Smartphones are becoming a commodity, regardless if Apple doesn't want that to happen. Apple created the market, now others are moving in. larger screens, lower cost, Apple cannot sit still and proudly wave their iPhone and take the intellectual high ground while others each up their market share. Apple needs to keep people in their ecosystem, offering great products, but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best." They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores. The formula for success is now obvious to others and Apple needs to compete. And I watched Sculley almost destroy Apple, but he has a point to make here that others have pointed out as well.
... Apple did answer the netbook question, with the introduction of the iPad. ...
In the meantime, it's at least somewhat encouraging that most of the posts here, even those who disagree with Sculley such as yourself, disagree only with how Apple will avoid marginalization through its one-size-fits-all form factor it currently offers, but not the value of pursuing other ways of addressing it.
It seems we all agree there are ways to regain the lost market share, and it'll be interesting to see how they choose to do it.
No, the iPad does not address the netbook question. It's not a different answer to the same question. That's what the Surface is. It's a different answer to a different question. Apple isn't going to have any trouble avoiding "marginalization", because they aren't at risk of marginalization. And, in the cheap cell phone market, which is most of Android, there isn't any lost market share for Apple, just like there wasn't any lost market share for them in the netbook market. Market share that is worthless, isn't market share worth having. Just ask Dell and HP. Why compete for less than table scraps? The ecosystems? There is no ecosystem in the cheap cell phone market.
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
So based on what you consider "Spot on" you believe it is good for consumers to spend more than what they can really afford? Based on being the great economic guru(sarcasm) how is good for the economy when people to be spending more than they can afford?
Also elite went out the window a long time ago. Steve Jobs said Apple would never sell a computer for 500.00 Apple never wanted that business. Yet when personal computer numbers come out everyone on this forum gets pissed because they don't include the iPad. So is the iPad a personal computer or not? If so then Apple is selling million of personal computers at 499.00
When the iPhone was released Steve Jobs said that free phones are free because that is all they are worth. Odd because an iPhone can be had for free with a contract. Not an iPhone 5 but still an iPhone
iPhone 5 being sold at Walmart with Straight Talk. Unlimited Talk, Text and Data for 45.00 no contract, that just smells elite. If owning an iPhone makes someone elite then there are millions and millions of 15 year old kids that are elite.
Smartphones are becoming a commodity, regardless if Apple doesn't want that to happen. Apple created the market, now others are moving in. larger screens, lower cost, Apple cannot sit still and proudly wave their iPhone and take the intellectual high ground while others each up their market share. Apple needs to keep people in their ecosystem, offering great products, but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best." They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores. The formula for success is now obvious to others and Apple needs to compete. And I watched Sculley almost destroy Apple, but he has a point to make here that others have pointed out as well.
And if Tim Cook does this are all the naysayers here going to call for him to be fired? Having a strategy for emerging markets is not equivalent to participating in a race to the bottom. No one here is suggesting Apple start making crappy phones. :rolleyes:
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
How exactly are you defining "cheap"? Low cost or low quality? Or are you suggesting for Apple to make a lower cost iPhone it would have to be low quality?
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.
"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."
—Steve Jobs
—2008
—Referring to laptops only
—Guess they've learned something since then, anyway.
"Asked about PC prices in the current economy and the new netbook category that is "getting a lot of hype", Jobs said "well, again, this particular downturn is not creating a market of cheaper computers. That market has existed for some time. And there are parts of that market that we choose not to play in.""
This was in context when it came to Apple going after the netbook market. On this site there are hundreds if not thousand of posts proclaiming that the iPad is what killed the netbook market. Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market.
My key point is Apple played the elite market card when they couldn't get a market share worth talking about, when you sell hundreds of millions of iPhone a year and millions of iPads a year your products while being of high quality are not longer only for the elite. The elite is what long time Apple owners hold onto to try and feel like they are still thinking differently.
If owning an iPhone makes someone elite then I need to reconsider my opinion of the lady standing in line in front of me at the market with 12 kids using her EBT card while texting on her iPhone. When she went 10.00 over she didn't have ten dollars but she was still texting on her iPhone.
Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.
No, because Verizon isn't getting those phones for free. You pay for it with your contract. The market under discussion is a cheap phone the consumer pays for in a non-contract market. Completely different markets.
Products of nearly any kind come in a variety of forms and price points. Some are high-end, some are low-end, with a good many in between.
All cars, regardless how cheap or expensive, run on gas.
All smartphones, regardless how cheap or expensive, run apps.
You may see Apple's continued declining market share as inevitable, but I disagree.
I believe Apple is smarter than you describe. They will not cede market even more market share to the competition without introducing something that will stop that decline.
Let's meet back here in a year and see how it worked out.
Comments
Smartphones are becoming a commodity, regardless if Apple doesn't want that to happen. Apple created the market, now others are moving in. larger screens, lower cost, Apple cannot sit still and proudly wave their iPhone and take the intellectual high ground while others each up their market share. Apple needs to keep people in their ecosystem, offering great products, but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best." They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores. The formula for success is now obvious to others and Apple needs to compete. And I watched Sculley almost destroy Apple, but he has a point to make here that others have pointed out as well.
Why in the world does anyone listen to his opinion?? Must be a very slow news day . . .
Originally Posted by mickeymantle
…but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best."
iPhone 4S. iPhone 4.
They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores.
So an iPhone without apps would be a pretty bad idea, then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
... Apple did answer the netbook question, with the introduction of the iPad. ...
In the meantime, it's at least somewhat encouraging that most of the posts here, even those who disagree with Sculley such as yourself, disagree only with how Apple will avoid marginalization through its one-size-fits-all form factor it currently offers, but not the value of pursuing other ways of addressing it.
It seems we all agree there are ways to regain the lost market share, and it'll be interesting to see how they choose to do it.
No, the iPad does not address the netbook question. It's not a different answer to the same question. That's what the Surface is. It's a different answer to a different question. Apple isn't going to have any trouble avoiding "marginalization", because they aren't at risk of marginalization. And, in the cheap cell phone market, which is most of Android, there isn't any lost market share for Apple, just like there wasn't any lost market share for them in the netbook market. Market share that is worthless, isn't market share worth having. Just ask Dell and HP. Why compete for less than table scraps? The ecosystems? There is no ecosystem in the cheap cell phone market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle
Smartphones are becoming a commodity...
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Spot on.
So based on what you consider "Spot on" you believe it is good for consumers to spend more than what they can really afford? Based on being the great economic guru(sarcasm) how is good for the economy when people to be spending more than they can afford?
Also elite went out the window a long time ago. Steve Jobs said Apple would never sell a computer for 500.00 Apple never wanted that business. Yet when personal computer numbers come out everyone on this forum gets pissed because they don't include the iPad. So is the iPad a personal computer or not? If so then Apple is selling million of personal computers at 499.00
When the iPhone was released Steve Jobs said that free phones are free because that is all they are worth. Odd because an iPhone can be had for free with a contract. Not an iPhone 5 but still an iPhone
iPhone 5 being sold at Walmart with Straight Talk. Unlimited Talk, Text and Data for 45.00 no contract, that just smells elite. If owning an iPhone makes someone elite then there are millions and millions of 15 year old kids that are elite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
... Steve Jobs said Apple would never sell a computer for 500.00...
Steve Jobs never said that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Steve Jobs never said that.
Yes he did.
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Steve Jobs said Apple would never sell a computer for 500.00…
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Yes he did.
Not in the slightest.
"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."
—Steve Jobs
—2008
—Referring to laptops only
—Guess they've learned something since then, anyway.
Hey John, nobody cares. You had your shot.
Well, that settles it then, doesn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Not in the slightest.
"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."
—Steve Jobs
—2008
—Referring to laptops only
—Guess they've learned something since then, anyway.
"Asked about PC prices in the current economy and the new netbook category that is "getting a lot of hype", Jobs said "well, again, this particular downturn is not creating a market of cheaper computers. That market has existed for some time. And there are parts of that market that we choose not to play in.""
This was in context when it came to Apple going after the netbook market. On this site there are hundreds if not thousand of posts proclaiming that the iPad is what killed the netbook market. Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market.
My key point is Apple played the elite market card when they couldn't get a market share worth talking about, when you sell hundreds of millions of iPhone a year and millions of iPads a year your products while being of high quality are not longer only for the elite. The elite is what long time Apple owners hold onto to try and feel like they are still thinking differently.
If owning an iPhone makes someone elite then I need to reconsider my opinion of the lady standing in line in front of me at the market with 12 kids using her EBT card while texting on her iPhone. When she went 10.00 over she didn't have ten dollars but she was still texting on her iPhone.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
... Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market. ...
No he didn't, he created a new market, and the market you're talking about evaporated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.
No, because Verizon isn't getting those phones for free. You pay for it with your contract. The market under discussion is a cheap phone the consumer pays for in a non-contract market. Completely different markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Products of nearly any kind come in a variety of forms and price points. Some are high-end, some are low-end, with a good many in between.
All cars, regardless how cheap or expensive, run on gas.
All smartphones, regardless how cheap or expensive, run apps.
You may see Apple's continued declining market share as inevitable, but I disagree.
I believe Apple is smarter than you describe. They will not cede market even more market share to the competition without introducing something that will stop that decline.
Let's meet back here in a year and see how it worked out.
See you then, you won't be missed.