No, but I think Tim and his crew may have different priorities than many smartphone buyers.
For example, one of the things they might have to sacrifice to get a larger screen is color accuracy. To Apple, that matters. To many buyers, it doesn't. People aren't using colorometers to calibrate their 4" movie viewing experience. Heck, they're not even comparing black levels when choosing a 50" TV. To that buyer, the ease-of-use provided by a larger screen may be a higher priority than color.
Same with pixel density. To my eyes, a super-sharp image that's too small to read is less valuable than a larger, easier to read display, even if it is sightly softer.
Then there's Messaging and email, both of which are easier on a larger keyboard. Is that more or less important than maximum brightness?
It's not my intention to initiate debate about any of the specific comparisons I've listed as examples, but to point out that the term "trade-offs" means making value judgements about the relative importance of several characteristics, and that some trade-offs matter more to me than they may to you and vice-versa. It's actually not at all unreasonable to expect that any given buyer may disagree with Apple's particular choices.
Spot on.
Apple management seems out of touch with reality. Do they really believe a significant number of their iPhone customers care about color-accuracy and gamut on a disposable device most of us keep for two years? Same goes for the much heralded aluminium case. Who cares? This is not a precious watch one keeps for ten years, it's a electronic gadget which is outdated in two years or less...
I still love my iPhone 5, but if it were not for being locked into Apple's "ecosystem", I'd seriously consider getting a Galaxy S4 for its large screen... so sad.
No shit. I realize it's a tablet, but the point is they made a device with a 9" display and they couldn't add more than .5" to the iPhone. Gimme a break.
Your post was absolutely retarded. tablet =/= phone.
No, just telling me to go away instead of typing an intelligent retort was retarded. Yes, I know a tablet is not a phone, but the iPad proves that the technology to make a device with a bigger display without compromising quality exists. Apparently that point went way over your head.
Shut up. I grow weary of keeping track of all the trolls we have here already. Either quit lying or quit posting. You were planning to do the latter anyway.
It's post number two ever. I have some irrational posts and typos but that's after a good deal of Lagavulin. I wonder what his/her/its excuse is.
OK I think Tim botched this answer a bit. Why not just say some people like them but we think a phone is a phone and a tablet is a tablet. I don't get what trade offs he's referring to.
Apple management seems out of touch with reality. Do they really believe a significant number of their iPhone customers care about color-accuracy and gamut on a disposable device most of us keep for two years? Same goes for the much heralded aluminium case. Who cares? This is not a precious watch one keeps for ten years, it's a electronic gadget which is outdated in two years or less...
I still love my iPhone 5, but if it were not for being locked into Apple's "ecosystem", I'd seriously consider getting a Galaxy S4 for its large screen... so sad.
I care about those things and that's what got me into the Apple "ecosystem." If they make a "one more thing" lesser quality but larger display, lower battery life, downgrade chassis, downgrade camera only for the masses I'd say OK and still buy the better quality. I bet The Street would love it until they saw the margins drop.
Apple management seems out of touch with reality. Do they really believe a significant number of their iPhone customers care about color-accuracy and gamut on a disposable device most of us keep for two years? Same goes for the much heralded aluminium case. Who cares? This is not a precious watch one keeps for ten years, it's a electronic gadget which is outdated in two years or less...
I still love my iPhone 5, but if it were not for being locked into Apple's "ecosystem", I'd seriously consider getting a Galaxy S4 for its large screen... so sad.
I guess, you were hibernating when those tiny scratches and imperfections on the iPhone 5 casing caused a huge uproar. Or, lengthy discussions on the screen color hues of iPhone 3 and 4.....
I am among those who cares about the color fidelity and I gladly pay premium for NOT being trapped into looking at a garbage screen for two years. Obviously, the phone is not for you and you'd rather enjoy owning a scratched plastic crap with a milky window-glass for a screen but don't ask Ferrari why they don't make Fiats.
I guess you missed the other articles where Cook said they are planning a $100b buy back of their stock over the next 30 mos.?
A stock buy back, especially of that magnitude, only further proves the point that Apple is on the defensive and trying to boost failing market capitalization. Instead of investing their large sums of cash into new technology that could help inflate stock prices through tech innovation, they are having to buy stock off the market to inflate prices. There have been several articles on this, here's one detailing what the circumstances surrounding Apple were back when the stock began to tumble:
Explain how it has anything to do with the quality of their products, which has only increased.
Shut up. I grow weary of keeping track of all the trolls we have here already. Either quit lying or quit posting. You were planning to do the latter anyway.
Many analysts and users would disagree with you that Apple has "never stopped being" the industry leader. I've seen TONS of articles over the last several months, like this one:
constantly talking about how Apple has stagnated and allowed companies like Samsung to catch up and even surpass them. You might want to believe, personally, that Apple is still commanding the market, but you would be foolish to think they haven't lost a substantial amount of grip they had on it.
And how does a nearly $300 Billion loss have anything to do with quality of products? Really? The market is losing faith in Apple, analysts and traders are selling on the company, and the reaction you are seeing via falling stock prices is a result of poor reception to Apple's technology strategy. Do you honestly think that if Apple was still producing the best, highest quality, and market leading technology that their stock would fall 42% in 7 months?
Thanks for the classy post, something I'd expect from a forum moderator. You really promote a sense of open discussion and thought around these parts. Or would you rather have me bury my face in my iPhone, get back in line and quit thinking about what this company that I've bought into for almost 4 years can and should do better? It's ok, Apple will keep plodding along, artificially boosting itself by spending its own money on buying back stock instead of going back to the drawing board and figuring out what made it so damn successful for 5 years that no company could touch it.
Quadra, hit him with your JD Power & Associates copy/paste post, if you please.
And how does a nearly $300 Billion loss have anything to do with quality of products? Really?
Maybe you can tell me what the market cap has to do with products first. Is Apple in the stocks business? Do they create stocks and sell them to other companies?
Do you honestly think that if Apple was still producing the best, highest quality, and market leading technology that their stock would fall 42% in 7 months?
Yes. Because they are. As all surveys and accolades show.
Why do you think the stock price has anything to do with anything? Does Amazon produce the "best, highest quality market leading products" because their stock was rising to ludicrous levels? Remember their P/E before they posted a quarterly loss?
Originally Posted by ChristophB
You lost me there, at the "A".
I got to 'analysts', myself. That's usually the killer.
It's clear to me that Apple badly underestimated the appeal of large smartphones and is struggling to come up with a compelling new product that won't look like a carbon copy of something HTC or Samsung already makes.
So, you imagine Apple is "struggling"…? I don't see them struggling at all. Rather, I see them moving along at their own pace, developing killer devices for the next gen…
If, and I think it's a stretch, they decide to release a larger screen 'phablet', it will be uniquely Apple regardless. Just as the iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, iMacs and almost everything else they produce is unique to their style and quality… If anything I think it'll be more like an iPad "Nano"… a 6" screen, perhaps with new 'telephony' capabilities supported (like 'facetime'), if not cellular phone capability alongside.
I've seen the larger screens on the current crop of phablet phones. They are NOT the same quality as Apple displays. Whatever you say, the higher quality screens cost more and draw more battery. You can't do a 'cheaper' Samsung "phablet" type phone at Samsung prices without cutting corners on quality... display included.
Look at an iPhone and any Galaxy phone side by side. Compare color, saturation, pixel density, etc… ALSO compare refresh rates and rendering smoothness (how well it holds up during scrolling for example). If you're honest, there will be no dispute that the iPhone display is top flight.
I think what Cook is saying is that they won't compromise the quality or the experience to release a bigger, cheaper phone. I'm glad for them holding that line.
I care about those things and that's what got me into the Apple "ecosystem." If they make a "one more thing" lesser quality but larger display, lower battery life, downgrade chassis, downgrade camera only for the masses I'd say OK and still buy the better quality. I bet The Street would love it until they saw the margins drop.
Indeed, Apple should make two or more models of iPhone, like all the other vendors do.
It's a massive mistake to not increase display size. Apple is being killed in Asia by not having larger screens. EVERYONE is changing to Samsung. I wish the American based execs would come to Hong Kong and walk down the street.
No they are NOT. I have walked those HK streets and your representation is simply not true. Yes, yes, Samsung budget phablets are indeed selling pretty well. But still FAR less than Apple's iPhones.
I know 20 or so "executive class" people in HK and SGP. 6 of them tried Samsung phones, 3 thought they were passable and kept them around, but STILL use their iPhones for most things. The other 3 gave the phablets to their kids, sticking with iPhone full stop. Sorry, that's not exactly a market-killing mandate for Samsung.
OK, that isn't "everyone", I know… any more than your "everyone" is, I guess, eh?
I think it'd be a massive mistake for Apple to listen to people like you suggesting Apple's product roadmap ought to be based on what people like you think it should be, for the least scientific of all possible reasons...
How about this? Let's see what Apple does with their product roadmap later this year? Some will love it, some will hate it, others will laud them, others will tell them what a HUGE mistake they're making, and some will even declare Apple doomed…
In the end, I'll probably "get" why they went that way, may very well embrace the notion, and end up with yet another iteration of some mobile device or another from Apple… Because in the end, in practice their products are always head and shoulders above my expectations … I thought I needed USB and SD cards. Turns out I don't. Me and a few hundred million other people a lot like me, most extremely satisfied with their choice… can't say that about Samsung customers. Go figure.
So… I think I'll trust Apple to get it right. Can't wait to see what's coming next!
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
No, but I think Tim and his crew may have different priorities than many smartphone buyers.
For example, one of the things they might have to sacrifice to get a larger screen is color accuracy. To Apple, that matters. To many buyers, it doesn't. People aren't using colorometers to calibrate their 4" movie viewing experience. Heck, they're not even comparing black levels when choosing a 50" TV. To that buyer, the ease-of-use provided by a larger screen may be a higher priority than color.
Same with pixel density. To my eyes, a super-sharp image that's too small to read is less valuable than a larger, easier to read display, even if it is sightly softer.
Then there's Messaging and email, both of which are easier on a larger keyboard. Is that more or less important than maximum brightness?
It's not my intention to initiate debate about any of the specific comparisons I've listed as examples, but to point out that the term "trade-offs" means making value judgements about the relative importance of several characteristics, and that some trade-offs matter more to me than they may to you and vice-versa. It's actually not at all unreasonable to expect that any given buyer may disagree with Apple's particular choices.
Spot on.
Apple management seems out of touch with reality. Do they really believe a significant number of their iPhone customers care about color-accuracy and gamut on a disposable device most of us keep for two years? Same goes for the much heralded aluminium case. Who cares? This is not a precious watch one keeps for ten years, it's a electronic gadget which is outdated in two years or less...
I still love my iPhone 5, but if it were not for being locked into Apple's "ecosystem", I'd seriously consider getting a Galaxy S4 for its large screen... so sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Yep. A tablet sure is proof of a phone… anything¡
No shit. I realize it's a tablet, but the point is they made a device with a 9" display and they couldn't add more than .5" to the iPhone. Gimme a break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
You... you...
go away.
What the hell kind of reply is that?
Originally Posted by AppleFanPro
…the point is…
I really don't think you know what the point is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Really? The screens HTC uses are subpar?
millions, not dozens.
It is a great screen, but still loses on a few metrics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleFanPro
What the hell kind of reply is that?
Your post was absolutely retarded. tablet =/= phone. totally different situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Your post was absolutely retarded. tablet =/= phone.
No, just telling me to go away instead of typing an intelligent retort was retarded. Yes, I know a tablet is not a phone, but the iPad proves that the technology to make a device with a bigger display without compromising quality exists. Apparently that point went way over your head.
It's post number two ever. I have some irrational posts and typos but that's after a good deal of Lagavulin. I wonder what his/her/its excuse is.
Dozens what? You never make sense. And what metrics would that be?
I care about those things and that's what got me into the Apple "ecosystem." If they make a "one more thing" lesser quality but larger display, lower battery life, downgrade chassis, downgrade camera only for the masses I'd say OK and still buy the better quality. I bet The Street would love it until they saw the margins drop.
I guess, you were hibernating when those tiny scratches and imperfections on the iPhone 5 casing caused a huge uproar. Or, lengthy discussions on the screen color hues of iPhone 3 and 4.....
I am among those who cares about the color fidelity and I gladly pay premium for NOT being trapped into looking at a garbage screen for two years. Obviously, the phone is not for you and you'd rather enjoy owning a scratched plastic crap with a milky window-glass for a screen but don't ask Ferrari why they don't make Fiats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
I guess you missed the other articles where Cook said they are planning a $100b buy back of their stock over the next 30 mos.?
A stock buy back, especially of that magnitude, only further proves the point that Apple is on the defensive and trying to boost failing market capitalization. Instead of investing their large sums of cash into new technology that could help inflate stock prices through tech innovation, they are having to buy stock off the market to inflate prices. There have been several articles on this, here's one detailing what the circumstances surrounding Apple were back when the stock began to tumble:
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21570751-worlds-most-valuable-firm-may-be-past-its-prime-has-apple-peaked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Except they never stopped being. So stop lying.
Explain how it has anything to do with the quality of their products, which has only increased.
Shut up. I grow weary of keeping track of all the trolls we have here already. Either quit lying or quit posting. You were planning to do the latter anyway.
Many analysts and users would disagree with you that Apple has "never stopped being" the industry leader. I've seen TONS of articles over the last several months, like this one:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnshaughnessy/2013/04/12/these-3-game-changers-define-the-apple-vs-samsung-battle/
constantly talking about how Apple has stagnated and allowed companies like Samsung to catch up and even surpass them. You might want to believe, personally, that Apple is still commanding the market, but you would be foolish to think they haven't lost a substantial amount of grip they had on it.
And how does a nearly $300 Billion loss have anything to do with quality of products? Really? The market is losing faith in Apple, analysts and traders are selling on the company, and the reaction you are seeing via falling stock prices is a result of poor reception to Apple's technology strategy. Do you honestly think that if Apple was still producing the best, highest quality, and market leading technology that their stock would fall 42% in 7 months?
Thanks for the classy post, something I'd expect from a forum moderator. You really promote a sense of open discussion and thought around these parts. Or would you rather have me bury my face in my iPhone, get back in line and quit thinking about what this company that I've bought into for almost 4 years can and should do better? It's ok, Apple will keep plodding along, artificially boosting itself by spending its own money on buying back stock instead of going back to the drawing board and figuring out what made it so damn successful for 5 years that no company could touch it.
You lost me there, at the "A". Did you not say you we're gone? Reads like TS's prophecy was spot on.
Originally Posted by HeyDude
Many analysts…
Who gives a frick? More customers say otherwise.
Quadra, hit him with your JD Power & Associates copy/paste post, if you please.
And how does a nearly $300 Billion loss have anything to do with quality of products? Really?
Maybe you can tell me what the market cap has to do with products first. Is Apple in the stocks business? Do they create stocks and sell them to other companies?
Do you honestly think that if Apple was still producing the best, highest quality, and market leading technology that their stock would fall 42% in 7 months?
Yes. Because they are. As all surveys and accolades show.
Why do you think the stock price has anything to do with anything? Does Amazon produce the "best, highest quality market leading products" because their stock was rising to ludicrous levels? Remember their P/E before they posted a quarterly loss?
Originally Posted by ChristophB
You lost me there, at the "A".
I got to 'analysts', myself.
[/quote
HeyDude,
Just leave. Your drivel doesn't make any sense. There are plenty of other sites where you can post it.
Analsyt is to CEO as movie critic is to Hitchcock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
It's clear to me that Apple badly underestimated the appeal of large smartphones and is struggling to come up with a compelling new product that won't look like a carbon copy of something HTC or Samsung already makes.
So, you imagine Apple is "struggling"…? I don't see them struggling at all. Rather, I see them moving along at their own pace, developing killer devices for the next gen…
If, and I think it's a stretch, they decide to release a larger screen 'phablet', it will be uniquely Apple regardless. Just as the iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, iMacs and almost everything else they produce is unique to their style and quality… If anything I think it'll be more like an iPad "Nano"… a 6" screen, perhaps with new 'telephony' capabilities supported (like 'facetime'), if not cellular phone capability alongside.
I've seen the larger screens on the current crop of phablet phones. They are NOT the same quality as Apple displays. Whatever you say, the higher quality screens cost more and draw more battery. You can't do a 'cheaper' Samsung "phablet" type phone at Samsung prices without cutting corners on quality... display included.
Look at an iPhone and any Galaxy phone side by side. Compare color, saturation, pixel density, etc… ALSO compare refresh rates and rendering smoothness (how well it holds up during scrolling for example). If you're honest, there will be no dispute that the iPhone display is top flight.
I think what Cook is saying is that they won't compromise the quality or the experience to release a bigger, cheaper phone. I'm glad for them holding that line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB
I care about those things and that's what got me into the Apple "ecosystem." If they make a "one more thing" lesser quality but larger display, lower battery life, downgrade chassis, downgrade camera only for the masses I'd say OK and still buy the better quality. I bet The Street would love it until they saw the margins drop.
Indeed, Apple should make two or more models of iPhone, like all the other vendors do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lerxt
It's a massive mistake to not increase display size. Apple is being killed in Asia by not having larger screens. EVERYONE is changing to Samsung. I wish the American based execs would come to Hong Kong and walk down the street.
No they are NOT. I have walked those HK streets and your representation is simply not true. Yes, yes, Samsung budget phablets are indeed selling pretty well. But still FAR less than Apple's iPhones.
I know 20 or so "executive class" people in HK and SGP. 6 of them tried Samsung phones, 3 thought they were passable and kept them around, but STILL use their iPhones for most things. The other 3 gave the phablets to their kids, sticking with iPhone full stop. Sorry, that's not exactly a market-killing mandate for Samsung.
OK, that isn't "everyone", I know… any more than your "everyone" is, I guess, eh?
I think it'd be a massive mistake for Apple to listen to people like you suggesting Apple's product roadmap ought to be based on what people like you think it should be, for the least scientific of all possible reasons...
How about this? Let's see what Apple does with their product roadmap later this year? Some will love it, some will hate it, others will laud them, others will tell them what a HUGE mistake they're making, and some will even declare Apple doomed…
In the end, I'll probably "get" why they went that way, may very well embrace the notion, and end up with yet another iteration of some mobile device or another from Apple… Because in the end, in practice their products are always head and shoulders above my expectations … I thought I needed USB and SD cards. Turns out I don't. Me and a few hundred million other people a lot like me, most extremely satisfied with their choice… can't say that about Samsung customers. Go figure.
So… I think I'll trust Apple to get it right. Can't wait to see what's coming next!