How exactly are you defining "cheap"? Low cost or low quality? Or are you suggesting for Apple to make a lower cost iPhone it would have to be low quality?
In the context of this discussion, yes. They aren't going to start making the netbooks of smartphones.
This was in context when it came to Apple going after the netbook market. On this site there are hundreds if not thousand of posts proclaiming that the iPad is what killed the netbook market. Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market.
No, really, you're pretending that netbooks and tablets are the same thing. You're actually doing this.
That's like saying, "since the iPhone killed the dumbphone market, the iPhone must be a dumbphone".
I didn't say Apple should make crappy phones, but a less expensive smart phone for what has become a commodity market. This market is going to get more competitive with BB10, Nokia and others wanting to get in, and where do they get in except at the bottom by offering features for less money. Let's stop the market erosion and keep consumers in the ecosystem. As far as what happens to Cook when they come out with this, it will a magnificent strategy properly aimed at its target market to keep Apple in front of their worldwide consumer base, while moving on with new products that continue to impress and create profitable growth.
Smartphones are becoming a commodity, regardless if Apple doesn't want that to happen. Apple created the market, now others are moving in. larger screens, lower cost, Apple cannot sit still and proudly wave their iPhone and take the intellectual high ground while others each up their market share. Apple needs to keep people in their ecosystem, offering great products, but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best." They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores. The formula for success is now obvious to others and Apple needs to compete.
When has Apple ever done the obvious?
Obvious: exit the hardware business and license your OS to clone makers
Apple: become even more vertically integrated from chips to software
Obvious: shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders
Apple: iMac, Mac OS X, iPod
Obvious: electronics retail is hurting with the closing of circuit city, computer city, CompUSA
Apple: opens and expands the Apple Store
Obvious: "nobody will pay for songs because of rampant piracy"
Apple: iTunes Music Store dominates music retail
Obvious: "Floppy disks and optical drives are so inexpensive, why not include it?"
Apple: removes built-in floppy and optical drives fearlessly
Obvious: USB 3.0, DVI
Apple: Thunderbolt,Thunderbolt
Obvious: integrate iPod functionality into a phone; Motorola ROKR
Apple: iPhone
Obvious: Netbook
Apple: iPad
Obvious: you can't do email on a phone without a physical keyboard
Apple: no physical keyboard
Obvious: tablet should use a stylus in place of a mouse
Apple: tablet should use a multitouch screen with a natively touch UI
Obvious: keep using the 30-pin dock connector as it is a de facto standard
Apple: Lightning connector
Obvious: Pros want 17" laptops with high resolution screens
Apple: ends MacBook Pro 17"
Obvious: the PC market is racing to the bottom and margins are getting razor thin
Apple: still selling Macs over $1000 and $2000
Obvious: sell the iPad Mini for $299
Apple: iPad Mini starts at $329
Obvious: Add touch screen and stylus input to Wintel laptops
Apple: MacBooks keep focused on mouse/keyboard input
Obvious: keep making phone screens larger regardless of how impractical it becomes
Apple: iPhone 5
My opinion is that I don't think this guy is worth listening to.
Luxury customers are Apple's intended audience. These are the same people who don't even think twice about dropping a fortune on a Lexus or buying a multi-milliondollar home. They don't care what the product costs, nor do they care how much money an app costs to "unlock all the hidden costs", which is why developers target the iOS devices. If you want to make money, you target the iOS and Mac OSX devices first.
When you watch television in the US, what do you see? Apple gear. Not Samsung. Samsung has no unique styling that someone could immediately identify and go "Cool that CSI guy uses a Samsung phone, I want one." No instead you see all the cool Apple gear.
Android devices are stuck in an ironic position, being linux devices but not being open. They're subject to a bunch of hypocrisy surrounding GPL and open-source fans. Those that politically believe that their toys should be hackable, and those that believe that because it's hackable, no software is worth paying for.
Take a look at the web statistics of any website. http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php iOS outnumbers Android, 2:1 or better, yet the shipped numbers seem to be reversed. Just where is 50% of the Android phones being shipped going? Some landfill?
That's easy when you have protection behind your computer. Question is are you man enough to do it in person without having your teeth handed too you? You are a tiny little weak man hiding behind is MBP. See how easy it is to stay something stupid and base an opinion on someone because you don't like their view on a stupid Apple enthusiast forum.
That's easy when you have protection behind your computer. Question is are you man enough to do it in person without having your teeth handed too you? You are a tiny little weak man hiding behind is MBP. See how easy it is to stay something stupid and base an opinion on someone because you don't like their view on a stupid Apple enthusiast forum.
At least make an attempt to grow up.
Easy guys. Easy. It's a discussion about a f*ckin' phone.
Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.
Really? So you can get me an iPhone 4 for free? Where? I'll take 5.
Signing a two year contract at a premium price with mandatory data plan is not free. The discussion about low cost phones revolves around developing countries which don't use the "we'll get our money back two fold by hiding the cost in the monthly plan" model.
Having a smaller percentage or wealthy or having a much larger percentage of poor does not mean they don't have a huge number of people that can easily afford Apple's products. Asia-Pacifici now has more millions (based on USD) than the US.
I read somewhere that the middle class in China is greater in numbers (not in percentages, of course) than the US middle class. There's plenty of demand for Apple products in Asia without introducing a loss-leader bargain basement product. The launch of the iPhone 5 demonstrates that quite nicely.
This is a good argument for a cheaper iPhone. I personally would love to see Apple completely replace all iPod touches with a cheaper than 5S iPhone.
I wouldn't. The iPod touch still sells in the millions every quarter because there is still significant market demand for a standalone media/internet/gaming device that does not require monthly voice/data plan charges. Plus, it expands the market reach for iOS to include those segments not covered by the iPhone (e.g., customers on unsupported carriers, prepaid customers, family plan customers on a different platform, customers that do not want cell service, etc.). Taken just as a gaming device, the iPod touch (and the wi-fi iPad models) competes directly with the PSP and Nintendo DS platforms, while simultaneously supplementing Apple's user base in the mobile OS space. Android and the other mobile OSes do not have anything equivalent to the iPod touch, or at least anything that sells anywhere near the iPod touch's numbers.
How much cheaper are you thinking? An iPod touch starts at $200 -- no contract, no monthly fee. The cheapest unsubsidized iPhone will run you $450.
An iPod touch with the A6 chip starts at $300, while an unsubsidized iPhone 5 starts at $650. What would Apple need to cut out in order to migrate the iPhone to a price point where it can feasibly replace the iPod touch?
I read somewhere that the middle class in China is greater in numbers (not in percentages, of course) than the US middle class. There's plenty of demand for Apple products in Asia without introducing a loss-leader bargain basement product. The launch of the iPhone 5 demonstrates that quite nicely.
I thought I had read that, too, but couldn't find any source to back it up so I excluded it. What I can say is that the middle class is growing and a fast rate which is a reason Apple (any many other companies) should be focusing more attention on them.
I thought I had read that, too, but couldn't find any source to back it up so I excluded it. What I can say is that the middle class is growing and a fast rate which is a reason Apple (any many other companies) should be focusing more attention on them.
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.
If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up? Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps?
Therefore to make iOS the platform standard that continues to be developed on first, you have to have massive market share. Therefore you need to be selling a phone that makes it the standard and is a revenue generator from the hundreds of millions (even billions) of users buying apps.
Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.
So why would Apple make a phone that can't run them?
If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up? Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps?
Well, depending on whose numbers you believe, iOS has 1/2 to 1/3 the marketshare of Android. And yet developers make more money on, have less piracy on, are more satisfied with, and flock toward iOS, rather than Android.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
How exactly are you defining "cheap"? Low cost or low quality? Or are you suggesting for Apple to make a lower cost iPhone it would have to be low quality?
In the context of this discussion, yes. They aren't going to start making the netbooks of smartphones.
Originally Posted by extremeskater
This was in context when it came to Apple going after the netbook market. On this site there are hundreds if not thousand of posts proclaiming that the iPad is what killed the netbook market. Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market.
No, really, you're pretending that netbooks and tablets are the same thing. You're actually doing this.
That's like saying, "since the iPhone killed the dumbphone market, the iPhone must be a dumbphone".
I didn't say Apple should make crappy phones, but a less expensive smart phone for what has become a commodity market. This market is going to get more competitive with BB10, Nokia and others wanting to get in, and where do they get in except at the bottom by offering features for less money. Let's stop the market erosion and keep consumers in the ecosystem. As far as what happens to Cook when they come out with this, it will a magnificent strategy properly aimed at its target market to keep Apple in front of their worldwide consumer base, while moving on with new products that continue to impress and create profitable growth.
When has Apple ever done the obvious?
Obvious: exit the hardware business and license your OS to clone makers
Apple: become even more vertically integrated from chips to software
Obvious: shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders
Apple: iMac, Mac OS X, iPod
Obvious: electronics retail is hurting with the closing of circuit city, computer city, CompUSA
Apple: opens and expands the Apple Store
Obvious: "nobody will pay for songs because of rampant piracy"
Apple: iTunes Music Store dominates music retail
Obvious: "Floppy disks and optical drives are so inexpensive, why not include it?"
Apple: removes built-in floppy and optical drives fearlessly
Obvious: USB 3.0, DVI
Apple: Thunderbolt,Thunderbolt
Obvious: integrate iPod functionality into a phone; Motorola ROKR
Apple: iPhone
Obvious: Netbook
Apple: iPad
Obvious: you can't do email on a phone without a physical keyboard
Apple: no physical keyboard
Obvious: tablet should use a stylus in place of a mouse
Apple: tablet should use a multitouch screen with a natively touch UI
Obvious: keep using the 30-pin dock connector as it is a de facto standard
Apple: Lightning connector
Obvious: Pros want 17" laptops with high resolution screens
Apple: ends MacBook Pro 17"
Obvious: the PC market is racing to the bottom and margins are getting razor thin
Apple: still selling Macs over $1000 and $2000
Obvious: sell the iPad Mini for $299
Apple: iPad Mini starts at $329
Obvious: Add touch screen and stylus input to Wintel laptops
Apple: MacBooks keep focused on mouse/keyboard input
Obvious: keep making phone screens larger regardless of how impractical it becomes
Apple: iPhone 5
Obvious: add apps to a TV
Apple: TBD
deleted
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Obvious: USB 3.0, VGA
Apple: Thunderbolt,Thunderbolt
Fixed, embarrassingly (for the rest of the industry).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
You just don't do polite conversation, do you?
Not with those I don't respect.
Luxury customers are Apple's intended audience. These are the same people who don't even think twice about dropping a fortune on a Lexus or buying a multi-milliondollar home. They don't care what the product costs, nor do they care how much money an app costs to "unlock all the hidden costs", which is why developers target the iOS devices. If you want to make money, you target the iOS and Mac OSX devices first.
When you watch television in the US, what do you see? Apple gear. Not Samsung. Samsung has no unique styling that someone could immediately identify and go "Cool that CSI guy uses a Samsung phone, I want one." No instead you see all the cool Apple gear.
Android devices are stuck in an ironic position, being linux devices but not being open. They're subject to a bunch of hypocrisy surrounding GPL and open-source fans. Those that politically believe that their toys should be hackable, and those that believe that because it's hackable, no software is worth paying for.
Take a look at the web statistics of any website. http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php iOS outnumbers Android, 2:1 or better, yet the shipped numbers seem to be reversed. Just where is 50% of the Android phones being shipped going? Some landfill?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Not with those I don't respect.
That's easy when you have protection behind your computer. Question is are you man enough to do it in person without having your teeth handed too you? You are a tiny little weak man hiding behind is MBP. See how easy it is to stay something stupid and base an opinion on someone because you don't like their view on a stupid Apple enthusiast forum.
At least make an attempt to grow up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
That's easy when you have protection behind your computer. Question is are you man enough to do it in person without having your teeth handed too you? You are a tiny little weak man hiding behind is MBP. See how easy it is to stay something stupid and base an opinion on someone because you don't like their view on a stupid Apple enthusiast forum.
At least make an attempt to grow up.
Easy guys. Easy. It's a discussion about a f*ckin' phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Easy guys. Easy. It's a discussion about a f*ckin' phone.
Pay no attention, he has anger management issues.
deleted
Really? So you can get me an iPhone 4 for free? Where? I'll take 5.
Signing a two year contract at a premium price with mandatory data plan is not free. The discussion about low cost phones revolves around developing countries which don't use the "we'll get our money back two fold by hiding the cost in the monthly plan" model.
I read somewhere that the middle class in China is greater in numbers (not in percentages, of course) than the US middle class. There's plenty of demand for Apple products in Asia without introducing a loss-leader bargain basement product. The launch of the iPhone 5 demonstrates that quite nicely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy
I'm more interested in what Gil Amelio has to say...
I prefer to take advice from Woz...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
This is a good argument for a cheaper iPhone. I personally would love to see Apple completely replace all iPod touches with a cheaper than 5S iPhone.
I wouldn't. The iPod touch still sells in the millions every quarter because there is still significant market demand for a standalone media/internet/gaming device that does not require monthly voice/data plan charges. Plus, it expands the market reach for iOS to include those segments not covered by the iPhone (e.g., customers on unsupported carriers, prepaid customers, family plan customers on a different platform, customers that do not want cell service, etc.). Taken just as a gaming device, the iPod touch (and the wi-fi iPad models) competes directly with the PSP and Nintendo DS platforms, while simultaneously supplementing Apple's user base in the mobile OS space. Android and the other mobile OSes do not have anything equivalent to the iPod touch, or at least anything that sells anywhere near the iPod touch's numbers.
How much cheaper are you thinking? An iPod touch starts at $200 -- no contract, no monthly fee. The cheapest unsubsidized iPhone will run you $450.
An iPod touch with the A6 chip starts at $300, while an unsubsidized iPhone 5 starts at $650. What would Apple need to cut out in order to migrate the iPhone to a price point where it can feasibly replace the iPod touch?
I thought I had read that, too, but couldn't find any source to back it up so I excluded it. What I can say is that the middle class is growing and a fast rate which is a reason Apple (any many other companies) should be focusing more attention on them.
I mis-stated. It's not just larger than the US Middle Class, it's larger than the entire US population:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/25/news/economy/china-middle-class/index.htm
And this sheds some light on the future:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/09/05/within-a-generation-china-middle-class-four-times-larger-than-americas/
In the end, it's a mistake to think of China as an impoverished country full of drones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.
If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up? Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps?
Therefore to make iOS the platform standard that continues to be developed on first, you have to have massive market share. Therefore you need to be selling a phone that makes it the standard and is a revenue generator from the hundreds of millions (even billions) of users buying apps.
Originally Posted by realwarder
Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.
So why would Apple make a phone that can't run them?
If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up? Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps?
Well, depending on whose numbers you believe, iOS has 1/2 to 1/3 the marketshare of Android. And yet developers make more money on, have less piracy on, are more satisfied with, and flock toward iOS, rather than Android.