Don't forget that Apple will release it, whatever it is. It will sell like crazy. A year later everyone else has copied it and all the innovation Apple has done on it will be deemed as "obvious" and "stealing". Apple will be the devil when it tries to protect their innovations (whatever they might be) and will be accused of "hindering" innovation ("innovate, don't litigate!). Look for all the Smart TV Implementations to suddenly change direction to include all this "obvious" innovation. Including Google who will do a 180 and reboot their Google TV in about a year to emerge a crappy copy of whatever Apple has done and then they will give the software away to anyone who would want it (including revenue sharing) and then iterate the hell out of it.
I would say that it's about a 99% chance of the above.
LOL, is truth. Though, if they do make a TV, their biggest innovation will be getting all the parts of the puzzle to work together, i.e. their biggest innovation will be making it all look so simple.
I sure as hell don't want that. You can keep that crap!
When I watch TV, I'm there to enjoy it with my wife and my son. I don't want some ticker running across the screen or to be chatting with other people while I'm watching the program -- it's a stupid distraction. My wife is right there, I'll chat and laugh with her as we watch the Big Bang Theory or one of our other favorite programs. We don't see each other all day, so our time to bond is at home at the dinner table, and sitting on the couch/snuggling in bed watching our favorite programs.
I guess my point is, everything doesn't have to be "social".
I second this notion...but replace "son" with cats.
I'm one that just wants something that I can veg-out on. I don't need Facebook, Email, Twitter, etc. on my TV. That's what the iPad is for. The suppliment to watching TV. Now-a-days, it's me, my girlfriend, the cats, TV and our iPads.
But, here's my wish-list of things they could add should it be a full TV set they introduce (but not my preference):
1. Facetime on the TV.
2. TV Network Apps with in-App purchases of additional Channels at Monthly rates. (i.e. NBC is a free to watch but Bravo costs 0.99$/mo.)
3. Control over every INPUT from the ATV UI.
4. DVR UI
About this debate between a display or a STB...my long-winded option
Personally, I see it as a STB. The experts have already shown enough proof the TV market is really not a big enough market for Apple to really make sweeping changes in. A full monitor is pointless if you still have to plug-in components (I.e. cable, HT audio, BD, etc...) and for Apple to spend R&D on integrating all those technologies into a device that would make a marginal impact on the TV market would be a waste of time and resources.
Where Apple will tackle this market it in control. My crappy Motorola STB cable remote already has the capability to control all my HT devices. If Apple could do this, they wouldn't need a full Apple 42"-55" TV. If they could just reinvent the ATV home screen to become more customized to your existing components...and have the ability to fully utilize their functionalities, then you'd have something. And at $99, you'd have a totally new experience controlled entirely from the ATV. You need to calibrate your monitor, ATV does it. You want to play a BD? There an app for that. Watch live or recorded TV? Another home screen App. The Interface is what will make the new ATV popular. It will make the TV experience easier.
What is the future I'd Apps for ATV? I don't know but I'm thinking it will be as paid subscriptions. You want NBC? Their App could be free for basic over-air programming, but cost you $X.99/mo. per extra channel, like app add-ons. Frankly, I'm not sure why this idea hasn't already been initiated. I guess that might be closer to the equivalent of Hulu+. However, what really pisses me off about Hulu is that current episodes have a time window of viewing before they become "expired" and don't return until who-knows-when, prolly after the BD comes out for the season. That's the one drawback to Hulu, and that the entire catalog of each network is not available on Hulu. They have BBC America, but not Doctor Who, or Top Gear or any other top show they have. Hulu is nice for $8/mo. But has drawbacks.
Still not a 1:1 to traditional cable. Apple needs to rival cable in some way to be viable at all in this market. They can't do it on hardware alone, or just in software and/or services. And hardware would be pointless, since price will drive sales 99.99% of the time in this market. so why not tackle the software/UI and services? And sell millions more $99 STBs instead? You'd get a lot more users on a cheap box with great services and UI than an expensive panel that may look and function great, but has no user base because its out of most user's price point.
and here's something i incorrectly posted on another thread that's more relevant to this thread:
That being said. I think the future of consumer computing (at least for multi-user households) will be a device that marries the Mac Mini with the Apple TV and the Airport Extreme, all in one device. This could be accessed by the TV, a laptop or a dumb terminal, and/or an iDevice. More and More people are moving way from the home office an into other parts of the house with computers, making the traditional desk less and less relevant and desirable. The future is going to be more of a home server that stores all your date (along with iCloud, of course) but can be accessed remotely from any device in Apple's ecosystem.
Many might say this is already achievable in the Mac Mini server...I say not quite. It's still another OSX device you have to manage. My vision is much simpler. More like a iPad server that much more powerful, but scores easier to use. It's UI could adapt to whatever device you're accessing it from, unlike the Mac Mini that's strictly OSX-based. Why not create a device that works with your devices, rather than the devices having to conform to it? I don't see it as another computer to manage, more so a storage and access point from multiple sources and adapts to those UI's.
For the general public, most people use computers for 3 primary uses:
Content consumption and Entertainment (i.e. games, music, video)
Internet, email and communications (i.e. mail, messages, safari, Facetime)
Content creation (i.e. iWork suite)
Apple already has all the software they need to achieve these things. The problem is that all three have an ideal UI/iDevice that work with them best.
Content consumption = iDevice or TV
Internet, Email & Communicaitons = iDevice/Laptop
Content Creation = Laptop/Desktop
So IMO, seeing as there is not longer a need for a single device to do all these basic things most people use a computer for, why not create a device that works with all your different UI's but puts the brains of it all in a central location? Let's take home sharing to the next level.
That makes the most sense to me as well. The TV itself is not very high margin, so it doesn't really make sense for Apple to try and compete there. I know I wouldn't pay ~$1500 for a 50" iTV. Now if they basically upgraded the Apple TV so it had those features, I'd gladly pay $300 or $400 for it. My feeling is that that's the way they're going to go.
"social" networks is the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having 1000 fake friends that are projecting a false image of themselves.
Agree. And while his "hint" doesn't prove anything, it's more than Apple has ever given us on the theory of Apple TV.
I would say that his comment is of the vein of his post PC talk. I think that like that TV is moving from THE entertainment piece to part of a fluid and flowing system. Look at what they have done with AirPlay etc to see other clues. Even the recent changes in iTunes 11 could be steps in the system
But the system does require Apple to create a cable company, even a deal with a cable company, a real TV etc. despite the rumors. Heck it doesn't require apple to create Netflix or pandora either.
IMO this TV will be the test by which we know if Apple is on the down-swing now instead of still firing on all cylinders. If upon arriving it has either:
- multiple speakers that you can attach - a separate amplifier - a cable box
LOL, is truth. Though, if they do make a TV, their biggest innovation will be getting all the parts of the puzzle to work together, i.e. their biggest innovation will be making it all look so simple.
They can't get Apple TV to look simple can't see how that'll change with a full blown set.
Indeed. But the Apple TV as is most likely a VERY low profit maker for them. A TV would likely end up making them more money than 2 or 3 Apple TVs, I'd bet. And if they can offer a basic TV subscription, as an option, the consumer may have a second choice at checkout, to get the TV for an entry price they may be far more willing to entertain. So, you'd pay $1,299 (perhaps more) to get the TV with no contract, and total freedom, or you'd pay $499 and you'd get the TV with a subscription contract - the option the vast majority of iTV consumers would choose.
That's a viable go to market strategy, well, the bones of one, provided they can convince the content makers to play ball, which is a tall order.
you can be sure since Apple has been looking into building a TV,
Could you post a copy of the memo you received confirming that they are definitely building a TV set.
they are studying the current models, in fact, the very idea of them making a TV most likely even came about because they are well aware the existing market sucks.
They doesn't equal Tim. He's not a designer or engineer so he has no business need to be studying them and he might in fact not have a TV for personal viewing.
And the existing market sucking is more about the content than the TVs.
Seems rather clear that you think they should make a TV so you are reading everything as proof you are right. But your wishes don't make it true.
"social" networks is the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having 1000 fake friends that are projecting a false image of themselves.
Meanwhile, 100 years ago:
"telephone" networks are the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having an address book full of moochers that only call you when they want something.
The don't need to rely on Loewe (don't take me wrong, cause I like their design) since they do have Johnny Yves on board. He will do the trick, there is no doubt.
How does that comment indicate Apple is planning a television set?
It doesn't. It's all speculation. One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
So all those people buying all those Smart TV's don't want them?
Yep, all I want is a dumb screen to plug stuff into, I don't even want to pay for built in tuner or speakers.
My main TV has an Apple TV, a Raspberry Pi, a Sony Blueray player, an X-box and a dual tuner STB with hard drive plugged in and is plugged into a 5.1 channel Pioneer amp.
I pretty much have everything on my network and the Internet covered.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Jobs told biographer Walter Isaacson that he had "finally cracked" the secret to building a television.
"It will have the simplest user interface you could imagine," Jobs said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
This reveal is sooo un-Steve like ....
Yeah, riiiiight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonteponte
Don't forget that Apple will release it, whatever it is. It will sell like crazy. A year later everyone else has copied it and all the innovation Apple has done on it will be deemed as "obvious" and "stealing". Apple will be the devil when it tries to protect their innovations (whatever they might be) and will be accused of "hindering" innovation ("innovate, don't litigate!). Look for all the Smart TV Implementations to suddenly change direction to include all this "obvious" innovation. Including Google who will do a 180 and reboot their Google TV in about a year to emerge a crappy copy of whatever Apple has done and then they will give the software away to anyone who would want it (including revenue sharing) and then iterate the hell out of it.
I would say that it's about a 99% chance of the above.
LOL, is truth. Though, if they do make a TV, their biggest innovation will be getting all the parts of the puzzle to work together, i.e. their biggest innovation will be making it all look so simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
I sure as hell don't want that. You can keep that crap!
When I watch TV, I'm there to enjoy it with my wife and my son. I don't want some ticker running across the screen or to be chatting with other people while I'm watching the program -- it's a stupid distraction. My wife is right there, I'll chat and laugh with her as we watch the Big Bang Theory or one of our other favorite programs. We don't see each other all day, so our time to bond is at home at the dinner table, and sitting on the couch/snuggling in bed watching our favorite programs.
I guess my point is, everything doesn't have to be "social".
I second this notion...but replace "son" with cats.
I'm one that just wants something that I can veg-out on. I don't need Facebook, Email, Twitter, etc. on my TV. That's what the iPad is for. The suppliment to watching TV. Now-a-days, it's me, my girlfriend, the cats, TV and our iPads.
But, here's my wish-list of things they could add should it be a full TV set they introduce (but not my preference):
1. Facetime on the TV.
2. TV Network Apps with in-App purchases of additional Channels at Monthly rates. (i.e. NBC is a free to watch but Bravo costs 0.99$/mo.)
3. Control over every INPUT from the ATV UI.
4. DVR UI
About this debate between a display or a STB...my long-winded option
Personally, I see it as a STB. The experts have already shown enough proof the TV market is really not a big enough market for Apple to really make sweeping changes in. A full monitor is pointless if you still have to plug-in components (I.e. cable, HT audio, BD, etc...) and for Apple to spend R&D on integrating all those technologies into a device that would make a marginal impact on the TV market would be a waste of time and resources.
Where Apple will tackle this market it in control. My crappy Motorola STB cable remote already has the capability to control all my HT devices. If Apple could do this, they wouldn't need a full Apple 42"-55" TV. If they could just reinvent the ATV home screen to become more customized to your existing components...and have the ability to fully utilize their functionalities, then you'd have something. And at $99, you'd have a totally new experience controlled entirely from the ATV. You need to calibrate your monitor, ATV does it. You want to play a BD? There an app for that. Watch live or recorded TV? Another home screen App. The Interface is what will make the new ATV popular. It will make the TV experience easier.
What is the future I'd Apps for ATV? I don't know but I'm thinking it will be as paid subscriptions. You want NBC? Their App could be free for basic over-air programming, but cost you $X.99/mo. per extra channel, like app add-ons. Frankly, I'm not sure why this idea hasn't already been initiated. I guess that might be closer to the equivalent of Hulu+. However, what really pisses me off about Hulu is that current episodes have a time window of viewing before they become "expired" and don't return until who-knows-when, prolly after the BD comes out for the season. That's the one drawback to Hulu, and that the entire catalog of each network is not available on Hulu. They have BBC America, but not Doctor Who, or Top Gear or any other top show they have. Hulu is nice for $8/mo. But has drawbacks.
Still not a 1:1 to traditional cable. Apple needs to rival cable in some way to be viable at all in this market. They can't do it on hardware alone, or just in software and/or services. And hardware would be pointless, since price will drive sales 99.99% of the time in this market. so why not tackle the software/UI and services? And sell millions more $99 STBs instead? You'd get a lot more users on a cheap box with great services and UI than an expensive panel that may look and function great, but has no user base because its out of most user's price point.
and here's something i incorrectly posted on another thread that's more relevant to this thread:
That being said. I think the future of consumer computing (at least for multi-user households) will be a device that marries the Mac Mini with the Apple TV and the Airport Extreme, all in one device. This could be accessed by the TV, a laptop or a dumb terminal, and/or an iDevice. More and More people are moving way from the home office an into other parts of the house with computers, making the traditional desk less and less relevant and desirable. The future is going to be more of a home server that stores all your date (along with iCloud, of course) but can be accessed remotely from any device in Apple's ecosystem.
Many might say this is already achievable in the Mac Mini server...I say not quite. It's still another OSX device you have to manage. My vision is much simpler. More like a iPad server that much more powerful, but scores easier to use. It's UI could adapt to whatever device you're accessing it from, unlike the Mac Mini that's strictly OSX-based. Why not create a device that works with your devices, rather than the devices having to conform to it? I don't see it as another computer to manage, more so a storage and access point from multiple sources and adapts to those UI's.
For the general public, most people use computers for 3 primary uses:
Content consumption and Entertainment (i.e. games, music, video)
Internet, email and communications (i.e. mail, messages, safari, Facetime)
Content creation (i.e. iWork suite)
Apple already has all the software they need to achieve these things. The problem is that all three have an ideal UI/iDevice that work with them best.
Content consumption = iDevice or TV
Internet, Email & Communicaitons = iDevice/Laptop
Content Creation = Laptop/Desktop
So IMO, seeing as there is not longer a need for a single device to do all these basic things most people use a computer for, why not create a device that works with all your different UI's but puts the brains of it all in a central location? Let's take home sharing to the next level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Just waiting on Tallest Skil to drop in on this subject....
LOL, couldn't help it.
> Apple is d00med! Next they'll be making blenders and surfboards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker
That makes the most sense to me as well. The TV itself is not very high margin, so it doesn't really make sense for Apple to try and compete there.
Bla, bla, bla, they'll end up making a TV and you'll buy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I think selling a TV set between $1500 and $2000 Is a little ambitious.
Yeah, I think his figures are wrong.
Hardware with low margins is not the Apple way.
"social" networks is the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having 1000 fake friends that are projecting a false image of themselves.
I would say that his comment is of the vein of his post PC talk. I think that like that TV is moving from THE entertainment piece to part of a fluid and flowing system. Look at what they have done with AirPlay etc to see other clues. Even the recent changes in iTunes 11 could be steps in the system
But the system does require Apple to create a cable company, even a deal with a cable company, a real TV etc. despite the rumors. Heck it doesn't require apple to create Netflix or pandora either.
- multiple speakers that you can attach
- a separate amplifier
- a cable box
Then we will know that Apple is over and done.
They can't get Apple TV to look simple can't see how that'll change with a full blown set.
333Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Hardware with low margins is not the Apple way.
Indeed. But the Apple TV as is most likely a VERY low profit maker for them. A TV would likely end up making them more money than 2 or 3 Apple TVs, I'd bet. And if they can offer a basic TV subscription, as an option, the consumer may have a second choice at checkout, to get the TV for an entry price they may be far more willing to entertain. So, you'd pay $1,299 (perhaps more) to get the TV with no contract, and total freedom, or you'd pay $499 and you'd get the TV with a subscription contract - the option the vast majority of iTV consumers would choose.
That's a viable go to market strategy, well, the bones of one, provided they can convince the content makers to play ball, which is a tall order.
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
...
...
... is more like a 50 year old TV, (not a 20-30 year old TV).
This is closer to a "20-30 year old TV"
Edit: I see someone has already pointed this out above.
Originally Posted by Ireland
Bla, bla, bla, they'll end up making a TV and you'll buy it.
Hardly.
Could you post a copy of the memo you received confirming that they are definitely building a TV set.
They doesn't equal Tim. He's not a designer or engineer so he has no business need to be studying them and he might in fact not have a TV for personal viewing.
And the existing market sucking is more about the content than the TVs.
Seems rather clear that you think they should make a TV so you are reading everything as proof you are right. But your wishes don't make it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by See Flat
"social" networks is the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having 1000 fake friends that are projecting a false image of themselves.
Meanwhile, 100 years ago:
"telephone" networks are the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having an address book full of moochers that only call you when they want something.
My point: It is what you make of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007
I have no doubt that Apple is working to take over the living room.
I am looking forward to it.
I hope they work with Loewe on designs...
http://www.loewe.tv/int
Time will tell.
The don't need to rely on Loewe (don't take me wrong, cause I like their design) since they do have Johnny Yves on board. He will do the trick, there is no doubt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Hardly.
I didn't mean you, obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
How does that comment indicate Apple is planning a television set?
It doesn't. It's all speculation. One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade
So all those people buying all those Smart TV's don't want them?
Yep, all I want is a dumb screen to plug stuff into, I don't even want to pay for built in tuner or speakers.
My main TV has an Apple TV, a Raspberry Pi, a Sony Blueray player, an X-box and a dual tuner STB with hard drive plugged in and is plugged into a 5.1 channel Pioneer amp.
I pretty much have everything on my network and the Internet covered.
The TV part is the least important.