- Nothing last forever in the tech industry. It's not feasible.
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android. And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
- By "educating" I am talking about Apple as an engine that encourages a new purchasing behaviour. For example, Amazon pioneered the one-click purchase when the web was still nascent but today, almost all web transactions are one-click so Amazon helped people get familar and comfortable with this. Eventually users will get comfortable and more sophisticated with their mobile devices and mobile purchases wether it is done on iOS or Android.
If Apple wants to avoid becoming a niche player again they will have to rethink their strategy. It is a platform war and the platform with the biggest install base always win. And this is the kind of winning that Eric Schmidt was referring to, not who makes the most money but who will have the biggest pie. Google has the deep pockets to invest in this venture for the long haul until the market conditions are in their favor. Google is basically printing money from its advertizing unit and this revenue stream is not in jeopardy. So we'll see in 3-5 years who was right...
iOS will be ahead in developer interest for at least 5 to 10 years.
The difference in performance is huge (the iPhone beats the S3 by a factor of 3 on graphical tests and is outmuscling the PSVita) so a developer can do more on iOS than Android.
It's much easier to produce great things on iOS, people with money are on iOS, Apple userbase is growing full-throttle (cannot keep up with demand for months), more than 80% of users have the last version of iOS, etc.
The shift in developer interest is happening, but because more and more developers are prioritizing iOS. I don't like that, i believe that All apps should be available to everyone, but OEMs and Google are being left in the dust. 3 times the performance? Can you believe it? The difference is growing and Apple is putting the hammer down with the a6... exynos and mali have no chance. Exynos 5 dual should benchmark much higher to give similar performance to the a6 (UI speed, fighting the java effect, etc), but it can't, and that mali is a joke.
iOS will be ahead in developer interest for at least 5 to 10 years.
The difference in performance is huge (the iPhone beats the S3 by a factor of 3 on graphical tests and is outmuscling the PSVita) so a developer can do more on iOS than Android.
iOS will be ahead in developer interest for at least 5 to 10 years.
The difference in performance is huge (the iPhone beats the S3 by a factor of 3 on graphical tests and is outmuscling the PSVita) so a developer can do more on iOS than Android.
It's much easier to produce great things on iOS, people with money are on iOS, Apple userbase is growing full-throttle (cannot keep up with demand for months), more than 80% of users have the last version of iOS, etc.
The shift in developer interest is happening, but because more and more developers are prioritizing iOS. I don't like that, i believe that All apps should be available to everyone, but OEMs and Google are being left in the dust. 3 times the performance? Can you believe it? The difference is growing and Apple is putting the hammer down with the a6... exynos and mali have no chance. Exynos 5 dual should benchmark much higher to give similar performance to the a6 (UI speed, fighting the java effect, etc), but it can't, and that mali is a joke.
Do you need more reasons?
Performance is not a deciding factor. As is the case with computers, Apple is not in the race for performance on smartphones.
The fit, finish and polish of Android has improved greatly and most critics agree that the latest Android version is giving apple's iOS a run for their money. and please keep in mind that Samsung is building the chips you find in all iOS devices even the A6 chip found in the iPhone 5.
I know what you're saying here, but I also appreciate replicant's point, and I think what s/he's suggesting may be closer to the truth than we're willing to believe. Android users used to be a niche demographic. I think people are starting to see it as a viable and much less expensive alternative. Even my wife recently complained that she has to pay for an app that's free on Android. You and I know it's worth it, but I don't think MOST people see it that way.
Google doesn't make their money selling phones or apps. They sell YOU AND ME -- our habits, preferences and interests -- and it seems they've been doing a pretty good job of it. They don't need to make money on the OS because it's just another data mining tentacle feeding into the part of the machine that DOES make money.
Thanks for being lucid and reminding people here that Google is an advertizing company.
I agree with much of what you wrote, but disagree that it's necessarily doom-worthy to be a niche player. One man's niche is another man's boutique; a company need merely be profitable to be successful.
While Apple still holds a slender majority in the tablet space, they're at 27% for smartphones and about 10% for PCs, and make more money in both categories than any competitor.
There is of course the risk that their minority position could conceivably drop to a level where third parties no longer find them as lucrative, and once third parties leave things do look grim as we started to see by the mid-90s.
But I think Apple learned a lot from those years, and I doubt we'll see Spindler-style management at Apple again.
Apple doesn't need the whole market, as long as the high-end segment continues to choose them.
Interesting perspective but I don't see why Apple should be content with being a niche player when they are the true innovators and creators of this space.
You do realize, of course, that AppleInsider, where you've contributed content 292 times thus far, also makes their living from selling your eyeballs to advertisers, no?
Yes. So does my employer. I don't get your point, though. What does that have to do with Google using Android as a driver for their business model rather than a revenue generator?
Well, that hasn't been true for the last four years, so there's no reason for me to believe it's going to change.
Developers don't care about Android. More channel-stuffing without users actually using the product won't change that.
Your "when" here has no hinting of it happening at any time.
Again, they'll have to actually be using the OS first.
And since this has been encouraged for over four years and it's still trending heavily toward iOS…
Why? They have all the money. They have all the quality. And they have the devices that are actually being used.
So Apple has lost computers. They should have given up 20 years ago.
How can you afford pie—or any food—when you have no money?
Does that matter when they're bleeding it from all other units?
Didn't people say this about Android in 2009?
Who cares what happened in the last 4 years and how is that relevant to future trends?
And who cares about Android in 2009? Have you seen the latest release of android? I mean, I like my iPhone as much as the next guy but let's be real here.
Developers will start to care about Android when it becomes the dominant mobile OS. And if Apple does not see this then they will become a niche player.
As long as Google's ad revenue remains intact, they will continue to invest in Android and they will eventually make money from mobile ads like they are making a ton of money from web ads right now. Who says they have no money? Giving android away is good for business now because it allowed them to go from 0 market share to roughly 75% marketshare in only a couple of years.
Who cares what happened in the last 4 years and how is that relevant to future trends?
Because it's trending even further in the direction it has been going.
And who cares about Android in 2009? Have you seen the latest release of android? I mean, I like my iPhone as much as the next guy but let's be real here.
Real about what? Developers have seen the latest release of Android. They still want iOS.
Developers will start to care about Android when it becomes the dominant mobile OS.
Been the dominant mobile OS for a few years now, if 'dominant' means 'has the most marketshare', and again, developers still choose iOS.
…eventually make money from mobile ads…
Not many want to hear this word.
RIM will eventually release BlackBerry OS 10. That is, if they're not bankrupt before it comes out.
Because it's trending even further in the direction it has been going.
Real about what? Developers have seen the latest release of Android. They still want iOS.
Been the dominant mobile OS for a few years now, if 'dominant' means 'has the most marketshare', and again, developers still choose iOS.
Not many want to hear this word.
RIM will eventually release BlackBerry OS 10. That is, if they're not bankrupt before it comes out.
I'm talking about developers for Android.
Let's just agree to disagree. If you think everything is looking fine for the future of iOS then good for you.
I come for the Andy Grove school of thinking that only the paranoid will survive. And in Apple's case, once they lose marketshare and the ecosystem then they will lose the platform war. And it is downhill from there.
It's funny you mention RIM because they suffered this fate and look how hard it is for them to claw their way back.
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android. And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
Where this is wrong is that you are basing this statement on the flawed assumption that most of the Android "activations" are high end, "flagship" phones, when sales and usage data suggest this is not the case.
There are bucketloads of cheap PAYG Android phones being sold which are included in Schmidt's "activations", many of them still on Gingerbread.
This is not a terribly attractive market for developers as they are restricted to the lowest common denominator for many features.
Even my wife recently complained that she has to pay for an app that's free on Android.
I know of someone who ran up $600 in excess data usage from playing "free" Angry Birds on an Android handset because they did not understand that connecting to download ads was using data.
That left them with the choice of paying an additional monthly cost of adding data to their plan or deleting the App.
She deleted Angry Birds and switched off data.
One Galaxy S2 which is of no further use to developers and is now used as a feature phone.
I wonder how much of the glaring disparity of Android vs iOS in web usage stats could be attributed to similar anecdotes?
If you feel there's something inherently wrong with this model you might have better luck asking AppleInsider why they chose it.
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with the model and never said I do. I said that model is why it doesn't matter whether or not Google makes money on Android, because Android isn't the end game, it's (one of) the MEANS to their end game.
Performance is not a deciding factor. As is the case with computers, Apple is not in the race for performance on smartphones.
The fit, finish and polish of Android has improved greatly and most critics agree that the latest Android version is giving apple's iOS a run for their money. and please keep in mind that Samsung is building the chips you find in all iOS devices even the A6 chip found in the iPhone 5.
Another one without any sort of knowledge... oh god..
Yes, samsung MANUFACTURES them. So what? What does that have to do with Samsung chips? On samsung devices you get worse screen and worse chips/GPU and samsung manufactures both on the iPhone.
Apple designs them! Apple owns them! Who made the eiffel tower? gustave or some "slaves"?
What is your point?
Who says that the latest version of Android is anywhere close in performance or app quality/ease to build apps? Do you even understand anything about this subject?
One one side, you have a phone 3x more powerful (graphics) then the flagship android device, 90% of users on the same OS version, Beautiful tools and SDK, people with appetite for apps. On the other side you have much less quality devices, huge fragmentation that prevents latest APIs from being used, java, people that only use phones for text and calls since iOS dominates net usage.
What on earth makes you think that things are changing in favor of Android? It's totally the opposite! Your lack of knowledge makes any discussion about this subject useless... It's like trying to talk with a door.
It's funny you mention RIM because they suffered this fate and look how hard it is for them to claw their way back.
Comparing Apple in any way to RIM is laughable at this time. Only if someone brings out a mobile OS that is far superior to the iOS experience then you might have a case (and please don't say Android... unless, of course, you want to lose all credibility).
Comments
deleted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
- Nothing last forever in the tech industry. It's not feasible.
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android. And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
- By "educating" I am talking about Apple as an engine that encourages a new purchasing behaviour. For example, Amazon pioneered the one-click purchase when the web was still nascent but today, almost all web transactions are one-click so Amazon helped people get familar and comfortable with this. Eventually users will get comfortable and more sophisticated with their mobile devices and mobile purchases wether it is done on iOS or Android.
If Apple wants to avoid becoming a niche player again they will have to rethink their strategy. It is a platform war and the platform with the biggest install base always win. And this is the kind of winning that Eric Schmidt was referring to, not who makes the most money but who will have the biggest pie. Google has the deep pockets to invest in this venture for the long haul until the market conditions are in their favor. Google is basically printing money from its advertizing unit and this revenue stream is not in jeopardy. So we'll see in 3-5 years who was right...
iOS will be ahead in developer interest for at least 5 to 10 years.
The difference in performance is huge (the iPhone beats the S3 by a factor of 3 on graphical tests and is outmuscling the PSVita) so a developer can do more on iOS than Android.
It's much easier to produce great things on iOS, people with money are on iOS, Apple userbase is growing full-throttle (cannot keep up with demand for months), more than 80% of users have the last version of iOS, etc.
The shift in developer interest is happening, but because more and more developers are prioritizing iOS. I don't like that, i believe that All apps should be available to everyone, but OEMs and Google are being left in the dust. 3 times the performance? Can you believe it? The difference is growing and Apple is putting the hammer down with the a6... exynos and mali have no chance. Exynos 5 dual should benchmark much higher to give similar performance to the a6 (UI speed, fighting the java effect, etc), but it can't, and that mali is a joke.
Do you need more reasons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
iOS will be ahead in developer interest for at least 5 to 10 years.
The difference in performance is huge (the iPhone beats the S3 by a factor of 3 on graphical tests and is outmuscling the PSVita) so a developer can do more on iOS than Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
iOS will be ahead in developer interest for at least 5 to 10 years.
The difference in performance is huge (the iPhone beats the S3 by a factor of 3 on graphical tests and is outmuscling the PSVita) so a developer can do more on iOS than Android.
It's much easier to produce great things on iOS, people with money are on iOS, Apple userbase is growing full-throttle (cannot keep up with demand for months), more than 80% of users have the last version of iOS, etc.
The shift in developer interest is happening, but because more and more developers are prioritizing iOS. I don't like that, i believe that All apps should be available to everyone, but OEMs and Google are being left in the dust. 3 times the performance? Can you believe it? The difference is growing and Apple is putting the hammer down with the a6... exynos and mali have no chance. Exynos 5 dual should benchmark much higher to give similar performance to the a6 (UI speed, fighting the java effect, etc), but it can't, and that mali is a joke.
Do you need more reasons?
Performance is not a deciding factor. As is the case with computers, Apple is not in the race for performance on smartphones.
The fit, finish and polish of Android has improved greatly and most critics agree that the latest Android version is giving apple's iOS a run for their money. and please keep in mind that Samsung is building the chips you find in all iOS devices even the A6 chip found in the iPhone 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
I know what you're saying here, but I also appreciate replicant's point, and I think what s/he's suggesting may be closer to the truth than we're willing to believe. Android users used to be a niche demographic. I think people are starting to see it as a viable and much less expensive alternative. Even my wife recently complained that she has to pay for an app that's free on Android. You and I know it's worth it, but I don't think MOST people see it that way.
Google doesn't make their money selling phones or apps. They sell YOU AND ME -- our habits, preferences and interests -- and it seems they've been doing a pretty good job of it. They don't need to make money on the OS because it's just another data mining tentacle feeding into the part of the machine that DOES make money.
Thanks for being lucid and reminding people here that Google is an advertizing company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
I agree with much of what you wrote, but disagree that it's necessarily doom-worthy to be a niche player. One man's niche is another man's boutique; a company need merely be profitable to be successful.
While Apple still holds a slender majority in the tablet space, they're at 27% for smartphones and about 10% for PCs, and make more money in both categories than any competitor.
There is of course the risk that their minority position could conceivably drop to a level where third parties no longer find them as lucrative, and once third parties leave things do look grim as we started to see by the mid-90s.
But I think Apple learned a lot from those years, and I doubt we'll see Spindler-style management at Apple again.
Apple doesn't need the whole market, as long as the high-end segment continues to choose them.
Interesting perspective but I don't see why Apple should be content with being a niche player when they are the true innovators and creators of this space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
You do realize, of course, that AppleInsider, where you've contributed content 292 times thus far, also makes their living from selling your eyeballs to advertisers, no?
Yes. So does my employer. I don't get your point, though. What does that have to do with Google using Android as a driver for their business model rather than a revenue generator?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's why I said what I said the way I said it.
Well, that hasn't been true for the last four years, so there's no reason for me to believe it's going to change.
Developers don't care about Android. More channel-stuffing without users actually using the product won't change that.
Your "when" here has no hinting of it happening at any time.
Again, they'll have to actually be using the OS first.
And since this has been encouraged for over four years and it's still trending heavily toward iOS…
Why? They have all the money. They have all the quality. And they have the devices that are actually being used.
So Apple has lost computers. They should have given up 20 years ago.
How can you afford pie—or any food—when you have no money?
Does that matter when they're bleeding it from all other units?
Didn't people say this about Android in 2009?
Who cares what happened in the last 4 years and how is that relevant to future trends?
And who cares about Android in 2009? Have you seen the latest release of android? I mean, I like my iPhone as much as the next guy but let's be real here.
Developers will start to care about Android when it becomes the dominant mobile OS. And if Apple does not see this then they will become a niche player.
As long as Google's ad revenue remains intact, they will continue to invest in Android and they will eventually make money from mobile ads like they are making a ton of money from web ads right now. Who says they have no money? Giving android away is good for business now because it allowed them to go from 0 market share to roughly 75% marketshare in only a couple of years.
Originally Posted by replicant
Who cares what happened in the last 4 years and how is that relevant to future trends?
Because it's trending even further in the direction it has been going.
And who cares about Android in 2009? Have you seen the latest release of android? I mean, I like my iPhone as much as the next guy but let's be real here.
Real about what? Developers have seen the latest release of Android. They still want iOS.
Developers will start to care about Android when it becomes the dominant mobile OS.
Been the dominant mobile OS for a few years now, if 'dominant' means 'has the most marketshare', and again, developers still choose iOS.
…eventually make money from mobile ads…
Not many want to hear this word.
RIM will eventually release BlackBerry OS 10. That is, if they're not bankrupt before it comes out.
Who says they have no money?
I'm talking about developers for Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because it's trending even further in the direction it has been going.
Real about what? Developers have seen the latest release of Android. They still want iOS.
Been the dominant mobile OS for a few years now, if 'dominant' means 'has the most marketshare', and again, developers still choose iOS.
Not many want to hear this word.
RIM will eventually release BlackBerry OS 10. That is, if they're not bankrupt before it comes out.
I'm talking about developers for Android.
Let's just agree to disagree. If you think everything is looking fine for the future of iOS then good for you.
I come for the Andy Grove school of thinking that only the paranoid will survive. And in Apple's case, once they lose marketshare and the ecosystem then they will lose the platform war. And it is downhill from there.
It's funny you mention RIM because they suffered this fate and look how hard it is for them to claw their way back.
deleted
Originally Posted by replicant
And in Apple's case, once they lose marketshare and the ecosystem then they will lose the platform war. And it is downhill from there.
Okay. They've lost neither. So if it starts to happen we can pick this back up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android. And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
Where this is wrong is that you are basing this statement on the flawed assumption that most of the Android "activations" are high end, "flagship" phones, when sales and usage data suggest this is not the case.
There are bucketloads of cheap PAYG Android phones being sold which are included in Schmidt's "activations", many of them still on Gingerbread.
This is not a terribly attractive market for developers as they are restricted to the lowest common denominator for many features.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Even my wife recently complained that she has to pay for an app that's free on Android.
I know of someone who ran up $600 in excess data usage from playing "free" Angry Birds on an Android handset because they did not understand that connecting to download ads was using data.
That left them with the choice of paying an additional monthly cost of adding data to their plan or deleting the App.
She deleted Angry Birds and switched off data.
One Galaxy S2 which is of no further use to developers and is now used as a feature phone.
I wonder how much of the glaring disparity of Android vs iOS in web usage stats could be attributed to similar anecdotes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
If you feel there's something inherently wrong with this model you might have better luck asking AppleInsider why they chose it.
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with the model and never said I do. I said that model is why it doesn't matter whether or not Google makes money on Android, because Android isn't the end game, it's (one of) the MEANS to their end game.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Yes, very close indeed. i mean, that guy said so.
Looks like the iphone 5 is JUST twice as powerful as the nexus 4. I mean, just 100% more power average, no big deal.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6426/ipad-4-gpu-performance-analyzed-powervr-sgx-554mp4-under-the-hood
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
Performance is not a deciding factor. As is the case with computers, Apple is not in the race for performance on smartphones.
The fit, finish and polish of Android has improved greatly and most critics agree that the latest Android version is giving apple's iOS a run for their money. and please keep in mind that Samsung is building the chips you find in all iOS devices even the A6 chip found in the iPhone 5.
Another one without any sort of knowledge... oh god..
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6426/ipad-4-gpu-performance-analyzed-powervr-sgx-554mp4-under-the-hood
Yes, samsung MANUFACTURES them. So what? What does that have to do with Samsung chips? On samsung devices you get worse screen and worse chips/GPU and samsung manufactures both on the iPhone.
Apple designs them! Apple owns them! Who made the eiffel tower? gustave or some "slaves"?
What is your point?
Who says that the latest version of Android is anywhere close in performance or app quality/ease to build apps? Do you even understand anything about this subject?
One one side, you have a phone 3x more powerful (graphics) then the flagship android device, 90% of users on the same OS version, Beautiful tools and SDK, people with appetite for apps. On the other side you have much less quality devices, huge fragmentation that prevents latest APIs from being used, java, people that only use phones for text and calls since iOS dominates net usage.
What on earth makes you think that things are changing in favor of Android? It's totally the opposite! Your lack of knowledge makes any discussion about this subject useless... It's like trying to talk with a door.
Inform yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
It's funny you mention RIM because they suffered this fate and look how hard it is for them to claw their way back.
Comparing Apple in any way to RIM is laughable at this time. Only if someone brings out a mobile OS that is far superior to the iOS experience then you might have a case (and please don't say Android... unless, of course, you want to lose all credibility).