I agree with your premise but not your definition. There are clear cases in which a larger tablet is more useful than a smaller one.
IOW, if being more portable is the only factor in determining usability then the iPhone is more useful as a tablet than the iPad and the previous gen iPod Nano more useful than the iPhone. At some point you reach a minimumm size limit where something more portable becomes a hindrance in actual use.
OK, that was an extreme example to illustrate a point, but what about a more nuanced example. What if one uses the iPad as their primary computing device, only at home, and don't have the best eyesight? Do you not think the iPad might be more ideal than the iPad mini?
Obviously there is a limit as to how small you can make something and still be able to type on it. My point is that the major limitation of typing speed on the iPad is having to switch between the Alpha, numeric, and symbol keyboards. The difference in size between the iPad Mini display and the iPad display is simply not enough to make any significant difference in typing speed. Also as I have said before, thumb typing while standing is far superior on the Mini. So, you arguments against the Mini based on typing is more or less a non-issue.
I type on tablets a lot. Probably more than most. I keep all of my notes and service calls on my iPad. I also constantly send tech support email to my customers. Since I travel most of the time, I almost always use my iPad to send the emails. I often have to type long emails to try and explain in detail how to sove a specific issue my customers might run into. After three weeks with the Mini, I do not find it to be any easier to type on my full size iPad when using a stand.... period.... It is easier to type on the mini while holding it... period....
Would I like to write a novel or tech manual on a tablet? No, but the difference in size between the mini and he full size IPad would not change that statement. I spent a lot of time in the store typing on the Mini before I bough it. After about an hour, it was obvious that there was little difference in typing speed between the two.. You really should try the Mini more before you assume that typing is a problem.
Sure the text on the mini is maller, but if I can still read it comfortably with my 48 year old eyes, why would the larger iPad be any better at reading????
I think that the Mini is the best size in a tablet computer. I knew it was time to replace my old iPad because it locked up all the time when trying to view WEB pages (lack of memory) I bought a Nexus 7 to play with. It's screen is a little narrower than the Mini and that made a big difference in how easy it was to read with the device. You had to zoom in and pan far more often than with the Mini. I returned the Nexus 7. The 16:9 ration is simply not good for reading.
I Know that the iPad Mini will become that default size of a tablet. It is basically the Minimum size to still offer full tablet functionality.... If you need something bigger, you need a laptop. The full size iPad will not make any difference once you exceed the limits of the Mini in my opinion. There will always be a nich market for larger tablets, but they will NOT be the dominate size. I also do not think that the Tablet will ever (at least in my life time) fully replace a laptop....
I suspect that Apple will re-work the full size iPads to have smaller borders around the screen (like the mini) They will make it tinner and lighter as battery technology improves. This will make it more portable, but it will still be more bulky the a tablet the size of the Mini and not offer much (if any) more functionality....
Of course this is just my opinion based on actually using the iPad every day since it was introduced and using the new Mini for the last three weeks for both business and pleasure....
It is not ambiguous. Real estate clearly refers to the size of the display, usually refered to in area as noted by diagonal inches with a reference to aspect ratio.
Failure to click the link and see that many folks mean resolution when they say screen real estate does not mean that the evidence does not exist to prove you wrong.
Again, so your position is that a 15" MBP has the identical screen real estate of a MBPr?
If it ONLY means size then why not state it even more simply and directly? The "screen is smaller" or the "screen is bigger". Why would anyone state "screen real estate" if the ONLY meaning was size.
In UI screen real estate as always meant the amount of stuff you could put on a screen.
"Screen Real Estate and Resolution
Of the many limitations web designers must deal with screen real estate should be completely understood. Screen real estate refers to the space available to design in. This could be an arbitrary box, but that box might vary depending on the size and resolution of users' computer display. Screen resolution varies from computer to computer, though it can be predicted in part by the age of the computer. Newer computers typically provide the standard screen resolution or higher. Older computers may have much lower resolutions.
The amount of screen real estate a given user may have can vary from 800 pixels wide by 600 pixels high (800x600) to 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels high (1024x768), to 1400 pixels wide by 1050 pixels high, and beyond. Here are some examples of users I know and their screen resolutions:"
"It respects the device’s orientation by placing three, big interface elements next to each other; it doesn’t waste a single pixel of screen real estate;"
"This is partially how Apple handled the difference in resolution from iPhone to iPad—a lot of UI elements are the same pixel size, but padded to make use of the extra screen real estate."
"The highest resolution means you can read two articles side-by-side more easily or have any number of different windows open at the same time. Anyone who uses multiple monitors understands how much more productive extra screen real estate like this can be. The MacBook Pro Retina gives you that extra room.
...
The Lenovo T530 can be upgraded to a 1,920 by 1,200 resolution screen for a starting price of about $1,300. You'd have to add more to match the MacBook Pro's processor; there's no large solid-state drive option, and you won't get Retina display quality. But if you were mainly interested in more screen real estate, it seems worth a look."
I can go on but even ONE example of people using "screen real estate" to refer to resolution rather than size disproves any assertion that the ONLY meaning is size.
I didn't know anyone thought 10 finger typing onto a touch screen was a viable option.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
I didn't know anyone thought 10 finger typing onto a touch screen was a viable option.
I don't see that either, no.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
Even though I fully understand what you are saying, and agreeing to it, there is of course a) click sounds (if turned on) and b) that kind gentlemen telling me the correct spelling...(if I misspell or haven't finished typing the word).
I don't see that either, no.
Even though I fully understand what you are saying, and agreeing to it, there is of course a) click sounds (if turned on) and b) that kind gentlemen telling me the correct spelling...(if I misspell or haven't finished typing the word).
In the video, it was a classroom setting, I wonder if those clicks would be allowed. I think the type clicks are pretty annoying and even rude for those around you. I don't know about this telling you the correct spelling, is there some voice notice that I'm not aware of?
I don't see that either, no.
Even though I fully understand what you are saying, and agreeing to it, there is of course a) click sounds (if turned on) and b) that kind gentlemen telling me the correct spelling...(if I misspell or haven't finished typing the word).
In the video, it was a classroom setting, I wonder if those clicks would be allowed. I think the type clicks are pretty annoying and even rude for those around you. I don't know about this telling you the correct spelling, is there some voice notice that I'm not aware of?
Annoying indeed.
/Settings/General/Accessibility/Speak Auto-text. Annoying as well, but handy -all at the same time. What¿
No. It tells you that everyone else is too lazy to do any real research into design to miniaturize their parts. It tells you that Android is too uselessly power hungry, forcing phones to have larger batteries, forcing them to be larger.
It also relates to how people use their devices. The Note sold reasonably well. I don't see people hold phones up to their ears so much now. You just see people looking down at their phones. If you want anecdotes, I see mostly iphones. Amongst family members I can count in excess of 10 iphones and several ipads. Almost everyone I know personally uses an iphone. A couple have SIIIs and I've seen a couple Lumias in use, although I didn't know the people using them. I also cannot remember the last time I saw someone with a Windows PC for personal use. I don't draw conclusions from that as it's a really biased sample. The area is extremely Mac heavy. Anyway none of them really talk much on these devices. Texts are much less intrusive. You can just return them when you have a moment rather than having to answer a call when it rings or call the person back. It alleviates any kind of synchronization requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ah, the future. What wonders you can bring.
And this means what? They're not using them. The devices are trash. They're disposable. They're one-use-and-gone. They're the phone equivalent of the disposable razor blade that you slip in the razor disposal slot in the wall of the really, REALLY seedy and disgusting motel when you're done using them.
Does that date me? How many places have razor disposal slots anymore?
You carry way too much hatred. I don't think I've ever been to motel like that, but they probably exist somewhere. Slum areas typically aren't rebuilt very often. Some countries have needle disposal slots in public restrooms. This is even true in expensive cities. It allows for some measure of sanitation if they aren't able to fully police drug problems.
Quote:
People are buying them because they're cheap-as-free™. They're buying them because they don't understand you don't need a Mac to use an iPhone. They're buying them because they're the only thing advertised, so they're the only thing they know about. They're buying them because they're something that isn't an Apple product. They're buying them because salesmen sell Android over the iPhone.
And yes, they're buying them because they do things that Apple products don't. That's the Linux crowd. The people who buy Android devices because iOS is "too restrictive" are the same people (and the same NUMBER of people) that go with Linux because Windows and OS X are "too restrictive".
You're either too old or just making things up. Apple addresses the free or low cost segments in subsidized markets via the 4s and 4. Given the number of iphones and other idevices out there relative to Macs, why would anyone believe you need a Mac to use one? Apple has always been extremely approachable. They're not remotely intimidating to technophobes, so why would people buy into the idea that you require a Mac to use an iphone? If you're looking at third world countries, someone has to service them. It actually makes more sense for a company that makes their own chips to approach such markets. It's not so much that they're likely to generate large profits. They can be used to sink relatively fixed development costs on things like chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're not using the devices as a whole, as shown by usage stats.
This is just a really silly assumption. I wonder if wifi use shows up or how this data is measured in general. In countries where data plans aren't mandatory or cheap plans are popular, this may be likely. I don't see why anyone would buy a device and not use it. We've seen generations of devices at this point. Why would such a trend continue? If you look at early smartphone devices like the Treo, it was possible to maintain a number of offline apps. These are probably popular in poorer areas. Like I said earlier, it makes less sense for Apple to approach such a market. They do some amount of chip development, but I was referring more to companies that have to cover things like foundry costs. Volume devices basically subsidize a portion of the fixed costs of high margin products. Apple might even indirectly benefit from such behavior when it comes to sourcing parts.
Who is more arrogant? The folks that insist that the iPad Mini is never fit for anyone or the folks that insist that the iPad Mini is more fit for some folks?
I have never stated that the iPad Mini is better for everyone or for every purpose but that for many folks it is indeed better despite having lower specs.
I would also argue that "fuddy duddy" is not common in the lexicon of young folks and that folks that attempt to play the youth card on the internet are dumbasses. Melgoss and Dick are older than I am. I doubt more than a handful of other regulars on this forum are.
There's no question that the post to which you replied was absurdly dismissive and narrow-viewed. Your comparison of how lesser devices are often chosen over traditional and possibly even technically superior alternatives was good.
Where things went sideways for me was your implication that those who are NOT willing to compromise performance in exchange for convenience or other economies are out-of-touch. If that's what you meant, it was as insulting and narrow-minded as that to which you were responding, and if not the result of the embarrassing ignorance of youth, you should know better.
Re-reading your post in context now, I can see that you MAY have been trying to say that anyone who refuses to recognize any value in something that is obviously very popular, even if it is not well suited to their own needs, likely belongs to the group of duddies who tend towards fuddiness. That's not the way it came across, though.
Let me know when there's a "Let Me Bing That For You" site. I'm not clicking any Google links anymore.
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I didn't know anyone thought 10 finger typing onto a touch screen was a viable option.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
I remember that video! Thought to myself, "Finally, not only is there someone else who touch-types on their iPad, it's someone right in an Apple video!"
And if you're still skeptical, I've posted a video to YouTube recently that shows my exploits in this regard. I've been doing it for years on my iPad.
Originally Posted by hmm
You're either too old or just making things up. Given the number of iphones and other idevices out there relative to Macs, why would anyone believe you need a Mac to use one? Apple has always been extremely approachable. They're not remotely intimidating to technophobes, so why would people buy into the idea that you require a Mac to use an iphone?
You're just lost in the intelligence. I'm saying you've been here too long; you take for granted things that the layman wouldn't ever know.
People can be that stupid, is what I'm hinting at. I get all manner of questions on a regular basis that would have made me want to rip my hair out in earlier days. I suppose I'm used to it now.
I don't see why anyone would buy a device and not use it. Why would such a trend continue?
Because they use it as a phone, nothing more. You can't really buy a phone from the telecoms these days; they're shoving smartphones down our throats simply to sell disgusting data plans. So someone who'd have a flip phone otherwise now has the bottom of the barrel Android whatever, and he uses it as just a phone. No rooting, no apps, and probably not even any e-mail.
Of course even tho I also wear 34's I would almost never consider putting my phone in a front jeans pocket alongside keys and change that are usually there....
much less crowding out my wife's pride and joy. With no butt to speak of there's a lot more room for me in a back pocket than a front one.
Back pocket is just wrong.
So every time you get in a car or sit down you remove your phone from your back pocket to avoid breaking the glass? Sounds like you already use a giant phone.
People can be that stupid, is what I'm hinting at. I get all manner of questions on a regular basis that would have made me want to rip my hair out in earlier days. I suppose I'm used to it now.
I once spent an hour trying to explain to someone why a single RAID 5 unit isn't simultaneous storage and backup. I think I encounter willful ignorance more than stupidity, or the attempt to apply common logic without entirely understanding the parameters of the subject. (edit: I'm not an expert on that subject, but I do look things up rather than applying false logic) I would have expected to see some people expect that a Mac would be necessary during the early ipod era. Itunes wasn't immediately available for Windows, so it is quite possible. These days the number of iphones and ipads combined greatly dwarfs the number of recent Macs. I'd assume a lot of people, especially outside the US think of the iphone first when they think of Apple. I don't know how strong the association with the Macs is aside from those of us that have used them for a significant number of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because they use it as a phone, nothing more. You can't really buy a phone from the telecoms these days; they're shoving smartphones down our throats simply to sell disgusting data plans. So someone who'd have a flip phone otherwise now has the bottom of the barrel Android whatever, and he uses it as just a phone. No rooting, no apps, and probably not even any e-mail.
Well you have a few low end options per carrier if you look. Pre-paid plans also offer a few very basic phones. In both cases it is still possible to buy a phone without data or even text. They became mandatory add-ons in the US due to the high cost of subsidies. Some blackberries were considerably subsidized if I remember correctly, but older stuff like the ones Palm released after they annexed Handspring weren't $200 up front. You still these constantly in metropolitan areas. One of the unpleasant side effects of smartphones was the amount of data required to keep them functional. The older ones could survive on far leaner data plans or much of the time wifi. If you needed directions, you downloaded them prior to getting in the car. It's not as convenient, but it's unfortunate that you don't have many phone options that will allow something like that now without a data plan.
This is just a really silly assumption. I wonder if wifi use shows up or how this data is measured in general.
I'm pretty sure web servers don't care whether the data came through WiFi or cellular any more than web servers care whether the client made a request over wired ethernet or WiFi, it's all IP end to end. The user agent ID does tell us good information about the client device, I've not seen one that say which interface it used to send the IP packets.
I really don't know what the problem is that constrains web usage of Android devices, but something is up.
This is just a really silly assumption. I wonder if wifi use shows up or how this data is measured in general.
I'm pretty sure web servers don't care whether the data came through WiFi or cellular any more than web servers care whether the client made a request over wired ethernet or WiFi, it's all IP end to end. The user agent ID does tell us good information about the client device, I've not seen one that say which interface it used to send the IP packets.
I really don't know what the problem is that constrains web usage of Android devices, but something is up.
I brought this up in a previous thread. There absolutely is a relationship to wifi and the upside down web stats for Android. I'm suggesting Android users by in large are most likely people without home wifi or convenient access to corporate wifi because they have a different level of employment, affluence or disposable income. They likely shy away from cellular data usage for fear of overage charges.
The web server doesn't care how the client accesses the data but the server logs can definitely tell the story if the webmasters cared to do the analysis.
I didn't know anyone thought 10 finger typing onto a touch screen was a viable option.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
I was thinking about this one. It's not just tactile feedback to me. I can't stand things that lack a range of motion for heavier use. It feels weird, and I'm not sure whether it's healthy. If I had a virtual keyboard kind of ui on a tablet, assuming it was easy to pull up, I'd most likely use it for hotkeys. I use tons of them in every application as I can't stand clicking menu bars. People find that weird, but I find it to be much faster. I probably have at least 30 for applications where general typing is not required. It probably wouldn't work that well with a smaller tablet. I'm still thinking of the giant Wacoms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I'm pretty sure web servers don't care whether the data came through WiFi or cellular any more than web servers care whether the client made a request over wired ethernet or WiFi, it's all IP end to end. The user agent ID does tell us good information about the client device, I've not seen one that say which interface it used to send the IP packets.
I really don't know what the problem is that constrains web usage of Android devices, but something is up.
I wasn't aware of how the web usage statistics were sampled like if they're going by page hits, gigabytes, etc. I remember a lot of the earlier smartphone designs. If the input is good and the device isn't laggy, it's hard for me to see them as unusable.
I brought this up in a previous thread. There absolutely is a relationship to wifi and the upside down web stats for Android. I'm suggesting Android users by in large are most likely people without home wifi or convenient access to corporate wifi because they have a different level of employment, affluence or disposable income. They likely shy away from cellular data usage for fear of overage charges.
The web server doesn't care how the client accesses the data but the server logs can definitely tell the story if the webmasters cared to do the analysis.
But WiFi or cellular, your hit should be equally visible in the logs. I don't buy the suggestion that WiFi users aren't in the logs or just buried somewhere else, I don't see why that would happen, or what reason the tracking companies would be biased like that. The physical link is irrelevant from a logging standpoint, a hit is a hit. I highly doubt the logging software is giving one link type preference and not logging another. The User Agent ID will be the same either way. My hosting company makes it clear what percentage of hits are coming from Android devices period.
By that token, you'd think there'd be fishyness in the stats if some users had DSL vs. Cable and the web server stat counters simply ignored a whole class of users.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I agree with your premise but not your definition. There are clear cases in which a larger tablet is more useful than a smaller one.
IOW, if being more portable is the only factor in determining usability then the iPhone is more useful as a tablet than the iPad and the previous gen iPod Nano more useful than the iPhone. At some point you reach a minimumm size limit where something more portable becomes a hindrance in actual use.
OK, that was an extreme example to illustrate a point, but what about a more nuanced example. What if one uses the iPad as their primary computing device, only at home, and don't have the best eyesight? Do you not think the iPad might be more ideal than the iPad mini?
Obviously there is a limit as to how small you can make something and still be able to type on it. My point is that the major limitation of typing speed on the iPad is having to switch between the Alpha, numeric, and symbol keyboards. The difference in size between the iPad Mini display and the iPad display is simply not enough to make any significant difference in typing speed. Also as I have said before, thumb typing while standing is far superior on the Mini. So, you arguments against the Mini based on typing is more or less a non-issue.
I type on tablets a lot. Probably more than most. I keep all of my notes and service calls on my iPad. I also constantly send tech support email to my customers. Since I travel most of the time, I almost always use my iPad to send the emails. I often have to type long emails to try and explain in detail how to sove a specific issue my customers might run into. After three weeks with the Mini, I do not find it to be any easier to type on my full size iPad when using a stand.... period.... It is easier to type on the mini while holding it... period....
Would I like to write a novel or tech manual on a tablet? No, but the difference in size between the mini and he full size IPad would not change that statement. I spent a lot of time in the store typing on the Mini before I bough it. After about an hour, it was obvious that there was little difference in typing speed between the two.. You really should try the Mini more before you assume that typing is a problem.
Sure the text on the mini is maller, but if I can still read it comfortably with my 48 year old eyes, why would the larger iPad be any better at reading????
I think that the Mini is the best size in a tablet computer. I knew it was time to replace my old iPad because it locked up all the time when trying to view WEB pages (lack of memory) I bought a Nexus 7 to play with. It's screen is a little narrower than the Mini and that made a big difference in how easy it was to read with the device. You had to zoom in and pan far more often than with the Mini. I returned the Nexus 7. The 16:9 ration is simply not good for reading.
I Know that the iPad Mini will become that default size of a tablet. It is basically the Minimum size to still offer full tablet functionality.... If you need something bigger, you need a laptop. The full size iPad will not make any difference once you exceed the limits of the Mini in my opinion. There will always be a nich market for larger tablets, but they will NOT be the dominate size. I also do not think that the Tablet will ever (at least in my life time) fully replace a laptop....
I suspect that Apple will re-work the full size iPads to have smaller borders around the screen (like the mini) They will make it tinner and lighter as battery technology improves. This will make it more portable, but it will still be more bulky the a tablet the size of the Mini and not offer much (if any) more functionality....
Of course this is just my opinion based on actually using the iPad every day since it was introduced and using the new Mini for the last three weeks for both business and pleasure....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
It is not ambiguous. Real estate clearly refers to the size of the display, usually refered to in area as noted by diagonal inches with a reference to aspect ratio.
Failure to click the link and see that many folks mean resolution when they say screen real estate does not mean that the evidence does not exist to prove you wrong.
Again, so your position is that a 15" MBP has the identical screen real estate of a MBPr?
If it ONLY means size then why not state it even more simply and directly? The "screen is smaller" or the "screen is bigger". Why would anyone state "screen real estate" if the ONLY meaning was size.
In UI screen real estate as always meant the amount of stuff you could put on a screen.
"Screen Real Estate and Resolution
Of the many limitations web designers must deal with screen real estate should be completely understood. Screen real estate refers to the space available to design in. This could be an arbitrary box, but that box might vary depending on the size and resolution of users' computer display. Screen resolution varies from computer to computer, though it can be predicted in part by the age of the computer. Newer computers typically provide the standard screen resolution or higher. Older computers may have much lower resolutions.
The amount of screen real estate a given user may have can vary from 800 pixels wide by 600 pixels high (800x600) to 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels high (1024x768), to 1400 pixels wide by 1050 pixels high, and beyond. Here are some examples of users I know and their screen resolutions:"
http://desource.uvu.edu/dgm/2740/IN/steinja/lessons/04/l04_02.html
"It respects the device’s orientation by placing three, big interface elements next to each other; it doesn’t waste a single pixel of screen real estate;"
http://www.uxbooth.com/articles/user-interface-design-getting-the-basics-right/
"This is partially how Apple handled the difference in resolution from iPhone to iPad—a lot of UI elements are the same pixel size, but padded to make use of the extra screen real estate."
http://bjango.com/articles/extrapixels/
"The highest resolution means you can read two articles side-by-side more easily or have any number of different windows open at the same time. Anyone who uses multiple monitors understands how much more productive extra screen real estate like this can be. The MacBook Pro Retina gives you that extra room.
...
The Lenovo T530 can be upgraded to a 1,920 by 1,200 resolution screen for a starting price of about $1,300. You'd have to add more to match the MacBook Pro's processor; there's no large solid-state drive option, and you won't get Retina display quality. But if you were mainly interested in more screen real estate, it seems worth a look."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-33620_3-57454551-278/forget-retina-look-how-much-the-new-macbook-pro-displays/
I can go on but even ONE example of people using "screen real estate" to refer to resolution rather than size disproves any assertion that the ONLY meaning is size.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
I don't see that either, no.
Even though I fully understand what you are saying, and agreeing to it, there is of course a) click sounds (if turned on) and b) that kind gentlemen telling me the correct spelling...(if I misspell or haven't finished typing the word).
In the video, it was a classroom setting, I wonder if those clicks would be allowed. I think the type clicks are pretty annoying and even rude for those around you. I don't know about this telling you the correct spelling, is there some voice notice that I'm not aware of?
Annoying indeed.
/Settings/General/Accessibility/Speak Auto-text. Annoying as well, but handy -all at the same time. What¿
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No. It tells you that everyone else is too lazy to do any real research into design to miniaturize their parts. It tells you that Android is too uselessly power hungry, forcing phones to have larger batteries, forcing them to be larger.
It also relates to how people use their devices. The Note sold reasonably well. I don't see people hold phones up to their ears so much now. You just see people looking down at their phones. If you want anecdotes, I see mostly iphones. Amongst family members I can count in excess of 10 iphones and several ipads. Almost everyone I know personally uses an iphone. A couple have SIIIs and I've seen a couple Lumias in use, although I didn't know the people using them. I also cannot remember the last time I saw someone with a Windows PC for personal use. I don't draw conclusions from that as it's a really biased sample. The area is extremely Mac heavy. Anyway none of them really talk much on these devices. Texts are much less intrusive. You can just return them when you have a moment rather than having to answer a call when it rings or call the person back. It alleviates any kind of synchronization requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ah, the future. What wonders you can bring.
And this means what? They're not using them. The devices are trash. They're disposable. They're one-use-and-gone. They're the phone equivalent of the disposable razor blade that you slip in the razor disposal slot in the wall of the really, REALLY seedy and disgusting motel when you're done using them.
Does that date me? How many places have razor disposal slots anymore?
You carry way too much hatred. I don't think I've ever been to motel like that, but they probably exist somewhere. Slum areas typically aren't rebuilt very often. Some countries have needle disposal slots in public restrooms. This is even true in expensive cities. It allows for some measure of sanitation if they aren't able to fully police drug problems.
Quote:
People are buying them because they're cheap-as-free™. They're buying them because they don't understand you don't need a Mac to use an iPhone. They're buying them because they're the only thing advertised, so they're the only thing they know about. They're buying them because they're something that isn't an Apple product. They're buying them because salesmen sell Android over the iPhone.
And yes, they're buying them because they do things that Apple products don't. That's the Linux crowd. The people who buy Android devices because iOS is "too restrictive" are the same people (and the same NUMBER of people) that go with Linux because Windows and OS X are "too restrictive".
You're either too old or just making things up. Apple addresses the free or low cost segments in subsidized markets via the 4s and 4. Given the number of iphones and other idevices out there relative to Macs, why would anyone believe you need a Mac to use one? Apple has always been extremely approachable. They're not remotely intimidating to technophobes, so why would people buy into the idea that you require a Mac to use an iphone? If you're looking at third world countries, someone has to service them. It actually makes more sense for a company that makes their own chips to approach such markets. It's not so much that they're likely to generate large profits. They can be used to sink relatively fixed development costs on things like chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're not using the devices as a whole, as shown by usage stats.
This is just a really silly assumption. I wonder if wifi use shows up or how this data is measured in general. In countries where data plans aren't mandatory or cheap plans are popular, this may be likely. I don't see why anyone would buy a device and not use it. We've seen generations of devices at this point. Why would such a trend continue? If you look at early smartphone devices like the Treo, it was possible to maintain a number of offline apps. These are probably popular in poorer areas. Like I said earlier, it makes less sense for Apple to approach such a market. They do some amount of chip development, but I was referring more to companies that have to cover things like foundry costs. Volume devices basically subsidize a portion of the fixed costs of high margin products. Apple might even indirectly benefit from such behavior when it comes to sourcing parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Who is more arrogant? The folks that insist that the iPad Mini is never fit for anyone or the folks that insist that the iPad Mini is more fit for some folks?
I have never stated that the iPad Mini is better for everyone or for every purpose but that for many folks it is indeed better despite having lower specs.
I would also argue that "fuddy duddy" is not common in the lexicon of young folks and that folks that attempt to play the youth card on the internet are dumbasses. Melgoss and Dick are older than I am. I doubt more than a handful of other regulars on this forum are.
There's no question that the post to which you replied was absurdly dismissive and narrow-viewed. Your comparison of how lesser devices are often chosen over traditional and possibly even technically superior alternatives was good.
Where things went sideways for me was your implication that those who are NOT willing to compromise performance in exchange for convenience or other economies are out-of-touch. If that's what you meant, it was as insulting and narrow-minded as that to which you were responding, and if not the result of the embarrassing ignorance of youth, you should know better.
Re-reading your post in context now, I can see that you MAY have been trying to say that anyone who refuses to recognize any value in something that is obviously very popular, even if it is not well suited to their own needs, likely belongs to the group of duddies who tend towards fuddiness. That's not the way it came across, though.
Originally Posted by nht
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=MBP+screen+real+estate
Not even close.
Let me know when there's a "Let Me Bing That For You" site. I'm not clicking any Google links anymore.
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I didn't know anyone thought 10 finger typing onto a touch screen was a viable option.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
I remember that video! Thought to myself, "Finally, not only is there someone else who touch-types on their iPad, it's someone right in an Apple video!"
And if you're still skeptical, I've posted a video to YouTube recently that shows my exploits in this regard. I've been doing it for years on my iPad.
Originally Posted by hmm
You're either too old or just making things up. Given the number of iphones and other idevices out there relative to Macs, why would anyone believe you need a Mac to use one? Apple has always been extremely approachable. They're not remotely intimidating to technophobes, so why would people buy into the idea that you require a Mac to use an iphone?
You're just lost in the intelligence. I'm saying you've been here too long; you take for granted things that the layman wouldn't ever know.
People can be that stupid, is what I'm hinting at. I get all manner of questions on a regular basis that would have made me want to rip my hair out in earlier days. I suppose I'm used to it now.
I don't see why anyone would buy a device and not use it. Why would such a trend continue?
Because they use it as a phone, nothing more. You can't really buy a phone from the telecoms these days; they're shoving smartphones down our throats simply to sell disgusting data plans. So someone who'd have a flip phone otherwise now has the bottom of the barrel Android whatever, and he uses it as just a phone. No rooting, no apps, and probably not even any e-mail.
Back pocket is just wrong.
So every time you get in a car or sit down you remove your phone from your back pocket to avoid breaking the glass? Sounds like you already use a giant phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
People can be that stupid, is what I'm hinting at. I get all manner of questions on a regular basis that would have made me want to rip my hair out in earlier days. I suppose I'm used to it now.
I once spent an hour trying to explain to someone why a single RAID 5 unit isn't simultaneous storage and backup. I think I encounter willful ignorance more than stupidity, or the attempt to apply common logic without entirely understanding the parameters of the subject. (edit: I'm not an expert on that subject, but I do look things up rather than applying false logic) I would have expected to see some people expect that a Mac would be necessary during the early ipod era. Itunes wasn't immediately available for Windows, so it is quite possible. These days the number of iphones and ipads combined greatly dwarfs the number of recent Macs. I'd assume a lot of people, especially outside the US think of the iphone first when they think of Apple. I don't know how strong the association with the Macs is aside from those of us that have used them for a significant number of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because they use it as a phone, nothing more. You can't really buy a phone from the telecoms these days; they're shoving smartphones down our throats simply to sell disgusting data plans. So someone who'd have a flip phone otherwise now has the bottom of the barrel Android whatever, and he uses it as just a phone. No rooting, no apps, and probably not even any e-mail.
Well you have a few low end options per carrier if you look. Pre-paid plans also offer a few very basic phones. In both cases it is still possible to buy a phone without data or even text. They became mandatory add-ons in the US due to the high cost of subsidies. Some blackberries were considerably subsidized if I remember correctly, but older stuff like the ones Palm released after they annexed Handspring weren't $200 up front. You still these constantly in metropolitan areas. One of the unpleasant side effects of smartphones was the amount of data required to keep them functional. The older ones could survive on far leaner data plans or much of the time wifi. If you needed directions, you downloaded them prior to getting in the car. It's not as convenient, but it's unfortunate that you don't have many phone options that will allow something like that now without a data plan.
I'm pretty sure web servers don't care whether the data came through WiFi or cellular any more than web servers care whether the client made a request over wired ethernet or WiFi, it's all IP end to end. The user agent ID does tell us good information about the client device, I've not seen one that say which interface it used to send the IP packets.
I really don't know what the problem is that constrains web usage of Android devices, but something is up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Let me know when there's a "Let Me Bing That For You" site. I'm not clicking any Google links anymore.
http://lmbtfy.com/?q=MBP+screen+real+estate
Originally Posted by nht
http://lmbtfy.com/?q=MBP+screen+real+estate
Wow. I don't know why I'm surprised!
You're still wrong, but that's cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Wow. I don't know why I'm surprised!
Well you COULD have just bing'd it...or use Lougle (which, alas doesn't really exist even if there is a Facebook page).
I brought this up in a previous thread. There absolutely is a relationship to wifi and the upside down web stats for Android. I'm suggesting Android users by in large are most likely people without home wifi or convenient access to corporate wifi because they have a different level of employment, affluence or disposable income. They likely shy away from cellular data usage for fear of overage charges.
The web server doesn't care how the client accesses the data but the server logs can definitely tell the story if the webmasters cared to do the analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I didn't know anyone thought 10 finger typing onto a touch screen was a viable option.
As an aside, I had a laugh at one of the iPad ads earlier this year where a girl took her eyes off the iPad while typing. They didn't show what was on the screen, but I really doubt anything coherent can be typed without watching what's getting put into the device. There is no tactile feedback to make eyes-off typing useful.
I was thinking about this one. It's not just tactile feedback to me. I can't stand things that lack a range of motion for heavier use. It feels weird, and I'm not sure whether it's healthy. If I had a virtual keyboard kind of ui on a tablet, assuming it was easy to pull up, I'd most likely use it for hotkeys. I use tons of them in every application as I can't stand clicking menu bars. People find that weird, but I find it to be much faster. I probably have at least 30 for applications where general typing is not required. It probably wouldn't work that well with a smaller tablet. I'm still thinking of the giant Wacoms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I'm pretty sure web servers don't care whether the data came through WiFi or cellular any more than web servers care whether the client made a request over wired ethernet or WiFi, it's all IP end to end. The user agent ID does tell us good information about the client device, I've not seen one that say which interface it used to send the IP packets.
I really don't know what the problem is that constrains web usage of Android devices, but something is up.
I wasn't aware of how the web usage statistics were sampled like if they're going by page hits, gigabytes, etc. I remember a lot of the earlier smartphone designs. If the input is good and the device isn't laggy, it's hard for me to see them as unusable.
But WiFi or cellular, your hit should be equally visible in the logs. I don't buy the suggestion that WiFi users aren't in the logs or just buried somewhere else, I don't see why that would happen, or what reason the tracking companies would be biased like that. The physical link is irrelevant from a logging standpoint, a hit is a hit. I highly doubt the logging software is giving one link type preference and not logging another. The User Agent ID will be the same either way. My hosting company makes it clear what percentage of hits are coming from Android devices period.
By that token, you'd think there'd be fishyness in the stats if some users had DSL vs. Cable and the web server stat counters simply ignored a whole class of users.