1. When Apple are still making so much profit, why else would it seemingly be knocked & held lower than it was before compared to other shares that flying at the moment, compared to how the other co's are doing?
2. New mass manufacturing processes can have teething problems & some be harder to get right than others, compared to building 1 or 2 prototypes in labs, but once the problems are sorted...
3. Current financial climates? Done to help boost sales of more expensive models during these trying times? Not to mention things get cheaper to make once they are produced more & more, partly as a result of point 2?
And no, I have no shares in AAPL, unfortunately. Just saying why things could be.
1. There are many companies that are still making profit in a down economy. We can ask ourselves many questions when it comes to rates or stocks being held lower. If we calculated the inflation rate using the same calculations when Jimmy Carter was President the inflation rate would be actually accurate. Interest rates are being held artificially low, job numbers are a joke seeing the simply stop counting people that have given up looking for work. People act as if AAPL is the only thing on earth being manipulated. Oil futures is another great example of manipulation.
2. While I agree, Apple simply can't announce something and then not have the produce ready for months. Few weeks maybe but not months even more so when they pull the current product off the market.
3. The price point was always bad for the 13" rMBP. In 2012 with the big launch of the Mini everyone was saying that price point was too high. I never agreed with that comment and the sales have proven the price point was fine. When you look at what you get in the 13 rMBP it could never support a 1699.00 price point. The simple fact that the "Pro" version is for power uses what power user can get away with 128gb of storage and an HD 4000 GPU that doesn't truly have the bandwidth to support the pixels in the rMBP. That is just simple math. Sluggish performance with this model has been widely reported.
This was just simply a poor first gen attempt which is the reason for the price drop. No other Apple products have dropped in price. Now with Intel Haswell coming out this year the 13 rMBP should see better battery life and increased GPU performance with the HD 4600. The increased GPU performance being the key issue with a retina display.
Didn't your English teacher teach you the proper use of shit?
"Could care less" has been used for over 3 decades in common use. Get over it. The English language is not based on rules set by grammarians and grammar nazis, but by how it's used by the average writers and speakers of the language.
Sure. Apple has NEVER introduced new hardware without having a new version of the software available at launch. /s
Actually, the important thing to note is the connection between iOS and iPhone. The reality is that no, there hasn't been an iOS release without corresponding new iPhone hardware. iPads, iPods and iPads, yes... there have been releases without a new iOS, but not a new iPhone.
Instead of an elegant product launch, 2012 marked the most ineffective, clumsy, and amateurish product "dump" in Apple's history! Apple's pipeline has been on Queer Street ever since -- too many Retina Macs, not enough iMacs, not enough iPhone's, took many iPad's. If Cook & Co. blow the next product launch or can't fill the pipeline it would be the opportune time for Apple to start searching for a CEO who knows how to deliver products and can satisfy AAPL investors.
I didn't miss any point. .... The issue Apple has faced are no worse than they always have with both software and hardware being delayed.....
I am afraid that you did miss his point altogether.
He was primarily arguing that the competitive situation today in phones is different (and phones do account for 50% of Apple's revenues). As a result, delays will have more severe negative impacts now than in the past.
You may disagree with that argument, but your response does not remotely say why.
Instead of an elegant product launch, 2012 marked the most ineffective, clumsy, and amateurish product "dump" in Apple's history! Apple's pipeline has been on Queer Street ever since -- too many Retina Macs, not enough iMacs, not enough iPhone's, took many iPad's. If Cook & Co. blow the next product launch or can't fill the pipeline it would be the opportune time for Apple to start searching for a CEO who knows how to deliver products and can satisfy AAPL investors.
Riiiight. As opposed to 2008 where there weren't enough iPhone 3Gs so AT&T had to turn away customers, the 17" MacBook pros were delayed, the MacBook Airs were delayed, the Apple TV "Take 2" software update was delayed, the Final Cut Server shipped more than a year late, Steve Jobs had to apologize for the poorly planned MobileMe launch, etc.? Yeah, sounds like a bang up year that was, right?
I am afraid that you did miss his point altogether.
He was primarily arguing that the competitive situation today in phones is different (and phones do account for 50% of Apple's revenues). As a result, delays will have more severe negative impacts now than in the past.
You may disagree with that argument, but your response does not remotely say why.
No, I got his point but it's wrong. If those delays were so costly now how were they able to pull out record quarters of both revenue and profit for the company?
"Could care less" has been used for over 3 decades in common use. Get over it. The English language is not based on rules set by grammarians and grammar nazis, but by how it's used by the average writers and speakers of the language.
Where did anyone criticize the use of "could care less"?
This sentence basically summarizes your lies. Why not just post it instead?
lol.
lol.
It's baffling that you think this is in any way the case.
Maybe if you stopped pretending that people want a larger display, you'd know the answer to that.
Could you maybe explain how this makes any sense whatsoever?
So you are buying the stock hand over fist because you think its a good value and Tim Cook can do no wrong?
We'll find out in a couple weeks if the analysts were correct that sales were slowing via the supply chain check and whether Tim looks like a moron by telling people not to rely on those checks. I'm guessing its the latter. I think he's out of touch.
I would like a larger display iPhone. I know many people that would. Just because you don't doesn't mean others wouldn't buy them. I will be shocked if Apple doesn't agree with me and release a larger screen next year.
Consensus estimates are above the guidance the company gave. Will they miss their own earnings three times in a row? Unlikely, but they will very likely miss consensus estimates this quarter and next. Tim is in a bad spot that Jobs played games and always lowballed so analysts haven't adjusted to the new reality and continue to think Apple will beat its own guidance.
I am amazed as the lack of basic finance knowledge. If you want to buy a widget business that costs $1 million and you put in your own money for half and borrow the other half, you have a capitalization that is 50% equity and 50% debt. Lets say you immediately take the company public, so the market cap is 500k and you have 500k of debt, Did the value of the business you bought for 1 million just drop to 500k because that is the market cap? Of course not, the value of the business is still $1 million., All companies choose to capitalize themselves differently. The only way to normalize things is if you look at enterprise value, which is mkt cap less net debt. That tells you what a business is worth by looking at capitalization on an apples-to-apples basis.
I am amazed as the lack of basic finance knowledge. If you want to buy a widget business that costs $1 million and you put in your own money for half and borrow the other half, you have a capitalization that is 50% equity and 50% debt. Lets say you immediately take the company public, so the market cap is 500k and you have 500k of debt, Did the value of the business you bought for 1 million just drop to 500k because that is the market cap? Of course not, the value of the business is still $1 million., All companies choose to capitalize themselves differently. The only way to normalize things is if you look at enterprise value, which is mkt cap less net debt. That tells you what a business is worth by looking at capitalization on an apples-to-apples basis.
You keep bringing up this metric but yet you've yet to explain why it's the one and only definitive metric of success. Why should anyone care more about "enterprise value" over things like record-high revenues, profits and non-existant debt? Also, you've only provided hand-waving for why we should accept your values of the EV over any other website that has other numbers. Your word is not a reason.
No, I got his point but it's wrong. If those delays were so costly now how were they able to pull out record quarters of both revenue and profit for the company?
The past is the past, keep living in it. The stock market is a future looking entity and it is saying record profits are a thing of the past. Who gives a crap about record revenue if your gross margins are getting squeezed such that non of it hits the bottom line. Take them for what they are worth, but analyst estimates are for negative earnings growth.
The past is the past, keep living in it. The stock market is a future looking entity and it is saying record profits are a thing of the past. Who gives a crap about record revenue if your gross margins are getting squeezed such that non of it hits the bottom line. Take them for what they are worth, but analyst estimates are for negative earnings growth.
Notice how I said "revenue and profit". Apple has never been more profitable than under Tim Cook. Your deflections fail to work.
As far as Apple's manufacturer showing a decline in revenues, they also make Amazon products as well as others. Perhaps the miss is from that source...
You keep bringing up this metric but yet you've yet to explain why it's the one and only definitive metric of success. Why should anyone care more about "enterprise value" over things like record-high revenues, profits and non-existant debt? Also, you've only provided hand-waving for why we should accept your values of the EV over any other website that has other numbers. Your word is not a reason.
Here is an idea. Use your brain. Get your calculator out, find a site that tells you Apple's market cap. Then look at their most recent 10Q or last press release and determine how much debt and cash they reported. Then get out your HP12C and take market cap, add debt, then subtract cash and tell me what you get. It might take you 3-5 minutes to do all of the above.
I didn't say it was the only metric of success, you are putting those words in my mouth. It is a metric and the most definitive metric to determine the value of a company. I said Apple had decreased in value under Tim Cook. It has. All while its competitors have doubled in value and the markets are at all-time highs.
I am afraid that you did miss his point altogether.
He was primarily arguing that the competitive situation today in phones is different (and phones do account for 50% of Apple's revenues). As a result, delays will have more severe negative impacts now than in the past.
You may disagree with that argument, but your response does not remotely say why.
YOU missed his point. He's primarily saying that Tim Cook is incompetent.
And he's confused in his argument, saying that Apple is becoming reactive, not proactive, in REACTING to the new competitive challenges.
Applelunatic is doing some heroic work here. Don't confuse him with misinterpretation.
Notice how I said "revenue and profit". Apple has never been more profitable than under Tim Cook. Your deflections fail to work.
Apple reported $13.06 billion in net income (profits) on $46 billion in revenue for the Dec '11 quarter. They reported $13.08 billion in revenue on $54.5 billion in revenue for the Dec. '12 quarter. An extra $8.5 billion in revenue resulted in an additional $20 million of profit. Yippee!
There may or may not be hardware issues delaying launch. But there most definitely are software issues. IOS7 is seriously behind schedule, as many developers know. Apple is scrambling to maje up time before WWDC. By now, there's no almost no pt launching any new hardware before IOS7 is ready.
I highly doubt that developers know jack about iOS 7 at this point. So maybe it is behind, maybe it isn't.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by TogetherWeStand
1. When Apple are still making so much profit, why else would it seemingly be knocked & held lower than it was before compared to other shares that flying at the moment, compared to how the other co's are doing?
2. New mass manufacturing processes can have teething problems & some be harder to get right than others, compared to building 1 or 2 prototypes in labs, but once the problems are sorted...
3. Current financial climates? Done to help boost sales of more expensive models during these trying times? Not to mention things get cheaper to make once they are produced more & more, partly as a result of point 2?
And no, I have no shares in AAPL, unfortunately. Just saying why things could be.
1. There are many companies that are still making profit in a down economy. We can ask ourselves many questions when it comes to rates or stocks being held lower. If we calculated the inflation rate using the same calculations when Jimmy Carter was President the inflation rate would be actually accurate. Interest rates are being held artificially low, job numbers are a joke seeing the simply stop counting people that have given up looking for work. People act as if AAPL is the only thing on earth being manipulated. Oil futures is another great example of manipulation.
2. While I agree, Apple simply can't announce something and then not have the produce ready for months. Few weeks maybe but not months even more so when they pull the current product off the market.
3. The price point was always bad for the 13" rMBP. In 2012 with the big launch of the Mini everyone was saying that price point was too high. I never agreed with that comment and the sales have proven the price point was fine. When you look at what you get in the 13 rMBP it could never support a 1699.00 price point. The simple fact that the "Pro" version is for power uses what power user can get away with 128gb of storage and an HD 4000 GPU that doesn't truly have the bandwidth to support the pixels in the rMBP. That is just simple math. Sluggish performance with this model has been widely reported.
This was just simply a poor first gen attempt which is the reason for the price drop. No other Apple products have dropped in price. Now with Intel Haswell coming out this year the 13 rMBP should see better battery life and increased GPU performance with the HD 4600. The increased GPU performance being the key issue with a retina display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
You can give a shit about something.
You can care less about something.
You can be scared shitless by something.
But you can't give a shit less about anything.
Didn't your English teacher teach you the proper use of shit?
"Could care less" has been used for over 3 decades in common use. Get over it. The English language is not based on rules set by grammarians and grammar nazis, but by how it's used by the average writers and speakers of the language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Yes, yahoo is wrong if it says Apple's EV is $357 billion. Do the damn math yourself, it is very easy calculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Sure. Apple has NEVER introduced new hardware without having a new version of the software available at launch. /s
Actually, the important thing to note is the connection between iOS and iPhone. The reality is that no, there hasn't been an iOS release without corresponding new iPhone hardware. iPads, iPods and iPads, yes... there have been releases without a new iOS, but not a new iPhone.
Instead of an elegant product launch, 2012 marked the most ineffective, clumsy, and amateurish product "dump" in Apple's history! Apple's pipeline has been on Queer Street ever since -- too many Retina Macs, not enough iMacs, not enough iPhone's, took many iPad's. If Cook & Co. blow the next product launch or can't fill the pipeline it would be the opportune time for Apple to start searching for a CEO who knows how to deliver products and can satisfy AAPL investors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
I didn't miss any point. .... The issue Apple has faced are no worse than they always have with both software and hardware being delayed.....
I am afraid that you did miss his point altogether.
He was primarily arguing that the competitive situation today in phones is different (and phones do account for 50% of Apple's revenues). As a result, delays will have more severe negative impacts now than in the past.
You may disagree with that argument, but your response does not remotely say why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web
Instead of an elegant product launch, 2012 marked the most ineffective, clumsy, and amateurish product "dump" in Apple's history! Apple's pipeline has been on Queer Street ever since -- too many Retina Macs, not enough iMacs, not enough iPhone's, took many iPad's. If Cook & Co. blow the next product launch or can't fill the pipeline it would be the opportune time for Apple to start searching for a CEO who knows how to deliver products and can satisfy AAPL investors.
Riiiight. As opposed to 2008 where there weren't enough iPhone 3Gs so AT&T had to turn away customers, the 17" MacBook pros were delayed, the MacBook Airs were delayed, the Apple TV "Take 2" software update was delayed, the Final Cut Server shipped more than a year late, Steve Jobs had to apologize for the poorly planned MobileMe launch, etc.? Yeah, sounds like a bang up year that was, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I am afraid that you did miss his point altogether.
He was primarily arguing that the competitive situation today in phones is different (and phones do account for 50% of Apple's revenues). As a result, delays will have more severe negative impacts now than in the past.
You may disagree with that argument, but your response does not remotely say why.
No, I got his point but it's wrong. If those delays were so costly now how were they able to pull out record quarters of both revenue and profit for the company?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
"Could care less" has been used for over 3 decades in common use. Get over it. The English language is not based on rules set by grammarians and grammar nazis, but by how it's used by the average writers and speakers of the language.
Where did anyone criticize the use of "could care less"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
This sentence basically summarizes your lies. Why not just post it instead?
lol.
lol.
It's baffling that you think this is in any way the case.
Maybe if you stopped pretending that people want a larger display, you'd know the answer to that.
Could you maybe explain how this makes any sense whatsoever?
So you are buying the stock hand over fist because you think its a good value and Tim Cook can do no wrong?
We'll find out in a couple weeks if the analysts were correct that sales were slowing via the supply chain check and whether Tim looks like a moron by telling people not to rely on those checks. I'm guessing its the latter. I think he's out of touch.
I would like a larger display iPhone. I know many people that would. Just because you don't doesn't mean others wouldn't buy them. I will be shocked if Apple doesn't agree with me and release a larger screen next year.
Consensus estimates are above the guidance the company gave. Will they miss their own earnings three times in a row? Unlikely, but they will very likely miss consensus estimates this quarter and next. Tim is in a bad spot that Jobs played games and always lowballed so analysts haven't adjusted to the new reality and continue to think Apple will beat its own guidance.
I am amazed as the lack of basic finance knowledge. If you want to buy a widget business that costs $1 million and you put in your own money for half and borrow the other half, you have a capitalization that is 50% equity and 50% debt. Lets say you immediately take the company public, so the market cap is 500k and you have 500k of debt, Did the value of the business you bought for 1 million just drop to 500k because that is the market cap? Of course not, the value of the business is still $1 million., All companies choose to capitalize themselves differently. The only way to normalize things is if you look at enterprise value, which is mkt cap less net debt. That tells you what a business is worth by looking at capitalization on an apples-to-apples basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Where did anyone criticize the use of "could care less"?
"Didn't your English teacher teach you the proper use of shit?"
You're right. That sounds like nothing but praise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
I am amazed as the lack of basic finance knowledge. If you want to buy a widget business that costs $1 million and you put in your own money for half and borrow the other half, you have a capitalization that is 50% equity and 50% debt. Lets say you immediately take the company public, so the market cap is 500k and you have 500k of debt, Did the value of the business you bought for 1 million just drop to 500k because that is the market cap? Of course not, the value of the business is still $1 million., All companies choose to capitalize themselves differently. The only way to normalize things is if you look at enterprise value, which is mkt cap less net debt. That tells you what a business is worth by looking at capitalization on an apples-to-apples basis.
You keep bringing up this metric but yet you've yet to explain why it's the one and only definitive metric of success. Why should anyone care more about "enterprise value" over things like record-high revenues, profits and non-existant debt? Also, you've only provided hand-waving for why we should accept your values of the EV over any other website that has other numbers. Your word is not a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
No, I got his point but it's wrong. If those delays were so costly now how were they able to pull out record quarters of both revenue and profit for the company?
The past is the past, keep living in it. The stock market is a future looking entity and it is saying record profits are a thing of the past. Who gives a crap about record revenue if your gross margins are getting squeezed such that non of it hits the bottom line. Take them for what they are worth, but analyst estimates are for negative earnings growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
The past is the past, keep living in it. The stock market is a future looking entity and it is saying record profits are a thing of the past. Who gives a crap about record revenue if your gross margins are getting squeezed such that non of it hits the bottom line. Take them for what they are worth, but analyst estimates are for negative earnings growth.
Notice how I said "revenue and profit". Apple has never been more profitable than under Tim Cook. Your deflections fail to work.
As far as Apple's manufacturer showing a decline in revenues, they also make Amazon products as well as others. Perhaps the miss is from that source...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
You keep bringing up this metric but yet you've yet to explain why it's the one and only definitive metric of success. Why should anyone care more about "enterprise value" over things like record-high revenues, profits and non-existant debt? Also, you've only provided hand-waving for why we should accept your values of the EV over any other website that has other numbers. Your word is not a reason.
Here is an idea. Use your brain. Get your calculator out, find a site that tells you Apple's market cap. Then look at their most recent 10Q or last press release and determine how much debt and cash they reported. Then get out your HP12C and take market cap, add debt, then subtract cash and tell me what you get. It might take you 3-5 minutes to do all of the above.
I didn't say it was the only metric of success, you are putting those words in my mouth. It is a metric and the most definitive metric to determine the value of a company. I said Apple had decreased in value under Tim Cook. It has. All while its competitors have doubled in value and the markets are at all-time highs.
YOU missed his point. He's primarily saying that Tim Cook is incompetent.
And he's confused in his argument, saying that Apple is becoming reactive, not proactive, in REACTING to the new competitive challenges.
Applelunatic is doing some heroic work here. Don't confuse him with misinterpretation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
How silly. Let's look at just some stories from the last couple of years under Steve's reign.
[Links to stories about delays and errors clipped]
Should I go on? I can post many more of these if you wanted. People like yourself seem to have next to zero historical perspective.
I'm not sure I get what your point is here... Apple screws up product launches all the time, so more delays are nothing to worry about?
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but if that IS the point, it's not terribly comforting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
Notice how I said "revenue and profit". Apple has never been more profitable than under Tim Cook. Your deflections fail to work.
Apple reported $13.06 billion in net income (profits) on $46 billion in revenue for the Dec '11 quarter. They reported $13.08 billion in revenue on $54.5 billion in revenue for the Dec. '12 quarter. An extra $8.5 billion in revenue resulted in an additional $20 million of profit. Yippee!
I highly doubt that developers know jack about iOS 7 at this point. So maybe it is behind, maybe it isn't.