No reason why Apple couldn't lower RAM upgrade prices given their already high margins on the machines.
I see that comment often. Note that Apple's margins include all the upgrade prices as well. It is not for a base model.
In fact, if you think that Apple is raping you on upgraded components to make their margins then you have no choice but go acknowledge that their margins would be much lower without the upgrades.
Imagine of Apple wanted to maintain the same margins but wanted to sell you upgrades at cost. Imagine what that would do to the bare model so they could average the same across the board.
Apple has come down in prices for BTO upgrades over the years. Yes, it used to be WORSE than now! Maybe they will nudge down further over time, which would be a good thing. As others have cautioned, however, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Apple uses high quality RAM and they will ask you if you replaced/upgraded/installed more ram when you call them to diagnose a wonky machine. Often, it's the cheap ram that's the culprit.
I hear people complaining, but I have never bought a computer that I upgraded. I buy the most I can afford at the time, paying attention to RAM and HD size, in that order. If I keep the thing for 5 years, the extra cost is trivial over time and I have a machine that's faster, more useful, and has higher resale.
If you're opening your machine to upgrade hard drives and ram, you aren't being careful enough when you purchase. The other benefit is Apple will cover any BTO option under warranty.
I cant fathom why you think a lack of distinction between RAM in the RMBP and iMac is irrelevant for would be tinkers.
I'm wondering why I need to point out this is a tech site detailing the findings of a company who markets by showing DIYers how to disassemble their electronics thus making the distinction exceedingly relevant.
I can't understand why you cant fathom that .001% of all iMac buyers is quite irrelevant.
I can't understand why you cant fathom that .001% of all iMac buyers is quite irrelevant.
You should consider who iFixit's target audience is before posting. Based on your comment they shouldn't offer any tear downs, not parts for sale in assisting upgrades and repairs, and sites like AI shouldn't bother posting it, nor should you bother commenting on it because you think it's irrelevant whether the RAM is or is not soldered to the motherboard.
I'm not sure, but it probably never leaves its mom's basement.
I think it's quite slick looking. It's almost like the evolution of the PC in that it is moving from an exoskeleton to a spine where the motherboard makes up the central nervous system. It's not something I would buy today because I have no interest in running Windows as my primary machine but I think the design is very clever and very slick. If Apple made an xMac that followed that same look I think I we'd be in awe of it.
You should consider who iFixit's target audience is before posting. Based on your comment they shouldn't offer any tear downs, not parts for sale in assisting upgrades and repairs, and sites like AI shouldn't bother posting it, nor should you bother commenting on it because you think it's irrelevant whether the RAM is or is not soldered to the motherboard.
You should consider that iFixit gave the 21.5 iMac a 3 out of 10 for repairability.
[... and I'd like to know how the f*ck the fact that it's iFixit makes my point any less relevant]
You should consider that iFixit gave the 21.5 iMac a 3 out of 10 for repairability.
[... and I'd like to know how the f*ck the fact that iFixit makes my point any less relevant]
Hermit, tell me, what would you realistically be changing on your Mac? You won't upgrade the screen or wifi chip, that's hardly if ever done by anyone. The RAM and HD say you? Well, as far as the RAM goes, so far as I know, Ivy Bridge maxes out at 32gbs and Apple does allow you to upgrade to 32gb on the 27, and presumably will allow it once there are 16gb modules on the 21, so if you can foresee needing that in the future, just max it out when you buy and be done with it, no tinkering needed. Oh, but Apple's prices are too high? Well then you have a problem with their pricing structure not the design of the machine.
So really, the complaints are about the HDs? With Thunderbolt's speed, external drives can put that one to rest. Just tape it to the back of the machine, it'll probably still be less bulky than the older generations, that the HD replacement looks all that difficult in the first place.
This is dumb. They are giving an accurate assessment of repairability. Not commenting if you should buy the device or not. Personally as a gamer stuff like that matters, but I can understand why it doesn't for most people. This sorta auto reaction to a perceived negative sleight on these forums gives me a good chuckle.
I think it's quite slick looking. It's almost like the evolution of the PC in that it is moving from an exoskeleton to a spine where the motherboard makes up the central nervous system. It's not something I would buy today because I have no interest in running Windows as my primary machine but I think the design is very clever and very slick. If Apple made an xMac that followed that same look I think I we'd be in awe of it.
There is something interesting about it. It looks like it could be out of Tron, which could be good or bad. It might be overly complicated, to the point of possibly risking reliability.
I wonder how many they sell. As cases go, it's not that cheap.
You should consider that iFixit gave the 21.5 iMac a 3 out of 10 for repairability.
I think it's pretty clear the rating is needlessly harsh. OWC showed the double sided tape is easily defeated without needing a heat gun or a special tool, and I'm certain the material is easily replaceable should it be damaged in the process. The biggest down side in my mind is the possibility of losing warranty for doing so. Legally in the US, warranty can't be denied unless your repair is what resulted in failure, but in practice, it's not a fight worth taking up.
You should consider that iFixit gave the 21.5 iMac a 3 out of 10 for repairability.
[... and I'd like to know how the f*ck the fact that iFixit makes my point any less relevant]
The very fact that you are on this site arguing about iFixit is proof that it is highly relevant if the RAM (or any other component) is soldered to the motherboard or can use 3rd-party components if the customer wishes to take his machine apart. The display is harder to remove since it uses adhesive instead of magnets but that doesn't mean that the RAM is not capable of being accessed and removed by those who would seek out iFixit.
Let's also note they gave it a 3 out of 10. Now let's compare that to the RMBP where they wrote, "MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair) [...] As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade." Now which one of these machines has RAM that can be upgraded with 3rd-party RAM? Hint: there is one correct answer.
[...] If you're opening your machine to upgrade hard drives and ram, you aren't being careful enough when you purchase.
Or your hard drive failed two months after the AppleCare expired.
For me the benefit is not so much the money saved through DIY as the TIME. The lazy and "oh-so-WEALTHY" contributors to this thread don't factor in the cost of taking that machine to a service facility and waiting two or three days to get it back.
I love iFixit and really appreciate their work. Their guides have saved me from running into hidden whoopsies when performing routine repairs.
As for iFixit selling parts, thank dog they do. When I couldn't find an optical drive for a particular MacBook Pro anywhere at any price, iFixit came through with stock.
I think it's pretty clear the rating is needlessly harsh. OWC showed the double sided tape is easily defeated without needing a heat gun or a special tool, and I'm certain the material is easily replaceable should it be damaged in the process. The biggest down side in my mind is the possibility of losing warranty for doing so. Legally in the US, warranty can't be denied unless your repair is what resulted in failure, but in practice, it's not a fight worth taking up.
The very fact that you are on this site arguing about iFixit is proof that it is highly relevant if the RAM (or any other component) is soldered to the motherboard or can use 3rd-party components if the customer wishes to take his machine apart. The display is harder to remove since it uses adhesive instead of magnets but that doesn't mean that the RAM is not capable of being accessed and removed by those who would seek out iFixit.
Let's also note they gave it a 3 out of 10. Now let's compare that to the RMBP where they wrote, "MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair) [...] As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade." Now which one of these machines has RAM that can be upgraded with 3rd-party RAM? Hint: there is one correct answer.
Hermit, tell me, what would you realistically be changing on your Mac? You won't upgrade the screen or wifi chip, that's hardly if ever done by anyone. The RAM and HD say you? Well, as far as the RAM goes, so far as I know, Ivy Bridge maxes out at 32gbs and Apple does allow you to upgrade to 32gb on the 27, and presumably will allow it once there are 16gb modules on the 21, so if you can foresee needing that in the future, just max it out when you buy and be done with it, no tinkering needed. Oh, but Apple's prices are too high? Well then you have a problem with their pricing structure not the design of the machine.
So really, the complaints are about the HDs? With Thunderbolt's speed, external drives can put that one to rest. Just tape it to the back of the machine, it'll probably still be less bulky than the older generations, that the HD replacement looks all that difficult in the first place.
Hell, I used to change almost everything... but I sure as hell won't be pulling off my display, my motherboard and voiding my warranty just to upgrade the ram. Like you say, I can just order it that way.
Compare Apples to Apples please. Who is the RAM manufacturer that Apple uses? How much does that part cost via third-parties? Or perhaps you're saying you'd like to see Apple use OWC as their RAM provider? Surely there are reasons they use other brand names?
Have you ever gone to an automobile dealer's parts store? I can remember having to buy a rear tail light assembly. Cost from dealer was $295.00. Same assembly from a NAPA store or from an internet parts store was just about half of that.
The fact is that Apple uses and sells the same memory modules that you and I can buy from Crucial and OWC. Some folks may feel more comfortable about buying extra memory from Apple and have them install it but don't kid yourself into thinking Apple memory is anything special. Of all the bad memory I have had over the years nearly all of it was Apple RAM. (not made by them but installed with computer). They could be more generous with RAM upgrade prices and it wouldn't hurt their profits at all. Few if any bother upgrading by BTO due to their extremely high prices. More RAM would also tend to make happier customers since they would get a better experience.
Comments
Built to order items are often marked US.
I see that comment often. Note that Apple's margins include all the upgrade prices as well. It is not for a base model.
In fact, if you think that Apple is raping you on upgraded components to make their margins then you have no choice but go acknowledge that their margins would be much lower without the upgrades.
Imagine of Apple wanted to maintain the same margins but wanted to sell you upgrades at cost. Imagine what that would do to the bare model so they could average the same across the board.
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect
Built to order items are often marked US.
But this is the base model.
Wonder where they're assembling them.
Apple has come down in prices for BTO upgrades over the years. Yes, it used to be WORSE than now! Maybe they will nudge down further over time, which would be a good thing. As others have cautioned, however, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Apple uses high quality RAM and they will ask you if you replaced/upgraded/installed more ram when you call them to diagnose a wonky machine. Often, it's the cheap ram that's the culprit.
I hear people complaining, but I have never bought a computer that I upgraded. I buy the most I can afford at the time, paying attention to RAM and HD size, in that order. If I keep the thing for 5 years, the extra cost is trivial over time and I have a machine that's faster, more useful, and has higher resale.
If you're opening your machine to upgrade hard drives and ram, you aren't being careful enough when you purchase. The other benefit is Apple will cover any BTO option under warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran
The heck is THIS thing?
I'm not sure, but it probably never leaves its mom's basement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I cant fathom why you think a lack of distinction between RAM in the RMBP and iMac is irrelevant for would be tinkers.
I'm wondering why I need to point out this is a tech site detailing the findings of a company who markets by showing DIYers how to disassemble their electronics thus making the distinction exceedingly relevant.
I can't understand why you cant fathom that .001% of all iMac buyers is quite irrelevant.
I could live with that, but when the dealership told me the windscreen wasn't held in place by magnets....
Screw you Porsche! If I can't pop out the windscreen with a coin then no deal!
You should consider who iFixit's target audience is before posting. Based on your comment they shouldn't offer any tear downs, not parts for sale in assisting upgrades and repairs, and sites like AI shouldn't bother posting it, nor should you bother commenting on it because you think it's irrelevant whether the RAM is or is not soldered to the motherboard.
I think it's quite slick looking. It's almost like the evolution of the PC in that it is moving from an exoskeleton to a spine where the motherboard makes up the central nervous system. It's not something I would buy today because I have no interest in running Windows as my primary machine but I think the design is very clever and very slick. If Apple made an xMac that followed that same look I think I we'd be in awe of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You should consider who iFixit's target audience is before posting. Based on your comment they shouldn't offer any tear downs, not parts for sale in assisting upgrades and repairs, and sites like AI shouldn't bother posting it, nor should you bother commenting on it because you think it's irrelevant whether the RAM is or is not soldered to the motherboard.
You should consider that iFixit gave the 21.5 iMac a 3 out of 10 for repairability.
[... and I'd like to know how the f*ck the fact that it's iFixit makes my point any less relevant]
Hermit, tell me, what would you realistically be changing on your Mac? You won't upgrade the screen or wifi chip, that's hardly if ever done by anyone. The RAM and HD say you? Well, as far as the RAM goes, so far as I know, Ivy Bridge maxes out at 32gbs and Apple does allow you to upgrade to 32gb on the 27, and presumably will allow it once there are 16gb modules on the 21, so if you can foresee needing that in the future, just max it out when you buy and be done with it, no tinkering needed. Oh, but Apple's prices are too high? Well then you have a problem with their pricing structure not the design of the machine.
So really, the complaints are about the HDs? With Thunderbolt's speed, external drives can put that one to rest. Just tape it to the back of the machine, it'll probably still be less bulky than the older generations, that the HD replacement looks all that difficult in the first place.
There is something interesting about it. It looks like it could be out of Tron, which could be good or bad. It might be overly complicated, to the point of possibly risking reliability.
I wonder how many they sell. As cases go, it's not that cheap.
I think it's pretty clear the rating is needlessly harsh. OWC showed the double sided tape is easily defeated without needing a heat gun or a special tool, and I'm certain the material is easily replaceable should it be damaged in the process. The biggest down side in my mind is the possibility of losing warranty for doing so. Legally in the US, warranty can't be denied unless your repair is what resulted in failure, but in practice, it's not a fight worth taking up.
The very fact that you are on this site arguing about iFixit is proof that it is highly relevant if the RAM (or any other component) is soldered to the motherboard or can use 3rd-party components if the customer wishes to take his machine apart. The display is harder to remove since it uses adhesive instead of magnets but that doesn't mean that the RAM is not capable of being accessed and removed by those who would seek out iFixit.
Let's also note they gave it a 3 out of 10. Now let's compare that to the RMBP where they wrote, "MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair) [...] As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade." Now which one of these machines has RAM that can be upgraded with 3rd-party RAM? Hint: there is one correct answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw
[...] If you're opening your machine to upgrade hard drives and ram, you aren't being careful enough when you purchase.
Or your hard drive failed two months after the AppleCare expired.
For me the benefit is not so much the money saved through DIY as the TIME. The lazy and "oh-so-WEALTHY" contributors to this thread don't factor in the cost of taking that machine to a service facility and waiting two or three days to get it back.
I love iFixit and really appreciate their work. Their guides have saved me from running into hidden whoopsies when performing routine repairs.
As for iFixit selling parts, thank dog they do. When I couldn't find an optical drive for a particular MacBook Pro anywhere at any price, iFixit came through with stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I think it's pretty clear the rating is needlessly harsh. OWC showed the double sided tape is easily defeated without needing a heat gun or a special tool, and I'm certain the material is easily replaceable should it be damaged in the process. The biggest down side in my mind is the possibility of losing warranty for doing so. Legally in the US, warranty can't be denied unless your repair is what resulted in failure, but in practice, it's not a fight worth taking up.
Oh great, now iFixit is irrelevant...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The very fact that you are on this site arguing about iFixit is proof that it is highly relevant if the RAM (or any other component) is soldered to the motherboard or can use 3rd-party components if the customer wishes to take his machine apart. The display is harder to remove since it uses adhesive instead of magnets but that doesn't mean that the RAM is not capable of being accessed and removed by those who would seek out iFixit.
Let's also note they gave it a 3 out of 10. Now let's compare that to the RMBP where they wrote, "MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair) [...] As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade." Now which one of these machines has RAM that can be upgraded with 3rd-party RAM? Hint: there is one correct answer.
Yes... all .001% of those customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
Hermit, tell me, what would you realistically be changing on your Mac? You won't upgrade the screen or wifi chip, that's hardly if ever done by anyone. The RAM and HD say you? Well, as far as the RAM goes, so far as I know, Ivy Bridge maxes out at 32gbs and Apple does allow you to upgrade to 32gb on the 27, and presumably will allow it once there are 16gb modules on the 21, so if you can foresee needing that in the future, just max it out when you buy and be done with it, no tinkering needed. Oh, but Apple's prices are too high? Well then you have a problem with their pricing structure not the design of the machine.
So really, the complaints are about the HDs? With Thunderbolt's speed, external drives can put that one to rest. Just tape it to the back of the machine, it'll probably still be less bulky than the older generations, that the HD replacement looks all that difficult in the first place.
Hell, I used to change almost everything... but I sure as hell won't be pulling off my display, my motherboard and voiding my warranty just to upgrade the ram. Like you say, I can just order it that way.
This is aint your Grandpa's Apple...
That does appear to be the case. I was thinking the microarchitecture could handle 64GB (or even 128GB) if the RAM modules could support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
Compare Apples to Apples please. Who is the RAM manufacturer that Apple uses? How much does that part cost via third-parties? Or perhaps you're saying you'd like to see Apple use OWC as their RAM provider? Surely there are reasons they use other brand names?
Have you ever gone to an automobile dealer's parts store? I can remember having to buy a rear tail light assembly. Cost from dealer was $295.00. Same assembly from a NAPA store or from an internet parts store was just about half of that.
The fact is that Apple uses and sells the same memory modules that you and I can buy from Crucial and OWC. Some folks may feel more comfortable about buying extra memory from Apple and have them install it but don't kid yourself into thinking Apple memory is anything special. Of all the bad memory I have had over the years nearly all of it was Apple RAM. (not made by them but installed with computer). They could be more generous with RAM upgrade prices and it wouldn't hurt their profits at all. Few if any bother upgrading by BTO due to their extremely high prices. More RAM would also tend to make happier customers since they would get a better experience.