Apple can't track all sales. They don't know what is all sold everywhere. They don't have access to other company's inventories. There was an article I read last night that stated that Apple's numbers are "shipped", because they can only track sales through their stores.
"sold" is a myth.
P
Every iOS device is activated through iTunes, after sale, before use...
Every iOS device is activated through iTunes, after sale, before use...
every,
single,
one.
Why wouldn't Apple report those figures then instead of "channel inventory"? Wouldn't activations be a more transparent figure if all you're interested in is how many smartphones or tablets were sold to an end-user?
I don't doubt at all that Apple would know how many units they had shipped, as well they should! I don't believe Apple "knows" the actual product inventory numbers from hundreds of resellers with nearly the same degree of certainly.
Walk into an Apple store, with an iOS device and they can tell the day it was activated, hence no need for receipts.
With a 100% degree of certainty.
I don't expect that you remember all the gloating from the Android crowd when iOS devices had to be plugged into iTunes before use.
Walk into an Apple store, with an iOS device and they can tell the day it was activated, hence no need for receipts.
With a 100% degree of certainty.
I don't expect that you remember all the gloating from the Android crowd when iOS devices had to be plugged into iTunes before use.
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
Huh? Are you finally coming around to shipped=sold as a general rule?
Anyway so as not to forget about the question, why do you think Apple isn't announcing activations if it's a more accurate accounting of the number of iDevices sold to an end-user as you say it is?
Wait, the entire world votes for free food but some people are still buying premium food and beverages (like Coke). The entire world drinks a lot of water for free. Hey, GREAT!
Wine for the rest of us ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Coke is a premium food? You flatter them
Actually Coke is premium in Cuba. Its more expensive than rhum there.
Apple can't track all sales. They don't know what is all sold everywhere. They don't have access to other company's inventories. There was an article I read last night that stated that Apple's numbers are "shipped", because they can only track sales through their stores.
"sold" is a myth.
P
I was an Apple dealer 1978-1989...
There was quite a rigid contractual agreement between Apple and the dealer concerning pricing, reselling, returns and reporting.
It was a fairly automated reporting process for the day, and I suspect that the reporting requirement has gotten more detailed and more frequent.
Suffice it to say, that Apple resellers were required to report all sales of Apple products to Apple on a weekly basis.
Special promotions often required reporting on a daily basis.
This information is used by Apple to measure sell-through to end-users * and forecast inventory, distribution and manufacturing requirements.
* Apple resellers are contractually prevented from heavily discounting Apple's MSRP or reselling Apple product to other resellers.
So, yes, I suspect that Apple knows, on a weekly basis, exactly what is in the channel and what is sold through to end users.
How else to include Microsoft in a discussion on the mobile market if laptops aren't included? <img alt="1biggrin.gif" id="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1368190971265_1267" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/1biggrin.gif" style="line-height:1.231;" name="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1368190971265_1267">
Apple can't track all sales. They don't know what is all sold everywhere. They don't have access to other company's inventories. There was an article I read last night that stated that Apple's numbers are "shipped", because they can only track sales through their stores.
"sold" is a myth.
P
Yes but good luck getting people to get that here. Apples numbers are shipped not sell through, although you get the sell through in the conference call.
Yes. Android sales are estimates but even if those estimates were 10% off in unit shipments android is still way ahead.
As I posted in another post: Apple has channel inventory numbers by store at least on a weekly basis (the dealers are required to report this). So Apple knows, for its purposes what is going on in the channel and each individual reseller location.
When Apple reports its quarterly numbers, it gives shipments (to the channel) for that quarter and channel inventory status at the end of the quarter (by product: Mac, iPhone, iPad, etc.). It is a simple calculation to use the prior quarter numbers to determine sell through, for the quarter, to end users.
Apple competitors do not report channel inventory (and sometimes, not even shipments).
As I posted in another post: Apple has channel inventory numbers by store at least on a weekly basis (the dealers are required to report this). So Apple knows, for its purposes what is going on in the channel and each individual reseller location.
When Apple reports its quarterly numbers, it gives shipments (to the channel) for that quarter and channel inventory status at the end of the quarter (by product: Mac, iPhone, iPad, etc.). It is a simple calculation to use the prior quarter numbers to determine sell through, for the quarter, to end users.
Apple competitors do not report channel inventory (and sometimes, not even shipments).
Dick, in truth all you apparently know is what Apple required of you 25 years ago. It may still be true, I dunno. But I had asked earlier if Apple has ever disclosed how they're determining channel inventory and the lack of responses would seem to indicate they have not.
I don't believe Apple themselves has ever explained how they determine channel inventory numbers. If they have perhaps someone could link it. It's almost assuredly an estimate only, tho an educated one, as I don't believe a physical count from hundreds of worldwide retail outlets would be a reasonable expectation.
I used to work in Apple Cork where they knew exactly down to the unit how many were shipped per quarter from Cork. Foxconn sends devices to Apple which distributes them to channel or direct online sales which can be tracked. So that bit is true - Apples figures are near enough exact, or exact.
They are mostly sales to Channel though , as well as sales to online consumers.
Apple resellers are contractually required to report sales to end users and returns from end users. When I was in the business (ca 1989) the reporting was on a weekly basis by SKU. Likely, it is fully-automated, and reported on a daily basis, today.
l
Apple doesn't have a lot of SKUs so it is not too many products to track for even a small reseller.
Apple knows what it shipped to each reseller, so it can easily calculate reseller channel inventory == prior inventory - sales to end users - returns from end users.
Special arrangements are made if a reseller has too much inventory and wants to return unsold stock to Apple.
Apple resellers are contractually prevented from heavy discounts and selling to other resellers...
Huh? Are you finally coming around to shipped=sold as a general rule?
Anyway so as not to forget about the question, why do you think Apple isn't announcing activations if it's a more accurate accounting of the number of iDevices sold to an end-user as you say it is?
Dick, in truth all you apparently know is what Apple required of you 25 years ago. It may still be true, I dunno. But I had asked earlier if Apple has ever disclosed how they're determining channel inventory and the lack of responses would seem to indicate they have not.
It could be activations. Or the increases/decreases in channel inventory from last quarter etc.
They can work it out and give specific numbers for both, although shipped to channel is the headline ( because its always > sell through).
In the last conference quarter Tim C said that while shipments of the iPhone were up 6.7% yoy the sell through was up 14%. This is where channel sales can affect Apple, nobody really reads the Q&A except deeply involved analysts. And last year they stuffed the channel as they hasn't yet met demand equilibrium due to a later release in China of the 4S compared to the 5 , this year ( equilibrium is something you can't estimate until you hit it ) - so they were stuffing the channel. Clearly they then quickly hit demand supply eq.
Comments
I don't understand why we have analysts who analyze meaningless numbers. Some people prefer Fords, others BMWs. Android will always be a Ford.
And water is free? Really?
Android = do no evil Google and its bff do lots of evil Samsung? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/tax-evasion-bribery-and-pricefixing-how-samsung-became-the-giant-that-ate-korea-8510588.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher
Apple can't track all sales. They don't know what is all sold everywhere. They don't have access to other company's inventories. There was an article I read last night that stated that Apple's numbers are "shipped", because they can only track sales through their stores.
"sold" is a myth.
P
Every iOS device is activated through iTunes, after sale, before use...
every,
single,
one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Every iOS device is activated through iTunes, after sale, before use...
every,
single,
one.
Why wouldn't Apple report those figures then instead of "channel inventory"? Wouldn't activations be a more transparent figure if all you're interested in is how many smartphones or tablets were sold to an end-user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I don't doubt at all that Apple would know how many units they had shipped, as well they should! I don't believe Apple "knows" the actual product inventory numbers from hundreds of resellers with nearly the same degree of certainly.
Walk into an Apple store, with an iOS device and they can tell the day it was activated, hence no need for receipts.
With a 100% degree of certainty.
I don't expect that you remember all the gloating from the Android crowd when iOS devices had to be plugged into iTunes before use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Walk into an Apple store, with an iOS device and they can tell the day it was activated, hence no need for receipts.
With a 100% degree of certainty.
I don't expect that you remember all the gloating from the Android crowd when iOS devices had to be plugged into iTunes before use.
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
In other news, more Ford vehicles are sold world wide than the total number of Toyota Camry sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
Sold + channel.
Say it with me boys and girls: Shipped does NOT equal sold!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Sold + channel.
Huh? Are you finally coming around to shipped=sold as a general rule?
Anyway so as not to forget about the question, why do you think Apple isn't announcing activations if it's a more accurate accounting of the number of iDevices sold to an end-user as you say it is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarry de
Wait, the entire world votes for free food but some people are still buying premium food and beverages (like Coke). The entire world drinks a lot of water for free. Hey, GREAT!
Wine for the rest of us ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Coke is a premium food? You flatter them
Actually Coke is premium in Cuba. Its more expensive than rhum there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo
Say it with me boys and girls: Shipped does NOT equal sold!
Not specific enough, because "Shipped to retailer DOES equal sold for reporting purposes".
What you mean to say is, "Shipped to retailer does not equal sold to end user".
This applies to both Samsung and Apple.
I was an Apple dealer 1978-1989...
There was quite a rigid contractual agreement between Apple and the dealer concerning pricing, reselling, returns and reporting.
It was a fairly automated reporting process for the day, and I suspect that the reporting requirement has gotten more detailed and more frequent.
Suffice it to say, that Apple resellers were required to report all sales of Apple products to Apple on a weekly basis.
Special promotions often required reporting on a daily basis.
This information is used by Apple to measure sell-through to end-users * and forecast inventory, distribution and manufacturing requirements.
* Apple resellers are contractually prevented from heavily discounting Apple's MSRP or reselling Apple product to other resellers.
So, yes, I suspect that Apple knows, on a weekly basis, exactly what is in the channel and what is sold through to end users.
There's always "Others"
Sure it does. And it equals "activations." /S
As I posted in another post: Apple has channel inventory numbers by store at least on a weekly basis (the dealers are required to report this). So Apple knows, for its purposes what is going on in the channel and each individual reseller location.
When Apple reports its quarterly numbers, it gives shipments (to the channel) for that quarter and channel inventory status at the end of the quarter (by product: Mac, iPhone, iPad, etc.). It is a simple calculation to use the prior quarter numbers to determine sell through, for the quarter, to end users.
Apple competitors do not report channel inventory (and sometimes, not even shipments).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
As I posted in another post: Apple has channel inventory numbers by store at least on a weekly basis (the dealers are required to report this). So Apple knows, for its purposes what is going on in the channel and each individual reseller location.
When Apple reports its quarterly numbers, it gives shipments (to the channel) for that quarter and channel inventory status at the end of the quarter (by product: Mac, iPhone, iPad, etc.). It is a simple calculation to use the prior quarter numbers to determine sell through, for the quarter, to end users.
Apple competitors do not report channel inventory (and sometimes, not even shipments).
Dick, in truth all you apparently know is what Apple required of you 25 years ago. It may still be true, I dunno. But I had asked earlier if Apple has ever disclosed how they're determining channel inventory and the lack of responses would seem to indicate they have not.
Apple resellers are contractually required to report sales to end users and returns from end users. When I was in the business (ca 1989) the reporting was on a weekly basis by SKU. Likely, it is fully-automated, and reported on a daily basis, today.
l
Apple doesn't have a lot of SKUs so it is not too many products to track for even a small reseller.
Apple knows what it shipped to each reseller, so it can easily calculate reseller channel inventory == prior inventory - sales to end users - returns from end users.
Special arrangements are made if a reseller has too much inventory and wants to return unsold stock to Apple.
Apple resellers are contractually prevented from heavy discounts and selling to other resellers...
It could be activations. Or the increases/decreases in channel inventory from last quarter etc.
They can work it out and give specific numbers for both, although shipped to channel is the headline ( because its always > sell through).
In the last conference quarter Tim C said that while shipments of the iPhone were up 6.7% yoy the sell through was up 14%. This is where channel sales can affect Apple, nobody really reads the Q&A except deeply involved analysts. And last year they stuffed the channel as they hasn't yet met demand equilibrium due to a later release in China of the 4S compared to the 5 , this year ( equilibrium is something you can't estimate until you hit it ) - so they were stuffing the channel. Clearly they then quickly hit demand supply eq.
All this in in the conference calls.