasonable support if you suddenly find your self needing a new Mac.


     


    Imagine if you are a user that makes his living with his Mac.   All of a sudden on a whim you can't buy a replacement or an additional machine if you suddenly need one.   It isn't a comfortable feeling if you are tied to Mac OS/X and the iMac platform.   


     


    By the way the unavailability of the iMacs has been a lot longer that 4 weeks.   Further we have no idea what volumes they will ship in come Friday.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by allenbf View Post


    People whined about there being no iMacs.  Apple revealed a new design and said "Available November."  Now they're whining because it wasn't Nov 1, it's 4 whole weeks later!  This is unacceptable, Cook must be fired.


     


    Seriously, people?  What are we, toddlers?  My 5 year old has more patience than this.


  • Reply 64 of 121


    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

    Am I the only one now on pins and needles as to when we can get a super thin 27" Thunderbolt display?


     


    I don't think so.


     


    image

  • Reply 65 of 121
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,791member


    Why is 19 months not good, let me count the ways:



    1. USB3.   It is simply unacceptable that it took this long to get out USB 3 support.    Apples desktop machines where a none recommendation simply because of that.


    2. Hardware prices have fallen dramatically, making iMacs a very bad buy due to excessively high prices even for Apple.


    3. Speaking of hardware not only i s that value bad based on the iMacs price structure it is bad based on the technology or capability you are getting.    Over the course of 20 some odd months technology has continued to march forward while iMacs have been stagnate.


    4. Intel has had a new series of processors out for a significant amount of time.    These processors offer significant advantages for users that will not be buying machines with discrete GPU's.


    5. The current imacs have well known screen issues with reflectivity that many find objectionable.


     


    I'm sure others can add to the list, but you seem to forget who the customer is here.   The customers expectations are the only thing that is important.   Mis enough customers and their expectations and you loose business and suffer a drop in confidence.    Think not - look at how badly the attitude with respect to the Mac Pro has changed over the last year with people basically loosing all confidence in Apple and their ability to serve their needs.


     


    Maybe you missed something but Apple is now a two phone company.    I fully expect that the iPhone 4* frame will continue to be developed.


     


    What you don't understand is that people are disappointed with Apple ability to meet their desktop needs with a three product lineup.   In other words all Apple has to do is up date three machines in a responsible way serving their customers needs.   They have demonstrated clearly that they can't even do that with only three models to be concerned with.    If you don't see a problem with the way Apple has handled their desktop machines over the last 2-3 years then frankly you have low expectations or are extremely submissive.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigPhotos View Post



    I've been waiting to update my 21.5 inch iMac ---- but I am very sorry that the RAM is NOT available to users for replacement.  I am eager to see what price Apple will place on the 8 versus 16 GB RAM offerings.  Historically Apple has been outrageous for RAM pricing.  16 GB seems like overkill, I know, but who know what I will be using 3 years from now.  My first Apple (II plus) had 16k of RAM






    Get a Mac Pro; it is cheaper than an iMac, in your case.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saarek View Post



    A: the refresh was seriously delayed, 19 months is ridiculous. B: Apple has many manufacturing partners, other companies have hundreds of different lines being produced all at once. I know it may seem magical to you but Apple's partners could have continued building the old chasis with refreshed components and started winding down once the new iMac was ready to go. This was sloppy, plain and simple.




    1. Why is a 19 month upgrade wait ridiculous? Because it's not up to your expectation? That would NOT be a good foundation for a company to decide on their time schedule.



    2. Competition is getting nowhere with those different lines being produced all at once. It takes Apple a single phone, refreshed only once a year, to take the lions share of profit.



    3. iMac with incremental upgrade components. If history is any indication, that is not what Apple is about. You do not seem to understand how they work. Why is that? Is your focus more on other companies, rather than Apple? And if so, why are you trying to explain to people here why Apple is doing some stuff wrong if this is not your field of expertise?




  • Reply 66 of 121

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    It is a very significant screw up and frankly I'm surprised that people see it any other way.    honestly for many companies this would have lead to failure or at the very least very hard times, the fact that Apple can weather this just goes to show how insignificant the Mac line has become. 


     


    Something should be done at Apple with respect to this failure, it might not be hurting Apple but I can't imagine independent retailers liking this at all.   As you pointed out this isn't a delay of a week or two in stock but rather months.   Maybe this is why some of the reorganization has been happening at Apple.


     


    Sadly the bigger problem is who do you can.   The whole release management system for Macs is screwed up and points to a cultural problem embedded very deeply in Apple management structure.   This whole fiasco appear to the be the result of a total lack of confidence in their ability to release a new Mini independent of the iMac.    It is a mental health problem Apple really needs to get over.



    I find it very odd that people feel the need to defend Apple on this. There is no doubt this was a complete screw up. Delay the refresh so long that sales drop off because it no longer offered any sort of value for money compared to the spec and word gets around that a refresh is due.


     


    Announce a new product, but it isn't for sale and the old model is discontinued. You cannot build the new model so you have no idea on the true cost. I cannot think of any reason why you haven't been able to pre-order one of the new Macs over the last few weeks.


     


    All at a time when a new version of Windows is launched. I wonder how many people thought about switching to a Mac but were unable to purchase one and just went ahead with a new PC

  • Reply 67 of 121
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,614member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post


    I find it very odd that people feel the need to defend Apple on this. There is no doubt this was a complete screw up. Delay the refresh so long that sales drop off because it no longer offered any sort of value for money compared to the spec and word gets around that a refresh is due.


     


    Announce a new product, but it isn't for sale and the old model is discontinued. You cannot build the new model so you have no idea on the true cost. I cannot think of any reason why you haven't been able to pre-order one of the new Macs over the last few weeks.


     


    All at a time when a new version of Windows is launched. I wonder how many people thought about switching to a Mac but were unable to purchase one and just went ahead with a new PC





    I don't think Apple needs defending.  One advantage to having a boatload of cash to sit on is to ride out the rainy days.  No other PC company I think can really pull that off.  People that want an iMac I really doubt will say "Oh, iMac is delayed a month or two, okay I buy a Dell then."  Sure, Apple did lose some business but they are going to sell so many of these units that (like everything else whiners complain about) it will be forgotten in a month.  Case closed.

     


    What would you do?  Keep selling the old one knowing the new one is right around the corner and prepare for everyone to return their old "new" iMac??  I'm cutting Apple some slack on this.  They were in a position of being criticized regardless of what they do.

  • Reply 68 of 121


    I'm getting a 27 incher in December and then I'm going to throw my my Q6600 Vista machine off the roof and see if it can fly.

  • Reply 69 of 121

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post





    A noble attempt Solips, but nothing will will calm down the whiners and trolls b1tch!ng in this forum.

    Apple does a refresh - whiners cry that it's boring.

    Apple keeps selling old iMac until new one is ready - whiners cry "why buy when new one is right around the corner?"

    Apple sells new iMac before they are ready - whiners cry "See? Apple should never put out something not ready"

    Apple redesigns iMac so it's thinner, meaning lighter, meaning less shipping costs, meaning less fuel to transport, meaning less materials use to manufacture, meaning more green in the long run - and yet the whiners come yet again and cry... "But..but.. Why do I need thin and light on my desk??"

    Apple removes components prone to failure that the majority doesn't use. Whiners cry "But how can I burn a DVD so grandma can see pictures of the kids?"

    And of course the famous "I can't upgrade an iMac" cry-me-a-river story. Like they don't know how to use bathroom-shower suction cups and an extra five minutes to crack open an iMac, after preaching how technically inclined they are by building their own rigs at 1/3 the cost... *rolls eyes*

    Apple designs the iMac for the masses. Those 1% that Apple doesn't cater too either will never buy an iMac, whining simply to troll, or simply have that false-belief that Apple should design systems for them, not everyone else. Yeah, that'll be a real money-maker. /s

    I've cracked open my iMac simply out of curiosity. It's a no-brainer. Have never had the need to upgrade anything on it. What the crybabies here refuse to acknowledge is that by the time I'm (and most consumers in Apple's segment) ready to upgrade, tech will have advanced considerably so it's simply more cost-effective in the long run to buy a new machine.

    But no... Cry me something else kids.


     


    Yet here we have the longest whine of them all.  But then, that's basically what these forums are, aren't they?  Someone says something critical of Apple, often valid, and then the nut bags come out full force with multiple posts "whining" about others whining.  And this post is one of the worst offenders I've seen by far.  sflocal's answer is to never critique Apple and just take what they give you.  Sure, YOU don't use a DVD burner (neither do I) but why isn't it valid for those that do to say they wish it had one?  Form over function of a desktop is not a valid debate because YOU say so?


     


    And please tell us on what world is a $50 upgrade of RAM less cost effective than buying a whole new $1600+ machine?  Your advice to stop whining, get out some suction cups, crack the case and void your warranty is borderline lunacy.  Have you really drank that much Kool Aid?


     


    I've purchased many, many consumer electronics over my lifetime but none moreso than Apple.  But to many here, the $10,000+ I've spent on their products still does not allow me to have an opionion of their new releases other than "it's perfect!" And that, my friends, is truly insane.

  • Reply 70 of 121


    P.S.  To those that find nothing lacking in the new iMac's, that's great.  I have no problem with that whatsoever.  But please stop telling those that don't like some of the omissions that their concerns are somehow invalid.

  • Reply 71 of 121


    Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

    But please stop telling those that don't like some of the omissions that their concerns are somehow invalid.


     


    Depends on the concern.

  • Reply 72 of 121


    Do we have any confirmation of whether or not the fusion drive on the 27in model will be a 5400rpm or 7400rpm ATA? 

  • Reply 73 of 121
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,791member


    Not at all, I need to resist buying another computer for at least the middle of next year.   That is if I can, my MBP is in rough shape.   That MBP is in bad enough shape that a moment of weakness might lead to spending money I shouldn't.


     


    As to the Mini where have you been?    They castrated the latest release even more than int he past by deleting the GPU option.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    Yep.   I will have to resist another trip to the mall where the Apple store is.   I'm still frustrated with the iMac but this does look like a significantly improved model.   At least they didn't bone the machine like they did the Mini.




    Resistance is futile¡ Seriously, are you afraid on online order from Apple.com will give you a later delivery?



    What did they do to the Mini? The slower 5400 HDD?

    edit: never mind: they only allow the Fusion Drive in the $799 model. Maybe it doesn't matter if you get the 16GB RAM model, although that is an additional $300. So, point taken.

  • Reply 74 of 121

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


     


    What would you do?  Keep selling the old one knowing the new one is right around the corner and prepare for everyone to return their old "new" iMac??  I'm cutting Apple some slack on this.  They were in a position of being criticized regardless of what they do.



     


    Keep selling the old one - it is what they do for all the other Macs. This launch hasn't been done this way for the good of the consumer. The reason I think they announced a product before it was ready was just for the surprise element - before all the leaked pictures got out.

  • Reply 75 of 121
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,356member
    I can't wait for the new 27" to be released.......so I can pick up the previous version for a good price.
  • Reply 76 of 121
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Why are people so worked up about Apple not selling iMacs for the past month or so? What does it matter to you? How does it personally affect you? My guess is the number of people who absolutely had to have an iMac in November was quite small. I'd bet the number of sales lost to HP or Dell was very small (if any at all).
  • Reply 77 of 121
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,217moderator
    Apple on Tuesday announced that its all-new iMac desktop will launch this Friday, Nov. 30, meeting its deadline to launch before the end of the month.

    Saying "meeting its deadline" is like calling the 7.9" iPad a 7" tablet. They might as well have just said December for both iMacs.
    enjourni wrote:
    I've never seen a time were you literally cannot buy a particular apple product because of a dead spot in the release chain.

    Yeah, it's a strange thing to do for their best-selling desktop. I suspect it was a mix of having yield issues with their laminated displays and not wanting to push the launch into January because Haswell is right round the corner.

    They probably had more problems with the 27" but wanted to launch them around the same time to prevent people flocking to the 21.5". The 27" will likely follow shortly after.
    allenbf wrote:
    My 5 year old has more patience than this.

    That's just because he can't afford an iMac.
    enjourni wrote:
    Apple is throwing money out the window because they didn't make sure they had enough of the old iMac to cover them until the new one gets released.

    That's assuming they are buying PCs instead during that period. I reckon people will either wait or buy Minis or a laptop. The number of lost sales will probably not be that much.
  • Reply 78 of 121
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    And if they end up losing billions because they had to divert resources for other Apple products so they can pushed out new iMac at a higher cost you would still think they made the right choice? I certainly don't. Bottom line is the iMac accounts for very little of Apple's profit and the cost for the device makes it less likely to be someone might instantly decide to buy if they see online or in a store.

    Let's also remember that Apple doesn't build most of the components in the device. What if a deal with a vendor fell through or the vendor ended up shipping them inferior components. Would you want Apple to use these inferior parts to meet a self imposed deadline (a deadline they have made, BTW) or would you rather they did it right?


    In this case they have a fair amount of custom going going into the machine. If anything the displays probably tied them up. Fusion drives can't be ordered on the base 21.5", which likely carries a lot of volume due to its price. Ivy Bridge and most of those NVidia gpus have been out for a while at this point, so I find it unlikely that supplies are that constrained. I'm at least betting on it being one of the unique components.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    So Apple products were a **** up under Steve Jobs whenever they stopped selling an old products and had no new product yet to sell?

    I quite glad that Apple has done this with the iMac. They can't win can they? If they kept selling the old iMac until Friday then people complain about their iMac now being obsolete. They give you a release timeframe, cost, specs and stop the old model people complain that Apple doesn't know how to run a business.


    I think they didn't want to end up eating a huge number of returns.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    If I remember right, sales of the last G5 iMac actually increased in the 6 months between the announcement of the Intel transition and the release of the Core Duo iMac.


     


    But that was certainly a unique situation, caused by the paranoid.





    It's also possible that people needed to lock something in sooner rather than later without waiting for intel native applications. This happened to a degree with the G5 towers. The behavior seems a little odd to me with the imacs though.

  • Reply 79 of 121


    If an item is refreshed in 6 months, Apple gets slammed for instantly making the previous generation "obsolete."


     


    If an item is refreshed every year, Apple gets slammed for making the iSheep waste money by updating. Or, they get slammed because it's too long between updates.


     


    If an item is updated in 19 months, Apple gets slammed for taking too long between refreshes.


     


    I'm sure that if they provided free updates every 6 months on their products that people would still find something to gripe about. No matter what they do, someone will find cause to complain.

  • Reply 80 of 121

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    A: the refresh was seriously delayed, 19 months is ridiculous. B: Apple has many manufacturing partners, other companies have hundreds of different lines being produced all at once. I know it may seem magical to you but Apple's partners could have continued building the old chasis with refreshed components and started winding down once the new iMac was ready to go. This was sloppy, plain and simple.





    It was said one reason Apple pulled out of MacWorld Expo was the expectation of a new product or major upgrade to accompany every keynote. The anticipation was nice for the rest of us, but it had to be hell for Apple.


     


    I upgrade my Macs (Pro, iMac, Mini, Air, MacBook) about every five years on a rotating basis. I start with the most powerful example I can afford, and Apple's design and engineering carries it the rest of the way. Seldom does software or an accessory appear in the marketplace that one of them cannot handle. They get a ridiculous amount of work in my shop. I see nothing sloppy about taking 19 months to re-design an entire new chassis, re-tool an assembly line, implement new testing, procedures and training, work through the start-up punchlist and begin production of the precision instruments we are using.


     


    On an ending note, in Apple's long history they haven't "wound down" many products. Radical refreshes and abrupt dismissals, yes.

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