Neither: at a slight angle, mirroring that of a keyboard for ergonomics, and created by the hardware contained therein. Basically an iMac without the foot.
That is definitely a niche computer you are talking about. And one that would be priced to match. What would you do on such a large tablet? I can see it for graphic designers but it would need some hefty horsepower. For video editing I think the angle would be all wrong. You need keyboard shortcuts, and you need to sit back frequently. Looking down all day is not good. I can see it used in many other contexts but where exceptional hw is required, not in the mainstream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
A 15" tablet. Not a touchscreen laptop, and not something with the iPad's UI, I don't think. I don't believe something so simple can scale that far up.
So a third OS? I just don't see the point right now. If Win 8 really takes off and all Windows machines ship with touch screens over the next few years, it could happen, but there are a lot of 'ifs' in there. But even a 15" tablet is niche. It would be a pro tool and so be be too expensive. Give me a real life scenario where the 15" is requirement.
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
Who's dropping their price on the iPhone? A dying Best Buy? Certainly not AT&T or Verizon.
I went to the Walmart web site and didn't see any "Wi-Fi 4th Gen" at $399.
Also, Apple has always had an agreement with their resellers that severely limited the price at which they could sell Apple products -- discounts were limited to about 5% MSRP. I wonder if Apple policy has changed.
A 40" touchscreen where the attitude can be adjusted from horizontal to vertical (and all points in between) like an easel or drafting table would be exceptional for some types of creative work. Things like: drawing; painting; CAD; drafting; photo light table; graphics design; prototyping; storyboarding; video and sound editing...
Final Cut Pro X [almost] cries out for you to reach in and "get your hands dirty" in the editing process.
Imagine doing ripple, roll, slip and slide with your fingers..
that is the ugliest set of lips on AEN. if that's supposed to be a smiley face, you could have at least used an authentic one;-)
and if you're actually selling the thought of an iOS 'super professional pad,' I get the concept of immersive workspace, and I like it... but it doesn't give with the 'mass market consumer experience' that Apple is trying to corner. It's a niche device. I just don't see it as a next or near next step ( read: 5 years out), as it current technology doesn't support it (battery, cpu, glass), and the cost would be prohibitive in the market... it would be a mac pro price for a niche market (to start). Not to say that a tool like this would jump start a whole new app market.
I do see the 'phase out' of trackpads and keyboards on Mac OSX, and I see it at the 13/15" size. maybe 17" as a 'iPad Pro' market. 17" on your lap/easel is a huge palatte.
that said, a 40" screen would be where I'd love to see Apple license to niche markets.
I've taken a very minimalist approach to my tech/electronics, recently. I've been on a mission to get rid of crappy, creaky, plasticky electronics which come with crappy, clunky interfaces and miles of cables/connectors and power bricks. The iPhone has helped immeasurably in this regard. No stand-a-lone GPS unit, no stand-a-lone camera, no stand-a-lone video camera, no stereo, etc., etc.
1) I only buy Apple products. 2) I'll always have the latest iPhone and an iPad mini (waiting for the rMini). And, 3) I will invest most of my $'s into only one large screen device. That device being the AppleTV and not 10" iPads, 13"-15" laptops or 20"-27" iMac's/Apple Monitor.
Sold my Macbook, ostensibly to purchase an 11" MBA...but decided against it. Sold my iPad 2 to get the new iPad 3. But again, didn't.
When my orig. intel iMac gives up the ghost, I may not replace it at all. If I do, it will be an MBA 11" (The new iMac's are wondrous! But, sadly, don't fit my lifestyle anymore.)
Sold my original ATV and my TV, waiting for the Apple TV. A little premature on that one. Missed the entire Formula One season. But at least saved $'s by not giving it to "Cocks" (Cox) Cable.
May invest in a TimeCapsule but it seems like dated tech now with the advent of iCloud, Dropbox, etc. I do have everything backed up on an ext. HD. (My last power brick to remove.)
Best!
Your post reminds me of a joke told by one of the typewriter salesman in the Tucson IBM office (ca 1972).
The short version: A guy walks into his office wearing a brand new suit -- that was unusual to say the least...
His co-workers were kidding him about it, and one finally asked: "why did you buy a suit like that?"
His answer: I can wear off the rack sizes, so I asked my wife to go to Cox and pick out a seersucker suit... she went to Sears...
That is definitely a niche computer you are talking about. And one that would be priced to match.
Mentioned that it wouldn't be a first run machine.
What would you do on such a large tablet? I can see it for graphic designers but it would need some hefty horsepower. For video editing I think the angle would be all wrong.
Dick had some great mentions. And you'd be able to change the angle.
So a third OS?
Replacing OS X…
Give me a real life scenario where the 15" is requirement.
Ooh, all the 17" MacBook Pro owners who begrudgingly shifted to 15" are clutching their laptops in terror…
I suppose everyone gets to do all of their work on an 8" screen in the future, huh?
... This isn't their idea...this was first introduced by an Apple UI alumnus in 1992 while working at Sun...Bruce Tognazzini:
...
This is the famous "Knowledge Navigator" of course.
I don't see this happening at all though and it's not a direction Apple is currently moving in. It's impractical and "old-fashioned" compared to even a basic iPad really.
The more obvious move for future desktops (keep this under your hat in case Balmer is listening), and the direction Apple does seem to be moving, is to blend the screen and the keyboard/mouse into one unit. As fancy as the Knowledge Navigator concept is, and as explicitly integrated as the screen and desktop seem to be in it, it still conceives of "things to look at" on the vertical surface, and "things to manipulate" on the lower horizontal surface. It doesn't really dispense with the concept of screen and keyboard looked at this way.
The latest iMac is very very close to "an iPad on a stick." The only patents Apple has shown on multi-touch desktops show something very similar to a "kneeling iMac" or an "iPad on a moveable/adjustable stick." An iPad like device on a spring loaded stand of some kind, either slanted at a drafting table kind of angle, or adjustable to various angles, possibly with a detachable screen part as well, is a far more likely future desktop than this giant curved wall.
The future is almost certainly filled with tablets, tablets, and more tablets and eventually the only difference between a tablet and a desktop will be whether you can pick it up. And yes, we will all be typing on glass and in ten years, no one will care for regular old physical keyboards and most won't remember them.
A 40" touchscreen computer is a stupid idea, there is cose to zero sales potential there. Now a gesture based computer might be something else but that isn't a touch screen.
Touchscreens on desktop computing is IMHO correctly assessed as generally suboptimal...until you go all in.
99% of the time you don't use your fingers on the vertical surface because obviously your arms will get tired. You use it on the table surface and there, the bigger the better.
Just remember it's from 1992 and it's a corporate video. It's rather non-apple though. I dunno if I see the iMac going in this direction because it's so big but you need both a vertical and horizontal work surface for effective touch.
Still if you watch the video you get to see iChat, a tablet, skeuomorphic UI (that nobody will understand since film canisters doesn't exist anymore) and bad 90s hair.
There are some interesting features that are not in the video such as tactile feedback by providing a raised goosebumps where the paper is displayed, the ability to print by throwing the document toward the table edge that has a printer installed, etc.
Thanks for the links.
Ahh.... Tog... I hadn't seen that video before. Some great and prescient ideas!
Touchscreens on desktop computing is IMHO correctly assessed as generally suboptimal...until you go all in.
In 2007, most people said the same of the iPhone (remember Blackberry's? Old Windows Phones?)
And Apple had low expectations.... Remember when Steve Jobs just wanted 1% of the mobile Phone Market?
I get 40" in specialized situations (Doctors, 'Creative', Traders, maybe even developers)... but to be profitable (in Apple levels) that would need to be millions a year. and that would be much more than 10% of any market, and that's a huge risk.
I don't see a 5 million a year sold (if $5000, at 40% profit, that's 10Billion Profit a year, pretty much the target now of a successful Apple product in 2014.).
I was skeptical about the mini. I have an original iPad nad I don't care for the weight or heat of the new iPads.
Both versions of the current iPad are lighter than the original iPad. So how could you be happy with the original's weight and not the new iPad?
I think he was 'sold' on the Mini just for what it is, but at the same time still happy with his current iPad1 - he doesn't need a new one, Mini or Maxi. He, that's the first time I wrote that in reference to the 9.7"
----
Snap
----
With all these stories on how great this Mini is, the positive experience many people have I think I'll check it out now that we have a Apple Store here as well. Totally don't need yet another iPad, but if people don't bother picking up their iPad3 anymore something is right with this new Mini.
Now how about an iPhone maxi - an iPad mini with phone? People don't seem to mind carrying 5+ inch Galaxy Notes around. I wonder if I'd want one to converge my phone and tablet, or if it would just be too large...
I think he was 'sold' on the Mini just for what it is, but at the same time still happy with his current iPad1 - he doesn't need a new one, Mini or Maxi. He, that's the first time I wrote that in reference to the 9.7"
Then why did he say: "I don't care for the weight or heat of the new iPads"
I cannot wait for the day when desktop OS' are touchscreen. So much that I want to do now that we just can't.
I'm still looking forward to Logic Studio or GarageBand touchscreen control. The Retina iPad is a good size, but I'd really love to have a control surface that sits right next to a full-size keyboard for input.
Actually, that appears to mis-state Steve's view on the smaller iPad.
He said that existing 7" tablets were crap.
I'd have to dig to find the presentation and I don't have time right now, but I'm pretty sure he panned the size altogether, not just existing implementations. At least publicly, anyway. To me, his comments about sanding down fingertips were a pretty unambiguous denunciation of the size in general.
I'm still looking forward to Logic Studio or GarageBand touchscreen control. The Retina iPad is a good size, but I'd really love to have a control surface that sits right next to a full-size keyboard for input.
Mmm, delicious. I've thought of those applications specifically, too. I think all OS X applications (where it's feasible) should have their own apps for iPad control. OH! No, too much clutter: ONE app on the iPad, all OS X applications can feed in their custom controls to that app. Don't know what to call it, don't really know what to call what it's doing, even. It's basically adding the iPad as a third input device for…
… We may have just come up with something big here. Just as the keyboard and mouse are used across all applications, so too would the iPad via this app, doing what both the mouse and keyboard cannot… What a PERFECT way to further help the transition to a fully multitouch desktop OS!
Originally Posted by v5v
…I'm pretty sure he panned the size altogether, not just existing implementations. At least publicly, anyway. To me, his comments about sanding down fingertips were a pretty unambiguous denunciation of the size in general.
He panned all existing solutions, and he also stated (paraphrase) that "[they] don't think this size is enough to create great tablet apps."
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Neither: at a slight angle, mirroring that of a keyboard for ergonomics, and created by the hardware contained therein. Basically an iMac without the foot.
That is definitely a niche computer you are talking about. And one that would be priced to match. What would you do on such a large tablet? I can see it for graphic designers but it would need some hefty horsepower. For video editing I think the angle would be all wrong. You need keyboard shortcuts, and you need to sit back frequently. Looking down all day is not good. I can see it used in many other contexts but where exceptional hw is required, not in the mainstream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
A 15" tablet. Not a touchscreen laptop, and not something with the iPad's UI, I don't think. I don't believe something so simple can scale that far up.
So a third OS? I just don't see the point right now. If Win 8 really takes off and all Windows machines ship with touch screens over the next few years, it could happen, but there are a lot of 'ifs' in there. But even a 15" tablet is niche. It would be a pro tool and so be be too expensive. Give me a real life scenario where the 15" is requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
Who's dropping their price on the iPhone? A dying Best Buy? Certainly not AT&T or Verizon.
I went to the Walmart web site and didn't see any "Wi-Fi 4th Gen" at $399.
Also, Apple has always had an agreement with their resellers that severely limited the price at which they could sell Apple products -- discounts were limited to about 5% MSRP. I wonder if Apple policy has changed.
Dick, the announcement is over at 9to5Mac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
A 40" touchscreen where the attitude can be adjusted from horizontal to vertical (and all points in between) like an easel or drafting table would be exceptional for some types of creative work. Things like: drawing; painting; CAD; drafting; photo light table; graphics design; prototyping; storyboarding; video and sound editing...
Final Cut Pro X [almost] cries out for you to reach in and "get your hands dirty" in the editing process.
Imagine doing ripple, roll, slip and slide with your fingers..
that is the ugliest set of lips on AEN. if that's supposed to be a smiley face, you could have at least used an authentic one;-)
and if you're actually selling the thought of an iOS 'super professional pad,' I get the concept of immersive workspace, and I like it... but it doesn't give with the 'mass market consumer experience' that Apple is trying to corner. It's a niche device. I just don't see it as a next or near next step ( read: 5 years out), as it current technology doesn't support it (battery, cpu, glass), and the cost would be prohibitive in the market... it would be a mac pro price for a niche market (to start). Not to say that a tool like this would jump start a whole new app market.
I do see the 'phase out' of trackpads and keyboards on Mac OSX, and I see it at the 13/15" size. maybe 17" as a 'iPad Pro' market. 17" on your lap/easel is a huge palatte.
that said, a 40" screen would be where I'd love to see Apple license to niche markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126
Good for Apple!
I've taken a very minimalist approach to my tech/electronics, recently. I've been on a mission to get rid of crappy, creaky, plasticky electronics which come with crappy, clunky interfaces and miles of cables/connectors and power bricks. The iPhone has helped immeasurably in this regard. No stand-a-lone GPS unit, no stand-a-lone camera, no stand-a-lone video camera, no stereo, etc., etc.
1) I only buy Apple products. 2) I'll always have the latest iPhone and an iPad mini (waiting for the rMini). And, 3) I will invest most of my $'s into only one large screen device. That device being the AppleTV and not 10" iPads, 13"-15" laptops or 20"-27" iMac's/Apple Monitor.
Sold my Macbook, ostensibly to purchase an 11" MBA...but decided against it. Sold my iPad 2 to get the new iPad 3. But again, didn't.
When my orig. intel iMac gives up the ghost, I may not replace it at all. If I do, it will be an MBA 11" (The new iMac's are wondrous! But, sadly, don't fit my lifestyle anymore.)
Sold my original ATV and my TV, waiting for the Apple TV. A little premature on that one. Missed the entire Formula One season. But at least saved $'s by not giving it to "Cocks" (Cox) Cable.
May invest in a TimeCapsule but it seems like dated tech now with the advent of iCloud, Dropbox, etc. I do have everything backed up on an ext. HD. (My last power brick to remove.)
Best!
Your post reminds me of a joke told by one of the typewriter salesman in the Tucson IBM office (ca 1972).
The short version: A guy walks into his office wearing a brand new suit -- that was unusual to say the least...
His co-workers were kidding him about it, and one finally asked: "why did you buy a suit like that?"
His answer: I can wear off the rack sizes, so I asked my wife to go to Cox and pick out a seersucker suit... she went to Sears...
Originally Posted by paxman
That is definitely a niche computer you are talking about. And one that would be priced to match.
Mentioned that it wouldn't be a first run machine.
What would you do on such a large tablet? I can see it for graphic designers but it would need some hefty horsepower. For video editing I think the angle would be all wrong.
Dick had some great mentions. And you'd be able to change the angle.
So a third OS?
Replacing OS X…
Give me a real life scenario where the 15" is requirement.
Ooh, all the 17" MacBook Pro owners who begrudgingly shifted to 15" are clutching their laptops in terror…
I suppose everyone gets to do all of their work on an 8" screen in the future, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Everyone stay out of the way while TS' head explodes.
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
... This isn't their idea...this was first introduced by an Apple UI alumnus in 1992 while working at Sun...Bruce Tognazzini:
This is the famous "Knowledge Navigator" of course.
I don't see this happening at all though and it's not a direction Apple is currently moving in. It's impractical and "old-fashioned" compared to even a basic iPad really.
The more obvious move for future desktops (keep this under your hat in case Balmer is listening), and the direction Apple does seem to be moving, is to blend the screen and the keyboard/mouse into one unit. As fancy as the Knowledge Navigator concept is, and as explicitly integrated as the screen and desktop seem to be in it, it still conceives of "things to look at" on the vertical surface, and "things to manipulate" on the lower horizontal surface. It doesn't really dispense with the concept of screen and keyboard looked at this way.
The latest iMac is very very close to "an iPad on a stick." The only patents Apple has shown on multi-touch desktops show something very similar to a "kneeling iMac" or an "iPad on a moveable/adjustable stick." An iPad like device on a spring loaded stand of some kind, either slanted at a drafting table kind of angle, or adjustable to various angles, possibly with a detachable screen part as well, is a far more likely future desktop than this giant curved wall.
The future is almost certainly filled with tablets, tablets, and more tablets and eventually the only difference between a tablet and a desktop will be whether you can pick it up. And yes, we will all be typing on glass and in ten years, no one will care for regular old physical keyboards and most won't remember them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
A 40" touchscreen computer is a stupid idea, there is cose to zero sales potential there. Now a gesture based computer might be something else but that isn't a touch screen.
Touchscreens on desktop computing is IMHO correctly assessed as generally suboptimal...until you go all in.
99% of the time you don't use your fingers on the vertical surface because obviously your arms will get tired. You use it on the table surface and there, the bigger the better.
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2012/10/10/benddesk-is-a-workstation-and-multitouch-computer-in-one/
This isn't their idea...this was first introduced by an Apple UI alumnus in 1992 while working at Sun...Bruce Tognazzini:
http://www.asktog.com/starfire/
Just remember it's from 1992 and it's a corporate video.
Still if you watch the video you get to see iChat, a tablet, skeuomorphic UI (that nobody will understand since film canisters doesn't exist anymore) and bad 90s hair.
There are some interesting features that are not in the video such as tactile feedback by providing a raised goosebumps where the paper is displayed, the ability to print by throwing the document toward the table edge that has a printer installed, etc.
Thanks for the links.
Ahh.... Tog... I hadn't seen that video before. Some great and prescient ideas!
I was skeptical about the mini. I have an original iPad nad I don't care for the weight or heat of the new iPads.
I picked up the mini, played with it for a few minutes and was sold. No, I didn't buy one, but I don't need one right now.
Anyway, the iPad mini is absolutely perfect. Truly a small computer. Amazing.
P
Huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad
For the WiFi versions:
iPad v.1 680 g
iPad v.4 650 g
cellular versions:
iPad v.1 730 g
iPad v.4 660 g
Both versions of the current iPad are lighter than the original iPad. So how could you be happy with the original's weight and not the new iPad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Touchscreens on desktop computing is IMHO correctly assessed as generally suboptimal...until you go all in.
In 2007, most people said the same of the iPhone (remember Blackberry's? Old Windows Phones?)
And Apple had low expectations.... Remember when Steve Jobs just wanted 1% of the mobile Phone Market?
I get 40" in specialized situations (Doctors, 'Creative', Traders, maybe even developers)... but to be profitable (in Apple levels) that would need to be millions a year. and that would be much more than 10% of any market, and that's a huge risk.
I don't see a 5 million a year sold (if $5000, at 40% profit, that's 10Billion Profit a year, pretty much the target now of a successful Apple product in 2014.).
At least not now.
I think he was 'sold' on the Mini just for what it is, but at the same time still happy with his current iPad1 - he doesn't need a new one, Mini or Maxi. He, that's the first time I wrote that in reference to the 9.7"
----
Snap
----
With all these stories on how great this Mini is, the positive experience many people have I think I'll check it out now that we have a Apple Store here as well. Totally don't need yet another iPad, but if people don't bother picking up their iPad3 anymore something is right with this new Mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'd really like a 15" iPad-equivalent for portable stuff, too.
Me too. Call 'em up and got them working on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
[...] I think it would sell better than the 10".
Me too, though it just got tougher to make them believe that now that the Minipad is selling so well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
HUH...
Perhaps a smaller iPad was the "perfect size" all along.
Never try to second guess the customer.
Then why did he say: "I don't care for the weight or heat of the new iPads"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I cannot wait for the day when desktop OS' are touchscreen. So much that I want to do now that we just can't.
I'm still looking forward to Logic Studio or GarageBand touchscreen control. The Retina iPad is a good size, but I'd really love to have a control surface that sits right next to a full-size keyboard for input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, that appears to mis-state Steve's view on the smaller iPad.
He said that existing 7" tablets were crap.
I'd have to dig to find the presentation and I don't have time right now, but I'm pretty sure he panned the size altogether, not just existing implementations. At least publicly, anyway. To me, his comments about sanding down fingertips were a pretty unambiguous denunciation of the size in general.
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
I'm still looking forward to Logic Studio or GarageBand touchscreen control. The Retina iPad is a good size, but I'd really love to have a control surface that sits right next to a full-size keyboard for input.
Mmm, delicious. I've thought of those applications specifically, too. I think all OS X applications (where it's feasible) should have their own apps for iPad control. OH! No, too much clutter: ONE app on the iPad, all OS X applications can feed in their custom controls to that app. Don't know what to call it, don't really know what to call what it's doing, even. It's basically adding the iPad as a third input device for…
… We may have just come up with something big here. Just as the keyboard and mouse are used across all applications, so too would the iPad via this app, doing what both the mouse and keyboard cannot… What a PERFECT way to further help the transition to a fully multitouch desktop OS!
Originally Posted by v5v
…I'm pretty sure he panned the size altogether, not just existing implementations. At least publicly, anyway. To me, his comments about sanding down fingertips were a pretty unambiguous denunciation of the size in general.
He panned all existing solutions, and he also stated (paraphrase) that "[they] don't think this size is enough to create great tablet apps."