Apple CEO Tim Cook on Android growth: 'Success is not making the most'

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  • Reply 141 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Basic isn't what I said.


     


    Basic is the choice Apple is offering.


     


    And a pricey hubris that may yet come back to haunt them.


     


    We shall see.


     


    Affordable is what they have done with eg the iPod line as an Example.  They have, historically, BEEN there.  See what Mel' said.


     


    And they 'could' do it again.


     


    We'll SEE if they want to.


     


    That doesn't mean 'cheap.'  But we know they can do 'CHEAPER.'


     


    How many Apple fans would have defended Apple at £1000 for an iPad?


     


    Yet Apple blew away all conception of this when it suited them.  They grabbed the iPad market by the balls with an astonishing £399 iPad.  £600 plus cheaper!


     


    They CAN or COULD give consumers a better deal.  And go 'upsell' from there.


     


    It's something they do well in the iPad and iPod markets.


     


    iPhone?  Not so much.  Though 4s sales have done better than expected.


     


    Desktop prices need work.


     


    They need a more affordable laptop.


     


    How they get there...up to Apple.


     


    Lemon Bon Bon.



    I would think the best way to compare the current models with the older ones that were "cheaper" is what Apple's margins were then vs now. I have no idea what the answer is, but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone have data on this?

  • Reply 142 of 201
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    Refined fructose, mate.

    Lemon Bon Bon. :P

    I call it Bolivian Marching Powder.
  • Reply 143 of 201

    Quote:


    Those that purchase contract free phones do what for data? Either buy pay as you go, or sign up with a carrier. 


     


    You people drive me crazy with your Microsoft thinking.  


     


    *people using pay as you go are NOT looking for smart phones. 



    Really now, that is just bull.  I just moved from an iphone 4 on AT&T to a pay as you go plan (and no, I didn't buy an apple phone partially because of the cost).  I also know others who either currently use smart phones on pay as you go networks, or who are thinking about it.  The reason for this should be obvious:  cost!


     


    The major carriers subsidize phones heavily, but to do this they jack their prices up to insane rates, and charge you ridiculous fees for every "overage" they can think of.  How much does a new iphone cost you per month on VZ or ATT?  Assuming you go with a minimal texting plan, you're looking at $75 to $80 a month minimum.  If you want unlimited texts and more minutes you're looking at closer to $100. 


     


    Now lets compare this to pay as you go plans.  I switched to a plan for $40 a month with unlimited text and talk, and 250MB of 4g data a month.  If i wanted more data, for $50 a month I could get 2GB of data, or $60 for unlimited.  The savings by going to pay as you go are huge (especially if you're not part of a family plan).  Even assuming a $55 plan, you're likely saving over $20 a month.  Sure you pay up front for your phone, but (if you don't go the apple route) that isn't too bad.  I picked up a new Galaxy S3 for $400 . . . That's cheaper than buying a new iPhone4!


     


    If more people start realizing how much the carriers are ripping them off by subsidizing phones and tying them into expensive contracts, apple's model will be in trouble.  However for the time being they're making a killing, and I can't blame them for not releasing a lower end phone to address the other markets.


     


    Phil

  • Reply 144 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by philgar View Post


    Really now, that is just bull.  I just moved from an iphone 4 on AT&T to a pay as you go plan (and no, I didn't buy an apple phone partially because of the cost).  I also know others who either currently use smart phones on pay as you go networks, or who are thinking about it.  The reason for this should be obvious:  cost!


     


    The major carriers subsidize phones heavily, but to do this they jack their prices up to insane rates, and charge you ridiculous fees for every "overage" they can think of.  How much does a new iphone cost you per month on VZ or ATT?  Assuming you go with a minimal texting plan, you're looking at $75 to $80 a month minimum.  If you want unlimited texts and more minutes you're looking at closer to $100. 


     


    Now lets compare this to pay as you go plans.  I switched to a plan for $40 a month with unlimited text and talk, and 250MB of 4g data a month.  If i wanted more data, for $50 a month I could get 2GB of data, or $60 for unlimited.  The savings by going to pay as you go are huge (especially if you're not part of a family plan).  Even assuming a $55 plan, you're likely saving over $20 a month.  Sure you pay up front for your phone, but (if you don't go the apple route) that isn't too bad.  I picked up a new Galaxy S3 for $400 . . . That's cheaper than buying a new iPhone4!


     


    If more people start realizing how much the carriers are ripping them off by subsidizing phones and tying them into expensive contracts, apple's model will be in trouble.  However for the time being they're making a killing, and I can't blame them for not releasing a lower end phone to address the other markets.


     


    Phil



     


    I'm sorry, I must not understand what Pay As You Go is vs. a Plan. 


     


    Pay As You Go == You buy X minutes and that is what you get. Once the minutes are done, you buy more or you don't have a phone. No monthly anything. 


     


    You stated "I switched to a plan for $40 a month" which is a plan, so your point is lost right from the start. 


     


    Second, you stated that you purchased a phone for $400. Again, you can do that on any carrier if you are willing to pay the price of the phone. 


     


    Brings me to my last point. Apple is a luxury brand that cost more than other phones. If you are not wanting to pay that, no worry, buy a cheaper phone, use a cheaper plan and SAVE money! 


     


    And just in case you missed it; Apple is not in the business of saving you money, or going after the price conscience consumer. 


     


    And yes, I pay $100/month for ATT and once a carrier has the same coverage and features (being able to talk and surf at the same time) I will consider switching. 


     


    P.S.


     


    I've always said an iPhone that was internet WiFi only and thus saving on a data plan would be ideal. 

  • Reply 145 of 201
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


     


    You do realize that Apple *IS* a luxury brand, right? 


     


    Do you go around to all the luxury brand websites and tell them they need to sell cheaper products to the developing nations? 


     


    What is your hatred with Apple being who they are? They ARE a luxury brand. Always have been, always will be. Get over it. 



    I don't think you understand my comments at all.


     


    Apple is a consumer electronics manufacturer.


     


    They are not like Gucci, Rolls Royce, etc.


     


    An Internet-based consumer product line cannot survive as a niche market.


     


    iOS is a platform that requires millions of customers to remain sustainable.


     


    If Android takes over the developing world market share they have won.


     


    Therefore Apple needs to compete with an iPhone Lite or die.


     


    It is all about China right now but there is another huge continent or two in the developing world.


     


    Modern western countries are going to be the minority markets in the coming decades.


     


    Adapt or die. Evolution 101.

  • Reply 146 of 201
    . While Android has grown exponentially on smartphones, through multiple carriers and manufacturers, Google's mobile platform has not had the same success in the tablet market, where Apple's iPad is dominant.


    Not until google start subsidizing tablets so heavy that the will be almost free to get.
  • Reply 147 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't think you understand my comments at all.


     


    Apple is a consumer electronics manufacturer.


     


    They are not like Gucci, Rolls Royce, etc.


     


    An Internet-based consumer product line cannot survive as a niche market.


     


    iOS is a platform that requires millions of customers to remain sustainable.


     


    If Android takes over the developing world market share they have won.


     


    Therefore Apple needs to compete with an iPhone Lite or die.


     


    It is all about China right now but there is another huge continent or two in the developing world.


     


    Modern western countries are going to be the minority markets in the coming decades.


     


    Adapt or die. Evolution 101.



     


    I did, but you don't understand Apple or acknowledge that they are $140 Billion solvent and one of the largest companies in the world because they do what they do. 


     


    They are a luxury brand, just not at the price of a RR. I hope I do not have to explain what luxury is, right? 


     


    An Internet-based consumer product line cannot survive as a niche market.


     


    And why not? 


     


    iOS is a platform that requires millions of customers to remain sustainable.


     


    Just like OSX requires mass adoption to remain sustainable? Sustainability is just that, the ability to keep oneself going. As Apple charges a premium for their products, I believe they have enough money to keep iOS going in spite of competition. Not true for the competition however. 


     


    Therefore Apple needs to compete with an iPhone Lite or die.


     


    LMAO! Apple only needs to keep selling products we are willing to stand in line for hours to purchase. And they do, so we do, so they will continue to do fine. 


     


    It is all about China right now but there is another huge continent or two in the developing world.


     


    And those in China wanting a luxury phone (and bragging rights) will buy the iPhone. 


     


    Modern western countries are going to be the minority markets in the coming decades.


     


    Apple is well aware of their consumers and how to market to them. 


     


    Adapt or die. Evolution 101.


     


    Evolution LMAO again! 

  • Reply 148 of 201
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,705member
    512ke wrote: »
    I think this is a GREAT strategy.  Really and truly, just BRILLIANT!

    1) Tell your shareholders you don't give a **** about how many items you sell, to let them know you really could care less if the share price tanks.

    2) Let the other guys/Samsungs run you down in ads.  

    3( Let them take away your market share.  

    Have it be an EXACT repeat of Windows eating Mac's lunch back in the day.  Let Android gain the majority of share so that developers will go to them.

    The difference between the PC wars and now is that Apple wasn't making money back then. Apple can say they had 70% of the mobile profits.
    Indeed making the most is not the only metric, or the most important metric of success. But it would be wrong to say success is not making the most.

    Lest we forget, Apple also plays the numbers game, or rather did play it, when it makes sense. They repeatedly cite their superior market share in tablets, # of the apps available, # of downloads, amount of app-derived revenue paid out to developers. Not that long ago, they too reported activation numbers regularly, and openly questioned Android activation numbers. That stopped when the evidence wasn't in their favor. So, IMO, it's a bit hollow to poo-poo the numbers game.

    70% of mobile profits = success.
    # apps, downloads, $ for developers, whatever, wasn't defining success. It just provided metrics that back the scope and activity of the iOS ecosystem.
    godrifle wrote: »
    Success is selling to your capacity, at the margin you deem sustainable by your clientele. When those numbers start to slip, you're not meeting the ideological perceptions of your client. Keep blabbing, Mr. Cook. The market judges your performance, and thus-far yours sucks. I realize it doesn't matter to you, because you've been compensated for the performance of your predecessors.

    Apple's board of directors should answer to to that.

    Most profitable calendar year in human history? Check
    One of the most profitable qtrs in human history? Check
    Record sales of iDevices? Check
    Selling every iDevice they can make? Check

    It is obviously a failed company. /s
  • Reply 149 of 201
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


    I did, but you don't understand Apple or acknowledge that they are $140 Billion solvent and one of the largest companies in the world because they do what they do. 


     


    [...]


     


    Evolution LMAO again! 



     


    Then perhaps you have read this in your studies:


     


    "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

  • Reply 150 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


     


    Then perhaps you have read this in your studies:


     


    "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."



     


    Now that makes more sense. 


     


    So how about the pride of people thinking they know better how to run Apple then those doing a very good job of running Apple? 

  • Reply 151 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    The difference between the PC wars and now is that Apple wasn't making money back then. Apple can say they had 70% of the mobile profits.

    70% of mobile profits = success.

    # apps, downloads, $ for developers, whatever, wasn't defining success. It just provided metrics that back the scope and activity of the iOS ecosystem.

    Most profitable calendar year in human history? Check

    One of the most profitable qtrs in human history? Check

    Record sales of iDevices? Check

    Selling every iDevice they can make? Check



    It is obviously a failed company. /s


     


    Using Facts instead of FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) CHECK! :) 

  • Reply 152 of 201
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    I'm sorry, I must not understand what Pay As You Go is vs. a Plan. 

    Pay As You Go == You buy X minutes and that is what you get. Once the minutes are done, you buy more or you don't have a phone. No monthly anything. 

    You stated "<span style="background-color:rgb(241,241,241);">I switched to a plan for $40 a month</span>
    " which is a plan, so your point is lost right from the start. 

    Second, you stated that you purchased a phone for $400. Again, you can do that on any carrier if you are willing to pay the price of the phone. 

    Brings me to my last point. Apple is a luxury brand that cost more than other phones. If you are not wanting to pay that, no worry, buy a cheaper phone, use a cheaper plan and SAVE money! 

    And just in case you missed it; Apple is not in the business of saving you money, or going after the price conscience consumer. 

    And yes, I pay $100/month for ATT and once a carrier has the same coverage and features (being able to talk and surf at the same time) I will consider switching. 

    P.S.

    I've always said an iPhone that was internet WiFi only and thus saving on a data plan would be ideal. 

    FYI 'a Plan' as you put it are called 'post paid'. Good luck getting a iPhone with no data plan. Don't buy a Ferrari and then complain about the price of premium gasoline.
  • Reply 153 of 201
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


     


    Then perhaps you have read this in your studies:


     


    "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."



     


    Now that makes more sense. 


     


    So how about the pride of people thinking they know better how to run Apple then those doing a very good job of running Apple? 



    I wasn't referring to Apple but to you and your projected persona. You need to reexamine your own self awareness and stop basing the quality of your existence on some perceived value in ownership of a gadget. If you think an Apple product is a luxury item, then you know nothing about luxury. An iPhone, after all, is just a phone with a few extra features.


     


    Apple will probably do something similar to what I predict in order to address the emerging market. My hope is that they do it in time to mitigate the unprecedented expansion of Android in the developing world.

  • Reply 154 of 201
    jony0jony0 Posts: 269member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post



    For those who believe that marketshare is worthless, I'll say that it's not.


     


    And I'll say that it is. Marketshare is worthless without profits. Just follow the money.


     


    The reason why people are still sticking to this old meme is because of the Mac vs Windows events of the 90s, where many developers (cough Adobe cough) shifted towards Windows because of marketshare but that's wrong. Developers don't go where the users are, they go where the money is, plain and simple. Most Windows customers were businesses with money to buy programs, therefore marketshare has a direct corellation so in this instance there's a direct one to one correlation between marketshare and profit share, and that's where the confusion of most people lie. This is not the case in mobile, where Android has 3 times the marketshare yet developers make 4 times the money on iOS and for less effort as well. Android users don't want to pay for apps, iOS users do, that is well known. You can also pirate apps on Android but not on iOS ( jailbroken devices excluded of course ). Follow the money.


     



    As the market shifts, so do developers. This isn't speculation, it's fact.


     


    You got that right, but not because of units or marketshare, it's not, it's profits, again and always. And that's not my opinion, that's fact.

  • Reply 155 of 201


    If you were in Apple's position would you continue targeting users with more disposable income to buy higher end devices, apps and other investments in your ecosystem - OR - would you target the unwashed masses who don't really have the cash to powerfully support your developers or your services?


     


    Lets face it folks Apple has the best strategy - build strong bonds with the top economic section of the populace who you can leverage with their buy in for ongoing business.  Apple = Quality (minus a few hiccups)


     


    Then there is the iPad which allowed others to shift from cheap computers to iPads.  The next device might utilize SIRI and the small screen area of the iPhone on a new class of multi-configurable and wearable devices.  Just wait  Tim is being coy of course.  Then many of those people who might have bought a cheap smart phone - will switch to a multi-configurable device.

  • Reply 156 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I wasn't referring to Apple but to you and your projected persona. You need to reexamine your own self awareness and stop basing the quality of your existence on some perceived value in ownership of a gadget. If you think an Apple product is a luxury item, then you know nothing about luxury. An iPhone, after all, is just a phone with a few extra features.


     


    Apple will probably do something similar to what I predict in order to address the emerging market. My hope is that they do it in time to mitigate the unprecedented expansion of Android in the developing world.



     


     


    LOL What? Quality of my existence in a gadget? How in the world did you get that from any of my posts? The quality of my existence is in the Lord Jesus ONLY. 


     


    For the genre, Apple products are luxury as no one needs a phone at that price or a music player at that price. Are Apple products extravagant living, probably not by most standards. Would calling them a boutique brand be better? 

  • Reply 157 of 201

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    None of this makes much sense but your underlying comment is consistently that Apple is doing it wrong despite leading in every HW category they are in. That makes your complaints null and void right there but you also contradict yourself with complaint about Fusion Drive not being standard and keeping the ODD and then later talking about dropping the price so they can do an upsell.


     


    The underlying theme of the highlighted phrases would seem to indicate that he (or she) thinks Apple is too greedy and charging too much, and losing the race to build embarrassingly large handsets.

  • Reply 158 of 201


    Lemons sure are sour fruit, no?

  • Reply 159 of 201
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post





     The quality of my existence is in the Lord Jesus ONLY. 




    Perhaps Apple evangelism is not your strong suit. Stick to what you know.

  • Reply 160 of 201
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    I would think the best way to compare the current models with the older ones that were "cheaper" is what Apple's margins were then vs now. I have no idea what the answer is, but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone have data on this?


    Forget the profit margin. Today's entry level iMac starts at $1299.00.

    Exactly the same price as the original Bondi Blue iMac.


    Lemon not only lives in another country, but he has created his own little planet. :\
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