I have been wondering how this "analyst" was defining "smart mobile devices" in their charts...
Someone here has been insisting it encompasses all "smart" mobile devices including laptops. I suppose that would have to be correct given the >300 million 'smart' devices sold in a single quarter.
If that IS the case, it skews the numbers away from Apple considerably, because we're now including a significant portion of the PC market in those "post PC" numbers. It's already well known that Apple doesn't own as much of the PC space.
So, although some might take it to look like bad news for Apple, to me it is notable that even when mixing in mobile PCs, a significant portion of annual PC sales, Apple has still captured almost a fifth of the world's "smart mobile" market share. One company. With a handful of products.
That alone should have the stock heading into record territory. And yet…...
I have been wondering how this "analyst" was defining "smart mobile devices" in their charts...
Someone here has been insisting it encompasses all "smart" mobile devices including laptops. I suppose that would have to be correct given the >300 million 'smart' devices sold in a single quarter.
If that IS the case, it skews the numbers away from Apple considerably, because we're now including a significant portion of the PC market in those "post PC" numbers. It's already well known that Apple doesn't own as much of the PC space.
So, although some might take it to look like bad news for Apple, to me it is notable that even when mixing in mobile PCs, a significant portion of annual PC sales, Apple has still captured almost a fifth of the world's "smart mobile" market share. One company. With a handful of products.
That alone should have the stock heading into record territory. And yet…...
From the second paragraph: "In a report on Thursday, Canalys estimated that "smart mobile device" shipments, comprised of smartphones, tablets and laptops, grew to 308.7 million units by the end of quarter one, a 37.4 percent increase from the year ago period."
Dick, in truth all you apparently know is what Apple required of you 25 years ago. It may still be true, I dunno. But I had asked earlier if Apple has ever disclosed how they're determining channel inventory and the lack of responses would seem to indicate they have not.
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
Because iDevices get resold and then reactivated. Apple doesn't make money of those sales (unless they sell the refurbs).
I don't believe Apple themselves has ever explained how they determine channel inventory numbers. If they have perhaps someone could link it. It's almost assuredly an estimate only, tho an educated one, as I don't believe a physical count from hundreds of worldwide retail outlets would be a reasonable expectation.
Stop the stupid FUD. Apple talks about these numbers at analyst conference calls and earnings calls. You simply don't fuss around with estimates like that, since you run into incredible legal and disclosure risks.
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
Since that is what companies across many industries do, i.e., it's standard reporting practice (if you chose to report it, since it's voluntary disclosure). It is a consistent way of reporting under FASB and SEC guidelines so that analysts, academics, data vendors, etc can report and analyze data across multiple industries.
For example, everyone had to report a "Net Income" whether they want to or not. They can't simply report their favorite industry- or firm-specific number. (If they do so, they have explicitly point out that those are 'proforma', non-FASB figures).
As to your point about whether Apple should report activations, it is laughable that you should be asking for more reporting from the one company that provides the most comprehensive data compared to peers. Apple's competitors don't even report something as basic as volumes shipped, and yet, you want Apple to report 'activations'?!
Huh? Are you finally coming around to shipped=sold as a general rule?
Anyway so as not to forget about the question, why do you think Apple isn't announcing activations if it's a more accurate accounting of the number of iDevices sold to an end-user as you say it is?
But I had asked earlier if Apple has ever disclosed how they're determining channel inventory and the lack of responses would seem to indicate they have not.
Why don't you write to their investor relations folks and ask?
Why don't you write to their investor relations folks and ask?
I'm surprised you or someone else here hadn't already done so, or that Apple hadn't spoken about it. I know there's been some concern about the methodology behind some of numbers that get tossed around in AI discussions.
I can certainly give it a try, tho I'm no investor. Anyone particular there that you're already familiar with and likely to answer?
Stop the stupid FUD. Apple talks about these numbers at analyst conference calls and earnings calls. You simply don't fuss around with estimates like that, since you run into incredible legal and disclosure risks.
Did you not know that!?
Then I would assume as you do they must only be estimates since Apple uses qualifiers like "about". As a knowledgeable Apple investor it seems odd that you wouldn't have ever wondered about it yourself and instead feel you need to be defensive when the question is asked.
Why don't you write to their investor relations folks and ask?
I'm surprised you or someone else here hadn't already done so, or that Apple hadn't spoken about it. I know there's been some concern about the methodology behind some of numbers that get tossed around in AI discussions.
I can certainly give it a try, tho I'm no investor. Anyone particular there that you're already familiar with and likely to answer?
If you're not interested in following up and learning more -- since your premise is that Apple must be lying or is lazy -- why do you even bother to bring it up?
If you're not interested in following up and learning more -- since your premise is that Apple must be lying or is lazy -- why do you even bother to bring it up?
Wait....
That's a strange comment. I asked if you had a person at Apple you could suggest and you come back with I'm not interested in finding the answer?
Your assumption about why I asked couldn't be more wrong. You'd apparently just be happier if I accused Apple of lying since that's what you wished to see. And in reality I was just as interested in Hill60's claim that Apple could tell us exactly how many iPhone or iPads had been purchased by an end-user during any quarter by relying on iTunes activations. If true then wouldn't that be the more appropriate metric to report for those interested in accurate sell-thru numbers?
If you're not interested in following up and learning more -- since your premise is that Apple must be lying or is lazy -- why do you even bother to bring it up?
Wait....
That's a strange comment. I asked if you had a person at Apple you could suggest and you come back with I'm not interested in finding the answer?
Your assumption about why I asked couldn't be more wrong. You'd apparently just be happier if I accused Apple of lying since that's what you wished to see.
Have you bothered to go into "Apple Investor Relations", and say, click on "Contact", and say, craft a question, and say, hit "Submit", and see what happens?
Are you saying it did it not even occur to you to do that?
I don't believe you're lazy (since you spend a lot of time trolling here with passive-aggressive posts), so it's logical to assume that you're just dissembling as usual.
And, while you're at it, care to respond to the three other posts I had made in response to your weird assertions?
Have you bothered to go into "Apple Investor Relations", and say, click on "Contact", and say, craft a question, and say, hit "Submit", and see what happens?
Done. I'll post the answer if/when I get one from them.
Android, designed to be given away for free. Mission in life: proliferate like crazy to ensure users have access to Google search.
Apple, designed to be sold at a profit. Mission in life: maximize Apple profits.
Outcome?
Android. Making little (direct) profit. Proliferating like crazy. Mission accomplished!
Apple. Making profit like crazy. Mission accomplished!
Saying 'Android is winning' because it is gaining more market share is a little moot. Its free. Of course it is going to proliferate well. Saying things like 'ZOMG Android is only winning because they are giving it away for free' is a little silly and redundant. Its like saying 'the only reason there are so many guinea pigs is because they breed a lot.'
Saying 'Apple is winning' because they are making more money than Android is also moot. Of course it is. Android is free.
Personally I like Google's strategy. Make money when a user uses Android. Make money when a user uses Apple.
Have you bothered to go into "Apple Investor Relations", and say, click on "Contact", and say, craft a question, and say, hit "Submit", and see what happens?
Done. I'll post the answer if/when I get one from them.
You will. Apple IR is fantastic about responding. It normally takes 36 - 48 hours. Factor in the weekend, in addition.
So, current ToysRUs flyer has three different 7 inch kid tablets from three different manufacturers that look Android based. Note they come with 4GB storage (and it looks like no SD slot)! And there is a 10 inch Archos tablet for $179 (also only with 4GB but with an SD slot). So, now I know why Android tablet share is rising (after all, any of these at ToysRUs are considered sold by the manufacturer).
Comments
I have been wondering how this "analyst" was defining "smart mobile devices" in their charts...
Someone here has been insisting it encompasses all "smart" mobile devices including laptops. I suppose that would have to be correct given the >300 million 'smart' devices sold in a single quarter.
If that IS the case, it skews the numbers away from Apple considerably, because we're now including a significant portion of the PC market in those "post PC" numbers. It's already well known that Apple doesn't own as much of the PC space.
So, although some might take it to look like bad news for Apple, to me it is notable that even when mixing in mobile PCs, a significant portion of annual PC sales, Apple has still captured almost a fifth of the world's "smart mobile" market share. One company. With a handful of products.
That alone should have the stock heading into record territory. And yet…...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
I have been wondering how this "analyst" was defining "smart mobile devices" in their charts...
Someone here has been insisting it encompasses all "smart" mobile devices including laptops. I suppose that would have to be correct given the >300 million 'smart' devices sold in a single quarter.
If that IS the case, it skews the numbers away from Apple considerably, because we're now including a significant portion of the PC market in those "post PC" numbers. It's already well known that Apple doesn't own as much of the PC space.
So, although some might take it to look like bad news for Apple, to me it is notable that even when mixing in mobile PCs, a significant portion of annual PC sales, Apple has still captured almost a fifth of the world's "smart mobile" market share. One company. With a handful of products.
That alone should have the stock heading into record territory. And yet…...
From the second paragraph: "In a report on Thursday, Canalys estimated that "smart mobile device" shipments, comprised of smartphones, tablets and laptops, grew to 308.7 million units by the end of quarter one, a 37.4 percent increase from the year ago period."
And I agree it's skews the results.
Probably a trade secret.
Because iDevices get resold and then reactivated. Apple doesn't make money of those sales (unless they sell the refurbs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I don't believe Apple themselves has ever explained how they determine channel inventory numbers. If they have perhaps someone could link it. It's almost assuredly an estimate only, tho an educated one, as I don't believe a physical count from hundreds of worldwide retail outlets would be a reasonable expectation.
Stop the stupid FUD. Apple talks about these numbers at analyst conference calls and earnings calls. You simply don't fuss around with estimates like that, since you run into incredible legal and disclosure risks.
Did you not know that!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Well if Apple knows exactly how many iPhones were truly sold to an end-user, i.e. activated, during any particular quarter why not just say what the numbers are? Why the shipped + channel inventory exercise?
Since that is what companies across many industries do, i.e., it's standard reporting practice (if you chose to report it, since it's voluntary disclosure). It is a consistent way of reporting under FASB and SEC guidelines so that analysts, academics, data vendors, etc can report and analyze data across multiple industries.
For example, everyone had to report a "Net Income" whether they want to or not. They can't simply report their favorite industry- or firm-specific number. (If they do so, they have explicitly point out that those are 'proforma', non-FASB figures).
As to your point about whether Apple should report activations, it is laughable that you should be asking for more reporting from the one company that provides the most comprehensive data compared to peers. Apple's competitors don't even report something as basic as volumes shipped, and yet, you want Apple to report 'activations'?!
LOL, you're a piece of work....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Sold + channel.
Huh? Are you finally coming around to shipped=sold as a general rule?
Anyway so as not to forget about the question, why do you think Apple isn't announcing activations if it's a more accurate accounting of the number of iDevices sold to an end-user as you say it is?
Um... that's not what hill60 said.
As to the second part of your post, see above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
But I had asked earlier if Apple has ever disclosed how they're determining channel inventory and the lack of responses would seem to indicate they have not.
Why don't you write to their investor relations folks and ask?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Why don't you write to their investor relations folks and ask?
I'm surprised you or someone else here hadn't already done so, or that Apple hadn't spoken about it. I know there's been some concern about the methodology behind some of numbers that get tossed around in AI discussions.
I can certainly give it a try, tho I'm no investor. Anyone particular there that you're already familiar with and likely to answer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Stop the stupid FUD. Apple talks about these numbers at analyst conference calls and earnings calls. You simply don't fuss around with estimates like that, since you run into incredible legal and disclosure risks.
Did you not know that!?
Then I would assume as you do they must only be estimates since Apple uses qualifiers like "about". As a knowledgeable Apple investor it seems odd that you wouldn't have ever wondered about it yourself and instead feel you need to be defensive when the question is asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Why don't you write to their investor relations folks and ask?
I'm surprised you or someone else here hadn't already done so, or that Apple hadn't spoken about it. I know there's been some concern about the methodology behind some of numbers that get tossed around in AI discussions.
I can certainly give it a try, tho I'm no investor. Anyone particular there that you're already familiar with and likely to answer?
If you're not interested in following up and learning more -- since your premise is that Apple must be lying or is lazy -- why do you even bother to bring it up?
Wait....
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
If you're not interested in following up and learning more -- since your premise is that Apple must be lying or is lazy -- why do you even bother to bring it up?
Wait....
That's a strange comment. I asked if you had a person at Apple you could suggest and you come back with I'm not interested in finding the answer?
Your assumption about why I asked couldn't be more wrong. You'd apparently just be happier if I accused Apple of lying since that's what you wished to see. And in reality I was just as interested in Hill60's claim that Apple could tell us exactly how many iPhone or iPads had been purchased by an end-user during any quarter by relying on iTunes activations. If true then wouldn't that be the more appropriate metric to report for those interested in accurate sell-thru numbers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
If you're not interested in following up and learning more -- since your premise is that Apple must be lying or is lazy -- why do you even bother to bring it up?
Wait....
That's a strange comment. I asked if you had a person at Apple you could suggest and you come back with I'm not interested in finding the answer?
Your assumption about why I asked couldn't be more wrong. You'd apparently just be happier if I accused Apple of lying since that's what you wished to see.
Have you bothered to go into "Apple Investor Relations", and say, click on "Contact", and say, craft a question, and say, hit "Submit", and see what happens?
Are you saying it did it not even occur to you to do that?
I don't believe you're lazy (since you spend a lot of time trolling here with passive-aggressive posts), so it's logical to assume that you're just dissembling as usual.
And, while you're at it, care to respond to the three other posts I had made in response to your weird assertions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
And, while you're at it, care to respond to the three other posts I had made in response to your weird assertions?
Which ones were those? I remember this one, but after I replied you never responded again.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157449/apple-grabs-no-5-spot-in-growing-chinese-smartphone-market#post_2324702
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Have you bothered to go into "Apple Investor Relations", and say, click on "Contact", and say, craft a question, and say, hit "Submit", and see what happens?
Done. I'll post the answer if/when I get one from them.
Android, designed to be given away for free. Mission in life: proliferate like crazy to ensure users have access to Google search.
Apple, designed to be sold at a profit. Mission in life: maximize Apple profits.
Outcome?
Android. Making little (direct) profit. Proliferating like crazy. Mission accomplished!
Apple. Making profit like crazy. Mission accomplished!
Saying 'Android is winning' because it is gaining more market share is a little moot. Its free. Of course it is going to proliferate well. Saying things like 'ZOMG Android is only winning because they are giving it away for free' is a little silly and redundant. Its like saying 'the only reason there are so many guinea pigs is because they breed a lot.'
Saying 'Apple is winning' because they are making more money than Android is also moot. Of course it is. Android is free.
Personally I like Google's strategy. Make money when a user uses Android. Make money when a user uses Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Which ones were those?
#64, #65, and #66 above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood
Saying 'Apple is winning' because they are making more money than Android is also moot. Of course it is. Android is free.
Personally I like Google's strategy. Make money when a user uses Android. Make money when a user uses Apple.
Like Microsoft's strategy, make money when a manufacturer pays their license for using Android?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Have you bothered to go into "Apple Investor Relations", and say, click on "Contact", and say, craft a question, and say, hit "Submit", and see what happens?
Done. I'll post the answer if/when I get one from them.
You will. Apple IR is fantastic about responding. It normally takes 36 - 48 hours. Factor in the weekend, in addition.